Reconciliation Meet Exposes Divisiveness: Thailand

[webfact]

RECONCILIATION

Reconciliation meet exposes divisiveness

PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Key players in the so-called |reconciliation process yesterday showed how efforts to bring peace back to Thailand can turn furious, if not explosive.

At the Miracle Grand Convention Hotel, academics, politicians and a former coup leader-turned-peacemaker aspirant expressed serious disagreement over what should and should not be done. The forum ended without the one and only good sign - that it could be held at all. Before they left, participants were urged to calm down and go back to search their hearts before another meeting could take place.

General Sonthi Boonyaratkalin, the man who led the 2006 coup to oust Thaskin Shinawatra, is now trying to convince Thailand that he is now a man of peace and national reconciliation. However, it is unclear if many will follow his advice.

"Forget the past. Think about today and build the future," said Sonthi, now an MP and chairman of the House Committee on National Reconciliation.

According to Sonthi, Thailand was once "a society of love, peace and unity" but the political rift over the past six years has made things "very dangerous" and jeopardised the survival of "nationhood".

The former junta leader urged all parties to foster a climate of national reconciliation, "in order to restore peace and caring to society".

Opposition politicians who took the microphone, led by Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, were in no mood to accept the proposals made by King Prajadhipok's Institute at the request of Sonthi's committee.

Abhisit severely criticised many aspects of the report. He cited the omissions of many crucial incidents in the political conflicts. Also, proposals made by experts during KPI's interviews were never included, he said.

Two sticking points are who should be granted amnesty and what should be done about the actions of the now-defunct junta-appointed Assets Examination Committee (AEC).

Abhisit warned that KPI's proposals may in fact create more political conflicts.

"Is this reconciliation? If your answer is no, anyone who is thinking of making [such proposals] are the true opponents of reconciliation," he said.

MP Phiraphan Phalusuk, Pheu Thai Party member in the Reconciliation Committee, used the same words to criticise Abhisit, saying the former premier was only looking for defects in KPI's proposals.

Phiraphan insisted that actions taken by the AEC against Thaksin Shinawatra must be annulled as the members were appointed by the military government led by Sonthi. Abhisit argued that it was not the AEC but ultimately the courts that decided Thaksin was guilty of corruption.

Wuthisan Tanchai, leader of KPI's research team and deputy secretary-general of the Institute, acknowledged that the report had its shortcomings but it was not intended to serve any party in particular.

Wuthisan said the team is com

mitted to serving society. However, after 120 days of research, he found that the climate for national reconciliation does not yet exist.

"No matter what we propose there will be those who disagree. If we do it the other way around there will also be disagreement. The biggest support we can hope for is from people who haven't spoken," said Wuthisan.

Listening to all the heated exchanges, the man who led the coup more than five years ago later urged everyone to "reflect into their hearts and see what each of you are thinking".

"Let everyone return and create good feelings. I want to see smiles," said Sonthi, who will submit proposals on national reconciliation to Parliament by the middle of April.

-- The Nation 2012-03-22

[noitom]

What's amazing is that all these folks, leaders, are getting paid by Thai taxpayers to sit around and chew the fat. The Thai tax registrations and base are around 9 million out of a country of 65 million. The actual "taxpaying" base is closer to 2 million. So where in the world is all this money coming from to fund all these folks and their staff as well as perqs? It must be coming from the Thai black economy as money gets washed and passed through the food chain. The math is difficult to reconcile.

[WackySomchai]

There will be no reconciliation until the redshirts, the yellowshirts and the fugitive face long prison sentences for their crimes.

[Nickymaster]

There will be no reconciliation until the redshirts, the yellowshirts and the fugitive face long prison sentences for their crimes.

Thanks for posting. We will never forget.

[ballpoint]

MP Phiraphan Phalusuk, Pheu Thai Party member in the Reconciliation Committee, used the same words to criticise Abhisit, saying the former premier was only looking for defects in KPI's proposals.

A tactic common on this very forum. Don't deny the defects exist, just condemn anyone pointing them out.

[ianf]

What's amazing is that all these folks, leaders, are getting paid by Thai taxpayers to sit around and chew the fat. The Thai tax registrations and base are around 9 million out of a country of 65 million. The actual "taxpaying" base is closer to 2 million. So where in the world is all this money coming from to fund all these folks and their staff as well as perqs? It must be coming from the Thai black economy as money gets washed and passed through the food chain. The math is difficult to reconcile.

