Yingluck Gets By With A Little Help

[Buchholz]

I see good old Nick is in there batting away................in the normal role of unbiased journalist.

I actually used the term "language fascists" when i had a chat with Pravit over these ridiculous attacks regarding Yingluck's English.

I have also said, as others have pointed out here as well, that there are more than a few Prime Ministers, Ministers and Cancellors from all over the world, including from some of the richest countries, whose English is far worse than Yingluck's. I can't see what her English language abilities have to do with her capabilities as Prime Minister, and if you believe that stating this is "biased", than i just can't help you.

Personally i find attacks regarding her English language abilities extremely bad mannered.

The overwhelming opinion of most who attended the event was that Yingluck did quite well, deflected the critical questions well enough, and has disarmed many with her charm. Some questions, such as the one asked in a heavy Irish accent, were indeed quite difficult to understand, and others were so convoluted that i also wondered what the heck these people were asking, or if they just enjoyed hearing themselves speak.

Many were quite suprised that Yingluck pulled the event of that well. My view is that many people underestimate her. I have followed her quite closely during the election campaign (as i followed Abhisit), and thought her far more capable than public opinion, and didn't really expect any less of her. Yingluck is not a great public speaker (to which she quite freely admits to), but is very eloquent and knowledgable in a more private setting. Abhisit is a brilliant public speaker and it takes a lot of mental preparation to find a question that unsettles Abhisit. Abhisit though, when he was Prime Minister, was in a more private setting far more guarded and uptight (with occasional burst of Engish humor and sarcasm), while Yingluck is extremely charming, far more open, and quite self-depreciating.

On both sides of the political divide there are politicians that are likable, and politicians that are everything else than. On a personal level - both Yingluck and Abhisit belong to the former. The latter i will not name here.

I actually used the term "language fascists"

Typifies a generally shallow analysis.

He also completely misrepresents the situation by failing to grasp the rudimentary concept that someone with a Masters at an English language university might actually be expected to understand and use the language at a level higher than what she utilizes.

A similar sort of misrepresentation is seen in his other literary endeavors.

.

[Siam Simon]

I see good old Nick is in there batting away................in the normal role of unbiased journalist.

I actually used the term "language fascists" when i had a chat with Pravit over these ridiculous attacks regarding Yingluck's English.

I have also said, as others have pointed out here as well, that there are more than a few Prime Ministers, Ministers and Cancellors from all over the world, including from some of the richest countries, whose English is far worse than Yingluck's. I can't see what her English language abilities have to do with her capabilities as Prime Minister, and if you believe that stating this is "biased", than i just can't help you.

Personally i find attacks regarding her English language abilities extremely bad mannered.

The overwhelming opinion of most who attended the event was that Yingluck did quite well, deflected the critical questions well enough, and has disarmed many with her charm. Some questions, such as the one asked in a heavy Irish accent, were indeed quite difficult to understand, and others were so convoluted that i also wondered what the heck these people were asking, or if they just enjoyed hearing themselves speak.

Many were quite suprised that Yingluck pulled the event of that well. My view is that many people underestimate her. I have followed her quite closely during the election campaign (as i followed Abhisit), and thought her far more capable than public opinion, and didn't really expect any less of her. Yingluck is not a great public speaker (to which she quite freely admits to), but is very eloquent and knowledgable in a more private setting. Abhisit is a brilliant public speaker and it takes a lot of mental preparation to find a question that unsettles Abhisit. Abhisit though, when he was Prime Minister, was in a more private setting far more guarded and uptight (with occasional burst of Engish humor and sarcasm), while Yingluck is extremely charming, far more open, and quite self-depreciating.

On both sides of the political divide there are politicians that are likable, and politicians that are everything else than. On a personal level - both Yingluck and Abhisit belong to the former. The latter i will not name here.

I actually used the term "language fascists"

Typifies a generally shallow analysis.

He also completely misrepresents the situation by failing to grasp the rudimentary concept that someone with a Masters at an English language university might actually be expected to understand and use the language at a level higher than what she utilizes.

A similar sort of misrepresentation is seen in his other literary endeavors.

.

This misrepresentation of the level of language skills required by a foreign student at an overseas university studying a specialist subject has already been exposed. Repeating the misrepresentation doesn't gain it any credence.

[metisdead]

Off topic post removed.

