French police kill gunman responsible for school shooting

[News_Editor]

French police kill gunman responsible for school shooting

2012-03-23 08:53:55 GMT+7 (ICT)

TOULOUSE, FRANCE (BNO NEWS) -- The French gunman behind Monday's shootings at a Jewish school, and allegedly behind the recent attacks against soldiers, was confirmed dead after several hours of confrontation with police forces, local authorities said Thursday.

Mohamed Merah, 23, was killed after a police surrounded the gunman at an apartment in Toulouse, France since the early hours of Wednesday morning, at around 3 a.m. local time.

Merah had confessed of opening fire at the Ozar Hatorah school in the Roseraie District of Toulouse, which resulted in the death of four people, including a Rabbi and three children. Police forces were trying to negotiate his surrender, but communication was suddenly lost for around 12 hours.

Police forces decided to slowly enter the apartment when Merah, who had been sitting quiet, opened fire. With hundreds of security forces surrounding the apartment, an exchange of fire continued, and shortly before noon on Thursday, police said the gunman was dead.

A large number of firearms were recovered at the apartment, as well as a video recording of Monday's attack at the school. It remains uncertain how Merah was able to gather such a large collection of weapons since he had been under close supervision because he had been linked with Islamic extremist groups in the Middle East.

Monday's shooting had come just eight days after a soldier was shot dead in Toulouse as well. And last Friday, only four days after the first incident, a similar shooting in not far from Toulouse in Montauban, resulted in the death of another three soldiers.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2012-03-23

[geriatrickid]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

[bigbamboo]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

TBH, who cares? He doesn't deserve to have his burial rights respected.

[Steely Dan]

I'm more interested in the so called observation he was supposed to be under, he escaped detention in Afghanistan and was on an American no-fly list but he still was able to murder 7 people. If the Thai authorities had been responsible for tracking him and 7 deaths resulted people would be having a field day condemning them. I think a few answers should be given a.s.a.p.

[phomsanuk]

They waited to try to get him alive so he could talk in the end they shot him in the head, he might have survived the fall, some marksman is in big trouble, poor discipline as he was no threat falling. Viva la France

[geriatrickid]

They waited to try to get him alive so he could talk in the end they shot him in the head, he might have survived the fall, some marksman is in big trouble, poor discipline as he was no threat falling. Viva la France

Apparently he did wound 2 of the officers as they went after him in the final assault,Not much you can do with someone that says he intends to go out with his guns blazing. it does provide a nice closure. Now he won't talk and risk embarrassing the French or upsetting his local North African community. Win win for the French.

[trainman34014]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

I think the Yanks started a new trend of burial at sea for these creeps !

[OzMick]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

IMHO they should study his brain to see if they can identify abnormal areas which would lead to extreme violence and belief of bronze age religions.

Why should anybody respect the burial tenets of his religion when tenets of the same religion led him to violate the LIVING rights of others, including 3 young children. In fact, why should his religious beliefs have any more credence than mine - and I believe that the bodies of murderous terrorists should be left to rot in the sun as per ancient burial practice of Zoroastrianism, the world's oldest monotheistic religion.

[nurofiend]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

IMHO they should study his brain to see if they can identify abnormal areas which would lead to extreme violence and belief of bronze age religions.

Why should anybody respect the burial tenets of his religion when tenets of the same religion led him to violate the LIVING rights of others, including 3 young children. In fact, why should his religious beliefs have any more credence than mine - and I believe that the bodies of murderous terrorists should be left to rot in the sun as per ancient burial practice of Zoroastrianism, the world's oldest monotheistic religion.

why should anybody respect the burial tenets of any religion?

when every main religion has a history of violating "the LIVING rights of others" ????

Edited March 24, 2012 by nurofiend

[OzMick]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

IMHO they should study his brain to see if they can identify abnormal areas which would lead to extreme violence and belief of bronze age religions.

Why should anybody respect the burial tenets of his religion when tenets of the same religion led him to violate the LIVING rights of others, including 3 young children. In fact, why should his religious beliefs have any more credence than mine - and I believe that the bodies of murderous terrorists should be left to rot in the sun as per ancient burial practice of Zoroastrianism, the world's oldest monotheistic religion.

why should anybody respect the burial tenets of any religion?

when every main religion has a history of violating "the LIVING rights of others" ????

As a confirmed atheist, I concur absolutely.

[nurofiend]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

IMHO they should study his brain to see if they can identify abnormal areas which would lead to extreme violence and belief of bronze age religions.

