Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[Jaivin2011]

There has been many postings here talking about Thai people etc......Just take a look at how thai people from all strata of society treat Burmese, Cambodians and laotians here ! I hoep that thais are treated the same way when they are overseas!

[boggle]

Not only in Bangkok :

http://news.yahoo.co...r-28722274.html

This guys are "police"

[swillowbee]

I find it very strange that the witnesses right after the incident went running to Andrew Drummond.

How could they know about him?

... "very strange", balo? ... as in "ah, it must be a conspiracy strange"?

... perhaps she felt that what she witnessed would have a snowball's chance in hell of being fairly reported by the Thai media, or seeing the light of day at all ... international professional journalists rate Thailand as having only a "partially free press" ... understanding how the Thai broadcast media have covered it so far, seems a reasonable judgement ... I'd say she's a pretty smart Thai cookie, that one.

... while Andrew Drummond is not the Washington Post, he appears to have a track history of putting it all out there, and letting the chips fall as they may.

[flyingsporran]

I find it very strange that the witnesses right after the incident went running to Andrew Drummond.

How could they know about him?

... "very strange", balo? ... as in "ah, it must be a conspiracy strange"?

... perhaps she felt that what she witnessed would have a snowball's chance in hell of being fairly reported by the Thai media, or seeing the light of day at all ... international professional journalists rate Thailand as having only a "partially free press" ... understanding how the Thai broadcast media have covered it so far, seems a reasonable judgement ... I'd say she's a pretty smart Thai cookie, that one.

... while Andrew Drummond is not the Washington Post, he appears to have a track history of putting it all out there, and letting the chips fall as they may.

I think he is going to take that as a compliment Swillowbee as if he does not see the WP as any sort of pinnacle or journalistic benchmark

[nocturn]

I don't normally reply to these topics but this one takes the cake!

The guy represents the kind of foreigners who should definitely not be in the kingdom. Despite having worked and married locally he seems to have absolutely no idea how to behave. People like security guards have jobs to do and rules to enforce. If the guard had not stopped him he would have left himself open to being disciplined.

This kind of flouting convention and socially accepted behavior is all too common in Thailand where it it easy for foreigners to act in a high handed manner in situations where they would not in their home countries. For example, I can't imagine this guy having what it takes to act in the same way on the London underground where customer service and security staff are physically considerably larger and much more assertive than their polite Thai counterparts.

Furthermore, a good way to judge a person' character is to observe how he or she treat those in less socially advantaged positions and this foreigner's public display of childish temper over a trivial mater shows him for what he is. Not to mention the matter of social learning, where his young daughter was exposed to her father having a tantrum because he could not get his own way. It's certainly one of the most ignorant displays I've seen and I am only happy that I was not physically present at the time.

I personally hope he suffers the maximum embarrassment and penalty as a result because Thais deserve so much better from the expats who choose to make their home there.

and you represent the army of keyboard warriors out there in interwebworld who mindlessly blat speculation and uninformed venom .

I have seen the brief clip out there as well as the Thai news and interview and I personally still have no idea what happened.

I certainly pity the little girl for having to witness what she did, but reserve judgement an the rest.

I can recall MANY times I have traveled to and from the Emporium, Paragon and Siam with my daughter and balloons in tow, and may well myself have objected had someone suddenly called me on it after such a regular precedent had been set.

I might well also transform into a raging maniac had i been battered about the head and body, but the truth is i just don't know how i would react in this situation, especially given i haven't the foggiest idea what the situation really was.

And neither do you.

[swillowbee]

I don't normally reply to these topics but this one takes the cake!

The guy represents the kind of foreigners who should definitely not be in the kingdom. Despite having worked and married locally he seems to have absolutely no idea how to behave. People like security guards have jobs to do and rules to enforce. If the guard had not stopped him he would have left himself open to being disciplined.

This kind of flouting convention and socially accepted behavior is all too common in Thailand where it it easy for foreigners to act in a high handed manner in situations where they would not in their home countries. For example, I can't imagine this guy having what it takes to act in the same way on the London underground where customer service and security staff are physically considerably larger and much more assertive than their polite Thai counterparts.

