Why Do Some People Moan About Phuket And Others Don'T?

[cdmtdm]

may i ask the OP .. are you satisfied with the level of policing on Phuket ? are you happy with the level of corruption on Phuket ? please answer in the shortest manor possible, so we do not lose the majority of members who take a quick glance , see it is you and move on ...

[HongKongPhooey]

Well, at least it will be a more interesting thread than this one, which is like a cracked record.

I've personally enjoyed this thread. I enjoyed hearing the list of things 'LLOS' likes about the island, very poetic. I liked the fact that for the very first time he admitted that negative posting was born through the frustration and unhappiness in his life, instead of saying that he's just worrying about others. I found it highly amusing and revealing that 'NKM' blatantly admitted on another thread that he didn't know the BIS existed then just tried to make the comment disappear by continually saying on this thread it was a joke. Still waiting for him to explain what the joke was exactly? (yes 'NKM' I know I'm flogging this one) Not to mention some good, well balanced posts about why people have left and why people stay.

So ask yourself a simple question 'KB' Who's the fool, me for taking part in a thread I enjoyed, or you for continually replying on a thread you think is boring and like a broken record. I'm guessing the similarity between you doing that and the people the thread is about is completely lost on you. I don't reply to threads I find boring. Try doing the same, and the time you save you could do some yoga or something.

@ HKP

You state that people who "moan" or who constantly post negative things about Phuket should move away from Phuket. They should go to a place that makes them happier, and more positive.

Why don't you take some of your own advice? If the Phuket forum is not making you happy, you should move to another Thaivisa forum. Then you will make positive posts and be happier.

Have you ever considered the Phuket forum may be the most negative forum on the website because Phuket (which includes Patong) is the scam capital of Thailand?

You have said yourself that a lot of negatives exist in Patong, but not in other areas of Phuket. Maybe Patong needs it's own forum because it's so different to the rest of the island. Where are the members supposed to post about all the negative things occuring in Patong? Currently, it is the Phuket forum. So, if reading the Phuket forum is "not the forum for you" - you should leave and go to another forum that makes you happy and positive.

Where did you get this idea I don't like this forum? Like I said, I enjoyed this thread and I'm not going to apologise to people who didn't. Don't open it and don't read it. Before anyone tells me I should take my own advice, if people start threads about something negative and it's clearly marked in the title then I won't open it for the best part, but when you're half way through a thread about something completely different and someone decides to turn the thread in to one about Jet skis etc then there isn't much I can do to avoid them is there.

We had a thread going about raising teenagers in Phuket. 'LLOS' thought it was intelligent to say that a perfect example of this was JJ!! He obviously thought he had a great idea because he then ran with it and said the exact same thing about JJ in his next 4 or 5 posts. So here we have a thread about raising teenagers and we have 5 posts in a row about a notorious little scum bag raised by a drunk Dutch man and a well known prostitute. Helpful?? Me thinks not!

I agree except - I suspect the majority of posters (who live here) live outside Patong - and yet many experience similar problems.

Few posters just 'moan about Phuket' all the time - so why get upset when they make a criticism?

Another miss conception. I'm not upset in the slightest. Just trying to understand what makes moany people tick, and share my opinion that it's a pretty pointless way to spend your time. 'LLOS' did it for years. It changed nothing except it made him happier to do it. He then moved away because Phuket wasn't right for him, he then stopped moaning. There are several members of this forum that actively try to make people hate Phuket. If you can't see how mental a way for a grown man or woman to spend their time that is, then I can't help you. No I'm not talking about the constant moaning about the bike parking at your local super market that you do, when I say that. For the best part that's in it's own clearly titled thread, I'm talking about the people who hijack threads because they have an ulterior motive, i.e making themselves feel better about their own miserable existence.

In no matter which ‘incarnation-du-jour’ the OP appears, it’s always the same MO with these almost troll-like threads. Starts them to wind folks up, then preaches the same drivel over and over.

Ask questions to provoke opposite opinions, then react to those opposing opinions by trying to convince all and sundry that they only disagree because they are either moaners, maladjusted, hanging with the wrong crowd, or not in control of their lives because they chose to live where they’re not happy. Blah blah blah... B-O-R-I-N-G!

