Chalerm: Push To Bring Thaksin Back Is My Idea

[webfact]

Deputy Agriculture Minister Endorses Thaksin's Return

BANGKOK: -- Deputy Agriculture Minister Nattawut Saikuer claims that former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra should receive justice and allowed to return to Thailand to fight his charges. He also asked all sides to help promote national reconciliation.

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who is currently living in a self-imposed exile abroad, announced to the foreign press earlier that he will return to Thailand this year.

However, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has contradicted her brother's claim, saying that it is unlikely and his return will take place this year.

Deputy Agriculture Minister Nattawut Saikuer, who is also a prominent red shirt leader, has also weighted in on the speculation, stating that Thaksin should be given justice and allowed to return to the country to fight his charges.

Nattawut believes that Thaksin is a part of the ongoing political rift and that the former prime minister will return once the country is deemed to be fully democratized again. He said that Thaksin opted not to come back at this time because he is still be persecuted by his opponents.

Nattawut claimed that Thaksin issue is a part of the national reconciliation process and asked all sides to address the problem together.

-- Tan Network 2012-03-13

[Buchholz]

To denigrate disagreement by suggesting it is insincere and must be salaried, is not right.

This is in the same vein as those who suggest disagreement must be trolling, by those who disagree with them.

The messenger vs. message thing is also obvious to all.

Lack of response to the message, demonstrates a paucity of insight.

I'm just an old man who has earned the right to say what he thinks, dam_n the torpedoes.

well said!

Sure everybody is entitled to an opinion but not entitled to continuously write things which are blatantly untrue - proven several times to be untrue. And seriously and obviously twisting the facts of the matter.

Actually I've been thinking about making a case to George to ask him to consider banning people who continue to post things, again and again, which have been proven to be quite untruthful.

better said !

.

[whybother]

former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra should receive justice and allowed to return to Thailand to fight his charges.

He HAS received justice, and he IS allowed to return to fight his charges.

[Buchholz]

BANGKOK: -- Deputy Agriculture Minister Nattawut Saikuer claims that former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra should receive justice and allowed to return to Thailand to fight his charges.

It would appear that Indicted-Red-Shirt-Leader-Currently-Out-On-Bail Natthawut differs from Chalerm, who said Thaksin should be able to come back and not have to fight anything and doesn't need to face any of his charges because of complete exoneration.

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who is currently living in a self-imposed exile abroad, announced to the foreign press earlier that he will return to Thailand this year.

While circus ringleader Thaksin differs from everyone.

.

[phiphidon]

To denigrate disagreement by suggesting it is insincere and must be salaried, is not right.

This is in the same vein as those who suggest disagreement must be trolling, by those who disagree with them.

The messenger vs. message thing is also obvious to all.

Lack of response to the message, demonstrates a paucity of insight.

I'm just an old man who has earned the right to say what he thinks, dam_n the torpedoes.

well said!

Sure everybody is entitled to an opinion but not entitled to continuously write things which are blatantly untrue - proven several times to be untrue. And seriously and obviously twisting the facts of the matter.

Actually I've been thinking about making a case to George to ask him to consider banning people who continue to post things, again and again, which have been proven to be quite untruthful.

better said !

.

Why not go a bit further and ban people from posting things you don't like or agree with. Be careful for what you wish for.

[Buchholz]

Why not go a bit further and ban people from posting things you don't like or agree with. Be careful for what you wish for.

Have a re-read of scorecard's post.

.

[Misterwhisper]

If the man pursues this idea as his personal brainchild, he should have declared it as such. Instead he came across in previous news reports as speaking in his capacity as deputy PM, i.e. on behalf of the government of Thailand.

But then again, he talks and talks and talks and talks, often making the most ridiculous statements. One almost could gain the impression as if he were drunk most of the time - or suffered from an inner ear infection.

[Nickymaster]

Push to bring Thaksin back is my idea, Chalerm says", #1^

"She also denied the government's support for constitutional changes was aimed at ensuring any one person's return to Thailand"

But it can certainly appear to be so.

When one considers that it was anti-Thaksin motives for coupists when they tampered with the constitution.

Because their revisions were done with him in mind, to have legitimate electoral based corrections made now, can seem to be pro-Thaksin, when all they are doing, is undoing coup sourced damage.

"In 2008, Thaksin was sentenced to two years in jail for abuse of power, in a case based on an inquiry by the post-coup Assets Examination Committee. He left Thailand shortly before the court read its verdict and has been living in self-exile, mostly in Dubai"

An unqualified statement such as this can be very misleading without contextualizing it.

