metisdead Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 A post calling members to lobby has been removed. Thai Visa is not to be used as a platform to lobby against a cause, no matter how noble it may be. 29) Not to lobby members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Buy bear in mind that if Thai "culture" was not as it actually exists there would be no market for girls of this age. Thai's (often Thai women) very often exploit young Thai females including selling their own daughters for pecunariary gain. Wow! You don't say. PS. It's an "Asian" thing; not peculiar to Thailand. Don't worry, you will get the hang of it all eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I see the Thai apologists are out in force already, sweeping any notion that their beloved country (sic) could possibly at fault here whilst they lay blame squarely at the door of the vile foreigner. Pathetic that they know so little of or will admit to so little about the country they are defending. The old 'Thai apologist' chestnut. How about just being culturally aware and knowing one's position in the grand scheme of things here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voracious Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 More grist for the mill. It appears the 2 girls and 4 boys had taken a ride with a Malaysian man in a white van near the border. In the article it further states it was unclear if the teens traveled into Thailand willingly or not. Some vendors at the Hua Lamphong train station gave them money to buy tickets to return home. They were caught by the police when they failed to produce travel documents (e.g. passports) and sent to the immigration police, who contacted the Malaysian embassy. Latest news details the call to her mother was on Mar. 12, the date they were arrested/rescued was March 11. Kidnap? Kids on a trip? Kids on a trip that went wrong? Let's let the police (of all countries involved) continue to investigate and see what comes of this. The rest is really speculation tainted by our own prejudices. Source: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/3/21/nation/20120321220449&sec=nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPIKECM Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) More grist for the mill. It appears the 2 girls and 4 boys had taken a ride with a Malaysian man in a white van near the border. In the article it further states it was unclear if the teens traveled into Thailand willingly or not. Some vendors at the Hua Lamphong train station gave them money to buy tickets to return home. They were caught by the police when they failed to produce travel documents (e.g. passports) and sent to the immigration police, who contacted the Malaysian embassy. Latest news details the call to her mother was on Mar. 12, the date they were arrested/rescued was March 11. Kidnap? Kids on a trip? Kids on a trip that went wrong? Let's let the police (of all countries involved) continue to investigate and see what comes of this. The rest is really speculation tainted by our own prejudices. Source: http://thestar.com.m...0449&sec=nation It never quite is the nice popular black and white story. The girl was a Rohingya refugee for a start.....probably the only interest the Thai police had was that she was Muslim.... "Thai authorities were trying to determine if an international crime syndicate was involved in this case" ..what?, like the Thai police are in some way concerned about the welfare of this girl? The Burmese don't want the Rohingya and Thailand sure doesn't want them either...... I think the "Well Done, Thai Police!" comments were at best premature. Edited March 21, 2012 by SPIKECM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swillowbee Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) In any country where whorehouses are as ubiquitous as in Thailand (actually, I think there is no country in the world that can put up numbers like Thailand), and boasts an illegal sex industry big enough to register its own line item in the national GDP, this sort of thing is bound to happen. I could guess how the 62% of the Malaysians who are Muslim would view this sort of industry and the horribly corrosive social consequences. It is one thing when it is Thais trading in Thai sex slavery. But, when Thais start trading in sex slaves from neighboring countries, does that cross a line? I have to wonder if the 95% of Thais who are Buddhists see this as something wrong. I mean, c'mon look around ... pick any Thai town ... its not like any Thais have a problem with it. Having much vaunted reputation now as the whorehouse to the world, maybe Thai Buddhists believe differently on this subject. Is it possible that Thailand's Theravada Buddhism has been hijacked and deformed to meet some nefarious designs? Or, maybe Thais are not actually Buddhists at all, they just say they are (hypocrites, either way). I guess I just don't get Buddhist values. Maybe the Thais' greed is now stronger than the Thais' Buddha. Really ashamed about that. Edited March 21, 2012 by swillowbee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Source: http://thestar.com.m...0449&sec=nation Missing Malaysian girl took lift into Thailand from stranger BANGKOK: Thai immigration police investigations have indicated that a 14-year-old Malaysian girl and her five Rohingya friends had taken a lift from a stranger in Malaysia near the Malaysia-Thai border before entering Thailand illegally. The six have since been rescued by the Thai police. Deputy Commander of Immigration Bureau Investigation Centre Pol Col Chartchai Lamsaeng said Wednesday, the six took the ride on a Malaysian-registered van offered by a Malaysian man near the border on March 8. Continued: http://thestar.com.m...0449&sec=nation The Star (Malaysia) - March 21, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) The girl was a Rohingya refugee for a start Nazatul is a confirmed Malaysian. All her 5 Burmese friends accompanying Nazatul are Rohingya. All of her friends have confirmed UN Refugee status for Malaysia and have been returned to Malaysia by the Thai authorities. (refer to articles above) . Edited March 21, 2012 by Buchholz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 She was reported missing on Jan. 30, but didn't leave Malaysia until the six took the ride on a Malaysian-registered van offered by a Malaysian man near the border on March 8. The original understanding seemed to confer that she was kidnapped in Jan. and very soon thereafter left Malaysia for Thailand... when it now seems she apparently didn't leave Malaysia for 38 days after her disappearance. Still, however, much is not known in this situation. