I Don't Get Gay Culture

[PeaceBlondie]

This forum is not for personal insults. Can we discuss gay culture without insults, please? Of course, that goes for everybody. Thank you all.

[toptuan]

You don't have to stretch things quite that far to prove your straight-acting credentials, dearie!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one's stretching a thing, Sweetheart (ewww, sounds so femmy). When I finish my best seller (and then the follow-up movie deal of course), you'll be sorry you insulted me.

[zzap]

... but I think we need to draw a distinction between campery (which I do regard as a voluntary affectation) and effeminacy (which I agree may not be optional for many).

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True..., being somewhat effeminate and comfortable with this, I found gays were frequently misinterpreting the 'signals' when I was younger (I don't wear purple nail-varnish these days... :D ).

It says nothing about sexual orientation.

Acting 'camp' isn't necessarily a sign of being gay, either, though it traditionally is part of gay culture. It's not my 'thing', but I don't find it "grotesque", though it can get quite overbearing at times when trapped next to a queen at a party...

[thaibebop]

I understand what you are saying. But I don't know what to say to it as I am not gay, and I don't wish to speak for the community. However, I know of being apart of a demographic that makes me think to find safety I would have to relocate to the moon. I am a white yank, enemy number one for the world. And I really wonder why "my" people just can't stop fcking up and making things worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe, I think we all are holding our collective breaths as a planet for that to stop

It seems my country and others are trying to catch up on the world domination thing at a very rapid rate though.

Please take me with you when you relocate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure, you bring the marshmallows for the camp out on the darkside of the moon, and I'll bring the drinks.

[Guest endure]

All I can say is that if I frighten people off they must be wilting flowers indeed and they probably aren't suited to a public life online.

[thaibebop]

All I can say is that if I frighten people off they must be wilting flowers indeed and they probably aren't suited to a public life online. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You scare me.

It's the teddy bears.

[Guest endure]

All I can say is that if I frighten people off they must be wilting flowers indeed and they probably aren't suited to a public life online.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You scare me.

It's the teddy bears.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Ijustwannateach]

You don't have to stretch things quite that far to prove your straight-acting credentials, dearie!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one's stretching a thing, Sweetheart (ewww, sounds so femmy). When I finish my best seller (and then the follow-up movie deal of course), you'll be sorry you insulted me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For such a famous he-man, you sure do have a fragile ego if you found my post insulting! It was meant for a larf! Mellow out!

"Steven"

[toptuan]

You don't have to stretch things quite that far to prove your straight-acting credentials, dearie!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one's stretching a thing, Sweetheart (ewww, sounds so femmy). When I finish my best seller (and then the follow-up movie deal of course), you'll be sorry you insulted me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For such a famous he-man, you sure do have a fragile ego if you found my post insulting! It was meant for a larf! Mellow out!

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know Steven. Most people feel a little miffed when someone suggests they're telling less than the truth.

Maybe it's a semantic thing. In my culture "stretching" implies a ring of untruth. Perhaps you only meant I was working too hard to make a point. No hard feelings.

And, hey--now you know I have a sensitive side too (ah, the "gay-ness" comes out after all).

[thaibebop]

You don't have to stretch things quite that far to prove your straight-acting credentials, dearie!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one's stretching a thing, Sweetheart (ewww, sounds so femmy). When I finish my best seller (and then the follow-up movie deal of course), you'll be sorry you insulted me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For such a famous he-man, you sure do have a fragile ego if you found my post insulting! It was meant for a larf! Mellow out!

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know Steven. Most people feel a little miffed when someone suggests they're telling less than the truth.

Maybe it's a semantic thing. In my culture "stretching" implies a ring of untruth. Perhaps you only meant I was working too hard to make a point. No hard feelings.

And, hey--now you know I have a sensitive side too (ah, the "gay-ness" comes out after all).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know, most of the Gays and Queens I knew were more hard edge than the gutter punks I knew. Therefore I have never attached soft and gay together.