[Buchholz]

I actually used the term "language fascists" when i had a chat with Pravit over these ridiculous attacks regarding Yingluck's English.

I have also said, as others have pointed out here as well, that there are more than a few Prime Ministers, Ministers and Cancellors from all over the world, including from some of the richest countries, whose English is far worse than Yingluck's. I can't see what her English language abilities have to do with her capabilities as Prime Minister, and if you believe that stating this is "biased", than i just can't help you.

Personally i find attacks regarding her English language abilities extremely bad mannered.

The overwhelming opinion of most who attended the event was that Yingluck did quite well, deflected the critical questions well enough, and has disarmed many with her charm. Some questions, such as the one asked in a heavy Irish accent, were indeed quite difficult to understand, and others were so convoluted that i also wondered what the heck these people were asking, or if they just enjoyed hearing themselves speak.

Many were quite suprised that Yingluck pulled the event of that well. My view is that many people underestimate her. I have followed her quite closely during the election campaign (as i followed Abhisit), and thought her far more capable than public opinion, and didn't really expect any less of her. Yingluck is not a great public speaker (to which she quite freely admits to), but is very eloquent and knowledgable in a more private setting. Abhisit is a brilliant public speaker and it takes a lot of mental preparation to find a question that unsettles Abhisit. Abhisit though, when he was Prime Minister, was in a more private setting far more guarded and uptight (with occasional burst of Engish humor and sarcasm), while Yingluck is extremely charming, far more open, and quite self-depreciating.

On both sides of the political divide there are politicians that are likable, and politicians that are everything else than. On a personal level - both Yingluck and Abhisit belong to the former. The latter i will not name here.

I actually used the term "language fascists"

Typifies a generally shallow analysis.

He also completely misrepresents the situation by failing to grasp the rudimentary concept that someone with a Masters at an English language university might actually be expected to understand and use the language at a level higher than what she utilizes.

A similar sort of misrepresentation is seen in his other literary endeavors.

.

This misrepresentation of the level of language skills required by a foreign student at an overseas university studying a specialist subject has already been exposed. Repeating the misrepresentation doesn't gain it any credence.

That's not the premise for nostitz's labeling of others as fascists.

It also attempts to diminish the achievements of thousands who have had even lower levels of foreign education, yet still manage to speak far better.

.

[nurofiend]

the bashing of yingluck about her skill of the english language is petty.. nothing more...

there's no point in trying to reason with anyone about it or look for any deep explanation, it's just pure, cheap, 'pot-shotting'.

as if anyone slating her about it actually cares that she can't speak good english.

[jayboy]

....might actually be expected to understand and use the language at a level higher than what she utilizes.

I am not particularly fastidious when it comes to spelling, grammar and syntax particularly on a forum where many have a mother tongue that isn't English.However when an English native speaker, not once but again and again, harps on pointlessly and obsessively about the PM's alleged English language shortcomings, it seems to me perfectly appropriate to highight his own clumsy and inaccurate use of the English language.

Edited April 2, 2012 by jayboy

[Buchholz]

The obsessive defense of Yingluck's abilities with misrepresentations of the points raised by others is noteworthy.

At the end of the day, her abilities are what they are, and the only reason the discussion gets drawn out to is simply because her defenders refuse to face that simple truth.

We could all move on to her more substantial shortcomings if they did.

.

[waza]

the bashing of yingluck about her skill of the english language is petty.. nothing more...

there's no point in trying to reason with anyone about it or look for any deep explanation, it's just pure, cheap, 'pot-shotting'.

as if anyone slating her about it actually cares that she can't speak good english.

good english? Yingluck doesnt speak english well, but that pales into insignificance compared to her complete lack of leadership skills, but luckily she doesnt need them as she doesnt lead the country, her convicted crimminal brother does.

[jayboy]

The obsessive defense of Yingluck's abilities with misrepresentations of the points raised by others is noteworthy.

At the end of the day, her abilities are what they are, and the only reason the discussion gets drawn out to is simply because her defenders refuse to face that simple truth.

We could all move on to her more substantial shortcomings if they did.

I simply pointed out you are not in a position to criticise Yingluck's English given your own poor grasp of it.It is you that repeatedly returns to the subject.

