UK pensions

[denby45]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I think it was about 30 years ago they introduced the option to contract out. This was the first time as far as I can remember there was any significant information put out regarding the state pension. Prior to that you had to do what they said.

People are much better informed these days and find it very easy to criticise

Well said sandy. I had no clue what I was doing at the time. Listened to the circling pension vultures in a feeding frenzy, after their commissions was a huge mistake. No one told me for the first few years you are actually paying off the commissions of the agents that sold you the plan. He must have forgotten to tell me that bit during his sales pitch. Then year after year the letter stating sorry but we did not do well enough to pay any bonus this year. I still have the original projection figures letters in my files. I should be a rich man today. Lies lies lies and more lies. Young and foolish I was and now I am old and foolish so it's even worse.

 

The contracting out part however was more like 40 years ago rather than 30.

 

Den   

[sandyf]

19 minutes ago, denby45 said:

 

The contracting out part however was more like 40 years ago rather than 30.

 

Den   

I think you are referring to contracting out by employers. I think individuals came with the 1986 Social security act. It was few years before it became widely published and they said 45 was the cut-off for men, I was early forties at the time and just stayed with serps.

[denby45]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I think you are referring to contracting out by employers. I think individuals came with the 1986 Social security act. It was few years before it became widely published and they said 45 was the cut-off for men, I was early forties at the time and just stayed with serps.

I am not sure what you mean by employers and individuals. You are obviously more clued up than I because like I said I really didn't have much of a clue in those days so had to take others advice what was best for me. However what I do know is that I (as and individual) contracted out of serps in 1978 which is 40 years ago.

 

Den

[Henryford]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is utter rubbish. Expats pay income tax and income tax and income tax is used to fund the state pension.

You think it's fair that expats that fund the state pension scheme to the same extent as UK residents are not entitled to the same level of benefit.

 

VAT is a side issue, any reduction in consumer spending would be more than offset by non use of services they are paying for with their income tax.

Yes as an expat i am still paying income tax on my occupational pension and my state pension. Plus i make no use of the NHS or other state funded services so it's not unreasonable that i get a small inflation increase.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, denby45 said:

I am not sure what you mean by employers and individuals. You are obviously more clued up than I because like I said I really didn't have much of a clue in those days so had to take others advice what was best for me. However what I do know is that I (as and individual) contracted out of serps in 1978 which is 40 years ago.

 

Den

Yes it was 1978 when you could be contracted out of Serps and part of your NI went into your occupational pension scheme. It was some years later that those not in an occupational pension scheme could contract out of Serps and have part of their NI credited to a private pension scheme.

Other than my time in the RAF, I was never in an occupational pension scheme and by the time they made it compulsory for small companies to provide some form of pension scheme I had become self employed.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, denby45 said:

Well said sandy. I had no clue what I was doing at the time. Listened to the circling pension vultures in a feeding frenzy, after their commissions was a huge mistake. No one told me for the first few years you are actually paying off the commissions of the agents that sold you the plan. He must have forgotten to tell me that bit during his sales pitch. Then year after year the letter stating sorry but we did not do well enough to pay any bonus this year. I still have the original projection figures letters in my files. I should be a rich man today. Lies lies lies and more lies. Young and foolish I was and now I am old and foolish so it's even worse.

 

The contracting out part however was more like 40 years ago rather than 30.

 

Den   

And 40 years on little has changed.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/fca-pensions-scandal-advice-retirement-savings-accounts-fees-a8274781.html

[altcar bob]

Serps topped the OAP up a considerable degree,something like one third to a half.

[altcar bob]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

The UK government would go into meltdown if we all moved back to the UK, current net immigration figures would pale into insignificance

Do not need to move to USA ,accommodation address Spain (or anywhere in EU) or unfrozen will do,,Something like 2 gbp a month for starters,in fact free for a big chunk out of the year     Hablas un poco,need to brush up on that too

[nong38]

Worth having a look at thisismoney.co.uk today, there is an article about online tax accounts, so you can check if you are on the right tax codes. Open the account on line and you can check it out as HMRC is making you responsible for checking. 

Looking through it it looks like you are giving them information they do not have and you need to think if its worth giving them your email/telephone info. HMRC and HMG are the same how much do they need to know? 

With your phone they know where you are, also with your email.

On the pre text of money laundering or terrorism they can access your bank accounts.

Your privacy is not as private as you might like to think and that's without all the cameras watching what you are up to so think before you sign up.

[altcar bob]

50 minutes ago, nong38 said:

With your phone they know where you are, also with your email.

On the pre text of money laundering or terrorism they can access your bank accounts.

Your privacy is not as private as you might like to think and that's without all the cameras watching what you are up to so think before you sign up.

Not exactly Big Brother watching Percy the Pensioner   Not interested in the remotest...but agree  give them the information they need and may use it..however Skype  VPN  P2P    not interested,not punishable,just if you are still alive,thats it

[denby45]

20 hours ago, sandyf said:

Yes it was 1978 when you could be contracted out of Serps and part of your NI went into your occupational pension scheme. It was some years later that those not in an occupational pension scheme could contract out of Serps and have part of their NI credited to a private pension scheme.