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP25 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Sounds like a runaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor35 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) To all those who are saying "well done" to the wonderful Thai police. I have yet to see the obligitary photo with the abductors sitting around a table with the aforementioned BIB standing behind pointing. I think that the fact is, that the BIB have done very little with regard to tracing the 'abductors' if there really were any...........that's been filed in the "cannot be bothered" basket ! Edited March 21, 2012 by oldsailor35 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPIKECM Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 the underlying point is, it does not matter if the girls were for the farang or thai market, they were trafficked for a market. if you have been to a thai orientated brothel full of thirteen to fifteen year old girls, the brothel protected by the BIB, you can see what a dirty trade it is. westerners prowling the streets of pattaya or elsewhere, looking for young trade, are no different to thais using these same services. I don't disbelieve that there is child prostitition going on in Thailand and I don't disagree that a few under 15 year olds slip through the net (still illegal at 17), but I don't believe such a place exists where farangs can walk in and choose from a selection of 13-14 year olds. If this came from a poster with 2 or 3 posts I would assume he/she has gone to one of these fish tank places and took a good 5 years plus off a girl's age in there. If such a place existed where farangs could walk in World Vision and the likes would have been there by now. NGO's are just bursting at the seems to find such a place in Thailand.This together with the fact that the penalties for engaging in sex with a 14 year old in Thailand makes this story incredible. The penalty I believe is 20 years in prison which is a tough sentence. Why didn't you inform an NGO organisation instead of telling this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewoo Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Seems like in this case, the girl was a runaway, who intentionally and illegally crossed into Thailand with 5 friends... The Man whose Van she and her friends crossed in might have drugged them with nefarious intent, then thought better of it and dropped them at a Mosque in BKK, or maybe that was where they asked to be dropped... The police had little part in 'rescuing' the girl and her friends in any of the scenarios, they walked to the train station and either went to the police, or were identified by the police as travelling without documents... There is a lot of trafficing, either by choice of the girl, by choice of her family, or by misleading the girl of what the job will be, from neighbouring countries into Thailand for sex work... The majority of the clientel who use their services are Thai, plus lots of other Asians (Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Malay, Singaporean) who do not have the same cultural taboo around using sex workers that western cultures generally have, and do not have the same attitude to age of consent that westerners generally have... I don't understand why the girl and her friends would take the great risk of entering Thailand without documents, rather than heading to KL for bright lights big city... Some areas in Malaysia are both fundamentally Muslim, and backward in development, and often put forward views that we find disgraceful (such as blaming the rape victim)... it is easy to link the statement and the religion, however the same views are often put forward by people from other less developed regions, with a different religion, and the blame placed upon their education... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evermaat Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 More grist for the mill. It appears the 2 girls and 4 boys had taken a ride with a Malaysian man in a white van near the border. In the article it further states it was unclear if the teens traveled into Thailand willingly or not. Some vendors at the Hua Lamphong train station gave them money to buy tickets to return home. They were caught by the police when they failed to produce travel documents (e.g. passports) and sent to the immigration police, who contacted the Malaysian embassy. Latest news details the call to her mother was on Mar. 12, the date they were arrested/rescued was March 11. Kidnap? Kids on a trip? Kids on a trip that went wrong? Let's let the police (of all countries involved) continue to investigate and see what comes of this. The rest is really speculation tainted by our own prejudices. Source: http://thestar.com.m...0449&sec=nation It never quite is the nice popular black and white story. The girl was a Rohingya refugee for a start.....probably the only interest the Thai police had was that she was Muslim.... "Thai authorities were trying to determine if an international crime syndicate was involved in this case" ..what?, like the Thai police are in some way concerned about the welfare of this girl? The Burmese don't want the Rohingya and Thailand sure doesn't want them either...... I think the "Well Done, Thai Police!" comments were at best premature. I'm guessing the OP story and followups are a face saving jesture so that Thai officials can say "see, we are proactive in the war on human trafficking" Amazing how we love to victimize people. "2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from TV android app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 In any country where whorehouses are as ubiquitous as in Thailand (actually, I think there is no country in the world that can put up numbers like Thailand), and boasts an illegal sex industry big enough to register its own line item in the national GDP, this sort of thing is bound to happen. I could guess how the 62% of the Malaysians who are Muslim would view this sort of industry and the horribly corrosive social consequences. It is one thing when it is Thais trading in Thai sex slavery. But, when Thais start trading in sex slaves from neighboring countries, does that