Furthermore, a good way to judge a person' character is to observe how he or she treat those in less socially advantaged positions and this foreigner's public display of childish temper over a trivial mater shows him for what he is. Not to mention the matter of social learning, where his young daughter was exposed to her father having a tantrum because he could not get his own way. It's certainly one of the most ignorant displays I've seen and I am only happy that I was not physically present at the time.

I personally hope he suffers the maximum embarrassment and penalty as a result because Thais deserve so much better from the expats who choose to make their home there.

and you represent the army of keyboard warriors out there in interwebworld who mindlessly blat speculation and uninformed venom .

I have seen the brief clip out there as well as the Thai news and interview and I personally still have no idea what happened.

I certainly pity the little girl for having to witness what she did, but reserve judgement an the rest.

I can recall MANY times I have traveled to and from the Emporium, Paragon and Siam with my daughter and balloons in tow, and may well myself have objected had someone suddenly called me on it after such a regular precedent had been set.

I might well also transform into a raging maniac had i been battered about the head and body, but the truth is i just don't know how i would react in this situation, especially given i haven't the foggiest idea what the situation really was.

And neither do you.

.

... quite so, nocturn ... you do not know what really happened ... nor does NickMoreley, nor any of us who were not eyewitnesses to it.

...but ... the BTS does know what happened ... the attack was all recorded on their CCTV security cameras ... which they refuse to release ... but, concealing the truth is not news in Thailand ... even by ostensibly respected ('respected' by exceedingly low Thai standards) publicly-listed companies, like the BTS.

... were the farang clearly in the wrong, even slightly in the wrong, his farang face would be the most well-recognized one in all of the Kingdom ... but ... it is not.

... huh ... well … go figure.

[Curt1591]

Yes, the BTS could clear this all up, in no time. But, they seem reluctant...

[luckyluke]

Mr. Behan thought good to ignore the order a man in uniform gave to him, apparently the colour of the uniform was not adequate, if the colour had been brown certainly Mr. Behan had listened to the order.

[swillowbee]

Yes, the BTS could clear this all up, in no time. But, they seem reluctant...

.

... yes, reluctant ... truth frightens the hell out of many Thais, whose neurotic existence is a pathological world of wide-eyed denial and child-like self-deception.

... what is so remarkable to me is that I understand the Buddha teaches people to recognize, accept and live in reality.

... maybe a knowledgeable student of Buddhism can tell if I understand this correctly? ... maybe opine how a Buddhist nation practices cultural values so distant from this very smart concept.

[wintermute]

I don't normally reply to these topics but this one takes the cake!

The guy represents the kind of foreigners who should definitely not be in the kingdom. Despite having worked and married locally he seems to have absolutely no idea how to behave. People like security guards have jobs to do and rules to enforce. If the guard had not stopped him he would have left himself open to being disciplined.

This kind of flouting convention and socially accepted behavior is all too common in Thailand where it it easy for foreigners to act in a high handed manner in situations where they would not in their home countries. For example, I can't imagine this guy having what it takes to act in the same way on the London underground where customer service and security staff are physically considerably larger and much more assertive than their polite Thai counterparts.

Furthermore, a good way to judge a person' character is to observe how he or she treat those in less socially advantaged positions and this foreigner's public display of childish temper over a trivial mater shows him for what he is. Not to mention the matter of social learning, where his young daughter was exposed to her father having a tantrum because he could not get his own way. It's certainly one of the most ignorant displays I've seen and I am only happy that I was not physically present at the time.

I personally hope he suffers the maximum embarrassment and penalty as a result because Thais deserve so much better from the expats who choose to make their home there.

and you represent the army of keyboard warriors out there in interwebworld who mindlessly blat speculation and uninformed venom .

I have seen the brief clip out there as well as the Thai news and interview and I personally still have no idea what happened.

I certainly pity the little girl for having to witness what she did, but reserve judgement an the rest.

I can recall MANY times I have traveled to and from the Emporium, Paragon and Siam with my daughter and balloons in tow, and may well myself have objected had someone suddenly called me on it after such a regular precedent had been set.

I might well also transform into a raging maniac had i been battered about the head and body, but the truth is i just don't know how i would react in this situation, especially given i haven't the foggiest idea what the situation really was.

And neither do you.

