Charles Schwab Atm Account?

[dddave]

I'm being killed by ATM fee's. I'm in the USA right now and want to set up a better account. I Have friends in Thailand who have Charles Schwab accounts and they have said that most of the ATM fees are absorbed by Schwab.

Anybody who has a Schwab care to comment: pro or con??

[mairuu]

Pro.

There has been quite a bit of discussion on this forum about this.

Here are a couple of threads from last year:

http://www.thaivisa....__fromsearch__1

http://www.thaivisa...._1#entry4858673

The rebates only apply to the "convenience" fee charged for using another bank's ATM.

On the Schwab.com homepage, click on "Banking and Lending". On the page that takes you to, click on "Learn more about High Yield Investor Checking". That might be the best way to see what it is about.

[Sateev]

Unfortunately, the general trend is for more fees. Charles Schwab is great, and they do absorb the typically 150 baht fees at ATMs in Thailand. I do worry, though, that as fees increase around the world, they may no longer be able to offer this service. I and another friend use it sparingly, like tiptoeing on eggshells, for fear it will be perceived as overuse, and withdrawn. Completely irrational, of course, but born of the fear that Schwab may one day say, "No more mister Nice Guy!"...

If you can plan ahead, you can always use Aeon ATMS, which can be found in most malls and supermarkets, and is zero-fee. Or, open a Thai bank account in the province where you spend most of your time, and set up transfers from your home bank. If you're based in the US, use ACH, it's very convenient, and cheap. If not, SWIFT some cash in before you arrive.

On the whole, Schwab has been the best banking experience I have ever had, and it's not limited to ATMs. They jumped through a lot of hoops to get my business, and allow me to stay in Thailand hassle-free.

Recommended.

[Pib]

I have Schwab Bank and State Farm Bank debit cards; neither charge a foreign transaction fee and both reimburse for ATM fees. However, I don't use Thai bank ATMs to withdraw money from my Schwab or State Farm accounts unless I absolutely have to since I have access to AEON ATMs which do not charge the 150 baht fee and I don't want to help cook the golden goose in causing unnecessary charges to my banks. I use my State Farm account the most since they pay a little better interest on accounts than Schwab.

[calbts2]

Likewise, unlike other major US banks(Citibank, Chase, US Bank, etc. ) that keep getting worse with more checking fees and foreign exchange charges,Schwab keeps getting better. I have been a client for almost 20 years. They used to charge fees back in the 1990's. But then they wised up and realized they were pissing off clients with the meddling fees. So they eliminated them and are now very good. Great customer service too. They even sent my new ATM card to Thailand by fedex free of charge. I also stick to AEON atms as I also do not want the Thai Bankers extortion 150 baht fee to be paid by Schwab. Too bad the other big US banks cannot take a hint from Schwab.

Edited March 17, 2012 by calbts2

[el jefe]

I use my Schwab card all over the world.

Great customer service. All pro, no cons.

I try to use AEON machines anyway as others have said but it rarely works for me. Either the lines are too long (20 minutes plus), the machines are out of order, or AEON rejects my Schwab card. AEON is the only ATM that has unexplainably rejected my card more than once.

[Pib]

At the three AEON ATMs I use frequently (two in western Bangkok..one in a Lotus and one in a Big C ) and one in Nakhon Pathom (in a Big C) there is rarely a line and only two times have I went to an AEON ATM where it said out of order/out of cash...I can't say that for Thai bank ATMs which get used more. It's probably just boils down to location of the ATM because ever time I have went to Sizzlers at Central Rama II, I can see an AEON ATM and there is always a line at it...but it's also in a high people traffic movie theater/games/bowling area....guess folks are getting cash to see a movie/play a game. I just feel lucky to have fairly easy access to AEON ATMs which ain't the case for most folks in Thailand. Cheers.

[vagabond48]

I use my Schwab card all over the world.

Great customer service. All pro, no cons.

I try to use AEON machines anyway as others have said but it rarely works for me. Either the lines are too long (20 minutes plus), the machines are out of order, or AEON rejects my Schwab card. AEON is the only ATM that has unexplainably rejected my card more than once.