I don't think that's the issue.

[Gerryasia]

"Reconciliation" per say...is unimportant.

Adherance to "Rule of Law" is...

[phiphidon]

There will be no reconciliation until the redshirts, the yellowshirts and the fugitive face long prison sentences for their crimes.

snip

When you post videos relevant to the OP that show both sides approach to reconcilliation I might think that you care. Otherwise I just see a one sided propaganda piece more likely to stir up prejudice than foster harmony.

Edited March 22, 2012 by phiphidon

[phiphidon]

There will be no reconciliation until the redshirts, the yellowshirts and the fugitive face long prison sentences for their crimes.

irrelevant media snipped

Thanks for posting. We will never forget.

I'm not suprised you'll never forget - it was only yesterday this cut and paste job was removed from another post it had no relevance to.

Edited March 22, 2012 by phiphidon

[Buchholz]

There will be no reconciliation until the redshirts, the yellowshirts and the fugitive face long prison sentences for their crimes.

Thanks for posting. We will never forget.

Worth remembering

.

[phiphidon]

Worth remembering

.

So you won't mind if the Red Shirts get on with some remembering of their own;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/541283-red-shirts-to-mark-2nd-anniversary-of-protests/

Two years on and the Red Shirts are still sticking it to the local merchants

Oh, you do.

[Buchholz]

There will be no reconciliation until the redshirts, the yellowshirts and the fugitive face long prison sentences for their crimes.

Worth remembering

So you won't mind if the Red Shirts get on with some remembering of their own;

http://www.thaivisa....ry-of-protests/

Oh, you do.

Reading a thread on Thaivisa and remembering events depicted doesn't impact a business district in Bangkok.

.

[OzMick]

[

So you won't mind if the Red Shirts get on with some remembering of their own;

It would be appropriate if they remembered what really happened. Do you think there will be any mention of incessant hate speeches (bring your guns, burn their buildings, kill the oppressors), the armed MIB, blood pouring, hospital invasion, car bombings, burning buildings? No, it was all a teddy bears picnic until the murderous army arrived.

The word you want is "disremembering."

[yoshiwara]

There will be no reconciliation until the redshirts, the yellowshirts and the fugitive face long prison sentences for their crimes.

snip

When you post videos relevant to the OP that show both sides approach to reconcilliation I might think that you care. Otherwise I just see a one sided propaganda piece more likely to stir up prejudice than foster harmony.

The forum Thaksin apologists have a real problem with the Arisman video. Just good old Arisman talking and the crowd cheering. Never acknowledged, never referred to and certainly never disowned. They will not disown it. They defend it by shielding it. The red reconciliation is a fake turn whatever the protestations. Not exactly difficult to work out. And the remembrance? Dreaming of more of the same.

[phiphidon]

Reading a thread on Thaivisa and remembering events depicted doesn't impact a business district in Bangkok.

.

Oh yes, the old "Business is much more important than Peoples Lives" argument, a favourite here.

[phiphidon]

[

So you won't mind if the Red Shirts get on with some remembering of their own;

It would be appropriate if they remembered what really happened. Do you think there will be any mention of incessant hate speeches (bring your guns, burn their buildings, kill the oppressors), the armed MIB, blood pouring, hospital invasion, car bombings, burning buildings? No, it was all a teddy bears picnic until the murderous army arrived.

The word you want is "disremembering."

The list gets longer on each repeating, bring your guns, kill the oppressors, car bombings?

[Buchholz]

Reading a thread on Thaivisa and remembering events depicted doesn't impact a business district in Bangkok.

Oh yes, the old "Business is much more important than Peoples Lives" argument, a favourite here.

What on Earth are you talking about?

Equating the watching of a video link on Thaivisa is as disruptive as a public demonstration?

You are assigning the viewing of a YouTube clip on here as "Peoples Lives" ,

.

[phiphidon]

Reading a thread on Thaivisa and remembering events depicted doesn't impact a business district in Bangkok.

Oh yes, the old "Business is much more important than Peoples Lives" argument, a favourite here.

What on Earth are you talking about?

Equating the watching of a video link on Thaivisa is as disruptive as a public demonstration?

You are assigning the viewing of a YouTube clip on here as "Peoples Lives" ,

.