If you admit having a propensity to commit violence over balloons and not following public transportation safety rules perhaps your name should be jotted down somewhere so you can be deported post haste.

[MrJohnson]

Yes, the BTS could clear this all up, in no time. But, they seem reluctant...

.

... yes, reluctant ... truth frightens the hell out of many Thais, whose neurotic existence is a pathological world of wide-eyed denial and child-like self-deception.

... what is so remarkable to me is that I understand the Buddha teaches people to recognize, accept and live in reality.

... maybe a knowledgeable student of Buddhism can tell if I understand this correctly? ... maybe opine how a Buddhist nation practices cultural values so distant from this very smart concept.

Yes, the BTS could clear this all up, in no time. But, they seem reluctant...

.

... yes, reluctant ... truth frightens the hell out of many Thais, whose neurotic existence is a pathological world of wide-eyed denial and child-like self-deception.

... what is so remarkable to me is that I understand the Buddha teaches people to recognize, accept and live in reality.

... maybe a knowledgeable student of Buddhism can tell if I understand this correctly? ... maybe opine how a Buddhist nation practices cultural values so distant from this very smart concept.

Well I think the truth scares the hell out of many of us. 'you want the truth? You can't handle the truth' I am not an expert on Buddhism but let's not start blaming the BTS on the teachings of the Buddha. Buddhism in Thailand is what the Thais made it to be. Much like the different ways that say the Irish remade Catholicism and likewise the Indonesians Islam. I don't think we should be looking for answers in those places. Maybe we will never know the full truth of what happened that day. And does it really matter to any of us except the people it really affected unless we are simply interested in using this saga for our own petty purposes. If so, then God help us that our lives are small. The pity of this whole sorry saga is that the person most affected, that poor little girl, will probably be traumatized by this for some considerable time to come especially if she has to hear about it on a daily basis through her parents and family. A great shame indeed.

[chrisinth]

I don't normally reply to these topics but this one takes the cake!

The guy represents the kind of foreigners who should definitely not be in the kingdom. Despite having worked and married locally he seems to have absolutely no idea how to behave. People like security guards have jobs to do and rules to enforce. If the guard had not stopped him he would have left himself open to being disciplined.

This kind of flouting convention and socially accepted behavior is all too common in Thailand where it it easy for foreigners to act in a high handed manner in situations where they would not in their home countries. For example, I can't imagine this guy having what it takes to act in the same way on the London underground where customer service and security staff are physically considerably larger and much more assertive than their polite Thai counterparts.

Furthermore, a good way to judge a person' character is to observe how he or she treat those in less socially advantaged positions and this foreigner's public display of childish temper over a trivial mater shows him for what he is. Not to mention the matter of social learning, where his young daughter was exposed to her father having a tantrum because he could not get his own way. It's certainly one of the most ignorant displays I've seen and I am only happy that I was not physically present at the time.

I personally hope he suffers the maximum embarrassment and penalty as a result because Thais deserve so much better from the expats who choose to make their home there.

and you represent the army of keyboard warriors out there in interwebworld who mindlessly blat speculation and uninformed venom .

I have seen the brief clip out there as well as the Thai news and interview and I personally still have no idea what happened.

I certainly pity the little girl for having to witness what she did, but reserve judgement an the rest.

I can recall MANY times I have traveled to and from the Emporium, Paragon and Siam with my daughter and balloons in tow, and may well myself have objected had someone suddenly called me on it after such a regular precedent had been set.

I might well also transform into a raging maniac had i been battered about the head and body, but the truth is i just don't know how i would react in this situation, especially given i haven't the foggiest idea what the situation really was.

And neither do you.

.

... quite so, nocturn ... you do not know what really happened ... nor does NickMoreley, nor any of us who were not eyewitnesses to it.

...but ... the BTS does know what happened ... the attack was all recorded on their CCTV security cameras ... which they refuse to release ... but, concealing the truth is not news in Thailand ... even by ostensibly respected ('respected' by exceedingly low Thai standards) publicly-listed companies, like the BTS.

... were the farang clearly in the wrong, even slightly in the wrong, his farang face would be the most well-recognized one in all of the Kingdom ... but ... it is not.

... huh ... well … go figure.

Here we go again!

