Pheu Thai And Democrat Parties Locked In Legal Combat

[webfact]

Main parties locked in legal combat

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Pheu Thai and Democrat parties have spun legal webs designed to destroy one another.

The ruling party seeks to have the main Opposition party disbanded, while the Democrats are trying to force an exit for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and Information and Communications Technology Minister Anudith Nakornthap.

Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said yesterday the party expects to file a petition with the Election Commission this week calling for the disbanding of the Democrat Party.

Prompong said the Democrats had erected billboards in the South rallying people to oppose charter change, a move that could be construed as an expression of hostility toward democratic rule, an offence punishable by party dissolution.

He said the Democrats tried to sow public confusion by fabricating charges that his ruling party aimed to topple the monarchy and grant amnesty for fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Pheu Thai expects the EC to launch the disbandment process via the Office of the Attorney General, which is tasked with activating a judicial review, he said.

The Democrats, meanwhile, have been building a dereliction-of-duty case against Yingluck and will launch the legal proceedings soon via the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), party deputy spokeswoman Mallika Boonmeetrakul said.

Mallika said the case will focus on Yingluck's failure to attempt to bring back Thaksin, who is a fugitive in five graft cases.

"Yingluck's leadership is unacceptable," she said, attacking the prime minister for refusing to clarify the stand on her brother Thaksin.

Last week, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung vowed to resolve all legal issues in order to bring Thaksin back as a free man. But Yingluck evaded all questions on the matter.

In a related development, the Democrats' legal team claimed to have discovered that Anudith might have made ill-gotten gains due to unexplained changes in his asset statements filed in 2008 and 2011.

When Anudith was elected as a Pheu Thai MP, he reported that his liabilities exceeded his assets by Bt2 million. Within three years, his wealth leapt to Bt11 million, even though his earnings amounted to no more than Bt3 million, the Democrats said.

The main Opposition party is expected to petition the NACC to look into the matter.

-- The Nation 2012-03-12

[Ricardo]

Better jaw-jaw than war-war, IMO.

[CalgaryII]

Main parties locked in legal battle, #1^

A tad misleading heading.

Suggesting the PTP is equally involved in using the Judges to resolve, and preferably use legal means, to achieve what the opposition cannot achieve electorally.

This was a key mantra of the PTP during the coup years, that being not only had an armed coup taken place, but was followed up by a judicial coup justifying the armed one.

The Opposition coup people also built self-serving legalities into their tampering with the Constitution following their power-grab. This is now the focus of the drive for Constitution reform. A Parliamentary committee articulated one element of that reform as follows:

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

I haven't tabulated all the times the Opposition has run to the judges over issues more correctly debated in Parliament, but I am sure such a tabulation would show significantly their MO in this regard.

For all the reason's above, to now suggest both Parties engage in this practice equally is not correct, IMHO

"Yingluck's leadership is unacceptable," she said, attacking the prime minister for refusing to clarify the stand on her brother Thaksin.

This added quote from the article is worthy of note.

This statement flies directly in the face of electoral choices.

Not only is Ms. Y's leadership validated via an election, Thaksin's association with it was fully declared.

This electoral majority is also not beholden to the Opposition anti-Thaksin agenda.

That agenda shows more clearly than anything, the linked parrallels between this Opposition, the coupists overthrow and subsequent criminalization campaign.

[jonclark]

This electoral majority is also not beholden to the Opposition anti-Thaksin agenda.

That agenda shows more clearly than anything, the linked parrallels between this Opposition, the coupists overthrow and subsequent criminalization campaign.

Calgaryll - Just remember the oppositions anti - taksin agenda got 10 million plus votes in the last election. That may not have been enough to win, but that is a large % of the voting population. PT would do well to remember that. The fact that it is anti democracy etc. etc is irrelevant as its still a large % of the voting population.

[lovetotravel]

This electoral majority is also not beholden to the Opposition anti-Thaksin agenda.

That agenda shows more clearly than anything, the linked parrallels between this Opposition, the coupists overthrow and subsequent criminalization campaign.

