Uk Visa - Special Circumstances

[wayner]

A friend of mine has been diagnosed with throat cancer in Laos, he needs to return to the UK to get treatment (no funds left for treatment in Laos or Thailand). His mother is in local care in the UK and there's nowhere for him to stay as yet. He needs to get a visa for his Lao wife to join him with their 2 children - needless to say he's very worried and needs to act fast. Is there a chance he can get her visa on special grounds? If so is there a particular number/contact in Bangkok to help understand what needs to be done? Time is a real issue here and I hope some of the very helpful folk on this site can provide some help/guidance.

Thanks

[VisasPlus]

It will depend on several things. What kind of visa will she be applying for ? A visit ( maximum 6 months ) or settlement ? If she want a settlement visa, then she will need to qualify, just as any other applicant would. If she qualifies ( or even if she doesn't ), she can request that the application be looked at quickly on urgent compassionate grounds. The reasons for the request will be looked at by an ECO or ECM, and they will decide whether the application can be given priority. If they do agree to treat it as a priority application that does not mean that a visa will be issued.

The question of support and accommodation will be a problem, and not easy to overcome by the sound of it. Don't forget that the wife will need to pass an A1 Level English test too.

If it is the wife's intention only to visit the UK, and then return to Thailand or Laos after 6 months, then she could apply for a visit visa. She will have to satisfy the ECO that will genuinely only stay the 6 months, and she will have to show reasons to return to Thailand or Laos. It won't be easy to convince an ECO that she will leave the UK after 6 months, especially if there is no improvement in her husband's condition. She will also have to think about what she intends to do if she does leave the UK after 6 months. If she wants to return to the UK either immediately or within a short space of time, it could be difficult. A recent appeal determination might allow her to overcome this difficulty, but there is no guarantee of that.

There is also the children to consider. What nationality are they ? If they hold British passports, then they don't need visa, of course. If they have Thai or Laos passports, then they will need to qualify for visas too.

[Thongkorn]

With respect does he still qualify for national health care.

[David48]

So many things to consider.

If I were an immigration officer, one thing I'd be asking for is proof of the condition.

A friend of mine has been diagnosed with throat cancer in Laos

So I would be getting the medical diagnosis translated into English, if it is not already.

Then I would I would be thinking a good reason why the mother and children have to accompany him to England. Yes, I understand the seriousness of the medical condition, but your friend has the medical condition, not his wife or the kids.

Then, as VisaPlus says above, the reason why, if it's a visitor Visa application, she and the kids would return to Laos/Thailand when the Visa expired.

Assuming that the wife and children don't are not financially independent, how he will be able to provide for them in the UK?

Plus as the Thongkorn above points out ... is he eligible for the NHC.

Not wanting to appear unsympathetic ... just the practicalities of the application.

[VisasPlus]

With respect does he still qualify for national health care.

It's a good question. I have heard answers before that say yes and no, and I really don't know. It seems to me that the rules say that if you are out of the UK for more than 6 months, then you cannot qualify for NHS treatment. But, I have also heard that if you are going back to the UK to live, then you do qualify. So, I'm sure somebody on here will know the answer.

[Eff1n2ret]

With respect does he still qualify for national health care.

It's a good question. I have heard answers before that say yes and no, and I really don't know. It seems to me that the rules say that if you are out of the UK for more than 6 months, then you cannot qualify for NHS treatment. But, I have also heard that if you are going back to the UK to live, then you do qualify. So, I'm sure somebody on here will know the answer.

You qualify if you can assure the relevant authorities that you are resuming permanent residence - see the first paragraph on this web-page:-

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074376

If you are on a state retirement pension and previously lived and worked in the UK for more than 10 years there are some circumstances where you can receive NHS treatment as a visitor - see the second para of this page:-

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_128863

[VisasPlus]

With respect does he still qualify for national health care.

It's a good question. I have heard answers before that say yes and no, and I really don't know. It seems to me that the rules say that if you are out of the UK for more than 6 months, then you cannot qualify for NHS treatment. But, I have also heard that if you are going back to the UK to live, then you do qualify. So, I'm sure somebody on here will know the answer.

You qualify if you can assure the relevant authorities that you are resuming permanent residence - see the first paragraph on this web-page:-

http://www.dh.gov.uk...sable/DH_074376

If you are on a state retirement pension and previously lived and worked in the UK for more than 10 years there are some circumstances where you can receive NHS treatment as a visitor - see the second para of this page:-

http://www.dh.gov.uk...sable/DH_128863

Excellent, John. It covers both the points I mentioned.

