Opinions On Best Fuel

[macknife]

Just got the new Honda PCX 150. According to the dealer, this bike can take every sort of petrol, Benzine 91 / 95, Gasohol 91, even E20. Is this at all possible? Would the best bet be Benzine 91 assuming cost is not a real issue? (I would probably do something like 1,000 kms a month compared to my current 2,500 kms per month in my Prius).

Never mind the dealer what does it say in the Honda manual, although I still would bet the dealer is right.

You would rather trust a Thai dealer than what it says in the Honda manual? Don't be silly. They just go on what they know, old bikes and gasohol don't work well, but new bikes have been built with gasohol in mind. Some older mechanics etc just take a while to catch up.

[kawapower]

Can anyone provide or is there any actual proof that gasohol in particular E10 damages engines? most of the bikes and cars are running on gasohol in this country, I have never heard or read about problems concerning this fuel, my Nissen March runs on 95 gasohol my Z1000 runs on 95 gasohol(also 95 Benzine when I can be bothered to drive 60 kms to get it, my 2 125's run on 91 gasohol, my mates Nissen March and Kawasaki 250R runs on 91 gasohol never have we had a problem, it would be nice to see some evidence of actual damage to engines etc.

Just read alot about Ethanol and it is hear to stay and no doubt before long you will not be able to get anything other than Ethanol mixed fuel, so if you have concerns about this fuel(I do not anymore, I have no choice but to use E10, what are you going to do, start walking or buy a push bike seems to be the only options!!

As for using 91 Benzine in my Z1000 as advised by the Kawasaki dealer, it clearly says on the tank and manual to use Benzine 95 or E10 gasohol, using any other fuel would invalidate the warranty should any problems occur, the Kawasaki dealer says to use 91 because it is obtainable whereas Benzine 95 is not!! they filled my bike up with 91 I assume Benzine because that is what they could get easily!!

Edited March 22, 2012 by kawapower

[skybluestu]

Can anyone provide or is there any actual proof that gasohol in particular E10 damages engines? most of the bikes and cars are running on gasohol in this country but I have never heard or read about problems concerning this fuel, my Nissen March runs on 95 gasohol my Z1000 runs on 95 gasohol(also 95 Benzine when I can be bothered to drive 60 kms to get it, my 2 125's run on 91 gasohol, my mates Nissen March and Kawasaki 250R runs on 91 gasohol never have we had a problem, it would be nice to see some evidence of actual damage to engines etc.

You'll get better performance and fuel economy from 91 benzine than either 91 or 95 gasohol. It will probably work out the same price as 91 benzine is slightly more expensive but, as every garage sell 91 benzine (usually red), why wouldn't you?

[kawapower]

Can anyone provide or is there any actual proof that gasohol in particular E10 damages engines? most of the bikes and cars are running on gasohol in this country but I have never heard or read about problems concerning this fuel, my Nissen March runs on 95 gasohol my Z1000 runs on 95 gasohol(also 95 Benzine when I can be bothered to drive 60 kms to get it, my 2 125's run on 91 gasohol, my mates Nissen March and Kawasaki 250R runs on 91 gasohol never have we had a problem, it would be nice to see some evidence of actual damage to engines etc.

You'll get better performance and fuel economy from 91 benzine than either 91 or 95 gasohol. It will probably work out the same price as 91 benzine is slightly more expensive but, as every garage sell 91 benzine (usually red), why wouldn't you?

Because it does not say to use 91 on my bike or manuel, did you not read my last post???

[kawapower]

Hydrous Ethanol Corrosion

High alcohol fuel blends are reputed to cause corrosion of aluminum fuel system components. However, studies indicate that the addition of water to the high alcohol fuel blends helps prevent corrosion. This is shown in SAE paper 2005-01-3708 Appendix 1.2 where gasoline/alcohol blends of E50, nP50,IP50 nB50, IB50 were tested on steel, copper, nickel, zinc, tin and three types of aluminum. The tests showed that when the water content was increased from 2000ppm to 1%, corrosion was no longer evident except some materials showed discolouration.

Going by this taken from Wikipedia there are problems associated with corrosion of fuel system parts in high content Ethanol mixture fuel, I am sure there will never be any problems associated with E10 other than maybe a little less kms to a litre.

