UK pensions

[denby45]

8 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Perhaps we should have our pensions increased by cost + 50% for not using the NHS, its only fair if we go back and use it and they charge us cost +50%.

Sounds OK to me however the gov might counter with "you do not pay any VAT on any purchases you make with the pension we provide so we will give you the cost +50% and we will reduce your pension by 20%". I know who will lose out.

 

 

Den

[nong38]

I just booked some rail trips, do I pay VAT on them not sure but I will spending big time at the local chippy and Wetherspoons, now can I have my rebate?

[billd766]

1 hour ago, denby45 said:

Sounds OK to me however the gov might counter with "you do not pay any VAT on any purchases you make with the pension we provide so we will give you the cost +50% and we will reduce your pension by 20%". I know who will lose out.

 

 

Den

 

But the pension that they provide has been paid in part by pensioners anyway and in part by taxpayers. There ar many pensioners who are part funding their own pensions through income tax as I am.

 

 

[transam]

2 hours ago, denby45 said:

Sounds OK to me however the gov might counter with "you do not pay any VAT on any purchases you make with the pension we provide so we will give you the cost +50% and we will reduce your pension by 20%". I know who will lose out.

 

 

Den

In the "OK" countries we "can" live we pay no UK VAT...

[sumrit]

10 hours ago, denby45 said:

Sounds OK to me however the gov might counter with "you do not pay any VAT on any purchases you make with the pension we provide so we will give you the cost +50% and we will reduce your pension by 20%". I know who will lose out.

 

 

Den

With the greatest of respect, that's a stupid argument that just can't hold water. 

 

As I've said on here before VAT (and various purchase taxes before that)  was introduced to tax people IF they chose to buy taxable items but would not tax people in any way shape or form if they chose to save any money they had instead of spending it. 

 

Under VAT rules NOBODY would be forced to spend any spare cash they had and nobody would be penalised for not spending their money.

 

 For you to suggest we are penalised and our pensions are frozen because we don't spend enough VAT goes against the reason for VAT and the very reason it was introduced to enforce. 

 

When I reached 65 in 2015 my state pension was £115.95. If spending that in the UK, close to £100 would probably go on VAT FREE essentials such as weekly food/household shopping and council tax etc and LOW RATED VAT utility essentials such as water, gas and electricity, leaving very little to spend on items carrying 20% VAT, if I choose to spend any of it. But if living in the UK, I wouldn't be forced to spend any of whats left. 

 

The current pension rate I should receive is £122.30 and would increase to £125.95 this month. So, after just three short years the UK Government already steal £10.00 a week off me AND IT CAN ONLY GET WORSE YEAR AFTER YEAR because, according to you, I don't spend any available money on VATable items in the UK, which at best would create about £3.00 a week in VAT.

 

I'll say again yours is a stupid argument!!!! 

[evadgib]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/more-support-for-disabled-people-plus-other-welfare-and-pension-reforms-start-in-april

[billd766]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/more-support-for-disabled-people-plus-other-welfare-and-pension-reforms-start-in-april

 

Does this apply to expats?

 

Funeral Expenses Payment

For people on qualifying benefits, Funeral Expenses Payments contribute towards the cost of arranging a funeral. From 2 April, it has been made simpler for people to claim a Funeral Expenses Payment. Changes include extending the period in which a claim can be made and allowing recipients to receive contributions from friends and family without them being deducted from the payment.

 

After all expats die too.

[nong38]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/more-support-for-disabled-people-plus-other-welfare-and-pension-reforms-start-in-april

Incredible quiet incredible, discrimination against those who have pad their dues! Where does equal opportunities and discrimination part company?

[denby45]

3 hours ago, sumrit said:

With the greatest of respect, that's a stupid argument that just can't hold water. 

 

As I've said on here before VAT (and various purchase taxes before that)  was introduced to tax people IF they chose to buy taxable items but would not tax people in any way shape or form if they chose to save any money they had instead of spending it. 

 

Under VAT rules NOBODY would be forced to spend any spare cash they had and nobody would be penalised for not spending their money.

 

 For you to suggest we are penalised and our pensions are frozen because we don't spend enough VAT goes against the reason for VAT and the very reason it was introduced to enforce. 

 

When I reached 65 in 2015 my state pension was £115.95. If spending that in the UK, close to £100 would probably go on VAT FREE essentials such as weekly food/household shopping and council tax etc and LOW RATED VAT utility essentials such as water, gas and electricity, leaving very little to spend on items carrying 20% VAT, if I choose to spend any of it. But if living in the UK, I wouldn't be forced to spend any of whats left. 