Calgaryll - Just remember the oppositions anti - taksin agenda got 10 million plus votes in the last election. That may not have been enough to win, but that is a large % of the voting population. PT would do well to remember that. The fact that it is anti democracy etc. etc is irrelevant as its still a large % of the voting population.

If I'm not mistaken, PT did not get an absolute majority in the last election. They are ruling via a coalition government. And they did not "officially" run with a platform of bringing back Thaksin. That's just becoming clearer and clearer day by day.

[Reasonableman]

Action against criminal activities does not make a "criminalization campaign", as we have seen with more recent convictions by the law courts.

Are you suggesting that you would prefer criminal activities go unchallenged, untried, and unpunished in selected cases? If that is the case, you would be an advocate of anarchy and double standards. Surely not.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Reasonableman

[Buchholz]

And with all this going on, we have....

Yingluck evaded all questions on the matter.

standard operating procedure in full motion.

.

[Reasonableman]

"Everyone knows", but "I don't remember the details"... Calgaryll integrity at its best. And then you refer to some dimly remembered hearsay and rumor as a supposed substantiation.

[gamini]

Main parties locked in legal battle, #1^

A tad misleading heading.

Suggesting the PTP is equally involved in using the Judges to resolve, and preferably use legal means, to achieve what the opposition cannot achieve electorally.

This was a key mantra of the PTP during the coup years, that being not only had an armed coup taken place, but was followed up by a judicial coup justifying the armed one.

The Opposition coup people also built self-serving legalities into their tampering with the Constitution following their power-grab. This is now the focus of the drive for Constitution reform. A Parliamentary committee articulated one element of that reform as follows:

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

I haven't tabulated all the times the Opposition has run to the judges over issues more correctly debated in Parliament, but I am sure such a tabulation would show significantly their MO in this regard.

For all the reason's above, to now suggest both Parties engage in this practice equally is not correct, IMHO

"Yingluck's leadership is unacceptable," she said, attacking the prime minister for refusing to clarify the stand on her brother Thaksin.

This added quote from the article is worthy of note.

This statement flies directly in the face of electoral choices.

Not only is Ms. Y's leadership validated via an election, Thaksin's association with it was fully declared.

This electoral majority is also not beholden to the Opposition anti-Thaksin agenda.

That agenda shows more clearly than anything, the linked parrallels between this Opposition, the coupists overthrow and subsequent criminalization campaign.

I guess you must be a red shirt supporter your views about so called democracy and theirs are very similar

[Thaddeus]

Just out of interest, is anyone actually running the country at the moment or are we just stuck with a bunch of arrogant spoilt brats in the sandbox.

[whybother]

Prompong said the Democrats had erected billboards in the South rallying people to oppose charter change, a move that could be construed as an expression of hostility toward democratic rule, an offence punishable by party dissolution.

How is campaigning against something "an expression of hostility toward democratic rule"?

The PTP (then PPP) and their supporters were, and still are, all up in arms about how they military government stopped campaigning against the 2007 constitution.

Now they're trying to do the same thing. Double Standards at it's best!

Yay for Red Democracy.

[Thai at Heart]

When do any of these legal challenges to sitting MP's actually work?

[lovetotravel]

These allegations are just the tip of the iceberg. The ones' Birdpooguava mentions are minor, to some other ones.

Everyone knows the serial voting and counting irregularities that occurred in Bangkok, where those sympathetic to the opposition controlled the process.

I don't remember all the details, as this is all 'water under the bridge' now.

The one example I recall hearing about, was during the count at one of the polling booths late in the evening, miraculously the lights went out and could not be restored..............but they kept counting.

Frustrated Poll watchers knowing the game, resorted to shining their car headlights on the proceedings.

As far as I am concerned, all's well that ends well.......the voters overwhelmingly elected Ms. Y, even overcoming all electoral irregularities.

And PTP has no allegations of misconduct? How about trying to vote for a party other than PTP in the North. Without getting beat up. Impossible.

And voters did not overwhelmingly elect Ms. Y. PTP won 265 seats out of 500. Not even enough to rule on their own. Barely a simple majority. But they did win.

