Lending To Farmers

[andycrosby]

If i was you I would mind my words "without cheating the poor" who do you think your are...?

IM IN BKK IN A FEW DAYS TIME IF YOU WANT TO EXPLANE IN THE CAR PARK of your hotel.

your loaning money but its ok because your charging 3 % and now my 2 mil is chicken feed. I never told you that to brag unlike you ,I told you the facts, and the truth.

no need to post back unless its for a meeting

[andycrosby]

Livinginexile

so you have grassed everyone up on here what a great man you are... words can not tell you what I think of you... I also hope you get what you deserve as well ,

ARE YOU LIVING IN EXILE BECAUSE YOU GRASSED EVERYONE UP BACK HOME AS WELL ?

WELL DONE MATE , WELL DONE

[IsaanAussie]

Hey, hold the phone here people. I could be cut loose from the forum for this but this is bullshit. I know or have read items from most of the players in this and things are way out of control here. If I had the money and the inclination, also informed the lender of the terms as he does, who are any of us to say Andy is wrong? Get a life guys, Thai banks may accept default loans for whatever reason but anyone out there tell me you could get away with this rubbish wherever you come from. Tell me phonetically in English what the Thai word for insolvent is. Tell me that the task of a bank or any financial institution isn't to make money. Banks grow money, I grow pigs.

If there is any "intervention" as a result of this thread, than let all know this, I will be standing at Andy's right arm. Bring it on! I am pissed off.

[somo]

Lending money with the express intention of exploiting the poor and uneducated is indefensible. Andy seems to get his kicks not so much from the interest he receives but from hurting people, making themhomeless and taking the last of their possesions. He seems to be a sociopath and in need of help.

Khonwan, I hope you reconsider leaving the forum as you have contributed a lot and would be missed. It also seems the wrong reaction as it is not the forum at fault just one of it's members

[IsaanAussie]

Guys,

Khowan, you would be a sad loss to this forum as Somo says. I ask you to reconsideras well.

I ask everyone to reread this entire thread, I believe that there has been some over reactions to what was actually written. Andy may have an abrasive aire at times but I see him as acting within his rights under his agreements. We, some or all, may not share that view or take such actions but it does not mean it is wrong, just perhaps harsh. We are not involved in his actions and do not know the backgrounds. I know if I had taken a stronger stance in many dealings throughout my life, I would be better off financially. My wife says I'm too soft, and that is saying something as she is the most kind hearted person I have ever met.

I am not agreeing with or defending Andy's methods or morals, but I will defend his right to do it his way. Lets get back to the topic and put personal differences of opinion to one side.

The whole issue of lending money under non-formal conditions is contestable under Thai law as it is and those labelled as doing so are generally frowned upon without any consideration if they are "good guys" or not. There have been attempts by the government to stop it and to replace it with formal bank loans. Yet like the local lotteries it persists as the only vehicle open to many people. Educated or not these people have all seen the best and the worst of outcomes of these loans. No-one is being taken advantage of here.

This topic has been reduced to opinions on whether a lender has the right to take action under a signed loan agreement or not. If you have no intention to act than why form an agreement including those terms? If you have enough money to be infinitely patient then good for you.

[RedBullHorn]

Somo where did I say 15% Pa ???? start at 6 % per month next month 8% , 10% 12% 14% 15% after one year it is compound

so if there loan is not paid by 6 months the interest is 65% if it takes a year it is 140% that at the end of the year is now compound so if your loan was 100k you now ow me 240k

At this point I normally take the property still confused ????????

Tony you are a friend and a good man your words sumed it up " He walked away smiling " I would be driving round on a new motorbike

one last thing to remember people when your skint and on the plane home there are only 1% of farang that make money here I do not have any outside income Ive been here 15 years and Im worth more every year can anyone else say the same ?

Andy, how do you go around the transfer of names on the Chanote when it's compounded, would they agreed to sign it over at the land office ? It cost money to tranfer land deed too...

Edited March 23, 2012 by RedBullHorn

[andycrosby]

Redbullhorn I have lots of respect for you mate, but I think I do not now wish to answer anything else on this thread the sooner it drops off the edge the better for all concerned , On the last note Ill debate anything with anyone but will not put up with personal attacks.