Edited March 22, 2012 by kawapower

[skybluestu]

Can anyone provide or is there any actual proof that gasohol in particular E10 damages engines? most of the bikes and cars are running on gasohol in this country but I have never heard or read about problems concerning this fuel, my Nissen March runs on 95 gasohol my Z1000 runs on 95 gasohol(also 95 Benzine when I can be bothered to drive 60 kms to get it, my 2 125's run on 91 gasohol, my mates Nissen March and Kawasaki 250R runs on 91 gasohol never have we had a problem, it would be nice to see some evidence of actual damage to engines etc.

You'll get better performance and fuel economy from 91 benzine than either 91 or 95 gasohol. It will probably work out the same price as 91 benzine is slightly more expensive but, as every garage sell 91 benzine (usually red), why wouldn't you?

Because it does not say to use 91 on my bike or manuel, did you not read my last post???

OK, so you are happy to use 95 Gasohol but not 91 Benzine?!

[kawapower]

Can anyone provide or is there any actual proof that gasohol in particular E10 damages engines? most of the bikes and cars are running on gasohol in this country but I have never heard or read about problems concerning this fuel, my Nissen March runs on 95 gasohol my Z1000 runs on 95 gasohol(also 95 Benzine when I can be bothered to drive 60 kms to get it, my 2 125's run on 91 gasohol, my mates Nissen March and Kawasaki 250R runs on 91 gasohol never have we had a problem, it would be nice to see some evidence of actual damage to engines etc.

You'll get better performance and fuel economy from 91 benzine than either 91 or 95 gasohol. It will probably work out the same price as 91 benzine is slightly more expensive but, as every garage sell 91 benzine (usually red), why wouldn't you?

Because it does not say to use 91 on my bike or manuel, did you not read my last post???

OK, so you are happy to use 95 Gasohol but not 91 Benzine?!

It does not say to use 91 Benzine any where on my bike or manual(twice I have now said this, why would I use a lower octane rated fuel in a bike when everything says DO NOT USE A LOWER OCTANE FUEL OTHER THAN WHAT IS SPECIFIED!!! the warranty depends on you using the correct fuel, correct parts etc, if you can provide documented proof that using gasohol will 100% cause damage to my bike I will go back to Kawasaki and get a written statement saying I am able to use Benzine 91 and this will not affect my warranty or cause bad running!!

91 RON and 95 RON are different, I am not technical but high compression engines I assume prefer a higher octane!!

Edited March 22, 2012 by kawapower

[skybluestu]

So you want the highest possible octane level then? I could be wrong, I have been once before, but I'm pretty sure 95 benzine has the highest followed by 91 benzine then 95 gasohol and 91 gasohol. So, like I said, 91 benzine is a better option than 95 gasohol

[wana]

So you want the highest possible octane level then? I could be wrong, I have been once before, but I'm pretty sure 95 benzine has the highest followed by 91 benzine then 95 gasohol and 91 gasohol. So, like I said, 91 benzine is a better option than 95 gasohol

you can buy octane booster in big c also

one small bottle treats 25-50 litres of gasohol etc

2-3 differnt brands last time i looked ,no idea whether it works or not

[kawapower]

So you want the highest possible octane level then? I could be wrong, I have been once before, but I'm pretty sure 95 benzine has the highest followed by 91 benzine then 95 gasohol and 91 gasohol. So, like I said, 91 benzine is a better option than 95 gasohol

95 Benzine is the same octane rating as 95 gasohol 95 gasohol contains 10% Ethanol, as far as I can tell 10% Ethanol has no detrimental effect on the fuel system parts, of course I could be wrong but no one has provided any evidence that gasohol in particular E10 causes any problems. maybe 91 Benzine would be okay but the tank sticker and manual clearly states 95 not 91, my bikes runs perfectly on 95 gasohol, I have now filled up with 95 Benzine but as I stated before it is a 60km round trip to get this fuel.

[skybluestu]

So you want the highest possible octane level then? I could be wrong, I have been once before, but I'm pretty sure 95 benzine has the highest followed by 91 benzine then 95 gasohol and 91 gasohol. So, like I said, 91 benzine is a better option than 95 gasohol

95 Benzine is the same octane rating as 95 gasohol 95 gasohol contains 10% Ethanol, as far as I can tell 10% Ethanol has no detrimental effect on the fuel system parts, of course I could be wrong but no one has provided any evidence that gasohol in particular E10 causes any problems. maybe 91 Benzine would be okay but the tank sticker and manual clearly states 95 not 91, my bikes runs perfectly on 95 gasohol, I have now filled up with 95 Benzine but as I stated before it is a 60km round trip to get this fuel.