Please posts facts in the future along with links to your information.

[Roj]

<Snip>

Please provide proof for this slanderous allegation.

These allegations are just the tip of the iceberg. The ones' Birdpooguava mentions are minor, to some other ones.

Everyone knows the serial voting and counting irregularities that occurred in Bangkok, where those sympathetic to the opposition controlled the process.

I don't remember all the details, as this is all 'water under the bridge' now.

The one example I recall hearing about, was during the count at one of the polling booths late in the evening, miraculously the lights went out and could not be restored..............but they kept counting.

Frustrated Poll watchers knowing the game, resorted to shining their car headlights on the proceedings.

As far as I am concerned, all's well that ends well.......the voters overwhelmingly elected Ms. Y, even overcoming all electoral irregularities.

You have got to be a wind up merchant considering the drivel you post about Thai politics. All I can say is that you have no insight of internal Thai politics because if you did you`d understand the political mechanics of village life - ordinary Joe and Jill Public villager really have no choice as to who they vote for if they want their occupation in the village to remain tenable. Edited March 12, 2012 by metisdead
Deleted post edited out of quoted posts.

[TAWP]

<Snip>

Please provide proof for this slanderous allegation.

These allegations are just the tip of the iceberg. The ones' Birdpooguava mentions are minor, to some other ones.

Yes, I am sure those allegations are minor to other allegations that your side regularly push out via the usual propaganda channels.

However I asked for some proof. Nor more unsubstantiated rants and allegations.

Edited March 12, 2012 by metisdead
Deleted post removed from quoted posts.

[waza]

Main parties locked in legal battle, #1^

A tad misleading heading.

Suggesting the PTP is equally involved in using the Judges to resolve, and preferably use legal means, to achieve what the opposition cannot achieve electorally.

This was a key mantra of the PTP during the coup years, that being not only had an armed coup taken place, but was followed up by a judicial coup justifying the armed one.

The Opposition coup people also built self-serving legalities into their tampering with the Constitution following their power-grab. This is now the focus of the drive for Constitution reform. A Parliamentary committee articulated one element of that reform as follows:

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

I haven't tabulated all the times the Opposition has run to the judges over issues more correctly debated in Parliament, but I am sure such a tabulation would show significantly their MO in this regard.

For all the reason's above, to now suggest both Parties engage in this practice equally is not correct, IMHO

"Yingluck's leadership is unacceptable," she said, attacking the prime minister for refusing to clarify the stand on her brother Thaksin.

This added quote from the article is worthy of note.

This statement flies directly in the face of electoral choices.

Not only is Ms. Y's leadership validated via an election, Thaksin's association with it was fully declared.

This electoral majority is also not beholden to the Opposition anti-Thaksin agenda.

That agenda shows more clearly than anything, the linked parrallels between this Opposition, the coupists overthrow and subsequent criminalization campaign.

LOL, More of CalgaryII's shotgun of lies approach to posting, its embarrassing to read your continued red apologist posts that have no credibility. But back to the topic, if they are breaking the rules they should be pulled up on it, thats democracy and the rule of law in action.

[pimay11]

"Everyone knows", but "I don't remember the details"... Calgaryll integrity at its best. And then you refer to some dimly remembered hearsay and rumor as a supposed substantiation.

Coupled with his seeing events that have not yet transpired as well as seeing an actual event, but in a different way from any other person in the world, and it's quite an extraordinary collection building up.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5127427

.

Consider the source. First of all, not in Thailand. Second a troll. Third a bater of which he is a master..........

Edited March 12, 2012 by pimay11

[takatukaland]

This electoral majority is also not beholden to the Opposition anti-Thaksin agenda.

That agenda shows more clearly than anything, the linked parrallels between this Opposition, the coupists overthrow and subsequent criminalization campaign.

Calgaryll - Just remember the oppositions anti - taksin agenda got 10 million plus votes in the last election. That may not have been enough to win, but that is a large % of the voting population. PT would do well to remember that. The fact that it is anti democracy etc. etc is irrelevant as its still a large % of the voting population.