That is odd. I use my Schwab checking DC at Airport Plaza without a problem.

[calbts2]

The worst times to use AEON machines are the last day and first day of the month. All of the Thai AEON customers use the machines to pay their credit card bills. Rest of the month it is not too bad. Never had my card rejected but did have some malfunctioning AEON atms a few years ago when the money did not come out. Called Schwab in the US and they credited my account and after the investigation - the ATM balance records showed the malfunction. For awhile I was taking video of my ATM transactions to prove that the money did not come out if it were to happen again. Thankfully it has not.

[el jefe]

I use my Schwab card all over the world.

Great customer service. All pro, no cons.

I try to use AEON machines anyway as others have said but it rarely works for me. Either the lines are too long (20 minutes plus), the machines are out of order, or AEON rejects my Schwab card. AEON is the only ATM that has unexplainably rejected my card more than once.

That is odd. I use my Schwab checking DC at Airport Plaza without a problem.

I only go to Airport Plaza 3 or 4 times a year and it's always a Sunday afternoon. I'm not waiting on line with 10 people in front of me just to save schwab 150 baht. I try to use my card at tesco (usually the one on the Superhiway) but it has been rejected there 2 or 3 times. Not a big deal. I'll just let Schwab pay the fee.

Now that we've derailed the thread about the advantages of a Schwab card, ....

[dddave]

Thanks for all the helpful responses on Charles Schwab; I will be opening an account with them this week.

Regarding AEON, I'm puzzled. I just checked my Bank of America statement last night.

Just before going to the USA two weeks ago, I had made a B15,000 withdrawal at a Suk. 71 Aeon ATM using my BoA card. There are TWO added charges: $5.00 "Bangkok fee" and $5.01 "Bangkok International transaction fee". That's $10.01 in ATM charges that I don't understand if Aeon indeed doesn't add additional charges. Maybe it is not as free as we think. I suggest you all check your statements and review your Aeon ATM transactions.

[Pib]

Thanks for all the helpful responses on Charles Schwab; I will be opening an account with them this week.

Regarding AEON, I'm puzzled. I just checked my Bank of America statement last night.

Just before going to the USA two weeks ago, I had made a B15,000 withdrawal at a Suk. 71 Aeon ATM using my BoA card. There are TWO added charges: $5.00 "Bangkok fee" and $5.01 "Bangkok International transaction fee". That's $10.01 in ATM charges that I don't understand if Aeon indeed doesn't add additional charges. Maybe it is not as free as we think. I suggest you all check your statements and review your Aeon ATM transactions.

Both fees were Bank of America fees; no AEON fees involved. There is a BoA $5 fee per transaction for use of an ATM outside the U.S. and then a BoA 1% foreign transaction fee on the amount withdrawn which would have been the $5.01 amount. Actually that 1% fee is the Visa/Mastercard foreign transaction fee but BoA don't absorb that fee...instead they pass it along to the customers where other banks (like Schwab) which provide no/zero % foreign transaction fee debit/credit cards absorb that 1% Visa/Mastercard foreign transaction fee. If you had withdrawn say 20,000 baht the two BoA fees would have been $5 plus approx $6.67 (assuming an exchange rate of 30 baht/1 USD. The BoA names given to the charges are intentionally misleading to imply the ATM/foreign bank made the charges; nope, both were BoA charges. Below is a quote from BoA web page regarding the fees.

What are the fees for using a debit card or ATM card in a foreign country?

Show Answer: What are the fees for using a debit card or ATM card in a foreign country?

Withdrawals, transfers, payments and balance inquiries made at ATMs in foreign countries outside the Global ATM Alliance, China Construction Bank, or Banco Santander will be charged a $5 Non-Bank of America International ATM fee.

In addition, an International Transaction Fee may be charged for ATM card and debit card transactions made for ATM cash withdrawals in currency other than U.S. dollars, regardless. The International Transaction Fee will be 1% of the U.S. dollar amount for each converted ATM cash withdrawal. This International Transaction Fee will appear as a separate item on your banking statement for each international transaction.