The rating might be the same but if you take 1ltr of 95 benzine and 1ltr of 95 gasohol then wouldn't the AMOUNT of octane in the 1ltr of 95 benzine be higher than in the 1ltr of 95 gasohol as 10% of that 1ltr of 95 gasohol would be ethanol? I'm certainly no genius (where is Dave Boo when you need him?) but it makes sense that 1ltr of 91 benzine would have more octane than in 1ltr of 95 gasohol as only 90% of the 1ltr of gasohol is benzine. So if you want as much octane as possible and are choosing between 15ltrs of 91 benzine or 15ltrs of 95 gasohol I would have thought the 15ltrs of 91 benzine would be the best choice.

Edited March 22, 2012 by skybluestu

[wana]

So you want the highest possible octane level then? I could be wrong, I have been once before, but I'm pretty sure 95 benzine has the highest followed by 91 benzine then 95 gasohol and 91 gasohol. So, like I said, 91 benzine is a better option than 95 gasohol

95 Benzine is the same octane rating as 95 gasohol 95 gasohol contains 10% Ethanol, as far as I can tell 10% Ethanol has no detrimental effect on the fuel system parts, of course I could be wrong but no one has provided any evidence that gasohol in particular E10 causes any problems. maybe 91 Benzine would be okay but the tank sticker and manual clearly states 95 not 91, my bikes runs perfectly on 95 gasohol, I have now filled up with 95 Benzine but as I stated before it is a 60km round trip to get this fuel.

The rating might be the same but if you take 1ltr of 95 benzine and 1ltr of 95 gasohol then wouldn't the AMOUNT of octane in the 1ltr of 95 benzine be higher than in the 1ltr of 95 gasohol as 10% of that 1ltr of 95 gasohol would be ethanol? I'm certainly no genius (where is Dave Boo when you need him?) but it makes sense that 1ltr of 91 benzine would have more octane than in 1ltr of 95 gasohol as only 90% of the 1ltr of gasohol is benzine.

someone told me ethanol has in fact more power to release when burned compared to gasoline but im not a scientist ,i havent tested it myself

Edited March 22, 2012 by wana

[macknife]

If Benzine 91 invalidates your warranty then don't use it. I'd go with what the manual says rather than a guy in a shop.

[Kwasaki]

So you want the highest possible octane level then? I could be wrong, I have been once before, but I'm pretty sure 95 benzine has the highest followed by 91 benzine then 95 gasohol and 91 gasohol. So, like I said, 91 benzine is a better option than 95 gasohol

95 Benzine is the same octane rating as 95 gasohol 95 gasohol contains 10% Ethanol, as far as I can tell 10% Ethanol has no detrimental effect on the fuel system parts, of course I could be wrong but no one has provided any evidence that gasohol in particular E10 causes any problems. maybe 91 Benzine would be okay but the tank sticker and manual clearly states 95 not 91, my bikes runs perfectly on 95 gasohol, I have now filled up with 95 Benzine but as I stated before it is a 60km round trip to get this fuel.

The rating might be the same but if you take 1ltr of 95 benzine and 1ltr of 95 gasohol then wouldn't the AMOUNT of octane in the 1ltr of 95 benzine be higher than in the 1ltr of 95 gasohol as 10% of that 1ltr of 95 gasohol would be ethanol? I'm certainly no genius (where is Dave Boo when you need him?) but it makes sense that 1ltr of 91 benzine would have more octane than in 1ltr of 95 gasohol as only 90% of the 1ltr of gasohol is benzine.

someone told me ethanol has in fact more power to release when burned compared to gasoline but im not a scientist ,i havent tested it myself

I think some people on ere have lost the plot and " wana " your a gooden and maybe you are one of the young whipper napper's on ere as well but that's OK, so come to daddy, as senile as I may seem to others, there's seems to be a bit of product paranoia going on ere, if the f'ing book says 91 or the f'ing book says 95 or a tank f'ing sticker says what to use, f'ing use it, when the book start talking about f'ing alcohol & ethanol ( which is related to alcohol ) & octane , da do Ron Ron f'ing Ron Ron contents etc, I think they are just trying to wringle out of some of the warranty issues.

Frankly I couldn't give a flying " F " what all of you use, I use what is right for the engine set up, whether it's carbs or ECU control injection, and if the f'ing engine goes AWOL, I'll take it apart and rebuilt the bastard.