Why do you think BTS are obliged to divulge what is on their tapes? It may really hurt your ego's to hear this, but it has absolutely nothing to do with you. Absolutely nothing to do with any of us.

The only reason this minor, insignificant incident came to light was because it was published to cause exactly this sort of response. It has nothing to do with us! Let it lie. I think we all know by now it is a bad idea to take balloons on the sky train, lesson learnt.

Let the BTS and the Irish bloke sort it out; they are the ones that count.

[Thaddeus]

Let the BTS and the Irish bloke sort it out; they are the ones that count.

So the alleged death threats don't matter then?

[chrisinth]

Let the BTS and the Irish bloke sort it out; they are the ones that count.

So the alleged death threats don't matter then?

The alleged death threat came from the fact that people used the incident for their own gain by posting on u-tube and making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill. If it was allowed to run as only the minor incident it was, then this wouldn't have happened, IMHO.

My last post was just saying that I don't think there is anymore new input into the subject; it has been discussed to the point of it being repetitive now. Sensationalism over stories like this?

There are many more stories out there at the minute like the recent bombings down south, let this one rest.

Purely personal view, but I am sure many others would agree

[swillowbee]

Let the BTS and the Irish bloke sort it out; they are the ones that count.

So the alleged death threats don't matter then?

The alleged death threat came from the fact that people used the incident for their own gain by posting on u-tube and making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill. If it was allowed to run as only the minor incident it was, then this wouldn't have happened, IMHO.

My last post was just saying that I don't think there is anymore new input into the subject; it has been discussed to the point of it being repetitive now. Sensationalism over stories like this?

There are many more stories out there at the minute like the recent bombings down south, let this one rest.

Purely personal view, but I am sure many others would agree

... chrisinth ... I am certainly not one of who agrees with you ... if a brutal assault has been purpetrated, then it needs to be exposed ... Thailand is not yet society or nation in which its institutions may be trusted to protect the innocent, weak, aged, poor, young ... you know that.

...if an attacker (whether the farang, or the guard) is not held accountable, no consequences are suffered by the attacker... if no consequences are suffered by the attacker, no change in behavior will happen ... if no change in behavior happens, a brutal assault will occur again ... and guess what? ... tens of thousands of potential future victims ride the BTS every single day ... Thais and farang.

... if the BTS' security tapes show that the guard was wrongly fired, you may expect a similar outrage in his defense, from the very same people on this forum who are incensed by the BTS's irresponsible behavior.

... you want to close your eyes and buy into the whole Thai culture of passivity, blind obedience, kreng jai, mai pen rai and fatalism, that is your privilege ... still, you can count on others to stand for you if you are one day horribly wronged here, and find yourself alone against an interminably corrupt system ... this is what civilized people do ... they stand-up against wrong, no matter its nationality, language, or culture.

... if you are wronged here, you can count on us to stand for you, chrisinth. ... you might find you have no one else to whom to turn.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--

because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--

because I was not a socialist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--

because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--

because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me--

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

-- Martin Niemoeller

[PaulBax]

There is one issue here and one issue only: was Behan assaulted unjustifiably or not?

Not being polite enough or acting not to someones liking is not justification to be attacked with or without a weapon .

Being in extreme physical danger is reason for someone to defend themselves with a weapon.

Without the full CCTV everything else is pure speculation and or unwarranted character assassination!

Many of you should be made aware that libel is a criminal offence in Thailand and yet you have been allowed to get away with it by the Admin!

I dare any of you to suggest that you would act rationally if you had just been whacked on the head hard enough to give you stitches!

You just do not go out planning to get whacked on the head and further planning how you would act if it happened. We like to think we would act sensibly but we just do not know!

Leave the man alone until the full facts are known. calling Behan's character into question without justification is leaving yourselves or this board open to criminal prosecution.

[luckyluke]

I dare any of you to suggest that you would act rationally if you had just been whacked on the head hard enough to give you stitches!

Acting rationaly whould have been to listen to the man in uniform. I repeat myself once again, if the man in uniform had been a policeman, I am practicably sure Mr. Behan had listened.

[PaulBax]

listen to a thai man in a uniform? so you are saying that you do what every person tells you because generally they all have uniforms!