 

The current pension rate I should receive is £122.30 and would increase to £125.95 this month. So, after just three short years the UK Government already steal £10.00 a week off me AND IT CAN ONLY GET WORSE YEAR AFTER YEAR because, according to you, I don't spend any available money on VATable items in the UK, which at best would create about £3.00 a week in VAT.

 

I'll say again yours is a stupid argument!!!! 

Don't get on your high horse. I never said it was my suggestion. It is something the government can and have thrown into the debates on frozen pensions. You obviously didn't bother to read my statement that I am completely against the frozen pension. It is plainly wrong. Also unless you crawl under a rock and hide never venturing out into the world you will pay VAT in the UK whether you like it or not. Yes there are some things which are VAT free but who runs their life avoiding VAT at all cost. Oh don't go to the bar or you will pay VAT. OOPS I had a takeaway last night. Straight to confession for me. Get away from me with that red bull you nasty VATer. Darling can we go out to dinner tonight? No effin way pet it's tinged with VAT. 

 

 

Den

[OJAS]

On 4/8/2018 at 1:44 PM, evadgib said:

Noted. I may challenge that when my ppt expires as it is frankly ridiculous. A fellow resident applied online and sent his ppt to a sibling in UK to be forwarded to HMPO which worked for him but they frankly shouldn't place us in a position where this becomes necessary.

Also worth noting that the alleged requirement for us to have our passports on us at all times was no bar to the furthest we needed to travel at passport renewal time under the previous Hong Kong procedures was to our local post office or nearest DHL depot!

[OJAS]

On 4/8/2018 at 12:42 PM, Eff1n2ret said:

None of that answers the point that if you visit the UK, not for medical treatment but simply to see your family, and have the bad luck to be hospitalised there, you will be lucky to avoid being landed with a crippling bill. Bravado about facing them down is unlikely to cut it if they are minded to make a few simple checks, and it appears that they are increasingly encouraged to do so. Anyone whose pension is paid from the UK  or with assets there is the easiest target, and government departments will always, always pick the easiest targets to justify their existence.

To play devil's advocate for 1 moment, I wonder whether a possible argument on HMG's part back in 2015 in justification of the withdrawal of our entitlement to free NHS treatment on our trips back to the UK would have been alignment with entitlement to free medical cover in the EU under the European Health Insurance Card scheme, which had long previously been a no-no for British national non-EU residents like ourselves. Not that I would necessarily agree with any such argument, I should hasten to point out, and it most certainly would not, of course, have provided any rationale for the 50% surcharge with which we are faced in any event.

[OJAS]

13 hours ago, denby45 said:

Also unless you crawl under a rock and hide never venturing out into the world you will pay VAT in the UK whether you like it or not.

And, likewise, we all have to pay VAT in LOS whether we like it or not, despite the fact that we get SFA in return here as well.

[Oxx]

46 minutes ago, OJAS said:

And, likewise, we all have to pay VAT in LOS whether we like it or not, despite the fact that we get SFA in return here as well.

 

Well, apart from road and bridges, policemen and judges, free education for our children, cheap hospitals, an army to protect us, a postal service, public TV and public transportation, plus all the rest of it.  SFA, as you say.

[evadgib]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/free-bus-passes-for-older-and-disabled-people-protected-for-the-future

[billd766]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/free-bus-passes-for-older-and-disabled-people-protected-for-the-future

 

I wonder if the local baht bus driver or the Thai National Bus Company will let me travel for free as I am 73. 

[transam]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I wonder if the local baht bus driver or the Thai National Bus Company will let me travel for free as I am 73. 

Not without fisticuffs...

[billd766]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Not without fisticuffs...

 

No problem. I will give him a good bashing with my

 

 

 

[denby45]

20 hours ago, evadgib said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/free-bus-passes-for-older-and-disabled-people-protected-for-the-future

Is there a bus running from Newcastle to Pattaya? That would be great.

 

Den

[evadgib]

57 minutes ago, denby45 said:

Is there a bus running from Newcastle to Pattaya? That would be great.

 

Den

Only as far as LHR terminal 5.

[billzant]

I have not read 276 pages - sorry.

When I retired here I accepted the notion of frozen pensions as being what is.  But it angered me when people from other countries get pension increases. What has now made me incensed (slightly) is that if I lived in the Philippines my pension would not be frozen.

Look at this map http://frozenbritishpensions.org/the-problem/

Personally a pension is concerned with whether you have made contributions as opposed to where you spend it.

I think the problem is "reciprocal". Has it been discussed why Thailand does not have an agreement?