The context being that this was part of the self-serving crminalization campaign of their electoral nemesis by coupists, to justify their power-grab.

It is what the UDD/Red Shirts characterized as the 'judicial coup" which followed the original one.

Unless one contextualizes it, can seem to be different than it is.

"Abhisit, also the Democrat Party leader, said the conflict was now between the country's legal system and Thaksin, who was trying to avoid judicial power over him."

The conflict is not that.

It is a conflict between coupist remnants and those who subsequently voted this Government into power, with fully declared Thaksin association.

To equate the country's legal system to coup machinations does not fly, and is denigrating to the legal system. It only resonates with the various elements and motives of the Opposition.

Chalerm said he had no need to whitewash Thaksin's wrongdoing "because he never committed any. There is no need for him to get an amnesty or pardon."

This statement by Chalerm reflects above perspective, and is shared by the electoral majority.

As much as the Opposition would love the country to get behind their anti-Thaksin campaign, and to share their spin that constitution reforms are singularly motivated, it doesn't resonate beyond their own circles.

"This statement by Chalerm reflects above perspective, and is shared by the electoral majority."

This proves that you have no idea what democracy means. In your "democracy" we don't need courts. Just let the people decide right?

[anterian]

1. George is the gentleman who started Thaivisa many years ago as a small outlet to provide some clarity on visas and over many years his 'TV' has grown to what we all see today. Well done George. No he's not a buddy of mine, I have never met the man, and I probably never will.

2. I did not in any way suggest that I personally should decide if posts should be rejected, that is clearly the prerogative of George. My post cannot possibly be interpreted that I was suggesting I should make such decisions and you blatantly wrong in your assertion.

3. Freedom of speech, yes I very much support the notion and the right to freedom of speech.

I also support the notion that people should tell the truth and it is a fact that there are many posters (one in particular) who fill these threads with writings which are blatantly untrue, repeated again and again.

Should posters who again and again write blatant and serious untruths, regardless of which side your on (and personally I find good and bad in all of the 'colors') be banned or cautioned? Interesting point and the answer is up to George.

A sensible reply to which I will attempt to do the same. We are debating the nature of lies versus facts. I believe that in many cases this is subjective, a few hundred years ago it was an obvious fact the the sun traveled around the earth, you could see it do so, but now we know this is not so. Were the earthcentric people liars, or just ignorant. Any criminologist will tell you that eyewitness accounts are very unreliable, several witnesses of the same incident will have recollections of very different events. In many cases our personal attitudes and desires will colour our interpretation of events. Watching a public speaker who is slow and frequently pauses, we might say they were thinking carefully about their comments, a more unfriendly judgement might be the speaker was hesitant and did not understand the topic.

If a turnstile clocks a hundred thousand people, that is indisputable fact, judging the same number by sight may vary from a few thousands to nearly a million, again your desires colour your estimate, do you want it small or large.

What I am saying is there is a difference between telling a lie you know is a lie, and telling the truth AS YOU SEE IT.

I enjoy a debate, and never knowingly lie, I resent any who call me such, I am sure most others feel the same. It is one thing to be told you are wrong, this is not the same as being called a liar.

Some people in this forum jump in with all canons blazing, people who think differently from them are attacked mercilessly, if this is what George wants then so be it, but you called George a gentleman, now perhaps I'm old fashioned, to me this is not gentlemanly behaviour, I would hope he would agree.

I have never read the rules but I am sure one of them must say personal attacks are not allowed. Yet far to often in this forum I have witnessed personal attacks, I think many people have adopted Thai standards of debate as shown by their MPs, what next, must we start suing each other for defamation.

[Nickymaster]

I think Chalerm is the right man for the job. He has proven to be successful in bringing a convicted criminal back into Thailand.

[JeremyBowskill]

The only push I would be worried about if I were Chalerm is pushing Takins hand out my arse, the glove puppet!

[hyperdimension]

• Is it possible that The coupist aggressors at R'song were wrong, and the protesters were right, as last years' election validated?
  

Not everyone who voted for Pheu Thai voted because of political ideology, despite your attempts to convince us that the "anti-coupists" won. I would say that self-interest was the main driver of the decisions of the voters. Pheu Thai offered more, so much that the country's debt is set to rise significantly, which can lead to inflation. What matters to most voters are tangible things like more money in their wallet or purse, and they may not be aware of the resulting hidden tax of inflation that may end up offsetting such extra money that they will hold. Even people in developed countries aren't aware of the inflationary effects of increasing the money supply, so we can't blame ordinary Thais for not being aware of the cause-and-effect, as not everyone has studied economics.