[JimGant]

If you had withdrawn say 20,000 baht the two BoA fees would have been $5 plus approx $6.67 (assuming an exchange rate of 30 baht/1 USD.

......and if you'd used a Chase ATM/Debit card, you would have paid: $5 flat fee, $20 foreign transaction fee (@3%), and another $5 if an Aeon machine is too inconvenient. Thirty bucks more than with a Schwab card! Definitely a no-brainer.

See the following for card cost comparisons:

http://www.flyerguid...oreign_Exchange

[dddave]

Thanks Pib for the clarification, I think it will soon be bye-bye BoA. It will be with some sentimental regret. My BoA account is part of a continuous account more than 50 years old that I opened with my first real job; Middlesex Co Natl. Bank which became Bay Bank Middlesex which became Bay Bank which became Bank Boston which became Fleet Bank which was swallowed by BoA....same account number all the way, lots of unused checkbooks.

Edited March 18, 2012 by dddave

[Pib]

dddave,

Glad I could help especially with this bank fee issue...in my humble opinion many financial businesses/banks have become fee-craving, extremely hungry wolfs at our doors. People indeed can become attached to certain businesses, their bank, their auto insurance, etc., but I can guarantee you that those businesses only see you as a source of income for their business no matter how customer friendly their web site, customer service reps sound...and they ain't going to give you any gold watch for being a loyal customer for 50 years....in fact, you probably won't get anything additional that a brand new customer wouldn't get...and with some promotions/special deals a new customer can get a better deal than a long time customer.

Some may think it's hard to switch banks but it really isn't especially with just a little planning mostly in switching over your BillPay, allotments, etc...that is, open the new bank account first, take a few months to switch over the BillPays, allotments, etc., then cancel the old bank account. I too have been a BoA customer for a long time, probably around 6-8 years and they served my basic banking needs just fine when I still lived in the States where foreign transaction fees were not an issue when getting money from the ATM, buying something at Walmart with my BoA debit/credit card.

But when a person's living location/lifestyle changes your bank of many years may no longer be the good deal; in fact, it may be a bad deal especially fee-wise. I still have a BoA checking account (at minimum level to avoid a monthly maintenance fee), and both a BoA debit and credit card (their credit card charges a 3% foreign transaction fee). Both cards now live in my safe (never used due to foreign transaction fees) and I just need to get off my butt soon and cancel my account and cards with them, because early last year I opened accounts with other U.S. banks where I got debit and/or credit cards which do not charge any fees for foreign transactions....I opened these accounts while living in Thailand and opening some of the accounts took some paperwork and phone calls, but I got them open. Occasionally when I do a big bucks transfer I get that ACH transfer completely free of any home country bank fee (compared to a $3 to $25 BoA external bank transfer fee). Now when I use my debit cards in a Thai bank ATM and get charged a 150 baht foreign card fee (which I really try to avoid by using an AEON ATM) I get reimbursed that fee and I don't get charged any fee(s) by my home country banks...and I now have a couple of U.S. credit cards that don't charge any foreign transaction fee(s) and one even gives me a 2% cash back on my Lotus, Big C, Foodland, fuel stations, etc., type buys...and I'm covered/protected under U.S. credit card customer protection laws compared to the practically non-existent Thai consumer protection laws. Opening up these new U.S. bank/credit card accounts would have been a lot faster/easier if I had opened them while still living in the U.S., but I still got them opened with some effort...mostly some mailings back and forth, a few calls to clear up new account questions they sometimes had, etc.

I would highly recommend to everyone who travels or plans to live overseas is to look at your current banks/debit & credit cards to see what "foreign transaction fees" they charge (if it ain't zero fees then switch) and what they charge for online funds transfers to other banks (if they don't have a free option then switch). And you may have to really dig around their web site to find the fee info...don't give up until you find the words which specially state what the fee is, none, $5, 1%, 3%, etc...seems some banks prefer placing that fee info in the fog, under the rug, etc. When living overseas one of the most frustrating things can be those foreign transaction/funds transfer fees by your home country bank that takes money to the tune of 1-5% out of your pocket and puts it in the bank's profit pocket....those 1-5% fees sure add up to some significant money...and I would much prefer that significant amount of money to end-up in my pocket versus the bank's pocket--they are already making plenty of profit in my humble opinion.