cross a line? I have to wonder if the 95% of Thais who are Buddhists see this as something wrong. I mean, c'mon look around ... pick any Thai town ... its not like any Thais have a problem with it. Having much vaunted reputation now as the whorehouse to the world, maybe Thai Buddhists believe differently on this subject. Is it possible that Thailand's Theravada Buddhism has been hijacked and deformed to meet some nefarious designs? Or, maybe Thais are not actually Buddhists at all, they just say they are (hypocrites, either way). I guess I just don't get Buddhist values. Maybe the Thais' greed is now stronger than the Thais' Buddha. Really ashamed about that. In any country where whorehouses are as ubiquitous as in Thailand (actually, I think there is no country in the world that can put up numbers like Thailand), and boasts an illegal sex industry big enough to register its own line item in the national GDP, this sort of thing is bound to happen. I could guess how the 62% of the Malaysians who are Muslim would view this sort of industry and the horribly corrosive social consequences. It is one thing when it is Thais trading in Thai sex slavery. But, when Thais start trading in sex slaves from neighboring countries, does that cross a line? I have to wonder if the 95% of Thais who are Buddhists see this as something wrong. I mean, c'mon look around ... pick any Thai town ... its not like any Thais have a problem with it. Having much vaunted reputation now as the whorehouse to the world, maybe Thai Buddhists believe differently on this subject. Is it possible that Thailand's Theravada Buddhism has been hijacked and deformed to meet some nefarious designs? Or, maybe Thais are not actually Buddhists at all, they just say they are (hypocrites, either way). I guess I just don't get Buddhist values. Maybe the Thais' greed is now stronger than the Thais' Buddha. Really ashamed about that. I didn’t know this thread (story) was about the morality of Buddhism as it relates to prostitution in Thailand. No wonder the Thai press didn't pick up this story. What would a reasonable man think confronted with evidence that some teens had gone missing in Thailand. Sex slavery and trafficking for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prvtdetdave Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yeah, good job by the BKK Police. What about the immigration border police? What about them? Maybe, just maybe, a shed load are on the payrolls of traffickers? Bad job by the police, in that case! My first question when reading, was also asked by the Malaysian authorities, "How the hell did she get in, without paperwork?" OK, smuggled. It's still a poor job by the border police! However, glad she and her co-captured are safe. -mel. I would find it highly unlikely they had come across the Thai/Malay Border at a check point. I can't blame the Police. Police by nature are re-active rather than pro-active. There is much they could do, but funding for programs is scarce and internal corruption rampant. Maybe an effort in funding some of the reliable NGO's would work better in the proactive area of trafficking. Keep in mind I did say reliable NGO's and I can't think of any that come to mind. Although I do hope there is at least one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaowong1 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Police rescued her after she escaped on her on. Good job BIB no choice now, deer in headlight look, so could not look the other way. Thats what I was thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Police rescued her after she escaped on her on. Good job BIB no choice now, deer in headlight look, so could not look the other way. Thats what I was thinking. The Malaysian newspaper report says, "They were caught by the police at the station as they failed to produce valid travel documents and were sent to an immigration police office here, he added." Maybe that is a rescue but it sounds a lot like an arrest to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinth Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 the underlying point is, it does not matter if the girls were for the farang or thai market, they were trafficked for a market. if you have been to a thai orientated brothel full of thirteen to fifteen year old girls, the brothel protected by the BIB, you can see what a dirty trade it is. westerners prowling the streets of pattaya or elsewhere, looking for young trade, are no different to thais using these same services. I don't disbelieve that there is child prostitition going on in Thailand and I don't disagree that a few under 15 year olds slip through the net (still illegal at 17), but I don't believe such a place exists where farangs can walk in and choose from a selection of 13-14 year olds. If this came from a poster with 2 or 3 posts I would assume he/she has gone to one of these fish tank places and took a good 5 years plus off a girl's age in there. If such a place existed where farangs could walk in World Vision and the likes would have been there by now. NGO's are just bursting at the seems to find such a place in Thailand.This together with the fact that the penalties for engaging in sex with a 14 year old in Thailand makes this story incredible. The penalty I believe is 20 years in prison which is a tough sentence. Why didn't you inform an NGO organisation instead of telling this forum? "NGO's are just bursting at the seems to find such a place in Thailand" Spike, I would have to ask myself why the NGO's are not at street level instead of their air-conditioned offices doing the job they are being paid for? It isn't difficult to find these places (and believe me, I wouldn't be seeking them out) anywhere in this country. How long have these people been in Thailand, doing good in their own minds, and yet they haven't established a database? To me, it shows them up for what they are. Sorry, rant over. If the NGO's want to make a difference, then get out of their glass towers and make the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 A post advocating torture and death to the offender(s) has been removed. As ugly as this is, lets not get carried away with over blown reactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 an additional earlier article KUALA LUMPUR, March 20 (Bernama) -- The teenage girl who was found in Bangkok on March 11 after she was reported missing from her home in Shah Alam in January is currently being treated at the Universiti Malaysia Medical Centre where she is closely monitored by plain-clothed policemen. A check by Bernama at the hospital found several police personnel guarding the ward where she was being treated. Several of them were seen on standby around the hospital premises. According to a hospital source, they had to keep the victim''s condition under wraps for her safety. Continues: http://my.news.yahoo.com/kidnap-victim-closely-guarded-police-094620795.