My old Duck please feel free to edit.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Kwasaki

[TylerBKK]

As I said before, just keep it simple, use only Benzine and with the highest octane you can find. That's all you need to do.

[karlos]

So you want the highest possible octane level then? I could be wrong, I have been once before, but I'm pretty sure 95 benzine has the highest followed by 91 benzine then 95 gasohol and 91 gasohol. So, like I said, 91 benzine is a better option than 95 gasohol

95 Benzine is the same octane rating as 95 gasohol 95 gasohol contains 10% Ethanol, as far as I can tell 10% Ethanol has no detrimental effect on the fuel system parts, of course I could be wrong but no one has provided any evidence that gasohol in particular E10 causes any problems. maybe 91 Benzine would be okay but the tank sticker and manual clearly states 95 not 91, my bikes runs perfectly on 95 gasohol, I have now filled up with 95 Benzine but as I stated before it is a 60km round trip to get this fuel.

The rating might be the same but if you take 1ltr of 95 benzine and 1ltr of 95 gasohol then wouldn't the AMOUNT of octane in the 1ltr of 95 benzine be higher than in the 1ltr of 95 gasohol as 10% of that 1ltr of 95 gasohol would be ethanol? I'm certainly no genius (where is Dave Boo when you need him?) but it makes sense that 1ltr of 91 benzine would have more octane than in 1ltr of 95 gasohol as only 90% of the 1ltr of gasohol is benzine. So if you want as much octane as possible and are choosing between 15ltrs of 91 benzine or 15ltrs of 95 gasohol I would have thought the 15ltrs of 91 benzine would be the best choice.

Octane isn't an additive which accounts for 10% of a fuels volume, it's a measurement of a fuels' ability to withstand high compressions before igniting under compression (with out a spark).

Hence the reason why a higher compression engine needs a higher octane rated fuel to withstand the higher heat generated by the stronger compression.

If you were to run an engine on 91 (gasohol or benzene) the fuel would be igniting before the spark occurs and cause per-detonation which causes knock and in turn screws your engine up in such a way that the damage can clearly be read by a competent mechanic resulting in a void warranty....

use 95 where it says 95, beit gasohol or benzene.

Knock sensors are fitted to engines to adjust timing due to varying factors within the combustion chamber, however they can't help you effectively if you put a fuel in that's going to ignite 2/3rds into a piston's compression stroke.

[Kwasaki]

So you want the highest possible octane level then? I could be wrong, I have been once before, but I'm pretty sure 95 benzine has the highest followed by 91 benzine then 95 gasohol and 91 gasohol. So, like I said, 91 benzine is a better option than 95 gasohol

Wrong, I really think things are getting a bit mixed up here,

95 Benzine is the same octane rating as 95 gasohol 95 gasohol contains 10% Ethanol, as far as I can tell 10% Ethanol has no detrimental effect on the fuel system parts, of course I could be wrong but no one has provided any evidence that gasohol in particular E10 causes any problems. maybe 91 Benzine would be okay but the tank sticker and manual clearly states 95 not 91, my bikes runs perfectly on 95 gasohol, I have now filled up with 95 Benzine but as I stated before it is a 60km round trip to get this fuel.

Yep !! 95 gasohol is more octane.

The rating might be the same but if you take 1ltr of 95 benzine and 1ltr of 95 gasohol then wouldn't the AMOUNT of octane in the 1ltr of 95 benzine be higher than in the 1ltr of 95 gasohol as 10% of that 1ltr of 95 gasohol would be ethanol? I'm certainly no genius (where is Dave Boo when you need him?) but it makes sense that 1ltr of 91 benzine would have more octane than in 1ltr of 95 gasohol as only 90% of the 1ltr of gasohol is benzine. So if you want as much octane as possible and are choosing between 15ltrs of 91 benzine or 15ltrs of 95 gasohol I would have thought the 15ltrs of 91 benzine would be the best choice.

No.

Octane isn't an additive which accounts for 10% of a fuels volume, it's a measurement of a fuels' ability to withstand high compressions before igniting under compression (with out a spark).

Hence the reason why a higher compression engine needs a higher octane rated fuel to withstand the higher heat generated by the stronger compression.

If you were to run an engine on 91 (gasohol or benzene) the fuel would be igniting before the spark occurs and cause per-detonation which causes knock and in turn screws your engine up in such a way that the damage can clearly be read by a competent mechanic resulting in a void warranty....

use 95 where it says 95, beit gasohol or benzene.