Cheers,

Pib

Now Foreign Transaction Fee Free

Edited March 19, 2012 by Pib

[BlueEasySleep]

Just another pro-Schwab post.

Love them.

Refund the ATM fees and don't charge any 1 or 2% foreign transaction fees.

[dddave]

dddave,

Glad I could help especially with this bank fee issue...in my humble opinion many financial businesses/banks have become fee-craving, extremely hungry wolfs at our doors. People indeed can become attached to certain businesses, their bank, their auto insurance, etc., but I can guarantee you that those businesses only see you as a source of income for their business no matter how customer friendly their web site, customer service reps sound...and they ain't going to give you any gold watch for being a loyal customer for 50 years....in fact, you probably won't get anything additional that a brand new customer wouldn't get...and with some promotions/special deals a new customer can get a better deal than a long time customer.

Some may think it's hard to switch banks but it really isn't especially with just a little planning mostly in switching over your BillPay, allotments, etc...that is, open the new bank account first, take a few months to switch over the BillPays, allotments, etc., then cancel the old bank account. I too have been a BoA customer for a long time, probably around 6-8 years and they served my basic banking needs just fine when I still lived in the States where foreign transaction fees were not an issue when getting money from the ATM, buying something at Walmart with my BoA debit/credit card.

But when a person's living location/lifestyle changes your bank of many years may no longer be the good deal; in fact, it may be a bad deal especially fee-wise. I still have a BoA checking account (at minimum level to avoid a monthly maintenance fee), and both a BoA debit and credit card (their credit card charges a 3% foreign transaction fee). Both cards now live in my safe (never used due to foreign transaction fees) and I just need to get off my butt soon and cancel my account and cards with them, because early last year I opened accounts with other U.S. banks where I got debit and/or credit cards which do not charge any fees for foreign transactions....I opened these accounts while living in Thailand and opening some of the accounts took some paperwork and phone calls, but I got them open. Occasionally when I do a big bucks transfer I get that ACH transfer completely free of any home country bank fee (compared to a $3 to $25 BoA external bank transfer fee). Now when I use my debit cards in a Thai bank ATM and get charged a 150 baht foreign card fee (which I really try to avoid by using an AEON ATM) I get reimbursed that fee and I don't get charged any fee(s) by my home country banks...and I now have a couple of U.S. credit cards that don't charge any foreign transaction fee(s) and one even gives me a 2% cash back on my Lotus, Big C, Foodland, fuel stations, etc., type buys...and I'm covered/protected under U.S. credit card customer protection laws compared to the practically non-existent Thai consumer protection laws. Opening up these new U.S. bank/credit card accounts would have been a lot faster/easier if I had opened them while still living in the U.S., but I still got them opened with some effort...mostly some mailings back and forth, a few calls to clear up new account questions they sometimes had, etc.

I would highly recommend to everyone who travels or plans to live overseas is to look at your current banks/debit & credit cards to see what "foreign transaction fees" they charge (if it ain't zero fees then switch) and what they charge for online funds transfers to other banks (if they don't have a free option then switch). And you may have to really dig around their web site to find the fee info...don't give up until you find the words which specially state what the fee is, none, $5, 1%, 3%, etc...seems some banks prefer placing that fee info in the fog, under the rug, etc. When living overseas one of the most frustrating things can be those foreign transaction/funds transfer fees by your home country bank that takes money to the tune of 1-5% out of your pocket and puts it in the bank's profit pocket....those 1-5% fees sure add up to some significant money...and I would much prefer that significant amount of money to end-up in my pocket versus the bank's pocket--they are already making plenty of profit in my humble opinion.

Cheers,

Pib

Now Foreign Transaction Fee Free

Again, thanks Pib for your observations. What are some of the credit card issuers that you are most satisfied with? I'm in the US for 2 more weeks so I still have time to complete the application process while here.