[Livinginexile]

Livinginexile

so you have grassed everyone up on here what a great man you are... words can not tell you what I think of you... I also hope you get what you deserve as well ,

ARE YOU LIVING IN EXILE BECAUSE YOU GRASSED EVERYONE UP BACK HOME AS WELL ?

WELL DONE MATE , WELL DONE

Settle down Andy...save some of your agression for the debt defaulters

My post was clearly suporting you! I think you are doing a great job of lending to poor third world country villagers and then taking all their posessions. I really do.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Livinginexile

[andycrosby]

It apears now you can say what you want to people on a public forum which I thought was against the rules ?

It would apear I am a pathetic prat.who is also a sociopath ,I do not think you know the true meaning but things get a little fuzzy at 61 dont they. Also Ive been called a theif wow i can not tell you how that makes me feel Thank you to you all

I am overwhelmed by the phone calls Tony, JJ , Mike, wolf, Adam thank you everyone for the support , those who know me, know im brash, but always more than fair, and honest about what I write

If you dont want the truth dont ask me as everyone will tell you I give it to you stright

I now know why most people choose to not post on here, not just because of the non farming Know it alls, or the nay saying trolls from under the bridge ready to pounce at any time. but because of a pure tunnel vision from people who live in glass houses, nothing is just black or white.

All this because I have loaned gamblers and drunks money sometimes no knowing if the bank already has title.

Those of you that know there is another path and those people shoot there non payers, High risk high reward is all what we have been doing nothing aganst the law all done on paperwork brought from a govenment office Ive never made anyone homeless and nor would I, but I have taken some odd things as payment

SO YOU WHO IS WITHOUT SIN MAY CAST THE FIRST STONE

I am a govenment teacher trying to make sure his family have all they need when I go from this world. Not like some on here that are livinginexile from there phidophile crimes, and I take my hat of to all of you that are the true farmers on here having a bloody good go

On that note I like my new best friend will also leave this forum to the dogs, and trolls, you know where to find me..

yours

The Sheriff of Nottingham

[RedBullHorn]

Redbullhorn I have lots of respect for you mate, but I think I do not now wish to answer anything else on this thread the sooner it drops off the edge the better for all concerned , On the last note Ill debate anything with anyone but will not put up with personal attacks.

No don't get me wrong mate, i'm on track to lending...one of the uncle-in-law wanted a loan of 100K (i plan to charge 36% PA), "One of his many chanote" is worth 400K, like you i wish that he'd default so i could compound his land and become mine, but i'd like to know, are they willing to sign the transfer over once it is defaulted, did you face any difficulty on the transfer issue ?

On the hind sight, i just qualified for a housing loan from a bank, the tv ad said it's as easy as 1-2-3, yeah right, i went through hell of paperwork just to get approved.

Imagine desperate villagers with less or not qualify, who do they turn to for a loan (quick loan i mean, banks take about 2 months to process loan) ? Don't like the terms and conditions then don't borrow...Banks or lenders illegal or not, still need collateral, money don't grow on trees...negotiate negotiate negotiate...

Andy my friend, i still need the answer, if it's not convenient, could you please PM me...Thanks mate.

Edited March 23, 2012 by RedBullHorn

[Mark1971]

I have found the Farming in Thailand forum to be the most informative & interesting on Thai Visa.

The members are very generous in sharing their valuable knowledge, including those who have posted on this thread.

This thread is dealing with a very emotive issue, which is illegal for Thais, let alone Farang.

If people want to make illegal loans, it is probably best not discussed on an open forum with strangers.

I think it would be a good thing for this forum if the mods closed & deleted this thread.

[ozzydom]

Am in complete agreeance with Mark 1971 , This thread and many of the posts within would appear to be in violation of Thaivisa forum rules and should be closed and deleted.

Guys, lets stick to the format of friendly and helpful discussion of all things farming and leave contencius ,morally and legally questionable threads to other forums.

cheers

dom

[theblether]

To think that the OP had the cheek to say that he would get more sensible replies here than on the General Forum?

sheeeez........it's been an education reading this,

[smokie36]

To think that the OP had the cheek to say that he would get more sensible replies here than on the General Forum?

sheeeez........it's been an education reading this,

Sadly for me I was already aware of the depths some Westerners will sink to in order to maintain their presence here. Take note!!

[grimleybob]

I think pawnbrokers charge around 2% per month – are they also loan sharks?