If you wanted to have a sensible discussion of the government's policy shortcomings that is a different matter altogether

[Buchholz]

The obsessive defense of Yingluck's abilities with misrepresentations of the points raised by others is noteworthy.

At the end of the day, her abilities are what they are, and the only reason the discussion gets drawn out to is simply because her defenders refuse to face that simple truth.

We could all move on to her more substantial shortcomings if they did.

It is you that repeatedly returns to the subject.

There's no shortage of posters on the topic.

My contributions have focused mainly on correcting the misrepresentations by others when they use such hyperbole as "fascist."

I don't negatively discuss her English abilities except in the context of her obtaining a Masters degree utilizing the English language.

[waza]

The obsessive defense of Yingluck's abilities with misrepresentations of the points raised by others is noteworthy.

At the end of the day, her abilities are what they are, and the only reason the discussion gets drawn out to is simply because her defenders refuse to face that simple truth.

We could all move on to her more substantial shortcomings if they did.

It is you that repeatedly returns to the subject.

There's no shortage of posters on the topic.

My contributions have focused mainly on correcting the misrepresentations by others when they use such hyperbole as "fascist."

I don't negatively discuss her English abilities except in the context of her obtaining a Masters degree utilizing the English language.

I think it was more a case of purchasing a Masters degree utilizing the US dollar, but thats just my thoughts.

[rubl]

It's unfair, it's bloody unfair that's what it is

"Why are fantasy world accents British?

...

A British accent is sufficiently exotic to transport the viewer to a different reality, argues Seitz, while still being comprehensible to a global audience."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17554816

From your local Dutch uncle

[gand]

I see good old Nick is in there batting away................in the normal role of unbiased journalist.

I actually used the term "language fascists" when i had a chat with Pravit over these ridiculous attacks regarding Yingluck's English.

I have also said, as others have pointed out here as well, that there are more than a few Prime Ministers, Ministers and Cancellors from all over the world, including from some of the richest countries, whose English is far worse than Yingluck's. I can't see what her English language abilities have to do with her capabilities as Prime Minister, and if you believe that stating this is "biased", than i just can't help you.

Personally i find attacks regarding her English language abilities extremely bad mannered.

The overwhelming opinion of most who attended the event was that Yingluck did quite well, deflected the critical questions well enough, and has disarmed many with her charm. Some questions, such as the one asked in a heavy Irish accent, were indeed quite difficult to understand, and others were so convoluted that i also wondered what the heck these people were asking, or if they just enjoyed hearing themselves speak.

Many were quite suprised that Yingluck pulled the event of that well. My view is that many people underestimate her. I have followed her quite closely during the election campaign (as i followed Abhisit), and thought her far more capable than public opinion, and didn't really expect any less of her. Yingluck is not a great public speaker (to which she quite freely admits to), but is very eloquent and knowledgable in a more private setting. Abhisit is a brilliant public speaker and it takes a lot of mental preparation to find a question that unsettles Abhisit. Abhisit though, when he was Prime Minister, was in a more private setting far more guarded and uptight (with occasional burst of Engish humor and sarcasm), while Yingluck is extremely charming, far more open, and quite self-depreciating.

On both sides of the political divide there are politicians that are likable, and politicians that are everything else than. On a personal level - both Yingluck and Abhisit belong to the former. The latter i will not name here.

Interesting choice fascist instead of nazi.

[waza]

30 years ago I was fluent in French, I don't think I can claim that now.

Did you obtain a French language-based Masters degree at a university in France?

BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa or Mandarin?

Considering the fact that those are the two most important languages in the region, one would think they would be able to speak the language.

How many Aussie or Kiwi PM's lay claim to obtaining a Bhasa [actually, its Bahasa] or Mandarin language-based Masters degree program?

Thanks for the analogies, guys. It would help... if they applied to the situation.

.

Rudd is fluent in Mandarin amd Gillard has a degree in bullshit.

Edited May 15, 2012 by waza

[Buchholz]

30 years ago I was fluent in French, I don't think I can claim that now.

Did you obtain a French language-based Masters degree at a university in France?

BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa or Mandarin?

Considering the fact that those are the two most important languages in the region, one would think they would be able to speak the language.

How many Aussie or Kiwi PM's lay claim to obtaining a Bhasa [actually, its Bahasa] or Mandarin language-based Masters degree program?

Thanks for the analogies, guys. It would help... if they applied to the situation.