Seems to me that asking questions to induce expected responses, just to argue about them, is the same as arguing with oneself. Which suggests one is actually trying to convince oneself. Which also suggests there may be some insecurity issues involved.

And for the record, I’m happy in Phuket, I realize there are downsides, I realize there are upsides. What works for me may not work for others. What I am willing to accept and willing to overlook may not be the same as for others. Up to me, up to them. End of story.

Wow! I thought I was the amature psychologist. Not true I'm afraid. I don't have any interest in pushing any bodies buttons or winding people up. This conversation started on another thread, I just continued it here so I wasn't the one who took that thread off topic. Yes the topic has been done to death but so what, what hasn't? You don't have anything to add, don't bother with the thread, it couldn't be simpler.

I'm telling the truth when I say I've enjoyed this thread, it helped pass some time which lets face it is a huge part of what forums are for. I do have a genuine interest in trying to understand how different people think and where better than a forum to find lots of different personalities.

Take one of the better members of this forum 'Stevenl'. He made a few on topic posts at the beginning, then felt he didn't have anything else to say so hasn't bothered replying again. He's probably thinking how boring a thread it is but I guarantee he's not bothered about the threads existence or my desire to have started it or post on it. He wouldn't give a monkies. Then you have a member like 'KB' who has made 3 posts on here just to tell me I started a boring thread that he's seen before and he doesn't want to take part in it. The irony of posting to say he doesn't want to take part completely lost on him! There you have two completely different personalities which i find interesting.

I repeat I do NOT try to push peoples buttons or wind them up. If they get that way then that's their hang up not mine. I've enjoyed the thread, if people haven't but still read it and even still posted on it, then more fool them! I believe my comments are justified and have some truth in them. I think my argument that it solves nothing is a strong one, and 'LLOS' is a perfect example of that having moved away with none of the things that upset him having changed, and the fact that they no longer bothered him and he is much happier for it. When 'NKM' moves away and also finds he doesn't feel the need to make the kind of posts he does, what I would call 'moving onwards and upwards' with his life, then my argument will be proved right again.

[NamKangMan]

@ HKP

If you are looking for only positive threads, once again, I suggest the Phuket forum is not for you. You should consider moving to another forum.

If you would like threads to always stay on topic - I suggest you not get onto any forums, anywhere, at all. :)

As for me moving away, only time will tell. The island has changed a lot, and continues to change in a bad way, but like many members have said, so has the rest of the world. The thing is, the Thai authorities had an island here that they should have "protected" from that change, as best they could - thus keeping tourism sustainable, for the long term. However, all they did was join in on the "rape and pillage" and are slowly, or fastly, (it's a matter of opinion) making Phuket less attractive to tourist, and retiring expats.

I have a question for you. You admit Patong has all the negatives. Why do you chose to live just a few kilometres away from such a place? The negative are spreading, island wide. Have you considered you will be engulfed one day?

[HongKongPhooey]

may i ask the OP .. are you satisfied with the level of policing on Phuket ? are you happy with the level of corruption on Phuket ? please answer in the shortest manor possible, so we do not lose the majority of members who take a quick glance , see it is you and move on ...

Firstly, why would I change the way I replied to appease people who don't want to read my posts? I don't spare too much time for them I'm afraid. I'm sure you're right about a lot of members doing that, however I've also had quite a few people 'like' my posts as well so I can't always be saying things that everybody disagrees with all the time can I. If I though that was the case I probably would never post.

I'm indifferent to it is the short answer to your question, just in case anybody's still reading. It was there the very first day I stepped on the island, and I don't think it will be going anywhere soon, which leaves me indifferent to it.

I would consider myself to be a buffoon if I didn't want to live somewhere that operated in a corrupt way and then moved to Phuket! I would rather kill myself than not want to live somewhere there was corruption, then moved to Phuket, and then moaned about it on a forum on a daily basis.

As far as the policing is concerned pretty much ditto. I knew exactly how they were when I first came and they probably won't change, so again if it was going to be something that annoyed me it would have been a poor decision to live in Phuket.