Why should anybody respect the burial tenets of his religion when tenets of the same religion led him to violate the LIVING rights of others, including 3 young children. In fact, why should his religious beliefs have any more credence than mine - and I believe that the bodies of murderous terrorists should be left to rot in the sun as per ancient burial practice of Zoroastrianism, the world's oldest monotheistic religion.

why should anybody respect the burial tenets of any religion?

when every main religion has a history of violating "the LIVING rights of others" ????

As a confirmed atheist, I concur absolutely.

i think that's a first, for both of us...

[Steely Dan]

Aw, I think he just had an unfortunate upbringing, how about a minutes silence for the mass murder as oppose to his victims.

Meanwhile an English teacher sparked outrage across France yesterday after calling for her pupils to observe a minute’s silence for Merah.

In disturbing scenes at Gustave Flaubert High School in Rouen, Normandy, Lorraine Collin, 56, described the terrorist as being the ‘victim of an unhappy childhood’.

This prompted up to 15 pupils aged between 17 and 18 to storm out of their classroom and report Ms Collin to their headmaster.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1q1JaCaWn

Yes, there are elements of the lib-left who are so far beneath contempt it boggles the mind.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Steely Dan

[Colin Yai]

Aw, I think he just had an unfortunate upbringing, how about a minutes silence for the mass murder as oppose to his victims.

Meanwhile an English teacher sparked outrage across France yesterday after calling for her pupils to observe a minute’s silence for Merah.

In disturbing scenes at Gustave Flaubert High School in Rouen, Normandy, Lorraine Collin, 56, described the terrorist as being the ‘victim of an unhappy childhood’.

This prompted up to 15 pupils aged between 17 and 18 to storm out of their classroom and report Ms Collin to their headmaster.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1q1JaCaWn

Yes, there are elements of the lib-left who are so far beneath contempt it boggles the mind.

Only up to 15 Dan?, That could well mean that the remaining pupils agreed with this left wing lunatic ,I dispare I really do ,this sort of thing is on the increase ,the dangerous part of it is that this sort of infantile brainwashing starts at a very early age, many Muslim kids are taught to hate European Culture ,and many Europeans are taught to be ashamed of it "lest they offend" , The end result?, you tell me!! Edited March 24, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Steely Dan]

Only up to 15 Dan?, That could well mean that the remaining pupils agreed with this left wing lunatic ,I dispare I really do ,this sort of thing is on the increase ,the dangerous part of it is that this sort of infantile brainwashing starts at a very early age, many Muslim kids are taught to hate European Culture ,and many Europeans are taught to be ashamed of it "lest they offend" , The end result?, you tell me!!

I can't tell you as it would be ruled hate speech, as would most of Winston Churchills warnings about national socialism had it been on the rise in 2012 as oppose to the 1930's. If you really want to know what I think google 'Sultan knish The New' and you will see the sad reality spelled out as it is in France and indeed Europe today.

[Colin Yai]

Only up to 15 Dan?, That could well mean that the remaining pupils agreed with this left wing lunatic ,I dispare I really do ,this sort of thing is on the increase ,the dangerous part of it is that this sort of infantile brainwashing starts at a very early age, many Muslim kids are taught to hate European Culture ,and many Europeans are taught to be ashamed of it "lest they offend" , The end result?, you tell me!!

I can't tell you as it would be ruled hate speech, as would most of Winston Churchills warnings about national socialism had it been on the rise in 2012 as oppose to the 1930's. If you really want to know what I think google 'Sultan knish The New' and you will see the sad reality spelled out as it is in France and indeed Europe today.

Powerful stuff Dan and riveting reading(thanks), I thought the name "News Nazi's" just about said it all , Complacency and total appeasement in the world in the name of left wing political correctness ,appears to be the order of the day .

[geriatrickid]

Only up to 15 Dan?, That could well mean that the remaining pupils agreed with this left wing lunatic ,I dispare I really do ,this sort of thing is on the increase ,the dangerous part of it is that this sort of infantile brainwashing starts at a very early age, many Muslim kids are taught to hate European Culture ,and many Europeans are taught to be ashamed of it "lest they offend" , The end result?, you tell me!!

I can't tell you as it would be ruled hate speech, as would most of Winston Churchills warnings about national socialism had it been on the rise in 2012 as oppose to the 1930's. If you really want to know what I think google 'Sultan knish The New' and you will see the sad reality spelled out as it is in France and indeed Europe today.

Sultan Knish?

Seriously?

Sounds like a Borat routine.

You need to google a knishe to understand. Sort of like perogies, but not as heavy.