It's quite simple - your statement above states that reading a thread on tv and remembering events depicted doesn't impact a business district. This implies that a red shirt gathering to commemerate the dead does impact on a business district, which you confirm with a reply on another thread along the lines that red shirts are still disrupting traders business two years on (complete with smiley, presumably reflecting your distaste of such a situation).

I regard the commemoration of peoples lives being lost and keeping it the Public and Political consciousness (lest we forget) as important. You counter with the support of a video showing some cut and paste video footage of speeches and some buildings burning in Bangkok as something that you wish (to remember). Not a morally high position to argue from, imo.

Ergo, you regard the "loss" of business as more important than the fact that several peoples lives were lost.

[Buchholz]

Amazing Thaivisa.....

.

[rixalex]

I regard the commemoration of peoples lives being lost and keeping it the Public and Political consciousness (lest we forget) as important.

But it is not a commemoration of peoples lives being lost, it is a political point scoring game with the intention of using those lives as a symbol of a fallacy being perpetuated by the UDD (and people like you), that they are oppressed victims that bear no culpability for the death and destruction that occured in Bangkok in 2010.

[phiphidon]

Amazing Thaivisa.....

.

more intelligent debate.........

[OzMick]

[

So you won't mind if the Red Shirts get on with some remembering of their own;

It would be appropriate if they remembered what really happened. Do you think there will be any mention of incessant hate speeches (bring your guns, burn their buildings, kill the oppressors), the armed MIB, blood pouring, hospital invasion, car bombings, burning buildings? No, it was all a teddy bears picnic until the murderous army arrived.

The word you want is "disremembering."

The list gets longer on each repeating, bring your guns, kill the oppressors, car bombings?

Apparently you disremember well.

[phiphidon]

I regard the commemoration of peoples lives being lost and keeping it the Public and Political consciousness (lest we forget) as important.

But it is not a commemoration of peoples lives being lost, it is a political point scoring game with the intention of using those lives as a symbol of a fallacy being perpetuated by the UDD (and people like you), that they are oppressed victims that bear no culpability for the death and destruction that occured in Bangkok in 2010.

"perpetuated by the UDD (and people like you), that they are oppressed victims that bear no culpability for the death and destruction"

If you ever find a post from me saying that they "bear no culpability for the death and destruction" then you may have a right to accuse me of it. In the meantime................

[Buchholz]

Amazing Thaivisa.....

.

more intelligent debate.........

creates some convoluted cockamamie scenario to feebly explain his disjointed ramblings trying to somehow associate a posted video on Thaivisa with a live demonstration on the streets of Bangkok... and then decries the amazed laughing that occurs at his silly nonsense explanations.

.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Buchholz

[phiphidon]

Amazing Thaivisa.....

.

more intelligent debate.........

creates some convoluted cockamamie scenario to feebly explain his disjointed ramblings trying to somehow associate a posted video on Thaivisa with a live demonstration on the streets of Bangkok... and then decries the amazed laughing that occurs at his silly nonsense explanations.

.

Next time I'll pitch it at your level, if I can be bothered that is.

[Nickymaster]

I regard the commemoration of peoples lives being lost and keeping it the Public and Political consciousness (lest we forget) as important.

But it is not a commemoration of peoples lives being lost, it is a political point scoring game with the intention of using those lives as a symbol of a fallacy being perpetuated by the UDD (and people like you), that they are oppressed victims that bear no culpability for the death and destruction that occured in Bangkok in 2010.

Spot on!

[GentlemanJim]

Amazing Thaivisa.....

.

more intelligent debate.........

If you want to demand it, you have to be able to deliver it yourself.

Regarding your rants that the video is just a piece of propaganda, lets give you the benefit of the doubt and agree with you. Now that we agree with you can you please explain and importantly justify all those clips that the nasty little editor has put together. Please explain what justifies for the call to burn bangkok. Please justify the calls to run over members of the army with vehicles, and it's ok because they will only 'be violating the road traffic act', please justify why 1000 000 people should invade Bangkok with 1000 000 liters of gasoline to Burn it. Please justify why a peaceful protest is harbouring people that are using RPG's and weapons against the security forces. I (We) are all ears, now is your chance, you have open stage, come on and convert us, tell us why the individual clips have merit and are acceptable and if it's coherent, reasonable and justifiable, I will be wearing a red shirt tomorrow. Over to you!

Edited March 23, 2012 by GentlemanJim