This is where I believe I am fairly balanced and logical. Because if on the other hand I had been a victim of crime several times and the experienced first hand how incompetent they were perhaps I would feel different. But having said that I have known from day one how they work so I would expect to pay a fair whack of money to get the policing I require, so if I didn't have that money after knowing it would be needed, then I would consider that my own fault not the fault of the police or Phuket itself. So even if I had been a victim of crime I still wouldn't feel hard done by because it was ME who chose to live in Phuket armed with all the facts.

The fact is though I have never been a victim of any crime on Phuket, and the thing that infuriates me is that people will insist I'm lying or they will say 'Ah but you've only lived there for a few years, wait till you've lived there as long as me blah blah'

Lots of people live a stress free, crime free, scam free life on Phuket. Why is it the moaners on the forum can't even bring themselves to admit that and agree with it before they point out the negative aspects they so desperately want to? You have people who can and people who can't. The people who can't moan about it when they should spend more time trying to be people who can.

Please explain to me the logic and benefit of moving to a place, not liking things about that place and then moaning about those things? Especially when the things were not only that way before you got there but can be avoided if you're clever enough.

[cdmtdm]

nice reply ... i actually enjoy some of your logic,in my case its the accelerated change that worries me ....change beyond my original projections prior to moving here ,i actually used to enjoy the semi wild west deal here ... but that is no longer fun as i see it daily becoming worse ..as for the future who knows where it will end ...one thing is for certain if the corruption and crime is not cleaned up ,then the island will only attract a lower class of individual on holidays not to invest and stay longterm ....

[HongKongPhooey]

If you are looking for only positive threads, once again, I suggest the Phuket forum is not for you. You should consider moving to another forum.

If you would like threads to always stay on topic - I suggest you not get onto any forums, anywhere, at all.

Just a thread where no one mentions JJ, jet skis, or Tuk Tuks, would be a good start. let's not run before we walk eh!

As for me moving away, only time will tell. The island has changed a lot, and continues to change in a bad way, but like many members have said, so has the rest of the world. The thing is, the Thai authorities had an island here that they should have "protected" from that change, as best they could - thus keeping tourism sustainable, for the long term. However, all they did was join in on the "rape and pillage" and are slowly, or fastly, (it's a matter of opinion) making Phuket less attractive to tourist, and retiring expats.

I don't think the island has changed any where near as much as people say, not in the last 12 years anyway. To people who don't see it for several years and then come back then definitely but to people who see it happen slowly over the years then as even you agree it has not changed any more dramatically than the rest of the world. It's the people who chnage. They run out of money, get divorced, get caught drink driving, get in to a fight with a tuk tuk driver because they were drunk, etc etc. They then feel hard done by when it all comes on top and blame everyone but themselves. Obviously that's not the case with everybody. Some people don't do anything wrong they just want to move, but that still comes more down to them changing more than it does Phuket I believe.

If you do move away and in your new life you don't feel the need to come on this forum any more, and I'm still happy in Phuket, will that then give some credit to my argument or will you still think that pointing out negatives constantly was a helpful, worth while way to spend your time?

I have a question for you. You admit Patong has all the negatives. Why do you chose to live just a few kilometres away from such a place? The negative are spreading, island wide. Have you considered you will be engulfed one day?

'Stevenl' put it very well in another thread recently. You reply to what you think you have read! I have never said I think Patong has all the negatives. I probably used Patong as an example as to where 'LLOS' would come up against all the things he didn't like about Phuket. I love Patong. I wouldn't want to live there but I still love it.

'LLOS' said that the only way to have a problem free life in Phuket is to stay indoors and send your maid shopping. What drivel. I go to Patong a few times a week and pretty much every other part of the island, yet I still have never been involved in any crime or altercation. I have parked on every street in Patong at some time or other but have never been asked to move angrily. Perhaps I'm smart enough to instinctively know where you can and can't park and others aren't.

I have a house in Cherng Telay, and I don't ever see Patong spreading that far some how! If it did would I blame Phuket and moan? No I would move.

You live your life waiting to be 'engulfed' I don't. Where do you live on the island 'NKM' and where else on the island have you lived?