Wouldn't you make more money by farming rented land? I would.

Pawnbrokers cannot lose. Totally different. They take the asset in advance, only loan about 40% of re-sale value and charge interest which has to be discharged in full before the asset is returned.

Would pawnbroking be a legal way to lend money in Thailand?

Edited March 27, 2012 by grimleybob

[IsaanAussie]

I think pawnbrokers charge around 2% per month – are they also loan sharks?

Wouldn't you make more money by farming rented land? I would.

Pawnbrokers cannot lose. Totally different. They take the asset in advance, only loan about 40% of re-sale value and charge interest which has to be discharged in full before the asset is returned.

Would pawnbroking be a legal way to lend money in Thailand?

Would be and is my son. Charge about 10% for a 4 month loan. Then pay up or the gold is gone

[RedBullHorn]

When i was in financial trouble 10 year ago, my wife pawned all 60 Baht of her gold jewelries (that i bought for her) to bail me out, couldn't afford to keep up with the montly interest payment, lost it all... A few years later, all was well, my wife ask me to buy her the gold that was lost...

"80 Baht of gold you owed me" she said

"Huh !?!! I remembered it was 60..." (me)

"...plus interest~ " she smiled

Edited March 28, 2012 by RedBullHorn

[somo]

Nice story in that it ends well but also says a lot.

Thais (when they like/love you) can be wonderfully generous and loyal when times are hard.

We all hear stories of farangs being left/ripped off by their wives but that is usually

because the farang is stupid and deserves it.

Show them a little "interest" and all will be well.

[Bluetongue]

I have been offered land to rent and some I have accepted some I have not, the first plot I rented for 5 years on the verbal and against my better judgement paid up front. I have since learned that the normal practice seems to be one half up front and the rest later. It wasn't a problem though as I recovered all the 5 years rent plus one years expenses on the first year. I cant consider loaning money when I have poor people offering me to rent their land and I have to have capital to work it. Once I rent land I try hard to maximise return, I see other people with similar plots who take more of a manyana approach and reap what they sow. I have no other income yet so have to be a bit cautious with dough.

Obviously I can see this subject is controversial but I would stress to all parties that the extremes at either end are usually that and most people on this forum probably sit well within. Not sure if that is any comfort to the OP but he did ask.

[somo]

I have been offered land to rent and some I have accepted some I have not, the first plot I rented for 5 years on the verbal and against my better judgement paid up front. I have since learned that the normal practice seems to be one half up front and the rest later. It wasn't a problem though as I recovered all the 5 years rent plus one years expenses on the first year. I cant consider loaning money when I have poor people offering me to rent their land and I have to have capital to work it. Once I rent land I try hard to maximise return, I see other people with similar plots who take more of a manyana approach and reap what they sow. I have no other income yet so have to be a bit cautious with dough.

Obviously I can see this subject is controversial but I would stress to all parties that the extremes at either end are usually that and most people on this forum probably sit well within. Not sure if that is any comfort to the OP but he did ask.

So all you are saying is that you make more money out of renting poor peoples land rather than lending them the money so they can work it themselves. I think that is fairly well known.

[Bluetongue]

I have been offered land to rent and some I have accepted some I have not, the first plot I rented for 5 years on the verbal and against my better judgement paid up front. I have since learned that the normal practice seems to be one half up front and the rest later. It wasn't a problem though as I recovered all the 5 years rent plus one years expenses on the first year. I cant consider loaning money when I have poor people offering me to rent their land and I have to have capital to work it. Once I rent land I try hard to maximise return, I see other people with similar plots who take more of a manyana approach and reap what they sow. I have no other income yet so have to be a bit cautious with dough.

Obviously I can see this subject is controversial but I would stress to all parties that the extremes at either end are usually that and most people on this forum probably sit well within. Not sure if that is any comfort to the OP but he did ask.

So all you are saying is that you make more money out of renting poor peoples land rather than lending them the money so they can work it themselves. I think that is fairly well known.

Those people that have sought loans from me haven't done so to work their land. Do you think I should approach people with unworked land and offer to lend them money. People whose land I have rented may be poor but the point is they are doing something else whether it be playing cards or working in another job. You extrapolated a comparison about making different amounts of money that I did not.

