Demonstrating A Relationship

[VisasPlus]

I have just seen this on the UKBA Thailand website. I haven't noticed it before, so maybe it's a new addition. Maybe it's the result of recent correspondence between some Pattaya visa agencies, including ourselves, and the British Embassy. We have brought it to the attention of UKBA in Bangkok that many of their refusals are based on the fact that applicants have not proved a relationship with their sponsor. We have pointed out to them, on many occasions, that there is no requirement for an applicant to do so. You may have seen mention of this is many of my earlier posts. The "Related Document" on the UKBA website is entitled - Thailand Demonstrating a Relationship. If it only appears on the UKBA Thailand website, then it may well be as a result of our representations to the Embassy here. It says :

Travelling with or visiting British National Spouses and Partners.

When submitting a visitor visa application it is important for an Entry Clearance Officer to understand both your circumstances in Thailand and your intentions for visiting the UK. It is also advisable to provide evidence that supports any statements you have made in your visa application form.

If your reason for visiting the UK is to see your partner or visit your partner’s family, you may find it useful to consider providing some or all of the following documentation with your visa application. The Immigration Rules do not require you to demonstrate that you are in an established and genuine relationship if you are a visiting the UK, however, the Entry Clearance Officer might find this information useful when assessing your application. This will help to show your circumstances in Thailand and also might be useful in demonstrating your intentions whilst in the UK. Please note, however that even if you provide all of the documentation listed below, there is no guarantee that you will be issued with a visa.

 Evidence that you have met: for example, photographs of the two of you together, copy of your partner’s passport

 Evidence that you communicate on a regular basis: for example; email correspondence, Telephone records, Skype records,

 If you currently live together evidence to support this, for example: letters addressed to you both at the same address, evidence of having travelled together, property documents showing that you live together, Joint bank statements, copy of your partner’s passport

 If you are unemployed evidence of how you are financially supported

It is interesting to note that the Embassy, while trying to recover their position on this subject, have not explained how, or why, they refused so many applications on these grounds. Nor have they offered to revisit any of those refused applications ( even though they now agree that there is no requirement in the immigration rules to establish a relationship ).

That said, it is good to see that the Embassy are now looking more closely at their obligations under the immigration rules. Let's hope that future decisions will reflect the above guidance.

[David48]

Interesting point and I'm always keen to know more about the Visa application process so want to discuss your post. I don't disagree with you, just discussion.

Could it be that the reason that any Embassy is looking for evidence of a genuine relationship directly relate to the fact the Sponsor is providing the finances. Simple statement I know ... but it's the logical statement.

Naturally there is ...

no requirement in the immigration rules to establish a relationship

................................ nor can there be.

Laws are applied universally.

Not everyone who applies for a Visitor Visa is a 'sponsored' applicant, accordingly, it would impractical for the Law to written that you must have a relationship with someone in the UK before applying for a Visa.

If, however, the Law could rewritten to say something along the lines of ... 'if the applicant's reason is to visit family and friends and the applicant is not financially independent, then clear evidence must be provided of this relationship'

Remember, Laws are applied universally.

that many of their refusals are based on the fact that applicants have not proved a relationship with their sponsor. We have pointed out to them, on many occasions, that there is no requirement for an applicant to do so.

Logically, if there is no relationship, why would the person offer to sponsor?

In the past I have travelled extensively throughout Europe.

When I applied for my Visa for Ukraine, I had to have a 'letter of invitation' from a person in Ukraine to visit that country ... even though I didn't actually know anyone in that country. Without that letter, the Visa is declined.

That is the case a Law applied universally.

Edited March 24, 2012 by David48

[VisasPlus]

Interesting point and I'm always keen to know more about the Visa application process so want to discuss your post. I don't disagree with you, just discussion.

Could it be that the reason that any Embassy is looking for evidence of a genuine relationship directly relate to the fact the Sponsor is providing the finances. Simple statement I know ... but it's the logical statement.