Edited March 25, 2012 by VisasPlus

[121Advice]

Very useful links to relevant HMRC guidelines. I thought it worth pointing out that regarding the second link (receiving free NHS treatment as a visitor) you will see that it specifically states that the diagnosis has to be "whilst in the UK" and excludes pre-existing medical conditions, prevalent prior to entering the country etc etc.. In the above example free NHS treatment would not apply under the visitor rules..

In April 2012 the government propose the introduction of an "expat test" which is mainly concerned with expats proving beyond any reasonable doubt that they are indeed expats and if so, can benefit from several well documented tax savings etc.. What will be interesting (and I certainly have no idea where this test will lead) but I suspect any such 'qualification test" that is successfully passed, could also be used at some future point to beat you with? i.e. Hey, you're an expat - pay for your treatment Mr! Just a thought - I guess time will tell....

[moobie]

May I just say that the OP's friend needs to enquire whether, or not, they are still registered with a GP.

Cancer treatment will begin at the the first instance through a GP's referral and not through a hospital A&E department. As the OP has seemingly nowhere to live and has no point of contact, such lack of details may/will cause problems. It may also cause some alarmbells to ring with regard to access to treatment questions. Do not expect any council to proffer accommodation help due the OP's friend's condition - or for that matter, on a wider scale, access to benefits.

Furthermore, the OP's friend may wish to look at the record of the (intended) local health authorities case record in relation to the drugs, etc, they are willing to prescribe - this is sometimes called the Postcode Lottery. There is a variation nationwide.

(This is on top of the "does he qualify for "free" NHS treatment" question).

It would be interesting to see how the OP's friend is treated in this instance as a future guide for others.

[VisasPlus]

I think the information given would make an excellent thread on its own. The OP, however, is asking if his wife can get a visa for the UK.

[Mobi]

The main point is, if the man is critically sick - in fact in danger of dying - he will be treated, regardless of his residence status or where the illness first manifested itself. The NHI may or may not seek to recover the cost, depending on his circumstances but he will NOT be refused treatment.

He should be fully assured on this.

The question of his family companying him is quite another, and I am not an expert but I frankly doubt if this will be possible in the initial stages. It is just so hard these days for anyone to get their family to the UK and it always takes forever.

My strongest possible recommendation is for the man to get himself on the next plane and to a UK hopsital without further delay and get his treatment started. He can then worry about his family. He will be no use to anyone if he dies.

[VisasPlus]

The main point is, if the man is critically sick - in fact in danger of dying - he will be treated, regardless of his residence status or where the illness first manifested itself. The NHI may or may not seek to recover the cost, depending on his circumstances but he will NOT be refused treatment.

He should be fully assured on this.

The question of his family companying him is quite another, and I am not an expert but I frankly doubt if this will be possible in the initial stages. It is just so hard these days for anyone to get their family to the UK and it always takes forever.

My strongest possible recommendation is for the man to get himself on the next plane and to a UK hopsital without further delay and get his treatment started. He can then worry about his family. He will be no use to anyone if he dies.

Good advice, Mobi.

If the OP wants to contact our office, either in person or by email, we would be happy to give a free consultation on his wife's options. I agree with you, though, his health is the first priority.

[moobie]

I agree with Thaivisa that this treatment angle would make an excellent thread in its own right.

However, may I reply to a previous Poster?

Mobi,

The NHS let people die every day who could be saved with the application of certain medicines, treatments or surgery. This includes those with cancer who can be treated in one Health authority but not in another - see the aforementioned "Postcode Lottery". The NHS is not the International Health Service as was recently stated by a politician. And the NHS can be deemed highly callous at times and they can and do apply the rules. Yet this is dependent on the Health authority or even down to hospital level.

It may be worthwhile keeping an eye on developments regarding healthcare and ex-pats because it is almost guaranteed that the situation will be further restricted regarding access.

[moobie]

Just a thought but could the OP's friend contact his "local" UK Citizens Advise Bureau to gain an understanding of his position on Healthcare?

[Mobi]

I agree with Thaivisa that this treatment angle would make an excellent thread in its own right.

However, may I reply to a previous Poster?

Mobi,

The NHS let people die every day who could be saved with the application of certain medicines, treatments or surgery. This includes those with cancer who can be treated in one Health authority but not in another - see the aforementioned "Postcode Lottery". The NHS is not the International Health Service as was recently stated by a politician. And the NHS can be deemed highly callous at times and they can and do apply the rules. Yet this is dependent on the Health authority or even down to hospital level.