[HongKongPhooey]

nice reply ... i actually enjoy some of your logic,in my case its the accelerated change that worries me ....change beyond my original projections prior to moving here ,i actually used to enjoy the semi wild west deal here ... but that is no longer fun as i see it daily becoming worse ..as for the future who knows where it will end ...one thing is for certain if the corruption and crime is not cleaned up ,then the island will only attract a lower class of individual on holidays not to invest and stay longterm ....

Has what you used to enjoy 'Wild West' as you put it really changed that much? Or could it be that you have just tired of it and require something different from life? Maybe a combination of the two.

This thread wasn't really aimed at people like you who can discuss the issues with Phuket without being obsessed and having tunnel vision about it. If Phuket changes to the point you don't want to live here anymore I'm sure you will just move without any dramas, and you won't feel the need to condemn it on a daily basis until that day comes.

[cdmtdm]

actually you nailed it .... i will continue to come here but not base myself here , perhaps i am tired , perhaps i see too much of the darkside and need a break at the farm ...as for the changes i cannot agree with you ..it has changed in a big way and i think that is where a few of the members find it hard to accept your point of view ... possibly you live a lifetsyle sheltered from the day to day issues we refer to ?

[NamKangMan]

@ HKP

"I don't think the island has changed any where near as much as people say, not in the last 12 years anyway."

You lost me, are your credibility, after that sentence. Seriously. :) :)

[HongKongPhooey]

actually you nailed it .... i will continue to come here but not base myself here , perhaps i am tired , perhaps i see too much of the darkside and need a break at the farm ...as for the changes i cannot agree with you ..it has changed in a big way and i think that is where a few of the members find it hard to accept your point of view ... possibly you live a lifetsyle sheltered from the day to day issues we refer to ?

Nice honest post.

I would't say sheltered is the right word. That makes it sound like I hide from things or as 'LLOS' would imply don't stray far from the safety of my home. I'm out and about most days and I regularly visit almost every part of Phuket, and as I said before that includes Patong. If your saying that you won't see me staggering down Bangla at 4am, then yes you're right I shelter myself from things like that these days.

I also spend a couple sometimes a few months in Europe each year depending on how we feel and what's happening with family, weddings, funerals etc. Does this help me keep a balanced opinion on what both sides of the world are like? Probably. But again, it can't be seen as Phuket's fault that people spend all their time in Phuket without any breaks and it affects them adversely can it. That can only come down to the way they have chosen to live their lives, and that way maybe being wrong for them.

All I can say is whatever changes have happened they haven't affected my enjoyment of life on Phuket, and if they did I wouldn't feel hard done by, I wouldn't blame Thai people, or corruption, or the police, and I wouldn't moan and groan. I would asses my life and my families happiness and if I needed to I would move on. Is that really such a strange way of going about things?

[cdmtdm]

actually you nailed it .... i will continue to come here but not base myself here , perhaps i am tired , perhaps i see too much of the darkside and need a break at the farm ...as for the changes i cannot agree with you ..it has changed in a big way and i think that is where a few of the members find it hard to accept your point of view ... possibly you live a lifetsyle sheltered from the day to day issues we refer to ?

Nice honest post.

I would't say sheltered is the right word. That makes it sound like I hide from things or as 'LLOS' would imply don't stray far from the safety of my home. I'm out and about most days and I regularly visit almost every part of Phuket, and as I said before that includes Patong. If your saying that you won't see me staggering down Bangla at 4am, then yes you're right I shelter myself from things like that these days.

I also spend a couple sometimes a few months in Europe each year depending on how we feel and what's happening with family, weddings, funerals etc. Does this help me keep a balanced opinion on what both sides of the world are like? Probably. But again, it can't be seen as Phuket's fault that people spend all their time in Phuket without any breaks and it affects them adversely can it. That can only come down to the way they have chosen to live their lives, and that way maybe being wrong for them.

All I can say is whatever changes have happened they haven't affected my enjoyment of life on Phuket, and if they did I wouldn't feel hard done by, I wouldn't blame Thai people, or corruption, or the police, and I wouldn't moan and groan. I would asses my life and my families happiness and if I needed to I would move on. Is that really such a strange way of going about things?

no not strange at all its exactly what i have done ... time to move on,,, but i will miss many, many things about phuket and will leave with a good taste not bad of my time here ....