Naturally there is ...

no requirement in the immigration rules to establish a relationship

................................ nor can there be.

Laws are applied universally.

Not everyone who applies for a Visitor Visa is a 'sponsored' applicant, accordingly, it would impractical for the Law to written that you must have a relationship with someone in the UK before applying for a Visa.

If, however, the Law could rewritten to say something along the lines of ... 'if the applicant's reason is to visit family and friends and the applicant is not financially independent, then clear evidence must be provided of this relationship'

Remember, Laws are applied universally.

that many of their refusals are based on the fact that applicants have not proved a relationship with their sponsor. We have pointed out to them, on many occasions, that there is no requirement for an applicant to do so.

Logically, if there is no relationship, why would the person offer to sponsor?

In the past I have travelled extensively throughout Europe.

When I applied for my Visa for Ukraine, I had to have a 'letter of invitation' from a person in Ukraine to visit that country ... even though I didn't actually know anyone in that country. Without that letter, the Visa is declined.

That is the case a Law applied universally.

With respect, a number of your assertions don't make sense. The main assertion, that "Laws are applied universally" seems totally wrong. Each country has its own immigration laws, so how can all laws apply universally ? You lost me right there.

Edited March 25, 2012 by VisasPlus

[David48]

Laws are applied universally.

Not everyone who applies for a Visitor Visa is a 'sponsored' applicant, accordingly, it would impractical for the Law to written that you must have a relationship with someone in the UK before applying for a Visa.

With respect, a number of your assertions don't make sense. The main assertion, that "Laws are applied universally" seems totally wrong. Each country has its own immigration laws, so how can all laws apply universally ? You lost me right there.

No problems ... the inference is that 'UK Laws are applied Universally to people applying to the UK for a Visitors Visa'.

But lets not worry further about this.

Edited March 25, 2012 by David48

[SantiSuk]

Britain cannot publish a law that implies they distrust relationships of Brits marrying poor girls in Thailand, Russia, Brazil etc (i.e. the usual suspect countries of brides for sale). Racial discrimination - all kinds of doplomatic opprobrium would descend on the Foreign Office.

It doesn't stop the distrust, so I'm not surprised they operate differential procedures - i.e. they do require evidence in reality for countries like Thailand, whatever the law says. "It might help the immigration officer" = classic civil servant-speak = don't bother coming if you can't provide the evidence.

As a Brit I'm happy with that, even though I married a poor Thai myself and even though the process they put me through is pretty balls-aching - 40 pages of bank statements to be downloaded and copied last time I applied!.

[VisasPlus]

Britain cannot publish a law that implies they distrust relationships of Brits marrying poor girls in Thailand, Russia, Brazil etc (i.e. the usual suspect countries of brides for sale). Racial discrimination - all kinds of doplomatic opprobrium would descend on the Foreign Office.

It doesn't stop the distrust, so I'm not surprised they operate differential procedures - i.e. they do require evidence in reality for countries like Thailand, whatever the law says. "It might help the immigration officer" = classic civil servant-speak = don't bother coming if you can't provide the evidence.

As a Brit I'm happy with that, even though I married a poor Thai myself and even though the process they put me through is pretty balls-aching - 40 pages of bank statements to be downloaded and copied last time I applied!.

This is not about Brits marrying anyone. This is newly published guidance for visitors to the UK. There is already legislation in place for Brits who wish to bring a spouse or partner to the UK for settlement, and that does require that the relationship is proven.

Why did you have to provide 40 pages of bank statements ? The guidance is to provide bank statements covering the last 6 months. Do you really have 40 pages of bank statements for the last 6 months ?

[CMTourist]

My ex took a bunch of pictures, including a plate from DreamWorld where they take a picture of you when you come in and then put it on a plate and sell the plate to you when you leave. The plate showed both of us walking together and it had a year baked in to the plate a few years before she applied.

She said they laughed at her when she showed it to them. But they didn't ask to see any more pictures!

So DreamWorld souvenir photo plates seem to be good evidence of a relationship!