[andycrosby]

Somo I only see negative things on everything you post ? Do you do any farming ? Is waiting for god that bad that you can not turn round on one of your posts and write something nice for a change or contribute in a positive way instead of your many one word boo posts.

The only other thing it could be are you trying to get your post numbers up ?

you should go to the forum rules and look up what a troll is the comparison is remakable.

[somo]

Somo I only see negative things on everything you post ? Do you do any farming ? Is waiting for god that bad that you can not turn round on one of your posts and write something nice for a change or contribute in a positive way instead of your many one word boo posts.

The only other thing it could be are you trying to get your post numbers up ?

you should go to the forum rules and look up what a troll is the comparison is remakable.

Another classic from andy. Perhaps it would be a good idea if you kept your posts shorter and didn't waste words insulting people or challenging them to fights

[andycrosby]

you should try a happy pill, insulting people your not that person ?

challenging them to fights ? I have Never challenged anyone to a fight on here I am more the debating type

I am how ever challenging you to a positive responce once in a while

Having said that I did see one post you made today on the price of a rai and it was very well thought out for a change I have to say well done

keep up the good work.

[andycrosby]

If it was for a fight it would say come tooled up youl need it , but it was for a chin wag why would I go and beat an OAP up.. Now if there is anything else you are more than welcome to send me a PM as I think this is not the place for a slanging match

[Gary A]

My Thai wife has a number of loans out. She got into loaning money by accident. A friend of hers had a loan secured with her land. She was paying 8 percent a month interest. She was about to lose her land when my wife decided to pay off the loan shark and retrieve the land paper.

I was more than a little worried about my wife getting involved with a loan shark. I told her that the shark would not be happy with her taking rice out of his feed bowl. She obviously wasn't concerned with any threat. She told me that she too has some unsavory friends who could deal with any problem like that.

To make that long story short, she loaned the money at 3 percent per month and eventually the lady paid her back and was able to keep her land. My wife now has two rather sizable loans out now where she actually bought the land but allows them to continue farming the land. She has explained to them that she doesn't want the land but she does want her interest and her money back. This has given the owners time to sell the land if they can't pay off their loan and in that way pay off my wife and she will transfer the land to the original or new owner.

She has calls nearly everyday from people wanting to borrow money but her funds are quite limited and I much prefer to stay out of her business. My wife works very hard farming her own 20 rai and what she makes off that land belongs to her. I DID buy the original two ten rai plots for her.

[somo]

My Thai wife has a number of loans out. She got into loaning money by accident. A friend of hers had a loan secured with her land. She was paying 8 percent a month interest. She was about to lose her land when my wife decided to pay off the loan shark and retrieve the land paper.

I was more than a little worried about my wife getting involved with a loan shark. I told her that the shark would not be happy with her taking rice out of his feed bowl. She obviously wasn't concerned with any threat. She told me that she too has some unsavory friends who could deal with any problem like that.

To make that long story short, she loaned the money at 3 percent per month and eventually the lady paid her back and was able to keep her land. My wife now has two rather sizable loans out now where she actually bought the land but allows them to continue farming the land. She has explained to them that she doesn't want the land but she does want her interest and her money back. This has given the owners time to sell the land if they can't pay off their loan and in that way pay off my wife and she will transfer the land to the original or new owner.

She has calls nearly everyday from people wanting to borrow money but her funds are quite limited and I much prefer to stay out of her business. My wife works very hard farming her own 20 rai and what she makes off that land belongs to her. I DID buy the original two ten rai plots for her.

Very similar to my story. The essence of any ethical transaction is that is should benefit both parties if possible. The world doesn't have to be made up of winners and losers if we focus on mutual benefits. A bonus is that it also makes you feel good if you can see the positive results for others as well as yourself.

[andycrosby]

One of the best books ever writen was by George Orwell called Animal Farm it was all about communism and how it does not work.

[somo]

Fascinating but except for the book title I am struggling to understand the relevance to this discussion.

Perhaps you are trying a bit more name calling or trying to politicise things. Maybe your chickens are ganging up on you?

If you have one called Napoleon watch out.

[andycrosby]

Not at all I was not name calling just putting my point of view across that the commy way of thinking is great untill it is put in to practice. I for one think money makes the world go round and I would never lend money if the odds were stacked against me ever seeing it again, However I see you have a story , so I for one would like to here it please and I am not taking the piss. If you have time to put it in to a post I would be greatfull