[DUMPSTER]

endure you totally miss the point. I think the forum would be a lot healthier if it attracted more 25 year olds instead of what seems like the 55 + brigade who are only interested in paying for Thai boys to be their b/f.

They say variety is the spice of life and I for one think it's great to get views and opinions from all walks of life instead of a fragmented view from a few.

You might like the old boy’s network but this is a public forum and a 25 year old Swedish newbie’s post deserves the same respect as an old man who lives with his mother and sends money every month to his b/f.

DrMoggles post was very interesting, not controversial, as you point out, and received some good replies.

Many guys seem the need to justify the fact that they are gay, insecurity about themselves maybe a factor in this. Young guys being camp and acting up is one thing but I have always found older camp guys very confusing and I have never really understood the need to behave in a camp way. Though I must say I am not entirely sure if it’s an act or their true self. But the whole limp wrist thing for me is not a pleasant sight and I tend to avoid people like this but hey each to their own.

Edited December 20, 2005 by DUMPSTER

[Ijustwannateach]

Funny, I don't know that many 55+ types with paid boyfriends on here.... I think we've got quite a balance of ages and lifestyles represented.

Speaking of which, what happened to our OP? He seems to be the most well-balanced of all our newbies....

Toptuan, since you are apparently pretty sensitive about your fame (which, ironically, most of the truly famous people I have known were not), I won't comment further except to say that making wildly hyperbolic claims about one's life history (I'm Superman/Indiana Jones/Elvis, I've got a movie deal about my lifestory, I'm so special) is a bit rude and boorish at best [and if you're in the habit of making statements like that, I'm surprised you're not used to a bit of ribbing by now], and frankly, I wouldn't care if they were true. What counts on a forum is how you think and express yourself- which you're doing pretty well on other issues, generally, as far as I'm concerned.

Well, and back to the topic? I think there's plenty of room for all the different "gay lifestyles," such as they are. The most campy and outrageous one gets the most attention, but I think it's far from being the most common one for gays in any country. Perhaps as a gay community we need to spend more of our energy publicising the fact, rather than looking askance at our nellier brethren...

"Steven"

[toptuan]

Toptuan, since you are apparently pretty sensitive about your fame (which, ironically, most of the truly famous people I have known were not), I won't comment further except to say that making wildly hyperbolic claims about one's life history (I'm Superman/Indiana Jones/Elvis, I've got a movie deal about my lifestory, I'm so special) is a bit rude and boorish at best [and if you're in the habit of making statements like that, I'm surprised you're not used to a bit of ribbing by now], and frankly, I wouldn't care if they were true.  What counts on a forum is how you think and express yourself- which you're doing pretty well on other issues, generally, as far as I'm concerned.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Steven, I'm not famous nor claim Elvis/Superman/Jones status. You're getting pretty close to "hyperbolic" and flaming yourself to make a point. Just calm down, ok? What is this intense strong reaction? If your life is boring, at least let other's live theirs...

[toptuan]

P.S. the "best-seller" and "movie" references were, what I thought, obvious tongue-in-cheek. I thought you might be perceptive enough to realize that. I guess not.

[PeaceBlondie]

Why, just today, Steven Speilberg called me to discuss the rights to my novel, and asked if I could play the leading role.........not.

Oh well, at least the lead in the story is a gay man over 50.

Pacifists and Communists have a terrible habit of bickering among themselves so much that they're unable to fight their common enemy. The opposition calls it 'divide and conquer.'

I welcome younger posters, because I missed out on all that other stuff, and you guys have figured out things I still don't understand.

[toptuan]

Why, just today, Steven Speilberg called me to discuss the rights to my novel, and asked if I could play the leading role.........not.

Oh well, at least the lead in the story is a gay man over 50. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Peace, If Speilberg thinks you're good material, why don't we co-star--as long as you let me list my name first in the credits? (On the other hand I'm afeared WannaTeach could have an aneurism over it...I vote for keeping peace on the old boys' network, here. Our moment of fame will have to wait....)