[Colin Yai]

Only up to 15 Dan?, That could well mean that the remaining pupils agreed with this left wing lunatic ,I dispare I really do ,this sort of thing is on the increase ,the dangerous part of it is that this sort of infantile brainwashing starts at a very early age, many Muslim kids are taught to hate European Culture ,and many Europeans are taught to be ashamed of it "lest they offend" , The end result?, you tell me!!

I can't tell you as it would be ruled hate speech, as would most of Winston Churchills warnings about national socialism had it been on the rise in 2012 as oppose to the 1930's. If you really want to know what I think google 'Sultan knish The New' and you will see the sad reality spelled out as it is in France and indeed Europe today.

Sultan Knish?

Seriously?

Sounds like a Borat routine.

You need to google a knishe to understand. Sort of like perogies, but not as heavy.

Why Not Google it up? ,then you may be more enlightened as to the point Steely is trying to make .

[Steely Dan]

Only up to 15 Dan?, That could well mean that the remaining pupils agreed with this left wing lunatic ,I dispare I really do ,this sort of thing is on the increase ,the dangerous part of it is that this sort of infantile brainwashing starts at a very early age, many Muslim kids are taught to hate European Culture ,and many Europeans are taught to be ashamed of it "lest they offend" , The end result?, you tell me!!

I can't tell you as it would be ruled hate speech, as would most of Winston Churchills warnings about national socialism had it been on the rise in 2012 as oppose to the 1930's. If you really want to know what I think google 'Sultan knish The New' and you will see the sad reality spelled out as it is in France and indeed Europe today.

Sultan Knish?

Seriously?

Sounds like a Borat routine.

You need to google a knishe to understand. Sort of like perogies, but not as heavy.

Alas, the content is even heavier than perogies, but on a lighter if off topic note there was an unfortunate mix up at a medal ceremony in Kuwait where a Kazakhstan medal winner was played the spoof national anthem from the film Borat, presumably by mistake.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17491344

[JemJem]

I first said 'Good riddance' for this Islamofascist terrorist but actually it would have been much better if he had been caught alive and then made to talk and I am sure more potential terrorists would have been caught afterwards. He may have acted alone in his terror acts but it is certain that he had connections to some terror cells.

It is appropriate for such men to get a life sentence (with no chance of parole) and spend the rest of their lives in a small cell 24 hours a day.

By the way, shame on the Norweigian system which will probably enable that Christian fascist terrorist Breivik to go free after about 20 years in jail (or in a mental institution where he will not have it so tough).

Jem

[Lite Beer]

RT@SkyNewsBreak: AFP: Lawyer says brother of Toulouse gunman to be brought before judge

[folium]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

IMHO they should study his brain to see if they can identify abnormal areas which would lead to extreme violence and belief of bronze age religions.

Why should anybody respect the burial tenets of his religion when tenets of the same religion led him to violate the LIVING rights of others, including 3 young children. In fact, why should his religious beliefs have any more credence than mine - and I believe that the bodies of murderous terrorists should be left to rot in the sun as per ancient burial practice of Zoroastrianism, the world's oldest monotheistic religion.

Bronze age religions? I presume you are referring to Islam, which missed the Bronze Age by about 1000 years.

Fundamentalists of any faith and extremists in general are not the most attractive types and when they resort to violence are beyond contempt.

Sadly your intemperate response is exactly that desired by terrorists and would only act as a brilliant recruiting tool for more extremists.

Edited March 25, 2012 by folium

[Colin Yai]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

IMHO they should study his brain to see if they can identify abnormal areas which would lead to extreme violence and belief of bronze age religions.

Why should anybody respect the burial tenets of his religion when tenets of the same religion led him to violate the LIVING rights of others, including 3 young children. In fact, why should his religious beliefs have any more credence than mine - and I believe that the bodies of murderous terrorists should be left to rot in the sun as per ancient burial practice of Zoroastrianism, the world's oldest monotheistic religion.

Bronze age religions? I presume you are referring to Islam, which missed the Bronze Age by about 1000 years.

Fundamentalists of any faith and extremists in general are not the most attractive types and when they resort to violence are beyond contempt.

Sadly your intemperate response is exactly that desired by terrorists and would only act as a brilliant recruiting tool for more extremists.

Knowing Mick or "kiddo" like I think I do, I hardly think they should be considered as a "recruiting tool" for more(Islamic) extremists Edited March 25, 2012 by Colin Yai

[folium]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

IMHO they should study his brain to see if they can identify abnormal areas which would lead to extreme violence and belief of bronze age religions.

Why should anybody respect the burial tenets of his religion when tenets of the same religion led him to violate the LIVING rights of others, including 3 young children. In fact, why should his religious beliefs have any more credence than mine - and I believe that the bodies of murderous terrorists should be left to rot in the sun as per ancient burial practice of Zoroastrianism, the world's oldest monotheistic religion.