There are police who have the right to tell you what to do on occasion, soldiers in a state of emergency and judges but nobody else! except the wife of course.

seems to me that most have been totally brainwashed into being sheep regardless of right after all that is the Thai way!

I dare any of you to suggest that you would act rationally if you had just been whacked on the head hard enough to give you stitches!

Acting rationaly whould have been to listen to the man in uniform. I repeat myself once again, if the man in uniform had been a policeman, I am practicably sure Mr. Behan had listened.

But he was not a policeman! Everyone and their dog wears a uniform in Thailand! you think you should obey them all?

[Ulysses G.]

If the Irish fellow had followed the BTS rules, there would be nothing else to talk about.

[animatic]

Let the BTS and the Irish bloke sort it out; they are the ones that count.

So the alleged death threats don't matter then?

The alleged death threat came from the fact that people used the incident for their own gain by posting on u-tube and making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill. If it was allowed to run as only the minor incident it was, then this wouldn't have happened, IMHO.

My last post was just saying that I don't think there is anymore new input into the subject; it has been discussed to the point of it being repetitive now. Sensationalism over stories like this?

There are many more stories out there at the minute like the recent bombings down south, let this one rest.

Purely personal view, but I am sure many others would agree

No the death threats came because the poor guy spoke out publicly

and made the security company lose face. No other reasons is there than that,

they are the only party that benefits by shutting him up.

[animatic]

If the Irish fellow had followed the BTS rules, there would be nothing else to talk about.

But 'they change the rules and enforcement from station to station',

that is the real crux of the issue.

Several places no enforcement leading to a reasonable belief that it is permitted,

then suddenly a barely coherent guard is pressing in your face, and making little sense,

and not giving any coherent explanation, and then getting violent when you express dismay,

at being mistreated as you see it relating to past precedent in the same company.

Ultimately it is BTS and the security companies fault for lax, inconsistant and incoherent enforcement.

And utterly inept training of the guards about how westerners react and should be handled. Not even going into the lack of training in an internationally understood language to make coherent explanations.

Which explains the death threats, they don't want their bosses to find out how slipshod their operation is.

[Ulysses G.]

If the Irish fellow had followed the BTS rules, there would be nothing else to talk about.

But 'they change the rules and enforcement from station to station',

that is the real crux of the issue.

No it is not the issue. If someone gets away with smoking pot at one station, that does not mean that they are free to smoke pot at every other station. This fellow was warned and he ignored the warning and unnecessarily caused everything that followed when he could have just done as he was told in the beginning.

[animatic]

If the Irish fellow had followed the BTS rules, there would be nothing else to talk about.

But 'they change the rules and enforcement from station to station',

that is the real crux of the issue.

No it is not the issue. If someone gets away with smoking pot at one station, that does not mean that they are free to smoke pot at every other station. This fellow was warned and he ignored the warning and unnecessarily caused everything that followed when he could have just done as he was told in the beginning.

No, he tried to talk reasonably to them and got frustrated when they couldn't deal with any rational arguments, and then THEY got agressive with him and he got more frustrated, and kicked the trashcan.

Then THEIR agression went from threatening to violent.

Guard lost face and couldn't deal with it,

and got more and more violent, ending with a gang beating on the platform.

And finally someone else from the company made death threats to try and silence him.

Meanwhile BTS is apologizing to him... a major point many keep missing here.

[ttelise]

It seems the idea to "reveal the brutality of BTS security personnel" by putting this video online thoroughly backfired. Now those who think that "farangs" in Thailand cannot behave decently have a nice little movie to prove it. And it is highly unlikely the public will see any security cam footage that might put the whole affair into another perspective.

Mr. Behan will have to go a long way to settle this affair. Wherever he may be teaching in the future, he can be sure at least one student has his one-man-show on his smartphone - "Teacher fighting for the "Right to Bear Balloons"...

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Sadly, I don't think even posting the full videos of every person in the station with a camera phone and all the BTS cameras are going to change that many people's minds about anything despite what is on the tapes or what is not.

Me personally, I can't imagine anything that could be on the tapes that can excuse this guys behavior in this 1 video but there likely may be something on the tapes that would make me feel just or possible more disgusted with other(s) behavior.