[HongKongPhooey]

@ HKP

"I don't think the island has changed any where near as much as people say, not in the last 12 years anyway."

You lost me, are your credibility, after that sentence. Seriously.

When you consider it's a small island with very little available land and you consider what is happening all over the world as far as over development and the increase in crime, I stand by comment.

In the UK, councils can now knock down listed buildings that were protected because they want to build more houses so we have somewhere to put all the immigrants.

Green belt land that was supposed to be protected is being used for the same.

Do you think me or you could build on that land or knock down a protected listed building? People say I bury my head in the sand but when people talk about corruption they are showing how naive and gullible they are about what happens everywhere in the world. What is a local council paying to be able to knock down a listed building if not corruption?

Do I really need to point out how corrupt politicians are the world over? It would seem I do. So yes, I stand by my opinion that Phuket and Thailand isn't that different to the rest of the world. If anything the corruption and deceit are for more honest as they are there for all to see and not done in such a way that the are trying and succeeding to pull the wool over everybody's eyes. I know which I prefer.

Why didn't you answer my simple question about where you live and have lived?

[HongKongPhooey]

no not strange at all its exactly what i have done ... time to move on,,, but i will miss many, many things about phuket and will leave with a good taste not bad of my time here ....

Glad to hear it, and I wish you all the best.

EDIT: Glad you leave with a good taste, not that you are leaving obviously.

Edited March 30, 2012 by HongKongPhooey

[NamKangMan]

@ HKP

"I don't think the island has changed any where near as much as people say, not in the last 12 years anyway."

You lost me, are your credibility, after that sentence. Seriously.

When you consider it's a small island with very little available land and you consider what is happening all over the world as far as over development and the increase in crime, I stand by comment.

In the UK, councils can now knock down listed buildings that were protected because they want to build more houses so we have somewhere to put all the immigrants.

Green belt land that was supposed to be protected is being used for the same.

Do you think me or you could build on that land or knock down a protected listed building? People say I bury my head in the sand but when people talk about corruption they are showing how naive and gullible they are about what happens everywhere in the world. What is a local council paying to be able to knock down a listed building if not corruption?

Do I really need to point out how corrupt politicians are the world over? It would seem I do. So yes, I stand by my opinion that Phuket and Thailand isn't that different to the rest of the world. If anything the corruption and deceit are for more honest as they are there for all to see and not done in such a way that the are trying and succeeding to pull the wool over everybody's eyes. I know which I prefer.

Why didn't you answer my simple question about where you live and have lived?

So, the wealthy Thai's who pay money to the corrupt Land Titles Office staff to change rai's of public land into their name, is similar to what's happening in the west, is it? Then, when a local jounalist has the courage to say something about it, he gets shot four times in his car, whilst sitting next to his missus, Phuket hasn't changed much. Really???????? AM I BEING NEGATIVE - OR JUST POSTING THE FACTS???? You have been here a while, do you recall any such "land grabs" with these consequences in the past?

Why can't you just admit that you, as have I, have chosen to live in a "developing nation" - better known as a 3rd World County, and accept that crime/corruption rules all. I have accepted this fact, but I am happy to post it exists, and hurts tourists and expats, where you say it does exits, but doesn't hurt anyone, except the "stupid" or "unintelligent."

I have lived, for various amounts of time, in Australia, England, Europe, Mid East and Asia.

Edited March 30, 2012 by NamKangMan

[Guest]

Starting a thread "moaning" about how others "moan" is really quite funny.

I'll not quote the rest. Just wanted to say - great post with multiple views!

[Guest]

Just a few words.

HKP: You constantly refer intelligence and being smart. Therefore I suppose you wish to be one.

However there is a difference between being intelligent and wisdom. First can find his way from the hole where he drop, the latter never drop to it.

Quite often wisdom follows intelligence and therefore the people who are wise have 'been there and done that' already.

Intelligence gives the view of the present and wisdom as it comes with the history, gives the view of the future.