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparebox2 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 This is just a rare case. Most Prostitution place don't take Muslim girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 An off topic post and reply have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silsburyhill Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Good news story. The parents must have been absolutely distraught with worry about thier baby, I would have been climbing the walls. A young girl rescued from the being abused by sex tourists. Can't wait for all the comments about how human trafficking is a myth and the girls go into prostitution of thier own free will. Whatever makes you think a precurement like this must be for sex tourists? Or is it the thousands of establishments that exist in just about every city & town in the Kingdom, dedicated to serving the HUGE domestic / local market (which have absolutely nothing to do with sex tourism) aren't really there & don't exist? Sex tourism is just the small tip of a far larger iceberg, with the domestic market for locals being the vast mass below the waves! Good news story. The parents must have been absolutely distraught with worry about thier baby, I would have been climbing the walls. A young girl rescued from the being abused by sex tourists. Can't wait for all the comments about how human trafficking is a myth and the girls go into prostitution of thier own free will. Whatever makes you think a precurement like this must be for sex tourists? Or is it the thousands of establishments that exist in just about every city & town in the Kingdom, dedicated to serving the HUGE domestic / local market (which have absolutely nothing to do with sex tourism) aren't really there & don't exist? Sex tourism is just the small tip of a far larger iceberg, with the domestic market for locals being the vast mass below the waves! Annnnd, here we go again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Police rescued her after she escaped on her on. Good job BIB no choice now, deer in headlight look, so could not look the other way. Thats what I was thinking. The Malaysian newspaper report says, "They were caught by the police at the station as they failed to produce valid travel documents and were sent to an immigration police office here, he added." Maybe that is a rescue but it sounds a lot like an arrest to me. Elsewhere, it is reported as an arrest: They were arrested by police at the station because they failed to produce valid travel documents and taken to the Immigration Police office here, he said. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ms&u=http://cthoney.blogspot.com/2012/03/kronologi-penculikan-nazatul-fardiana.html&ei=CN5qT9vUG8-HrAfZn-20Ag&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDsQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DNazatul%2BFardiana%2BMohd%2BIzwan%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3D5ry%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1128%26bih%3D595%26tbs%3Dqdr:d%26prmd%3Dimvns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoodMaiDai Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I wonder what the group of criminal police who do this sort of thing think when good police foil their plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Off topic posts and replies have been removed. Discussion of activities of NGOs would be another topic altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 the underlying point is, it does not matter if the girls were for the farang or thai market, they were trafficked for a market. if you have been to a thai orientated brothel full of thirteen to fifteen year old girls, the brothel protected by the BIB, you can see what a dirty trade it is. westerners prowling the streets of pattaya or elsewhere, looking for young trade, are no different to thais using these same services. To me, the point is that the percentage of sexworkers servicing the farang market that were actually trafficked - in the true definition of the term - is very low. The girls actually being trafficked, internally or from neighboring countries, are 99.9% either for the locals-only brothels, or onward overseas markets. I've met freelancers that have escaped/graduated those situations and ended up marrying farang and moving overseas, but very few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) This is just a rare case. Most Prostitution place don't take Muslim girls. Absolute <deleted> in the south - except from the POV that once she's in the sex business she no longer qualifies as Muslim to many Muslims. Kidnapping from Malaysia into Thailand itself is very unusual, but the networks are very well-established here for onward transit - I'm guessing this girl was on her way to a wealthier Muslim country to a private buyer. Edited March 23, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sing_Sling Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 This is just a rare case. Most Prostitution place don't take Muslim girls. Absolute <deleted> in the south - except from the POV that once she's in the sex business she no longer qualifies as Muslim to many Muslims. Kidnapping from Malaysia into Thailand itself is very unusual, but the networks are very well-established here for onward transit - I'm guessing this girl was on her way to a wealthier Muslim country to a private buyer. This is just a rare case. Most Prostitution place don't take Muslim girls. Absolute <deleted> in the south - except from the POV that once she's in the sex business she no longer qualifies as Muslim to many Muslims. Kidnapping from Malaysia into Thailand itself is very unusual, but the networks are very well-established here for onward transit - I'm guessing this girl was on her way to a wealthier Muslim country to a private buyer. Do you really live in the 21st century? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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