It may be worthwhile keeping an eye on developments regarding healthcare and ex-pats because it is almost guaranteed that the situation will be further restricted regarding access.

yes we have been hearing about the post code lotteries for years. I actually think it is a bit better these days as I have heard of no complaints for a long time in this regard (and i listen to hours and hours of BBc radio every day, where this sort of thing is rarely from the public eye), and I do believe the powers that be have improved the situation.

But be this as it may, there are thousands of people in England who are successfully treated for all manner of cancers, including throat cancer PROVIDED IT IS FOUND EARLY ENOUGH, and the distant possibility that he may be denied some expensive, experimental drug, is frankly just scaremongering at this stage.

He has no money and by far and away his best bet is to throw himself at the mercy of the UK National health. HE WILL NOT BE REFUSED TREATMENT and he could do a lot worse than the national health service, despite its short-comings.

No UK national - or even a landed foreigner, will be refused life-saving treatment, regardless of his residence status.

[Mobi]

Just a thought but could the OP's friend contact his "local" UK Citizens Advise Bureau to gain an understanding of his position on Healthcare?

The internet links provided in this thread were issued by the CAB and to me, they are clear as they can be.

I cannot see how a local CAB office can provided any more information than can be obtained by reading their website advice - in fact they would probably refer him to it.

But of course it cannot do any harm.

the main thing is to get back home ASAP before the cancer spreads any further.

I know what Id' be doing in similar circumstances.

[wispyerk007]

If the gentlemans wife and children did manage to obtain 6 month visitors visas, could they apply to have there visas changed or extended so as to remain with him.

According to the Human Rights Act, which the U.K. signed up for, it is a basic human right for families to be together. Would his wife and children really have to return to Thailand?

I am not saying this is what they should do but merely asking if it is possible.

[moobie]

Mobi,

without turning this into a bun fight - do you have any experience of the Post code lottery beyond listening to the radio in Thailand?

I'm UK based and socialise with hospital admininstrators, a paramedic, various nurses and on occasion the wife if a colleague who is a doctor in the local A&E. One thing which seems to link them all is a direct, no nonsense approach to life and death. Sometimes startlingly so. As the drink flows so do the tales and the gripes - believe me there are many and have included the treatment of ex-pats returning to the UK and the expectations they have. Let me say that just because you carry a British passport it doesn't make you special - Residency is the main criteria.

Which brings us to the OP's friend and the question of treatment - or more precisely the level of treatment? This is the reason why I suggested that he enquire of the "local" CAB - things are not equal in the UK and various localities may have differences on treatment levels for different illnesses. (To be honest the level of care in hospitals within the same health authority can differ widely.) So it pays to speak to somebody in the locality where that person is aiming to be treated rather than refer to a national website.

I could go on further but he needs to find out the level of treatment he may receive and that it is beyond "stabilisation treatment" or worse. I could say more on this subject but anything else, as you say, would be scaremongering.

As a person who has witnessed an associate die of throat cancer recently and knows two others in the process of treatment I wish the OP's friend well - but I cannot emphasis enough that any expat wishing to use the NHS as a safety net needs to keep up to date with the rules applying to it.

[Mobi]

Mobi,

without turning this into a bun fight - do you have any experience of the Post code lottery beyond listening to the radio in Thailand?

I'm UK based and socialise with hospital admininstrators, a paramedic, various nurses and on occasion the wife if a colleague who is a doctor in the local A&E. One thing which seems to link them all is a direct, no nonsense approach to life and death. Sometimes startlingly so. As the drink flows so do the tales and the gripes - believe me there are many and have included the treatment of ex-pats returning to the UK and the expectations they have. Let me say that just because you carry a British passport it doesn't make you special - Residency is the main criteria.

Which brings us to the OP's friend and the question of treatment - or more precisely the level of treatment? This is the reason why I suggested that he enquire of the "local" CAB - things are not equal in the UK and various localities may have differences on treatment levels for different illnesses. (To be honest the level of care in hospitals within the same health authority can differ widely.) So it pays to speak to somebody in the locality where that person is aiming to be treated rather than refer to a national website.

I could go on further but he needs to find out the level of treatment he may receive and that it is beyond "stabilisation treatment" or worse. I could say more on this subject but anything else, as you say, would be scaremongering.

As a person who has witnessed an associate die of throat cancer recently and knows two others in the process of treatment I wish the OP's friend well - but I cannot emphasis enough that any expat wishing to use the NHS as a safety net needs to keep up to date with the rules applying to it.