BTW, I did stop by the offices of Charles Schwab in Boston today and opened an account;... painless!

[Pib]

dddave,

For credit cards once again a person wants to get one that does not charge a foreign transation fee and does not charge an annual fee.

I have two such cards: A CapOne No Hassle Cash Back Mastercard and a Pentagon Federal Credit Union (at PenFed most anymore can still join right online) Visa Card. Now a Visa credit/debit card will usually (not always) give you a little better exchange rate (say around 0.1baht/USD) on a day-to-day basis than a Mastercard logo card.

For over a year now I've used the CapOne credit card for almost all my buys (anything over a few hundred baht) at Lotus, Big C, Foodland, diesel for the SUV, etc., since I get 2% cash back and 1% all all other transactions like medical care, hardware store buys, restaurants, etc. Unfortunately, they don't offer this particular card any more (credit card promotions change quite a bit), but they do have other cards like this CapOne Cash Credit Card which pays 1% cash back monthly on all transactions and then a 50% cashback bonus each year...I guess that would workout to around 1.5% cash back over a years time frame...not quite as good as my card, but still very good. And I've never had any transaction disapproved or the card stopped working while living in Thailand nor have had to contact CapOne for anything (knock on wood). As mentioned, I've been using it for over a year now in Thailand problem free. Now I didn't open a back account with CapOne; I only got their credit card. But if you open a bank account also they also have a no foreign fee debit card but I'm not sure it will work in a AEON ATM (but does work in Thai bank ATMs) since the debit card uses the Cirrus network which AEON don't support....I think that's the way it goes...there were several ThaiVisa threads on this CapOne debit card subject 6-12 months ago. Maybe some one out their listening and having a CapOne debit card can provide confirmation/clarification.

My other no foreign transaction fee and no annual fee credit card is the PenFed Visa Cash Rewards card...it only pays 0.25% cash back, but the main reason I got it was to have another no foreign transaction fee credit card in case CapOne ever changes their policy on foreign transaction fees. I've used the PenFed Visa credit card a couple of times in Thailand and it also works fine.

And of course, both U.S. credit cards provide me consumer protection under U.S. Consumer Protection Laws versus the practically non-existent Thai Consumer Protection (giggle, giggle) Laws.

Yeap, when it comes to banks and credit cards now days I pretty much treat them like how I shop for auto insurance in that I do a lot of comparison at least every few years and switch to the company with the best deal. Seems some companies (like banks) now days will offer better deals to new customers than their current customers since they know current customers are less likely to switch--but for that strategy don't work on me. A person always needs to keep their eyes and ears (and mind) open to switching to a better deal.

Cheers,

Pib

[mrjon]

After reading the posts regarding opening an account with Charles Schwab, I decided to do that few days ago as the wife and I are coming back in November to visit her family and friends for a couple of months.

It was easy to open although I wasn't excited about a brokerage account being created as well, however, they didn't seem to have a problem with me using the checking account only.

While talking to a Charles Schwab Representative this morning, I mentioned casually that it was my intention to use their Debit card to access money through ATM machines when I move back to Thailand.

He stated that it was a possibililty (remote) that Schwab could flag the account if they saw the card being used for a long time (undefined,like in years) ) in Thailand.

Anyone had any experience's, discussions, thoughs with this?

Or, do you think that this was just a Schwab Investment Rep, blowing smoke?

Jb

Englewood, Fl

[Pib]

I've been using mine for about 18 months now with no problems. I keep $100 in the brokerage account just to have a balance there (but no balance is required); keep several thousand dollars in the Schwab checking and savings accounts. I doubt Schwab cares if you live in Thailand as long as you also have a U.S. address and the the account(s) was opened without any deception, which they would have probably spotted during the account opening process/credit check.

I would recommend using AEON ATMs whenever/if possible to prevent Schwab from having to shell out a reimbursement fees all the time; I expect if they see you are getting more money out of them than they are getting out of you that they might find some reason to make use of the ATM/debit card less desirable. Don't help kill the golden goose....use an AEON ATM whenever possible to prevent Schwab from having to reimburse you/spend money on you.