Edited December 20, 2005 by toptuan

[Guest endure]

Speaking of which, what happened to our OP?  He seems to be the most well-balanced of all our newbies....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, he does pop in for a quick look every day...

[toptuan]

Moggles, one thing you just can't escape in the gay world (whether you're in the macho or femme camp) is all this bitchiness. This thread, case in point.

I'm gettin' outta here before someone accuses me of any sorta gay stereotype. Ewwwwwwww!

[Guest endure]

If you think this is bitchy you ought to go and have a read of the Dark Side

[DUMPSTER]

toptuan this is hardly bitchy. A few forthright characters with strong views on life, I would say, but not bitchy because we are not allowed to be just ask the peacemaker, peaceblondie.

[DrMoggles]

Speaking of which, what happened to our OP?  He seems to be the most well-balanced of all our newbies....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, he does pop in for a quick look every day...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe, I'm still here, lurking in the shadows

I'm very grateful for all the insightful replies I got and kind of surprised since it had all been discussed previously.

I will follow the same path.

Post when I think I can contribute to a thread or the next time I don't get something

Next I need to overcome my fear of karaoke!

[Guest endure]

Next I need to overcome my fear of karaoke!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That'll need a lifetime of effort

[thaibebop]

Speaking of which, what happened to our OP?  He seems to be the most well-balanced of all our newbies....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, he does pop in for a quick look every day...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe, I'm still here, lurking in the shadows

I'm very grateful for all the insightful replies I got and kind of surprised since it had all been discussed previously.

I will follow the same path.

Post when I think I can contribute to a thread or the next time I don't get something

Next I need to overcome my fear of karaoke! ALCOHOL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[toptuan]

ALCOHOL.

...it'll also improve any timidity connected with your Thai linguistic ability, too. A couple shots, and "pasaat Thai" just rolls off my tongue. Totally uninhibited. Totally unintelligible.

[thaibebop]

ALCOHOL.

...it'll also improve any timidity connected with your Thai linguistic ability, too. A couple shots, and "pasaat Thai" just rolls off my tongue. Totally uninhibited. Totally unintelligible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure that's Thai?

[Ijustwannateach]

Moggles, one thing you just can't escape in the gay world (whether you're in the macho or femme camp) is all this bitchiness.  This thread, case in point. 

I'm gettin' outta here before someone accuses me of any sorta gay stereotype.  Ewwwwwwww!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For a macho man, you're really a drama queen!

(bwahahaha- how's that for gay stereotypes!)

Well, I must admit that I appear to be mistaken- I mean, despite the fact that you said you WERE Indiana Jones and that you had a book and movie deal, I stupidly did not recognise that your words meant something else. Can you publish a code book next time so that we know that "I am Indiana Jones" means "I am not Indiana Jones," and that when you post a serious, huffy message regarding your book deal that there is no book deal, etc., etc. On the other hand- a smiley or two often indicates that you are being humourous/ironic even when there is no indication of such otherwise in the text (hint, hint).

[Ijustwannateach]

Speaking of which, what happened to our OP?  He seems to be the most well-balanced of all our newbies....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, he does pop in for a quick look every day...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe, I'm still here, lurking in the shadows

I'm very grateful for all the insightful replies I got and kind of surprised since it had all been discussed previously.

I will follow the same path.

Post when I think I can contribute to a thread or the next time I don't get something

Next I need to overcome my fear of karaoke!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you're actually here in Bangkok, I'd be happy to meet up with you at one of the standard places and chat about the scene with you. Chances are, even if you meet very intellectual/political Thai guys your age either their English or your Thai will not be sufficient to have any meaningful conversation initially. I'd suggest trying to concentrate your intellectual friendships among older gays (which are plentiful) and let the Thais take care of other kinds of needs, at least until your Thai is a lot better- unless you're interested in dating somewhat older Thais, many of whom speak great English and are very politically astute.