Other than my time in the RAF, I was never in an occupational pension scheme and by the time they made it compulsory for small companies to provide some form of pension scheme I had become self employed.

Sorry to correct again, I only know what happened in my case. The part of NI contributions you talk about went straight into a personal pension scheme which I took out with AMP.  That was in 1978 as I stated earlier. I was never part of any occupational pension scheme. I still have that original PPP along with 2 others I took out later with Pearl and L&G. The three of them added together will just about get me enough for a good night out. No, I am joking of course but not one of them has performed over the years and certainly will not provide enough to live on. It is a good job I saved and invested in other areas. The smaller 2 of the 3 pensions I am busy cashing out now because they are hardly worth the bother. The original AMP one is a slightly different story because I have a guaranteed annuity sum which is very high compared to today's pittances. Although it will not be anywhere near what I need to live, it will help supplement my State pension and other investments (bonds, dividends, interest and rental income).

 

Den

[p414]

On 3/27/2018 at 3:55 AM, sandyf said:

I think it was about 30 years ago they introduced the option to contract out. This was the first time as far as I can remember there was any significant information put out regarding the state pension. Prior to that you had to do what they said.

People are much better informed these days and find it very easy to criticise

The option to 'contract' out did not allow anyone to have the fake 'employers contribution' paid into any pension scheme the opted out people chose instead of the government scam..As

 the worker was the one 'earning' the employers contribution this should have been at least placed into a pension pot for them.The government still got the employers part even after opting out.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, denby45 said:

Sorry to correct again, I only know what happened in my case. The part of NI contributions you talk about went straight into a personal pension scheme which I took out with AMP.  That was in 1978 as I stated earlier. I was never part of any occupational pension scheme. I still have that original PPP along with 2 others I took out later with Pearl and L&G. The three of them added together will just about get me enough for a good night out. No, I am joking of course but not one of them has performed over the years and certainly will not provide enough to live on. It is a good job I saved and invested in other areas. The smaller 2 of the 3 pensions I am busy cashing out now because they are hardly worth the bother. The original AMP one is a slightly different story because I have a guaranteed annuity sum which is very high compared to today's pittances. Although it will not be anywhere near what I need to live, it will help supplement my State pension and other investments (bonds, dividends, interest and rental income).

 

Den

Have to agree to differ on that one, cannot find anything definitive other than this paragraph in a blog.

"How many of you can remember the start of contracting out via a personal pension? Introduced back in 1988, this was the first time an individual paying full National Insurance contributions could opt out of the-then State Earnings Related Pension Scheme (SERPS) other than via a company scheme."

 

In 1983 I took out a private pension with L & G and at that point in time I could not come out of Serps. Entirely agree with your comment on returns, I made my L & G paid up when the returns made it a waste of time paying any more in.

 

I am not particularly familiar with occupational schemes but I know they come in different formats. I said I was never in one which is not entirely true. When I was self employed in 2003 I was struggling for work and took a job with a software reseller in Hinckley. After 6 months I had to join the company pension scheme, no option, that one was more like a group scheme rather than a proper company pension. A guy came along and gave the sales pitch and employees were effectively signed up to an personal pension scheme. Six months down the road I was made redundant and I got all premiums back immediately under Inland Revenue Triviality rules. Did ok, got a good bit more back than I had paid in.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

8 hours ago, denby45 said:

Sorry to correct again, I only know what happened in my case. The part of NI contributions you talk about went straight into a personal pension scheme which I took out with AMP.  That was in 1978 as I stated earlier. I was never part of any occupational pension scheme. I still have that original PPP along with 2 others I took out later with Pearl and L&G. The three of them added together will just about get me enough for a good night out. No, I am joking of course but not one of them has performed over the years and certainly will not provide enough to live on. It is a good job I saved and invested in other areas. The smaller 2 of the 3 pensions I am busy cashing out now because they are hardly worth the bother. The original AMP one is a slightly different story because I have a guaranteed annuity sum which is very high compared to today's pittances. Although it will not be anywhere near what I need to live, it will help supplement my State pension and other investments (bonds, dividends, interest and rental income).

 

Den

I suspect that many pension providers cursed the day they started to include guarantee annuity rates in pensions contracts. When I was looking to buy an annuity with my private pension fund the offers I received were less than half what the guaranteed annuity option would pay out. Even quotes for an impaired annuity would't get near the GA Rate. These days you only see them in very old contracts and those that have already matured.

[nong38]

I don't know if anyone noticed in the Express today there was report on funding of care for the elderly and one "expert" said we should consider making people over 60 pay NI! He looked rather well to do and had probably made sure it did not affect him mind! The comments afterwards were illuminating mainly centered around.........."if you had not let 3 million immigrants into the country and then allowed 1.5 million of them not to work we would not be in this position!" etc etc, if you find it its worth a read.