[dddave]

I'm the OP in this thread. I have now had my Charles Schwab account for close to 5 months and have been more than satisfied. I have never been pressured in any way to use the trading account and found Customer Service to be very responsive the one time I called them.

I to try to use the no fee AEON atm's. They are making it much easier to do these days by opening many more ATM locations. I especially like the convenience of the Aeon office in the lower level (Lighthouse) of Terminal 21.

I try to make only one large monthly withdrawal from Schwab, depositing the funds in a nearby Bangkok bank whos debit card I use for casual local withdrawals.

As a back-up, I also opened an electronic checking account with TD Bank North in the USA. They also absorb all international ATM withdrawal fees along as a balance of US$2500.00 is maintained. My SSI is deposited directly into that account and I am careful to maintain the deposit minimum.

With a little planning, there is no need for any American to be paying the rapacious fees imposed by Chase, BoA, Citybank and other profit gouging banks.

Again, thanks to Pib for his good advice and information inside this thread.

[Jayman]

Unfortunately, the general trend is for more fees. Charles Schwab is great, and they do absorb the typically 150 baht fees at ATMs in Thailand. I do worry, though, that as fees increase around the world, they may no longer be able to offer this service. I and another friend use it sparingly, like tiptoeing on eggshells, for fear it will be perceived as overuse, and withdrawn. Completely irrational, of course, but born of the fear that Schwab may one day say, "No more mister Nice Guy!"...

If you can plan ahead, you can always use Aeon ATMS, which can be found in most malls and supermarkets, and is zero-fee. Or, open a Thai bank account in the province where you spend most of your time, and set up transfers from your home bank. If you're based in the US, use ACH, it's very convenient, and cheap. If not, SWIFT some cash in before you arrive.

On the whole, Schwab has been the best banking experience I have ever had, and it's not limited to ATMs. They jumped through a lot of hoops to get my business, and allow me to stay in Thailand hassle-free.

Recommended.

How would one use ACH to move money from a US bank to SCB?

[puck2]

@ Pib

***** as usual. Your comments are helpful, based on kwowledge and fair, especially with regard to „don't kill the golden goose.“

May I add one interesting point, the difference between VISA- and MASTER-cards.

1. - The VISA exchange rate is fixed the day prior to the trading day, on weekends on Friday at night, valid from Saturday until Monday at night. This means you can calculate the rate before going to the ATM. But note: Rates apply to the date the transaction was processed by Visa; this may differ from the actual date of purchase. You can read the rates on visa.corp. website.
   
2. 
   - The MASTER'S exchange rate is determined after the (US) bank trading hours. So you don't know the precise rate when going to the ATM.
   

As already stated many times here in TV, both rates are not very different from the Thai Bank Buying TT-rates.

Now a Visa credit/debit card will usually (not always) give you a little better exchange rate (say around 0.1baht/USD) on a day-to-day basis than a Mastercard logo card.

In my viewpoint the „prior“ setting of VISA is more beneficial.

But your decision should … depend on … depend on …. depend on …

• mostly on the contractual terms of the card issuuing bank. The terms for your and my visa-/mastercard may diverge.
  
• All your needs.
  

BTW, the Visa rates of the same currency can be different in Europe from those in the US.

Example for 31.Aug. 2012:

Visa rate for THB → EUR - in the US table: 0,025558 → 39,12669 THB for 1 EUR

Visa rate for THB → EUR - in the EUR table: 0,025487 → 39,23569 THB for 1 EUR

[Langsuan Man]

How would one use ACH to move money from a US bank to SCB?

You can't, not directly that is. You can do a US ACH to a Bangkok Bank account via their NY office, which will give you a US routing number which will include your Thai Bangkok Bank account number. You could then transfer the money from your Bangkok Bank account to Siam Commercial Bank

I do it this was since I want to pay my electric bill in Satahip, and they only use SCB for direct electric company debit

[Jayman]

How would one use ACH to move money from a US bank to SCB?