If I'm not mistaken, PT did not get an absolute majority in the last election. They are ruling via a coalition government. And they did not "officially" run with a platform of bringing back Thaksin. That's just becoming clearer and clearer day by day.

Hopefully he comes back soon and kick some butts,then all that bullshit about suing each other will have an end,the democrats lost the last election,so they should stop destabilize the whole country with there micky mouse shit,next election will come soon,they should concentrate on that.Yingluck wants her brother comes back,so what?Half of Thai populations wants him back,he might be a selfish guy with dictator atitude ,but with him Thailand will be again on the right way,He was best PM Thailand ever had,good for thais bad for pattaya farang

[metisdead]

A post of a possible defammatory/slanderous nature has been removed as well as some replies.

Edit: A post not related to this topic has been removed.

[pimay11]

This electoral majority is also not beholden to the Opposition anti-Thaksin agenda.

That agenda shows more clearly than anything, the linked parrallels between this Opposition, the coupists overthrow and subsequent criminalization campaign.

Calgaryll - Just remember the oppositions anti - taksin agenda got 10 million plus votes in the last election. That may not have been enough to win, but that is a large % of the voting population. PT would do well to remember that. The fact that it is anti democracy etc. etc is irrelevant as its still a large % of the voting population.

If I'm not mistaken, PT did not get an absolute majority in the last election. They are ruling via a coalition government. And they did not "officially" run with a platform of bringing back Thaksin. That's just becoming clearer and clearer day by day.

Hopefully he comes back soon and kick some butts,then all that bullshit about suing each other will have an end,the democrats lost the last election,so they should stop destabilize the whole country with there micky mouse shit,next election will come soon,they should concentrate on that.Yingluck wants her brother comes back,so what?Half of Thai populations wants him back,he might be a selfish guy with dictator atitude ,but with him Thailand will be again on the right way,He was best PM Thailand ever had,good for thais bad for pattaya farang

I don't suppose you consider the red shirts establishing 10,000+ red villages and threatening a TV host because he simply has a different view than the red shirts destabilizing at all. Red democracy at its best. If you don't agree with the reds "something might happen to you". No double standards for sure.

[birdpooguava]

The assertion that PT didn't get a majority is ludicrous. It is well known that one of their main support bases has the worst polling turnouts in the country. Millions of North & North-east Thais live & work hundreds of miles from their home electorate, don't have the money or time to return home or the know how to go to their local government offices and pre-vote outside of their electorate. This all coupled with the facts that the Democrats doctored the electorate boundaries in their favour & used BMA officials to overturn what all 3 reputable exit polls said was a clear victory in BKK for PT. And what was the result; 265 : 159. The real sentiment is far more overwhelming.

[frodo]

The assertion that PT didn't get a majority is ludicrous. It is well known that one of their main support bases has the worst polling turnouts in the country. Millions of North & North-east Thais live & work hundreds of miles from their home electorate, don't have the money or time to return home or the know how to go to their local government offices and pre-vote outside of their electorate. This all coupled with the facts that the Democrats doctored the electorate boundaries in their favour & used BMA officials to overturn what all 3 reputable exit polls said was a clear victory in BKK for PT. And what was the result; 265 : 159. The real sentiment is far more overwhelming.

Really? Can you please provide some links which show your facts that the Democrats doctored the electorate and that the BMA officials overturned the exit poll results. Not interested in your opinion, just the facts.

Thank you

[whybother]

The assertion that PT didn't get a majority is ludicrous. It is well known that one of their main support bases has the worst polling turnouts in the country. Millions of North & North-east Thais live & work hundreds of miles from their home electorate, don't have the money or time to return home or the know how to go to their local government offices and pre-vote outside of their electorate. This all coupled with the facts that the Democrats doctored the electorate boundaries in their favour & used BMA officials to overturn what all 3 reputable exit polls said was a clear victory in BKK for PT. And what was the result; 265 : 159. The real sentiment is far more overwhelming.