If Pheu Thai had made absolutely no promises during their election campaign, and instead simply promoted their anti-coup stance and verbally attacked the 2006 coupists, would they have received as many votes as they did in the last election? I think the reason that they did make attractive promises to the people was because they knew that they may not win if they had made zero promises. Or, if their only promise was to have Thaksin return as a free man, that would have been risky for Pheu Thai too, as most of the population probably don't care about Thaksin (they care more for themselves and their own families).

Edited March 13, 2012 by hyperdimension

[MAJIC]

What a Comedy of errors!

Seems to me, it's like the Country,now has two Prime Ministers,each one claiming it was their idea when it suits them,and denying all knowledge when it doesn't,and on top of that,the man from Dubai is controlling both PMs.

Welcome to the game of .......Political Ping Pong.

Edited March 13, 2012 by MAJIC

[bigbamboo]

I was sure that it was The DL's idea - maybe Chalerm is now going rogue.

Going rogue? .......I thought he was already well gone. He must test even Calgaryll's patience!

Edited March 13, 2012 by bigbamboo

[mrtoad]

I was sure that it was The DL's idea - maybe Chalerm is now going rogue.

Going rogue? .......I thought he was already well gone. He must test even Calgaryll's patience!

I thought that Calgaryll and Chalerm are the same person

[janetrizzo]

Peace to Thailand. However, I'm not taking any chances, civil war is eminent. Great food, people, etc. God love ya...

[anterian]

There is an old saying, "If you can't beat them, join them". Hidden in this saying is the implication that it is easier to work from within than to attack from without. You may ask what is the relevance of this to the way this thread has developed? My answer is simple, rather than attacking the PT and its supporters, is it not better to go along with them and nudge them in a better direction. Of course this assumes that you have some influence on those Thais you deal with, and I think we do to a greater or lesser extent.

In this forum farangs seem to be constantly tearing each other apart over the political situation, such a waste of intellect and energy. I have been appointed "observer" to my village committee, it is a mixed group, reds, yellows and neither, yet we all try to work for the common good of the village.

[Buchholz]

What a Comedy of errors!

Seems to me, it's like the Country,now has two Prime Ministers,each one claiming it was their idea when it suits them,and denying all knowledge when it doesn't,and on top of that,the man from Dubai is controlling both PMs.

Welcome to the game of .......Political Ping Pong.

Very much so.

A 3-ring circus leader.... meeting today in Hong Kong with one of his Pheu Thai Party troupe of clowns.

.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Buchholz

[metisdead]

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[MEL1]

People weren't dumb. They just didn't know the difference, like calgary-ill in the head doesn't. They weren't directed, but simply 300 baht was more than Abhisit was prepared to offer per year long term. 300 baht is a lot of persuasion of the masses of Esan land - when they all think they are getting 20 million baht - but don't know it's 300 each. Marketing is something TS used to be good at. Unfortunately, the 300 baht a year hasn't been maintained, rice selling prices are controlled at all time low, because of the growing mountains, and the rice growers are not stupid, or are they?

They know all of their land is now owned by farang, according to newspaper issues, and there is no law for the wife of farang to stop their fields being transported to USA for a supplement of $40B Baht, which they think USA needs to supply, not knowing most will come from Japan and China. So the rice farmers must bow and wei to farang now, cos we have their land!

And Hey! The rice farmers never stayed in a hotel for a meeting, or never even frequented a hotel, so they don't know what one of them is too!

It surmounts to which rice farming family head is pissed on Esan whisky, when Chalerm speaks his broth, as to agreement and understanding or not.

I see trouble ahead in BKK........ but not from the rice farmers...... but from the spouts of beer broth from a loser who knows he is hated by his own team......

Repeat, repetivive, and quite Chalermly becoming boring."When something happens I'll have much more to say", says Charles Chalerm when his plants wake up and realise what a Alan Bstd he really is, though he will be talking to them in pissed up state, as usual.

-mel.

[animatic]

former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra should receive justice and allowed to return to Thailand to fight his charges.

He HAS received justice, and he IS allowed to return to fight his charges.

He just refuses to return because that means MORE charges will start up in the courts.

Not to mention he never file his appeal and let the appeal time lapse.

He can no longer fight the Abuse of Power charge for Racha,

because it's all done cut and dried, and he has used all his legal remedies,

leaving extra legal ones, insurection or buying up ALL the functions of government

lock stock and barrel. And then changing them to fit what he wants.

Edited March 13, 2012 by animatic