You can't, not directly that is. You can do a US ACH to a Bangkok Bank account via their NY office, which will give you a US routing number which will include your Thai Bangkok Bank account number. You could then transfer the money from your Bangkok Bank account to Siam Commercial Bank

I do it this was since I want to pay my electric bill in Satahip, and they only use SCB for direct electric company debit

So is Bangkok Bank the only Thai bank that a ACH transfer can be sent direct from a US bank?

Wish I would have known about this years ago. It would have saved me heaps in wire transfer fees. These days I don't do many transfers from the US to Thailand but it's still very good info.

[Pib]

It's the only Thai bank I've ever heard of having ACH capability...and that's because Bangkok Bank also has an U.S. presence with their New York state operation. Being able to use ACH can sure make wire transfers a heck of a lot cheaper as compared to SWIFT transfers.

Another thing I like about Bangkok Bank is their English version web site. Heck, I wouldn't even say Bangkok Bank has a close 2nd in this category. Having such an excellent English web site can make a person's Thai banking experience more "understandable," if they read/search the website. I see so many Thai banking questions on Thai visa, which whether the question is related to Bangkok Bank or even another Thai bank, is usually clearly answered on the Bangkok Bank web site since all Thai banks must follow Bank of Thailand regulations and therefore basically have the same rules/policies.

[vagabond48]

I would recommend using AEON ATMs whenever/if possible to prevent Schwab from having to shell out a reimbursement fees all the time; I expect if they see you are getting more money out of them than they are getting out of you that they might find some reason to make use of the ATM/debit card less desirable. Don't help kill the golden goose....use an AEON ATM whenever possible to prevent Schwab from having to reimburse you/spend money on you.

You can't say the above enough times. In the 3+ years I have had the card, Schwab has not had to shell any ATM fees.

Fortunately, besides Aeon in Thailand, the other countries I have visited did not have ATM fees so far except Vietnam.

[khunbillmex]

@ Pib

***** as usual. Your comments are helpful, based on knowledge and fair, especially with regard to „don't kill the golden goose.“

May I add one interesting point, the difference between VISA- and MASTER-cards.

1. - The VISA exchange rate is fixed the day prior to the trading day, on weekends on Friday at night, valid from Saturday until Monday at night. This means you can calculate the rate before going to the ATM. But note: Rates apply to the date the transaction was processed by Visa; this may differ from the actual date of purchase. You can read the rates on visa.corp. website.
   
2. 
   - The MASTER'S exchange rate is determined after the (US) bank trading hours. So you don't know the precise rate when going to the ATM.
   

As already stated many times here in TV, both rates are not very different from the Thai Bank Buying TT-rates.

Now a Visa credit/debit card will usually (not always) give you a little better exchange rate (say around 0.1baht/USD) on a day-to-day basis than a Mastercard logo card.

In my viewpoint the „prior“ setting of VISA is more beneficial.

But your decision should … depend on … depend on …. depend on …

• mostly on the contractual terms of the card issuing bank. The terms for your and my visa-/mastercard may diverge.
  
• All your needs.
  

BTW, the Visa rates of the same currency can be different in Europe from those in the US.

Example for 31.Aug. 2012:

Visa rate for THB → EUR - in the US table: 0,025558 → 39,12669 THB for 1 EUR

Visa rate for THB → EUR - in the EUR table: 0,025487 → 39,23569 THB for 1 EUR

I'm in Mexico and we don't have the onerous THB 150 hit on the top for foreign cards but local bank charges can come close + the 'home' bank in the States after 20 years started hitting me with their and Visa's fees. So I went to Schwab. It works well - but for starters I kept a spread sheet -to the best of my ability re the exchange rate [using http://www.oanda.com converter]. The numbers never worked. I contacted Schwab CS and they said they used the Visa corporate converter found here. You plug in the card's issuing currency then the transaction currency and finally the transaction date. So far [ 5months] it has been spot on or a little in my favor. Also in the 1st few months one learned which ATM's to avoid [those Schwab didn't automatically detect] I'm saving over $35/month and the account also pays -negligible- interest

[JimGant]

As a back-up, I also opened an electronic checking account with TD Bank North in the USA. They also absorb all international ATM withdrawal fees along as a balance of US$2500.00 is maintained. My SSI is deposited directly into that account and I am careful to maintain the deposit minimum.