I feel a bit bad for just about anybody though (even if I am also appalled) by video that goes viral showing, what I'd like to believe, are likely somebody's worst few minutes in life.

So true.

[edwardandtubs]

This fellow was warned and he ignored the warning and unnecessarily caused everything that followed when he could have just done as he was told in the beginning.

You've been making exactly the same point (over and over again) for several weeks in a number of threads ever since this incident first came to light. Don't you think you have made your point already?

[luckyluke]

But he was not a policeman! Everyone and their dog wears a uniform in Thailand! you think you should obey them all?

That's exactly what I mean,

we have to listen to men in uniforms (Police, immigration...)and despite we are not always agree with them we obey them because they have the authority which can be frustrated for some of us.

Then we have those other people in uniform with no authority and there of course a lot of us feel superior and tend not to obey them because they just do not have the authority.

And there is the problem with these other men in uniform, knowing that despite their fancy uniform they have no kind of authority and these can lead to some frustations as well.

[whybother]

No, he tried to talk reasonably to them and got frustrated when they couldn't deal with any rational arguments, and then THEY got agressive with him and he got more frustrated, and kicked the trashcan.

Then THEIR agression went from threatening to violent.

Guard lost face and couldn't deal with it,

and got more and more violent, ending with a gang beating on the platform.

And finally someone else from the company made death threats to try and silence him.

Meanwhile BTS is apologizing to him... a major point many keep missing here.

What more reasonable and rational argument can you get than "No, the rules are that you can't bring the balloons onto the train"?

Once you've been told that, why would you kick trash cans?

[Ulysses G.]

If the Irish fellow had followed the BTS rules, there would be nothing else to talk about.

But 'they change the rules and enforcement from station to station',

that is the real crux of the issue.

No it is not the issue. If someone gets away with smoking pot at one station, that does not mean that they are free to smoke pot at every other station. This fellow was warned and he ignored the warning and unnecessarily caused everything that followed when he could have just done as he was told in the beginning.

No, he tried to talk reasonably to them and got frustrated when they couldn't deal with any rational arguments,

HE was breaking the BTS rules. There is no rational argument about why he could not follow them or take a taxi instead.

[Thaddeus]

Let the BTS and the Irish bloke sort it out; they are the ones that count.

So the alleged death threats don't matter then?

The alleged death threat came from the fact that people used the incident for their own gain by posting on u-tube and making the proverbial mountain out of a molehill. If it was allowed to run as only the minor incident it was, then this wouldn't have happened, IMHO.

My last post was just saying that I don't think there is anymore new input into the subject; it has been discussed to the point of it being repetitive now. Sensationalism over stories like this?

There are many more stories out there at the minute like the recent bombings down south, let this one rest.

Purely personal view, but I am sure many others would agree

No the death threats came because the poor guy spoke out publicly

and made the security company lose face. No other reasons is there than that,

they are the only party that benefits by shutting him up.

One word one number.

Group 4.

I would urge most people to look them up, their reputation as a company is more than shallow, their recruitment and training is worse.

Eminently suitable employers in Thailand, renting an over jealous thug doesn't appear to be a problem around here as it is always very easy to sweep things under the carpet.

The BTS have the carpet, they have the dirt under the carpet,, and no one is allowed to see it, as it hurts the reputation of the alleged Land Of Smiles and one of the biggest UK companies, so it's probably best to let the Irish bloke to take the entire blame for the whole incident, then we can all forget about it... yeh, let's just do that.

[animatic]

No matter how noisy he got, he doesn't deserve a group-beating after receiving a head injury.

From that point he was off the leash as many of us would be after being cold-cocked in the head.

Once he got a concussion there is no telling how rational he was able to be.

But that is not the case with Security personal who have NO WOUNDS to show at all.

The security company people handled the thing extremely badly and made it worse progressively.

They made him go up in anger and movement, not down, which is their job:

Minimise disturbances and handle any as simply and as quietly as posible.

They acted like insulted bar bouncers at 1 am , not security on a flagship major city transit line.

No amount of fault of a single individual takes their over the top over-reactions,

and excessive us of force out of the mix. Regardless of if his temper started it,

how they handled it and finished it is utterly unacceptable.