Knock sensors are fitted to engines to adjust timing due to varying factors within the combustion chamber, however they can't help you effectively if you put a fuel in that's going to ignite 2/3rds into a piston's compression stroke.

" use 95 where it says 95 " Yes, ECU will adjust and well knock sensors, you have a S1000RR yes.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Kwasaki

[kawapower]

Took my Z1000 in for it's 1000km service this morning, thought I would bring up the subject of fuel again, I ask man "who tell you it's okay to use 91 Benzine in this bike" man say "customer" "if I use 91 Benzine will warranty be okay should a problem with engine occur" no answer other than customer say ok, many times man say "gasohol no good" I thought to myself, why <deleted> sell a bike that says to use 95 gasohol which you say is no good and 95 Benzine which is very difficult to get!! has anyone had problems using E10 in there bike? does anyone know of any problems using E10? does anyone know of anyone else who has had a problem using E10?

I understand now that Ethanol attracts water so if left for a long time in tanks or in the motorbike water corrosion could occur but what are the chance in a bike or car that is used regularly!!

I keep going on about this but I find it difficult to ignore the manual and a very visible tank sticker saying Benzine, gasohol 95!!!

[skybluestu]

Took my Z1000 in for it's 1000km service this morning, thought I would bring up the subject of fuel again, I ask man "who tell you it's okay to use 91 Benzine in this bike" man say "customer" "if I use 91 Benzine will warranty be okay should a problem with engine occur" no answer other than customer say ok, many times man say "gasohol no good" I thought to myself, why <deleted> sell a bike that says to use 95 gasohol which you say is no good and 95 Benzine which is very difficult to get!! has anyone had problems using E10 in there bike? does anyone know of any problems using E10? does anyone know of anyone else who has had a problem using E10?

I understand now that Ethanol attracts water so if left for a long time in tanks or in the motorbike water corrosion could occur but what are the chance in a bike or car that is used regularly!!

I keep going on about this but I find it difficult to ignore the manual and a very visible tank sticker saying Benzine, gasohol 95!!!

Some more info here http://justtryus.blogspot.com/2007/11/gasohol.html

[kawapower]

Cheers mate, so within the next few years gasohol is all you will be able to get and maybe even E10 will no longer be available as it appears they want to increase the Ethanol content, so when all our bikes and cars break down because of Ethanol will the manufactures pay, I doubt it as gasohol is recommended on bikes and cars.

[Kwasaki]

has anyone had problems using E10 in there bike? does anyone know of any problems using E10? does anyone know of anyone else who has had a problem using E10?

I understand now that Ethanol attracts water so if left for a long time in tanks or in the motorbike water corrosion could occur but what are the chance in a bike or car that is used regularly!!

I keep going on about this but I find it difficult to ignore the manual and a very visible tank sticker saying Benzine, gasohol 95!!!

has anyone had problems using E10 in there bike? If it can use it !! No I ain't, not yet.

does anyone know of any problems using E10? Yep !! non-compatable rubber components, and bikes that shouldn't be using it.

does anyone know of anyone else who has had a problem using E10? Yep !! someone who I told not to use it.

I understand now that Ethanol attracts water so if left for a long time in tanks or in the motorbike water corrosion could occur but what are the chance in a bike or car that is used regularly!!

Regularly, answers your concern.

I keep going on about this but !! yep you sure do.

Oh gosh !! there's another problem, it says Benzine, it should be Benzene.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Kwasaki

[kawapower]

Okay mate calm down it's a forum and it's something I am now interested in, if you do not want to contribute then don't!!

Oh you did contribute, well done an apology on it's way!!

Edited March 26, 2012 by kawapower

[wana]

Cheers mate, so within the next few years gasohol is all you will be able to get and maybe even E10 will no longer be available as it appears they want to increase the Ethanol content, so when all our bikes and cars break down because of Ethanol will the manufactures pay, I doubt it as gasohol is recommended on bikes and cars.

bikes used regularly will not die from gasohol

my nc-23 is about19 years old and the old owner ran it on gasohol and it still runs great (although i only put benzine in bikes that old myself )

[Gary A]

My Elegance has a green 91 sticker on the gas cap. Actually I use anything that is available and can't tell any difference. The very small village gas stops have no markings on the containers or hand pumps but I have had no problems other than I did get some that had a lot of dirt in it. It cost me 90 baht to have the carburetor and fuel system cleaned up at the local motorcycle shop.