If you think you can make the difference on this island, that's all good. We do need people like you. But if you think that you can just give a rat's ass to the points what people with knowledge how things has been in the past and how things are likely to happen in the future, well.. I would predict that you'll get disappointed at some part of your story.

I would believe that all of us who live in the island wishes it to be a perfect place for us to be. The island's atmosphere has changed during the years and it's not fit for some of us. If the change will go further the island will not fit for more and more of us.

It all comes to the actions what we make. Do we just let this place to be fully controlled by local mafias, OR is there a possibility to change the situation to the better by highlightning wrongdoings on this forum and other medias. There are also other ways how farangs, with hearth, can fight against the mafias. These are not often talked on the forums.

At the end of the day, as said before, we wish to have a peaceful, free, life on this island. Living as a part of the community around us so that we can believe that there is a bright future on front of us.

[HongKongPhooey]

So, the wealthy Thai's who pay money to the corrupt Land Titles Office staff to change rai's of public land into their name, is similar to what's happening in the west, is it? Then, when a local jounalist has the courage to say something about it, he gets shot four times in his car, whilst sitting next to his missus, Phuket hasn't changed much. Really???????? AM I BEING NEGATIVE - OR JUST POSTING THE FACTS???? You have been here a while, do you recall any such "land grabs" with these consequences in the past?

Why can't you just admit that you, as have I, have chosen to live in a "developing nation" - better known as a 3rd World County, and accept that crime/corruption rules all. I have accepted this fact, but I am happy to post it exists, and hurts tourists and expats, where you say it does exits, but doesn't hurt anyone, except the "stupid" or "unintelligent."

I have lived, for various amounts of time, in Australia, England, Europe, Mid East and Asia.

I was asking you were you live on Phuket and what other parts of the island you have lived on, not where in the world.

I can't reply to the rest of your post because it's your usual merry go round approach of posting. You make a point, I address it with a good solid argument, we repeat the process several times until you run out of points for me to bat out of the park with great ease, then you start back at the beginning and start saying the exact same things all over again.

You say you have 'accepted crime & corruption, but I'm happy to post it exists'. To me that is the exact opposite of accepting it. That proves you refuse to accept it, refuse to accept it was like it long before you ever got here and refuse to accept it will still be the same long after you've gone. Accepting it would be getting on with your life and not be obsessed by it on a daily basis.

If you look back over you posts you will see almost every single one is negative. If you had a valid case that you were balanced and not obsessed, wouldn't you post in some of the positive threads as well? Why didn't you bother to post in the 'nice view' thread recently? Do you not get out enough to see any? For your argument to have any strength that you don't have a negative character and don't have an extremely negative, moany outlook on life, you would need to reply to those threads as well, but you don't!

Recently there was a thread about a drunk Farang hitting a bar owner on Phi Phi. Your reply was:

Let me guess, the bill came with extra drinks added on. He refused to be scammed. An atercation took place. She came off second best, so now it's "big payday" for her and the police, through "mediation." (better know as extortion, or, buying your freedom back) If he was the one in hospital, it would just be, "Stupid farang drink too much and fighting." No further police action.

You instantly turned it around to be him being scammed despite the fact there wasn't an ounce of evidence to suggest it and as if what he did was justified even if it had happened. Was that a balanced reply to that post or the ramblings of negative man with an agenda?

Another post where someone just wanted to know if anyone lived in Patong, was replied with:

Phuket does have its negatives, there is nothing wrong with pointing them out to newbies. We all give advice to our friends, who are here for their first time, to stay away from the jet skis, time share etc etc - is that Phuket bashing or sound advice?

Yet another post with the tired old Jet ski routine. On topic, or yet another desperate attempt to shoe horn your disdain for the place you have chosen to live in to every thread you read?

The old saying about if you can't do the time.... comes to mind. If you want to steer clear of positive threads and hone in on the negative ones. If you want to shoe horn your agenda in to post where it wasn't relevant, then go for it. Just be man enough to hold your hands up and accept you have are a negative character and a person who prefers to moan than be positive. You want to do the moaning but want to blame it all on Phuket instead of accepting and admitting that it's the kind of person you are. You are more negative compared to other people than Phuket is a bad place compared to other places! You are more negative than phuket is bad, so you are just using Phuket as a whipping boy for your negativity.