Bronze age religions? I presume you are referring to Islam, which missed the Bronze Age by about 1000 years.

Fundamentalists of any faith and extremists in general are not the most attractive types and when they resort to violence are beyond contempt.

Sadly your intemperate response is exactly that desired by terrorists and would only act as a brilliant recruiting tool for more extremists.

Knowing Mick like I think I do, I hardly think he should be considered as a "recruiting tool" for more(Islamic) extremists

The law of unintended consequences is sadly the fate of many misguided responses to situations. Knee-jerk, neanderthal responses to terrorism, only serve to make the "good" guys look as bad as the terrorists, and achieve exactly what the "bad" guys set out to achieve.

Fighting "bad" guys is hard enough, made more difficult by lame responses and ill-disciplined behaviour, see Abu Ghraib, etc for such sad examples.

It's easy from a comfy chair to be a chickenhawk, try picking up the pieces.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Please stick to the topic of the OP.

Make that two posts removed.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Scott
note added

[Steely Dan]

The law of unintended consequences is sadly the fate of many misguided responses to situations. Knee-jerk, neanderthal responses to terrorism, only serve to make the "good" guys look as bad as the terrorists, and achieve exactly what the "bad" guys set out to achieve.

Perhaps the law of unintended consequences could work both ways and perhaps result in enough social anger for the indigenous French to do something radical like elect Marine Le Pen. I suspect it is only a matter of time before a major European nation duly elects a far right party and then the clash of civilizations can begin in earnest, though I would observe that it has already started but our leaders and press are still in denial.

[folium]

The law of unintended consequences is sadly the fate of many misguided responses to situations. Knee-jerk, neanderthal responses to terrorism, only serve to make the "good" guys look as bad as the terrorists, and achieve exactly what the "bad" guys set out to achieve.

Perhaps the law of unintended consequences could work both ways and perhaps result in enough social anger for the indigenous French to do something radical like elect Marine Le Pen. I suspect it is only a matter of time before a major European nation duly elects a far right party and then the clash of civilizations can begin in earnest, though I would observe that it has already started but our leaders and press are still in denial.

And that is exactly the tragic trap that the likes of al Qaida want to achieve. Gloriously sidelined in the current turmoil enveloping the Arab world in particular, a slide into neo-con short-sightedness by any "developed" nation would represent a major triumph for the terrorists.

I love your use of the word "indigenous", do you mean just white people or do you have a cut off date for what makes someone "indigenous". Are Patrice Evra, Florent Malouda, Thierry Henry, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole etc "indigenous" enough?

The great irony about this murdering individual, Mohammed Merah, is that the 3 French soldiers he murdered were Master Sergeant Imad Ibn-Ziaten, Corporal Abel Chennouf, and Private Mohamed Legouad. Were they "indigenous" enough to serve their country?

[Steely Dan]

The law of unintended consequences is sadly the fate of many misguided responses to situations. Knee-jerk, neanderthal responses to terrorism, only serve to make the "good" guys look as bad as the terrorists, and achieve exactly what the "bad" guys set out to achieve.

Perhaps the law of unintended consequences could work both ways and perhaps result in enough social anger for the indigenous French to do something radical like elect Marine Le Pen. I suspect it is only a matter of time before a major European nation duly elects a far right party and then the clash of civilizations can begin in earnest, though I would observe that it has already started but our leaders and press are still in denial.

And that is exactly the tragic trap that the likes of al Qaida want to achieve. Gloriously sidelined in the current turmoil enveloping the Arab world in particular, a slide into neo-con short-sightedness by any "developed" nation would represent a major triumph for the terrorists.

I love your use of the word "indigenous", do you mean just white people or do you have a cut off date for what makes someone "indigenous". Are Patrice Evra, Florent Malouda, Thierry Henry, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole etc "indigenous" enough?

The great irony about this murdering individual, Mohammed Merah, is that the 3 French soldiers he murdered were Master Sergeant Imad Ibn-Ziaten, Corporal Abel Chennouf, and Private Mohamed Legouad. Were they "indigenous" enough to serve their country?

I think not burning the flag of the host nation, grooming it's underaged girls as if they were cattle and not setting up virtual no go zones in cities for other minorities disapproved of would be a loose enough definition of indigenous, I was actually referring to a cultural rather than racial or religious identification with the Country . By the way it has not escaped my notice that three of those murdered were Muslims, or that one had a girlfriend currently expecting his child. I do not desire a clash of civilizations but if you examine population demographics in tandem with the social attitudes of the Muslim population as a whole you could make a conservative estimate that there are already thousands of would be lone wolf jihaddists in France alone and unless the aforementioned social attitudes change I see a spiral of escalating violence as inevitable. What would you suggest by the way?