[altcar bob]

51 minutes ago, nong38 said:

I don't know if anyone noticed in the Express today there was report on funding of care for the elderly and one "expert" said we should consider making people over 60 pay NI! He looked rather well to do and had probably made sure it did not affect him mind! The comments afterwards were illuminating mainly centered around.........."if you had not let 3 million immigrants into the country and then allowed 1.5 million of them not to work we would not be in this position!" etc etc, if you find it its worth a read.

Ian Duncan Smith has stated recently that EU migrants living in the UK cost the  UK tax payer  4 billion pounds per year

[Oxx]

16 minutes ago, altcar bob said:

Ian Duncan Smith has stated recently that EU migrants living in the UK cost the  UK tax payer  4 billion pounds per year

 

Utter pollocks.  What he said (whether it's true or not) is that EU migrants claimed more than £4bn a year in benefits.  However, they also pay income tax, national insurance, VAT, and possibly other taxes.  The net cost to the UK tax payer is significantly less than 4 billion.

 

Source:  https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/

[nontabury]

9 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Utter pollocks.  What he said (whether it's true or not) is that EU migrants claimed more than £4bn a year in benefits.  However, they also pay income tax, national insurance, VAT, and possibly other taxes.  The net cost to the UK tax payer is significantly less than 4 billion.

 

Source:  https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/

So whole disputing his figure, you do agree that these immigrants do in fact cost the British tax payer money.

[partington]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

So whole disputing his figure, you do agree that these immigrants do in fact cost the British tax payer money.

I can guarantee they cost less money to the British taxpayer than British people do.

[altcar bob]

46 minutes ago, partington said:

I can guarantee they cost less money to the British taxpayer than British people do.

You would not be believing that statement if watching the series 'Don't Pay,we'll take it Away'   (you Tube)   Rumanian/Polish/ immigrants from wherever families 7 deep,  freebies all,getting slung out on the streets by bailiffs,rent arrears going back years

[transam]

3 minutes ago, altcar bob said:

You would not be believing that statement if watching the series 'Don't Pay,we'll take it Away'   (you Tube)   Rumanian/Polish/ immigrants from wherever families 7 deep,  freebies all,getting slung out on the streets by bailiffs,rent arrears going back years

Been watching a UK TV series on YouTube, UK Border Force...What an eye opener to what it is costing the UK. The tax payer is even paying for regular charter flights to repatriate naughty folk...

[vogie]

1 hour ago, partington said:

I can guarantee they cost less money to the British taxpayer than British people do.

And that makes it right then? Could you expand a little on that bombshell?

[altcar bob]

Just now, vogie said:

And that makes it right then? Could you expand a little on that bombshell?

Suppose you could say he is right,because more of 'us' than of 'them'  but but but  proportionally they are whacking the taxpayer far far more than the average Brit with 1.4 births than 7 8 9  even more sprogs in tow

[vogie]

1 minute ago, altcar bob said:

Suppose you could say he is right,because more of 'us' than of 'them'  but but but  proportionally they are whacking the taxpayer far far more than the average Brit with 1.4 births than 7 8 9  even more sprogs in tow

But the statement is very vague and I don't know if he is just generalising, does he mean people who have never worked, he needs to be more transparent.

[bert bloggs]

3 hours ago, partington said:

I can guarantee they cost less money to the British taxpayer than British people do.

Well you said it ,British people , why should we subsadise others?

[transam]

3 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Well you said it ,British people , why should we subsadise others?

Correct, which brings me back to the thought the UK will not upgrade my pension in LOS, after l paid in what was asked of me, yet LOS folk in the UK can get payouts when they paid sod all into the system..

[altcar bob]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Correct, which brings me back to the thought the UK will not upgrade my pension in LOS, after l paid in what was asked of me, yet LOS folk in the UK can get payouts when they paid sod all into the system..

The immigrants know the system inside out,or they thought they did until Universal Credit came along,same-same pension credits too,only when high court enforcement is involved that cuts through pro-longed red tape do matters come to an instant conclusion  ie  one hour to get out...upgrading pensions in LOS will never happen,   up to you

[evadgib]

5 hours ago, altcar bob said:

You would not be believing that statement if watching the series 'Don't Pay,we'll take it Away'   (you Tube)   Rumanian/Polish/ immigrants from wherever families 7 deep,  freebies all,getting slung out on the streets by bailiffs,rent arrears going back years

Several of their bailiffs have been exposed as criminals in their own right as you'll also see on YT or FB without looking too hard but I guess that's another topic.

[nontabury]

7 hours ago, partington said:

I can guarantee they cost less money to the British taxpayer than British people do.

You cannot guarantee anything, so please stop making such ridiculous statements.

The vast majority of British people are law abiding, tax payers. And While it’s true that many immigrants are also law abiding,tax payers, unfortunately many immigrants Can and do take advantage of the system to their advantage. But the question you should be asking, who put the system in place, which sometimes includes exceptions to the rules that govern British citizens, thus allowing them to take advantage.

 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, partington said:

I can guarantee they cost less money to the British taxpayer than British people do.

I do not believe that at all.