Rudd is fluent in Mandarin amd Gillard has a degree in bullshit.

Does Rudd lay claim to having obtained a Masters degree utilizing the Mandarin language at a Chinese-speaking foreign country's university?

.

.

[whybother]

Does Rudd lay claim to having obtained a Masters degree utilizing the Mandarin language at a Chinese-speaking foreign country's university?

No, but Rudd is fluent in Mandarin. As opposed to a certain PM barely scraping by in English.

[Buchholz]

Does Rudd lay claim to having obtained a Masters degree utilizing the Mandarin language at a Chinese-speaking foreign country's university?

No, but Rudd is fluent in Mandarin. As opposed to a certain PM barely scraping by in English.

His sister also wasn't PM before him.

.

[tlansford]

saw the PM visiting a market last night on TV

She really needed perfect English ... not.

Get over it guys. Her English is perfectly comprehensible for any English speaker who *tries* to understand. And beyond that it is a non-issue for being PM of *Thailand*

[Reasonableman]

saw the PM visiting a market last night on TV

She really needed perfect English ... not.

Get over it guys. Her English is perfectly comprehensible for any English speaker who *tries* to understand. And beyond that it is a non-issue for being PM of *Thailand*

Agreed. The focus might preferably be on content, not fluency, whatever the language in use.

[waza]

saw the PM visiting a market last night on TV

She really needed perfect English ... not.

Get over it guys. Her English is perfectly comprehensible for any English speaker who *tries* to understand. And beyond that it is a non-issue for being PM of *Thailand*

Agreed. The focus might preferably be on content, not fluency, whatever the language in use.

I agree Yinglucks skill in english is on par with her skills in business, poliitics and leadership, all are sadly lacking. However she does make an excellent hand puppet for a convicted criminal.

[hyperdimension]

saw the PM visiting a market last night on TV

She really needed perfect English ... not.

Get over it guys. Her English is perfectly comprehensible for any English speaker who *tries* to understand. And beyond that it is a non-issue for being PM of *Thailand*

Agreed. The focus might preferably be on content

... of which there is almost none when she speaks candidly instead of (attempting to) read from a script that was written by someone else. The issue is in both the delivery (severely garbled), and the content (very lacking).

It's one thing to be a great thinker but have problems expressing your thoughts and ideas (but even Stephen Hawking managed), it's yet another to not be much of a thinker and have a problem expressing what little you do think.

Edited May 15, 2012 by hyperdimension

[gemini81]

Ok, she's an attractive woman and speaks ok English. That's the dessert, where's the main course?

That she inherited a country in the midst of a world economic crisis, on the verge of war with Cambodia and at the time of the worst flooding experienced in Thailand in more than a century. Seems that she has held up rather well as the war was prevented, the nation cared for during the floods, and she has managed to deliver benefits to the poor in a world where other countries are reducing benefits.

Easier to deal with than the money hungry thugs burning down the capital city, which Abhisit was faced with. That's much more difficult as it was more sensative and more of a crisis.

She's so unfit and unqualified for the job its absolutely mind boggling. She was a nominee to keep the money from graft in the family, and bring the tyrant back. To those who like surface and no substance, she served as a face on a poster (if you like flat faces and botox injections). This is like Paris Hilton or Britney Spears "running" the country.

Edited May 15, 2012 by gemini81

[gemini81]

I have also said, as others have pointed out here as well, that there are more than a few Prime Ministers, Ministers and Cancellors from all over the world, including from some of the richest countries, whose English is far worse than Yingluck's.

That's true. I don't know how many of them received master's degrees in the United States though

Writing and speaking a language is not the same. Another matter is that public speaking is quite different from having a conversation. In a more private setting Yingluck's English is far better than on the stage.

Thats what we've heard, like her and the whole ordeal at that hotel. What does she moan in English?

[gemini81]

"Thank you for help me to translate."

Kentucky State University ( Masters )

And your masters is from?

And your fluency in Thai is?

The PM's command of the English language is still better than other important foreign leaders such as Putin of Russia, and Merkel of Germany. And the President of the USA speaks how many foreign languages?

BTW, how many expat managing directors ent over to manage the local company units actually speak Thai? One would think that such people living and working in Thailand would be fluent.

Criticism of the PM's English language skills is petty and usually made by insecure people.