The people doing the exit polls explained their discrepancies. Exit polls are not in any way scientifically valid. A lot of people that get asked who they voted for when they leave the polling booths do not respond, or sometimes say something different to how they voted, for various reasons, not least that they don't want others to know who they voted for.

[birdpooguava]

The assertion that PT didn't get a majority is ludicrous. It is well known that one of their main support bases has the worst polling turnouts in the country. Millions of North & North-east Thais live & work hundreds of miles from their home electorate, don't have the money or time to return home or the know how to go to their local government offices and pre-vote outside of their electorate. This all coupled with the facts that the Democrats doctored the electorate boundaries in their favour & used BMA officials to overturn what all 3 reputable exit polls said was a clear victory in BKK for PT. And what was the result; 265 : 159. The real sentiment is far more overwhelming.

Really? Can you please provide some links which show your facts that the Democrats doctored the electorate and that the BMA officials overturned the exit poll results. Not interested in your opinion, just the facts.

Thank you

The Democrats and their coalition partners (with arms behind their backs) amended the electoral format, expanding the party list representation in parliament and moving the remaining constituency seats from a multi-seat to a single-seat format. Chris Baker, a respected Bangkok analyst, said the amended system could boost Mr Abhisit's Democrats, the lead party in the governing coalition, but which has been comfortably beaten by pro-Thaksin parties in recent elections.

He said that the Democrats ''did much better last time on the party list than the territorial constituencies. Shifting seats from territorial to party list should favour them."

As for the Bangkok vote rigging; The exit polls ABAC; PT 299 Dusit: 313. All of the seats that happened to swing mysteriously to the Dems were in the BMA democrat stronghold. PT MPs in the last parliamentary debate openly accused the Dems of electoral fraud in BKK.

[whybother]

The Democrats and their coalition partners (with arms behind their backs) amended the electoral format, expanding the party list representation in parliament and moving the remaining constituency seats from a multi-seat to a single-seat format. Chris Baker, a respected Bangkok analyst, said the amended system could boost Mr Abhisit's Democrats, the lead party in the governing coalition, but which has been comfortably beaten by pro-Thaksin parties in recent elections.

He said that the Democrats ''did much better last time on the party list than the territorial constituencies. Shifting seats from territorial to party list should favour them."

What has the seat changes got to do with vote rigging?

As for the Bangkok vote rigging; The exit polls ABAC; PT 299 Dusit: 313. All of the seats that happened to swing mysteriously to the Dems were in the BMA democrat stronghold. PT MPs in the last parliamentary debate openly accused the Dems of electoral fraud in BKK.

Votes are counted in front of everyone. How do you suggest that they actually rigged the votes?

[bigbamboo]

_{Only one man is amazing enough to sort this problem out. Send for Drew Noyes!}

Edited March 12, 2012 by bigbamboo

[birdpooguava]

The Democrats and their coalition partners (with arms behind their backs) amended the electoral format, expanding the party list representation in parliament and moving the remaining constituency seats from a multi-seat to a single-seat format. Chris Baker, a respected Bangkok analyst, said the amended system could boost Mr Abhisit's Democrats, the lead party in the governing coalition, but which has been comfortably beaten by pro-Thaksin parties in recent elections.

He said that the Democrats ''did much better last time on the party list than the territorial constituencies. Shifting seats from territorial to party list should favour them."

What has the seat changes got to do with vote rigging?

As for the Bangkok vote rigging; The exit polls ABAC; PT 299 Dusit: 313. All of the seats that happened to swing mysteriously to the Dems were in the BMA democrat stronghold. PT MPs in the last parliamentary debate openly accused the Dems of electoral fraud in BKK.

Votes are counted in front of everyone. How do you suggest that they actually rigged the votes?

Properly conducted exit polls should mirror actual votes with a high degree of reliability. Around the world, exit polls are used to verify the integrity of elections. The United States has funded exit polls in Eastern Europe to detect fraud. Discrepancies between exit polls and the official vote count have been used to successfully overturn election results in Ukraine, Serbia, the Republic of Georgia and Peru. In nations with transparent voting practices (e.g., votes cast on paper ballot and counted in full public view), exit polls predict official results accurately.The fact that all 3 major exit polls showed PT won Bangkok means there is a distinct odour of rat surrounding these results.