"Steven"

[toptuan]

Moggles, one thing you just can't escape in the gay world (whether you're in the macho or femme camp) is all this bitchiness.  This thread, case in point. 

I'm gettin' outta here before someone accuses me of any sorta gay stereotype.  Ewwwwwwww!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For a macho man, you're really a drama queen!

(bwahahaha- how's that for gay stereotypes!)

Well, I must admit that I appear to be mistaken- I mean, despite the fact that you said you WERE Indiana Jones and that you had a book and movie deal, I stupidly did not recognise that your words meant something else. Can you publish a code book next time so that we know that "I am Indiana Jones" means "I am not Indiana Jones," and that when you post a serious, huffy message regarding your book deal that there is no book deal, etc., etc. On the other hand- a smiley or two often indicates that you are being humourous/ironic even when there is no indication of such otherwise in the text (hint, hint).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wanna, I must have really touched a raw nerve, talking about "macho" vs. "femme" stereotypes. You just can't let it go, can you? Did I unleash some sort of identity crisis in your psyche? Are you Harvey Fiersten trapped in a Mike the Rock WWF outfit, or a John Wayne trying to tear himself loose from an Elton John lacy blouse? Your style is bordering on the paranoia. Here, this might help get ya back on balance again. Otherwise, at the very least, thanks for continuing to illustrate my point about "bitchiness."

Please tell me, where in the hel_l did I say I was Indiana Jones? If you're memory is actually fading, try reading the post again. When you go back to the post, you'll notice that "you don't have to stretch things quite that far to prove your..." point, to quote a famous gay forum author. And this thing about faces: You GOTTA have the FACES to get the point? If you need the smiley faces to identify what everyone else recognizes as pretty obvious self-satire, I teach a basic composition class you should consider signing up for.

Wanna, most of your postings I really enjoy on the forum, but this vitriolic side of you is quite a surprise, and really quite unbecoming a mature gay man of your forum stature. Go ahead and drivel on if you must, but I'm "hanging up my spurs" on this thread (if you can stomach the Clint Eastwood quote). Your cyber-tantrum is not worth replying to hereafter.

P.S. Insert this smiley face after "lacy blouse" above. My one concession. (Ok, two concessions.)

[Ijustwannateach]

I enjoyed working on my car, outdoor sports, martial arts, hunting, backpacking with the guys in the mountains-- basically enjoying "guy" things.  I loved risk-taking:  starting my own businesses, a wild snowboard ride down a mountain side (hoping to start an avalanche that I could outrace),  traveling to marginally dangerous countries for the thrill of adventure.  I've faced angry Soviet border guards (who were confiscating my camera),  a threatening Palestinian militant,  and faced the unfriendly ends of US national guard rifles (Berkely, circa 1969).  Indiana Jones was my hero (although archeology was never my thing).  I haven't "acted" this part--it was (and is) genuinely me.  [Alert! Understatement coming!...]  Not the gay stereotype in everyone's mind at the time.

In retrospect, you're not exactly saying that Indiana Jones was you in the sense of A=B, but you're implying very much the same thing. And I don't think *I*'m the one with a touched nerve!

In any case, I think we're probably boring the other forumites, so I agree it's time to drop it.

"Steven"

[DUMPSTER]

toptuan wrote this about Steven: You just can't let it go, can you? Did I unleash some sort of identity crisis in your psyche? Are you Harvey Fiersten trapped in a Mike the Rock WWF outfit, or a John Wayne trying to tear himself loose from an Elton John lacy blouse? Your style is bordering on the paranoia.

toptuan you are not the first to have experienced this kind of behavior. I have been subjected to it as well, so your not alone. I'm not sure if it's a test for those who haven't posted over 500 posts or it's a case of "I've been in Thailand too long" Maybe I'm wrong. Is there another reason for this behavior?