With a little planning, there is no need for any American to be paying the rapacious fees imposed by Chase, BoA, Citybank and other profit gouging banks.

According to Flyerguide http://www.flyerguid...oreign_Exchange TD Bank is right up there with the worst (Citi, Chase, BB&T. etc) in charging 3% (plus $2) per ATM transaction. Nice that they reimburse non-TD bank ATM fees. But paying $32 over and above what Schwab charges, to get $1000 worth of baht -- doesn't sound too good (maybe you have the premier account, or whatever, that, per Flyerguide, waives all ATM fees?). Otherwise, an ACH routing from TD through Schwab would seem to be in order.

[JimGant]

In my viewpoint the „prior“ setting of VISA is more beneficial.

Not sure what you're getting at... Yes, Visa sets their rate at the beginning of the trading day -- New York time. Thus, 0001 on 31 October in New York is 11:01 AM, 31 Oct, in Thailand. MasterCard is about 12 hours behind Visa in their daily rate calculation. Thus, at noon on 31 Oct, I could check the Visa rate on-line, and I would see the 31 Oct rate of .032615, or 30.66 baht to the dollar. However, going to the MC site, I'd still find the 30 Oct rate, which is 30.500. Now, for the rest of the afternoon, and most of the evening (until MC changed to their 31 Oct rate, which went to 30.455), I could go to any ATM machine and get 30.66 baht per dollar with my Schwab Visa Debit/ATM card. -- and with a MC Debit/ATM card, assuming completely fee-free like Schwab, I would get 30.50 baht to the dollar.

On average (and I've been running the numbers for a long time), Visa gets a better than TT rate, by about 8 satang -- and MC gets a worse rate than TT, also by about 8 satang (US dollar, trading at about 30 to 1). Thus, the 16 satang gap between Visa and MC shown for a trip to the ATM machine on 31 October (afternoon-evening) is right on the average calculation.

Yeah, if the dollar is really appreciating -- and Visa captures this -- the 12-hour lead Visa has on MC updating its rate could result in a larger spread than 16 satang between the two ATM cards, (And vice versa -- dollar is tanking, Visa captures this, then your MC may do better than Visa during this 12 hour gap.) However, throwing out the outlier numbers for unusual FX days, a feeless Visa card will top a feeless MC card every time. That Visa reports "prior" to MC is, IMO, is not a factor when comparing the two cards. MC is definitely inferior (and I see their 3rd quarter earnings were way up -- I guess a little gouging certainly helps).

This means you can calculate the rate before going to the ATM. But note: Rates apply to the date the transaction was processed by Visa; this may differ from the actual date of purchase.

By pulling up both the Visa and MC rate websites, you can see the rate you'll receive for both cards used in the ATM mode. Visa "prior" reporting doesn't change this fact. There is no, or very little, processing lag factor when the cards are used in the ATM mode. It's, as said, only that MC's published rate will lag Visa's. But this will rarely, if ever, suggest you run out and use your MC over your Visa ATM card.

But don't confuse an ATM transaction with a POS transaction. Yes, the latter normally have a day's gap between purchase and transaction processing. So, if you buy something with your Visa card in the early afternoon of 31 Oct -- it will be the published rate for 1 Nov that will be the effective rate. For a MC purchase in the same time-frame on 31 Oct, the 31 Oct rate will be the effective rate. (The wife used her MC, I used my Visa credit card, in the same early afternoon time frame -- and the results were as I said -- different dates, and Visa FX rates superior.)

Of course, other factors, like what your issuing bank does -- and doesn't offer -- could give the nod to MC. Capital One's credit card is a MC -- and they're completely feeless, from what's reported -- and have 2% cash back. Not sure what, if any, Visa credit card matches this..... (I'm too lazy to get a Capital One credit card. I use my USAA Visa credit card, which passes on the 1% foreign transaction fee -- but has a 1% cash back feature that neutralizes this. Thus, I realize, net, a better-than-TT exchange rate overall. Hmmm. I wonder what the cost of being lazy is......)