[whybother]

Properly conducted exit polls should mirror actual votes with a high degree of reliability. Around the world, exit polls are used to verify the integrity of elections. The United States has funded exit polls in Eastern Europe to detect fraud. Discrepancies between exit polls and the official vote count have been used to successfully overturn election results in Ukraine, Serbia, the Republic of Georgia and Peru. In nations with transparent voting practices (e.g., votes cast on paper ballot and counted in full public view), exit polls predict official results accurately.The fact that all 3 major exit polls showed PT won Bangkok means there is a distinct odour of rat surrounding these results.

No. Around the world Exit Polls are used for news purposes. They have no scientific standing.

But exit polls aren't always reliable, and the controversy surrounding the 2000 election is the most infamous example. The exit pollsters and news organizations awarded Florida to Al Gore before the polls closed and then retracted it. Later, the networks (but not the exit pollsters) awarded Florida to George W. Bush--and then retracted that call, too.

There was a lot of blame to go around. Absentee votes were undercounted, and the election model was flawed. A simple mistake in data entry inflated Gore's vote. Fierce network competition to be the first to call the contest triggered the premature calls. After the election, the networks vowed not to release results in any state until all the polls in that state had closed.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/01/exit-polls-election-oped-cx_kb_1103bowman.html

And that's in the US where people aren't really worried about saying who they voted for.

[Thaddeus]

The Democrats and their coalition partners (with arms behind their backs) amended the electoral format, expanding the party list representation in parliament and moving the remaining constituency seats from a multi-seat to a single-seat format. Chris Baker, a respected Bangkok analyst, said the amended system could boost Mr Abhisit's Democrats, the lead party in the governing coalition, but which has been comfortably beaten by pro-Thaksin parties in recent elections.

He said that the Democrats ''did much better last time on the party list than the territorial constituencies. Shifting seats from territorial to party list should favour them."

What has the seat changes got to do with vote rigging?

As for the Bangkok vote rigging; The exit polls ABAC; PT 299 Dusit: 313. All of the seats that happened to swing mysteriously to the Dems were in the BMA democrat stronghold. PT MPs in the last parliamentary debate openly accused the Dems of electoral fraud in BKK.

Votes are counted in front of everyone. How do you suggest that they actually rigged the votes?

Properly conducted exit polls should mirror actual votes with a high degree of reliability. Around the world, exit polls are used to verify the integrity of elections. The United States has funded exit polls in Eastern Europe to detect fraud. Discrepancies between exit polls and the official vote count have been used to successfully overturn election results in Ukraine, Serbia, the Republic of Georgia and Peru. In nations with transparent voting practices (e.g., votes cast on paper ballot and counted in full public view), exit polls predict official results accurately.The fact that all 3 major exit polls showed PT won Bangkok means there is a distinct odour of rat surrounding these results.

Read the post below yours and try and do your best to understand it.

[OzMick]

The Democrats and their coalition partners (with arms behind their backs) amended the electoral format, expanding the party list representation in parliament and moving the remaining constituency seats from a multi-seat to a single-seat format. Chris Baker, a respected Bangkok analyst, said the amended system could boost Mr Abhisit's Democrats, the lead party in the governing coalition, but which has been comfortably beaten by pro-Thaksin parties in recent elections.

He said that the Democrats ''did much better last time on the party list than the territorial constituencies. Shifting seats from territorial to party list should favour them."

What has the seat changes got to do with vote rigging?

As for the Bangkok vote rigging; The exit polls ABAC; PT 299 Dusit: 313. All of the seats that happened to swing mysteriously to the Dems were in the BMA democrat stronghold. PT MPs in the last parliamentary debate openly accused the Dems of electoral fraud in BKK.

Votes are counted in front of everyone. How do you suggest that they actually rigged the votes?

Mere details and facts will never derail a good conspiracy theory.