Phuket was the way it is before you and LLOS came and it will be the same long after you've gone. Being a negative nelly on a forum won't change that, and that's a fact!

[HongKongPhooey]

Just a few words.

HKP: You constantly refer intelligence and being smart. Therefore I suppose you wish to be one.

However there is a difference between being intelligent and wisdom. First can find his way from the hole where he drop, the latter never drop to it.

Quite often wisdom follows intelligence and therefore the people who are wise have 'been there and done that' already.

Intelligence gives the view of the present and wisdom as it comes with the history, gives the view of the future.

If you think you can make the difference on this island, that's all good. We do need people like you. But if you think that you can just give a rat's ass to the points what people with knowledge how things has been in the past and how things are likely to happen in the future, well.. I would predict that you'll get disappointed at some part of your story.

I would believe that all of us who live in the island wishes it to be a perfect place for us to be. The island's atmosphere has changed during the years and it's not fit for some of us. If the change will go further the island will not fit for more and more of us.

It all comes to the actions what we make. Do we just let this place to be fully controlled by local mafias, OR is there a possibility to change the situation to the better by highlightning wrongdoings on this forum and other medias. There are also other ways how farangs, with hearth, can fight against the mafias. These are not often talked on the forums.

At the end of the day, as said before, we wish to have a peaceful, free, life on this island. Living as a part of the community around us so that we can believe that there is a bright future on front of us.

I don't claim to be either intelligent or wise. If I was to credit myself with anything it would more likely be common sense and logic.

You talk about having heart and fighting against the mafia!! My question to you would be why on earth would I want to bring my family to live in a place where there was a constant need to fight with mafia??

I can only live in Phuket and raise a family in Phuket because I don't ever need to fight with anyone. That's the logic behind my argument you are missing. If I was affected by the negative things others were affected by, I wouldn't possibly be able to live here or raise a family here and would move immediately.

I would not moan about the place in every single thread on a forum!

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

the palm trees planted on the Thepkassatri

<snip>

Ah! All those lovely old trees, with loads of shade, ripped up to be replaced by boring palmyra trees.

You know the Gazette nearly got shut down because of this article (Oct 10, 2009) by columnist Patrick Campbell who criticised what the Governor was doing:

The following week, the Gazette had this piece of garbage on its FRONT page:

Now, why would that be? One week, their resident nature columnist criticises on page 21, and the following week the Gazette extols the virtues of same trees on its front page! You couldn't make this stuff up.

Oh, and rumour has it that the then Governor Wichai’s brother is the only supplier of Palmyra palm trees in Thailand.

[HongKongPhooey]

Not exactly sure of the point you're making 'Jetset'??

The governor calls the shots. The PG got a telling off for writing something bad about him, and then they duly made amends by writing the exact opposite. They knew like everybody else should that there are rules. You play by them or you forfeit the game, which in their case could have meant them going out of business.

That's why Phuket chews people up and spits them out. They want to put their ideals and their ideas of how things should be done on to people who think otherwise.

I was going to ask you what this had to do with the thread but come to think of it you have inadvertently highlighted why some people may moan. The inability for some people to completely adapt and accept that things are done differently in a developing, South East Asian country could well be the main reason for their frustration and negativity.

[NamKangMan]

So, the wealthy Thai's who pay money to the corrupt Land Titles Office staff to change rai's of public land into their name, is similar to what's happening in the west, is it? Then, when a local jounalist has the courage to say something about it, he gets shot four times in his car, whilst sitting next to his missus, Phuket hasn't changed much. Really???????? AM I BEING NEGATIVE - OR JUST POSTING THE FACTS???? You have been here a while, do you recall any such "land grabs" with these consequences in the past?

Why can't you just admit that you, as have I, have chosen to live in a "developing nation" - better known as a 3rd World County, and accept that crime/corruption rules all. I have accepted this fact, but I am happy to post it exists, and hurts tourists and expats, where you say it does exits, but doesn't hurt anyone, except the "stupid" or "unintelligent."