And why would anybody want to speak Thai.. English is the language of the financial world, the language of international business, and also the main on-line language, go across the border to poor repressed Burma, and anyone with even a formal education speaks pretty damned good English.. go curl up with your red shirt wife and dog and give us all a break... Speak Thai ...haha... might as well speak Martian... khrup..

I wonder how many languages/dialects do you know? You are in a country whose native language is not English and you expect them to speak as if they had been raised with this language? English may be my 1st language but I want to be part of the community I now live in and therefore I am learning to speak/read/write in Thai, over and above my English, like I had done with Tagalog when I lived in the Phiippines. At home I speak a mixture of English, Tagalog and even a few words of Thai to teach my kids who just arrived. I WANT them to learn Thai and be able to read and write too, so that they too can be part of the commnity.

If you want to live here and expect the Thais to speak yr lanaguage as well as you do, sorry you will be disappointed. How many countries in Europe have you been to? Not all of them speak good English, despite being exposed since they were born.

Question is rather than just complaining and throwing brickbats, what can you do to help their learning process? You too have a responsibilty to the comunity in which you live, or you think u are a class above them?

For me, I make the effort to encourage Thais to speak English, but without putting them down or making them feel shy their spoken English is bad. I try to get them to realize is the ability to communicate that matters, not being able to speak perfectly. And I've done that with the counterfirls at the Supermarket, the lady who owns the palor my wife visits, the taxi-drivers I met, and many I met on the streets. It has been a rewarding experience to see some letting go of their shyness and try.

Yes, we can all do our part to contribute, not just sit back and bitch about nhy things are not the way we expect them to be. Doing so (the bitching part) makes you part of the problem. Would you rather not be part of the solution?

BTW, I speak English (my 1st language - and No, I am not a Caucasian), Mandarin/ Chinese (my 2nd language), Tagalog/Filipino, Thai, Malay/Indonesian, and the Chinese dialects - Fujian.Hokkien, Cantonese/HongKong, Teochew, some Hainanese. But forgotten all my Japanese. Still learning because being able to converse with locals where I go, in their language/dialect is a joy.

Hopefully you're as good in those languages as you are at honking your own horn.

Edited May 15, 2012 by gemini81

[OzMick]

saw the PM visiting a market last night on TV

She really needed perfect English ... not.

Get over it guys. Her English is perfectly comprehensible for any English speaker who *tries* to understand. And beyond that it is a non-issue for being PM of *Thailand*

Visiting a market, I bet she does that regularly, like every time a photo op is required to distract from another idiotic statement about food prices.

It might even make TV when she decides to visit parliament. Should that be IF?

[OzMick]

BTW, how many PMs of Australia or New Zealand have been fluent in Bhasa or Mandarin?

Considering the fact that those are the two most important languages in the region, one would think they would be able to speak the language.

Bahasa and mandarin might be the most widely spoken languages in the region, the most important is English. It is the language of global communication.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. The topic is about Yingluk, not about other posters. It's also not about US Presidents.

[Siripon]

There's a story circulating that Kittirat was talking to Yingluk about the rising prices and supply and demand. In Thai demand is oobasong (อุปลงค์) whilst supply is oobatan (อุปทาน), but oobatan has 2 meanings, the second meaning is imagination, think something yourself.

So some people are wondering if Yingluk confused the meanings of supply -oobatan when she told the reporters that people were imagining the high prices.

[Buchholz]

There's a story circulating that Kittirat was talking to Yingluk about the rising prices and supply and demand. In Thai demand is oobasong (อุปลงค์) whilst supply is oobatan (อุปทาน), but oobatan has 2 meanings, the second meaning is imagination, think something yourself.

So some people are wondering if Yingluk confused the meanings of supply -oobatan when she told the reporters that people were imagining the high prices.

A misconception by the people based on a misperception by the PM.

.

[waza]

There's a story circulating that Kittirat was talking to Yingluk about the rising prices and supply and demand. In Thai demand is oobasong (อุปลงค์) whilst supply is oobatan (อุปทาน), but oobatan has 2 meanings, the second meaning is imagination, think something yourself.

So some people are wondering if Yingluk confused the meanings of supply -oobatan when she told the reporters that people were imagining the high prices.

So Yingluck really said "People were supplying the high prices" ? That makes much more sense.

Edited May 16, 2012 by waza