Edit: I don't want to stray too far O/T but I don't thing Al Qaeda were sidelined in Libya, or their proxies elsewhere during the so called Arab spring.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Steely Dan

[koheesti]

Considering the deceased's lengthy juvenile offender record and a history of violence, it isn't surprising he met a violent end. The shame is that he had to kill so many before he died.

The question now is whether or not his body is released within 24 hours to respect muslim burial rites and who will claim his body. His mother wanted nothing to do with him and refused to assist the police trying to talk him into surrendering. Where does he get buried? Toulouse where the burial plot risks becoming a martyr's tomb, or perhaps back to Algeria?

I think the Yanks started a new trend of burial at sea for these creeps !

The difference this time around is that there is actually a body.

Edited March 25, 2012 by koheesti

[folium]

The law of unintended consequences is sadly the fate of many misguided responses to situations. Knee-jerk, neanderthal responses to terrorism, only serve to make the "good" guys look as bad as the terrorists, and achieve exactly what the "bad" guys set out to achieve.

Perhaps the law of unintended consequences could work both ways and perhaps result in enough social anger for the indigenous French to do something radical like elect Marine Le Pen. I suspect it is only a matter of time before a major European nation duly elects a far right party and then the clash of civilizations can begin in earnest, though I would observe that it has already started but our leaders and press are still in denial.

And that is exactly the tragic trap that the likes of al Qaida want to achieve. Gloriously sidelined in the current turmoil enveloping the Arab world in particular, a slide into neo-con short-sightedness by any "developed" nation would represent a major triumph for the terrorists.

I love your use of the word "indigenous", do you mean just white people or do you have a cut off date for what makes someone "indigenous". Are Patrice Evra, Florent Malouda, Thierry Henry, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole etc "indigenous" enough?

The great irony about this murdering individual, Mohammed Merah, is that the 3 French soldiers he murdered were Master Sergeant Imad Ibn-Ziaten, Corporal Abel Chennouf, and Private Mohamed Legouad. Were they "indigenous" enough to serve their country?

I think not burning the flag of the host nation, grooming it's underaged girls as if they were cattle and not setting up virtual no go zones in cities for other minorities disapproved of would be a loose enough definition of indigenous, I was actually referring to a cultural rather than racial or religious identification with the Country . By the way it has not escaped my notice that three of those murdered were Muslims, or that one had a girlfriend currently expecting his child. I do not desire a clash of civilizations but if you examine population demographics in tandem with the social attitudes of the Muslim population as a whole you could make a conservative estimate that there are already thousands of would be lone wolf jihaddists in France alone and unless the aforementioned social attitudes change I see a spiral of escalating violence as inevitable. What would you suggest by the way?

Immigration today is not on the scale of that found in the mid to late 19th century as a proportion of total population. The destination of most of those migrants...the USA. Where the German Americans represented the largest root stock of all the ethnic groups that composed the USA. And what happened in the next century those same German American twice fought their original homeland. Why, because they had been integrated into US society. Were all German Americans so integrated, no, hence the resistance of some German Americans to US entry into both World Wars on the "wrong side" as they saw it.

Immigration is a fact of life in most societies, just look at how "Thai" the Thais really are or the same for many nations today. Obviously it brings challenges as well as opportunities, but as the US shows in the low number of home-grown terrorists compared to Europe, a country that integrates its citizens better suffers less follow-through.

I'm no apologist for the US and the ironic situation that many migrant groups are integrated better and treated better than AfricanAmericans.

Samuel Huntington and his "Clash of Civilizations" was bedtime reading for Bush jnr, Cheney and the other neocon chickenhawks, but totally ovelooked the fact that there is no monolithic "western civilization", let alone an "Islamic civilization". It's all way too simple and derivative, much as the Nazi claim to Aryan purity was so laughable when you consider that the original Aryans originated from India!

If the FN in France or the BNP in the UK ever held real political power heaven help all of us.

What these tragic murders in France underline is that many muslims are well integrated into French society (ie the 3 murderd soldiers), but some need to be brought into the fold not excluded by clash of civilization nonsense.

Edited March 25, 2012 by folium

[koheesti]

Knee-jerk, neanderthal responses to terrorism, only serve to make the "good" guys look as bad as the terrorists, and achieve exactly what the "bad" guys set out to achieve.

If it were their true intention I'm sure bin Laden and friends could have picked an easier way to be hunted down and killed.