Well my friend I certainly do think you are scaremongering and you are trying to hijack this thread to espouse your personal grievances, no doubt due to some unfortunate personal experiences.

Of course I do not base my views purely on what I hear on the radio - I was simply pointing out that although I live in Thailand I keep very much up to date on British issues such as the health service through UK BBC radio, TV even, and other media. I am not out of touch.

But more to the point, even if I concede that you may be right about the inadequacies of the health service - which by the way I don't - then what alternatives do you suggest for the gentleman who has no money?

The national health service is his ONLY choice, so for you to go on about its inadequacies is, IMHO irresponsible posting in this particular thread.. If you want to raise such concerns then do so elsewhere, but not here, as this gentleman has no alternatives, unless maybe you are prepared to bank roll him into private care.

Ever since the health service was created, and indeed ever since hospitals existed, there have been instances of bad treatment and people dying unnecessarily. It goes with the territory, but that doesn't mean that the service is bad. Healthcare is a lottery - whether you go to the National health service or the top cancer hospital in the world.

I reckon if i had a quid for every complaint I have heard about a health service or hospital somewhere in the world, I would be a very rich man today.

But in spite of all the apparently negative publicity, not long ago, a large public survey of the health service revealed that an amazingly large percentage of people were very satisfied.

Now, can we get back to the matter of advising this spoor man with his cancer problems, and leave your unjustified criticism of cancer treatment in the NHS to another thread, where you can relate all your juicy gossip and unsubstantiated allegations to your heart's content.

I repeat - for the umpteenth time - if the man goes back to the UK - he will be admitted form treatment. Read it - its all there. yet again your are scaremongering by suggesting anything to the contrary.

Thank you.

[moobie]

Mobi,

I've sent you a PM rather than allow my insensitivety to offend here.

Apologies to all if I have done so.

[Mobi]

The OP has not posted since he opened this thread.

Further advice is of little value until the OP answers some basic questions - such as do his children carry British passports, how long has his friend been out of the UK and even more importantly, is he in receipt of a UK state pension and has he previously resided in the UK for a minimum of 10 years?

Without this information, it is difficult to advise fully on his rights and entitlements.

[David48]

The OP has not posted since he opened this thread.

Further advice is of little value until the OP answers some basic questions - such as do his children carry British passports, how long has his friend been out of the UK and even more importantly, is he in receipt of a UK state pension and has he previously resided in the UK for a minimum of 10 years?

Without this information, it is difficult to advise fully on his rights and entitlements.

I agree with Mobi 100%

The OP who has made only 53 posts has appeared to start many posts but not return to comment.

Not making a statement, just an observation.

So maybe the best course of action from here is to wait for the OP to return to this thread with his updated information so that we can advise him further with his 'friends' problem.

What the topic has revealed is quite interesting and certainly food for thought for all of the posters who have lived a long time away from home and then later discover that they may need to return again when issues like this crop up.

[David48]

So wayner ... where are you now?

Maybe you would like to re-visit your thread that you started and update us with the events that have unfolded?

[Basil B]

Just to touch on this, do not know the circumstances of the guy to who the OP refers.

Bbut as someone who has paid taxes all my life and now self-employed and well aware of people who leave the UK to avoid paying taxes but soon come running back when the need medical care I for one would be happy for the UK government to introduce compulsory NIC class 2 (£2.65PW/£137.80PA) to all UK passport holders who pay no other form of NIC regardless where they are in the world and refuse to renew passports until holders are up to date with payments.

[7by7]

Valid point, Basil; but not really related to obtaining a UK visa in an emergency, or visas at all.

If you, or others, wish to discuss this point further, please start a topic in General.

Thanks.

[wayner]

My apologies for the delayed reply.

My friend had to take the quickest route possible due to his condition. His wife was granted a visitor visa quickly and is with him now in the UK.

Many thanks for all the feedback/info.

He has had no problems engaging with the NHS and is now undergoing tests in preparation for surgery.

Somewhere down the line his wife's visa status will need to be readdressed but for now they are together.

Many Thanks

Wayner

[Basil B]

Thanks for the update, as I said in my post I do not know your friend circumtances and as sugested by 7by7 I have posted my comments here> http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/547092-should-uk-expats-pay-nic-class-2-contributions/ so anybody want to reply to my comments please post there.

[Mobi]

That is wonderful news, and gratifying to know that my advice that he would not be refused treatment proved to be correct.

I am surprised, but also pleased to learn that his wife was able to accompany him - the best of all possible outcomes.

lets hope the operation is successful.