[billzant]

Another information link http://www.britishpensions.org.au/frozenindexed.htm

[nong38]

49 minutes ago, billzant said:

Another information link http://www.britishpensions.org.au/frozenindexed.htm

Reciprocal would be nice but its not the problem, the problem is clause 20 of the Pension Bill. Every year there is the option to change clause 20 and uprate the frozen pensions of expats but there does seem to be the political will in the House to do so, MP's seem happy to leave things as they are and have been since 1955 when frozen pensions started. Although there seems to be a lot of sympathy in the press the powers that be just ignore it, UK pensioners seem happy to not support it but accept that its ok in the EU and if another 500,000 suddenly got their frozen pension upgraded it would affect the UK pensioners pension pot, funny how people see different sides to these things.

Going back over the pages you would have seen all your points aired, we do not use the services and in return we get our pensions frozen and if we were to go back and you need to use the NHS its charged at cost plus 50% and that's on top of having to still pay tax to HMRC direct and indirect ( if you fly back you will have to pay Passenger duty amongst other things.).

[Swimman]

There is a 'Frozen Pension" lobby group  http://pensionjustice.org/

[evadgib]

55 minutes ago, Swimman said:

There is a 'Frozen Pension" lobby group  http://pensionjustice.org/

Its in everyone's interest to sign up to CABP/BPiA but sadly too many are content to sit back and let others do the lobbying. I want this sorted by the time I reach state pension age therefore am a member of both.

[billzant]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Its in everyone's interest to sign up to CABP/BPiA but sadly too many are content to sit back and let others do the lobbying. I want this sorted by the time I reach state pension age therefore am a member of both.

Thanks I have seen this group. I agree they should be supported but they tend to use the word "commonwealth" rather than expat. Understandable in a way given the numbers. I think inflation in Commonwealth countries is much worse than Thailand.

[billzant]

2 hours ago, nong38 said:

Reciprocal would be nice but its not the problem, the problem is clause 20 of the Pension Bill. Every year there is the option to change clause 20 and uprate the frozen pensions of expats but there does seem to be the political will in the House to do so, MP's seem happy to leave things as they are and have been since 1955 when frozen pensions started. Although there seems to be a lot of sympathy in the press the powers that be just ignore it, UK pensioners seem happy to not support it but accept that its ok in the EU and if another 500,000 suddenly got their frozen pension upgraded it would affect the UK pensioners pension pot, funny how people see different sides to these things.

Going back over the pages you would have seen all your points aired, we do not use the services and in return we get our pensions frozen and if we were to go back and you need to use the NHS its charged at cost plus 50% and that's on top of having to still pay tax to HMRC direct and indirect ( if you fly back you will have to pay Passenger duty amongst other things.).

Thanks for this. I couldn't find "clause 20 of the pension bill", maybe I missed the relevance of the wording.

I am not clear about the reciprocal point. Not all expat pensions are frozen. Why is that? It seems to be US-influenced. 

[billzant]

2 hours ago, Swimman said:

There is a 'Frozen Pension" lobby group  http://pensionjustice.org/

I follow them on twitter @pensionjustice

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Its in everyone's interest to sign up to CABP/BPiA but sadly too many are content to sit back and let others do the lobbying. I want this sorted by the time I reach state pension age therefore am a member of both.

Unfortunately, it has been sorted out already and the government won.  I believe the ruling said that the government was within its rights to deny yearly increases because the expats were no longer involved in the UK economy- spending money and paying taxes. Sadly, the campaigners were so cock-sure of their case that I think they also wanted back payments.  They chose the wrong strategy in my view.

 

So that's that!

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Unfortunately, it has been sorted out already and the government won.  I believe the ruling said that the government was within its rights to deny yearly increases because the expats were no longer involved in the UK economy- spending money and paying taxes. Sadly, the campaigners were so cock-sure of their case that I think they also wanted back payments.  They chose the wrong strategy in my view.

 

So that's that!

 

Their 'no new agreements since 1981' has or will be knocked into a cocked hat if claimants living in the EU continue to be 'alright jack' after Brexit.

 

None have given a sh1t about the rest of the world to date. The very least we should hope is that they're dumped kicking and screaming onto the 'frozen' ranks if common sence isn't forthcoming for everyone by the time we leave.

[maxcorrigan]

I have not read all the replies here, too many for my 80 year old eyes to squint through, but has anyone got any info on marriage allowance that ceases apparently in 2020, will any shortfall for minimum pension be made up here in LOS! sorry if this has already been brought earlier.