I have lived, for various amounts of time, in Australia, England, Europe, Mid East and Asia.

I was asking you were you live on Phuket and what other parts of the island you have lived on, not where in the world.

I can't reply to the rest of your post because it's your usual merry go round approach of posting. You make a point, I address it with a good solid argument, we repeat the process several times until you run out of points for me to bat out of the park with great ease, then you start back at the beginning and start saying the exact same things all over again.

You say you have 'accepted crime & corruption, but I'm happy to post it exists'. To me that is the exact opposite of accepting it. That proves you refuse to accept it, refuse to accept it was like it long before you ever got here and refuse to accept it will still be the same long after you've gone. Accepting it would be getting on with your life and not be obsessed by it on a daily basis.

If you look back over you posts you will see almost every single one is negative. If you had a valid case that you were balanced and not obsessed, wouldn't you post in some of the positive threads as well? Why didn't you bother to post in the 'nice view' thread recently? Do you not get out enough to see any? For your argument to have any strength that you don't have a negative character and don't have an extremely negative, moany outlook on life, you would need to reply to those threads as well, but you don't!

Recently there was a thread about a drunk Farang hitting a bar owner on Phi Phi. Your reply was:

Let me guess, the bill came with extra drinks added on. He refused to be scammed. An atercation took place. She came off second best, so now it's "big payday" for her and the police, through "mediation." (better know as extortion, or, buying your freedom back) If he was the one in hospital, it would just be, "Stupid farang drink too much and fighting." No further police action.

You instantly turned it around to be him being scammed despite the fact there wasn't an ounce of evidence to suggest it and as if what he did was justified even if it had happened. Was that a balanced reply to that post or the ramblings of negative man with an agenda?

Another post where someone just wanted to know if anyone lived in Patong, was replied with:

Phuket does have its negatives, there is nothing wrong with pointing them out to newbies. We all give advice to our friends, who are here for their first time, to stay away from the jet skis, time share etc etc - is that Phuket bashing or sound advice?

Yet another post with the tired old Jet ski routine. On topic, or yet another desperate attempt to shoe horn your disdain for the place you have chosen to live in to every thread you read?

The old saying about if you can't do the time.... comes to mind. If you want to steer clear of positive threads and hone in on the negative ones. If you want to shoe horn your agenda in to post where it wasn't relevant, then go for it. Just be man enough to hold your hands up and accept you have are a negative character and a person who prefers to moan than be positive. You want to do the moaning but want to blame it all on Phuket instead of accepting and admitting that it's the kind of person you are. You are more negative compared to other people than Phuket is a bad place compared to other places! You are more negative than phuket is bad, so you are just using Phuket as a whipping boy for your negativity.

Phuket was the way it is before you and LLOS came and it will be the same long after you've gone. Being a negative nelly on a forum won't change that, and that's a fact!

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

[grumpyoldman]

I've been reluctant to pipe in here as it seems like the typical ego trip for livininpatong, bangtaoboy or whatever nic du jour the OP chooses, but really, what I don't get is the byline, "what would have to change to make you leave"?

Seems odd, but maybe par for the course.........

[NamKangMan]

@ HKP

"Phuket was the way it is before you and LLOS came and it will be the same long after you've gone." - No, it has changed, a lot, and in my own opinion, not for the better.

"That proves you refuse to accept it, refuse to accept it was like it long before you ever got here and refuse to accept it will still be the same long after you've gone." No, I accept it, but crime and corruption has got steadily worse since I started living here.

"You talk about having heart and fighting against the mafia!! My question to you would be why on earth would I want to bring my family to live in a place where there was a constant need to fight with mafia??" - By adapting, and developing "workarounds" are you not fighting the mafia, everyday you live here? Eg. no public transport, so you buy a motorbike or car. Maybe many people can not afford to buy a car, or have no place to park it, or are too old to ride a motorbike - why can't they complain about the lack of affordable public transport here? Isn't it a fact there is none, where many other world tourist desinations have affordable public transport? Sure, those complaints will fall on "deaf Thai ears" who make all the money out of the transport system here, but many readers will learn about the issue and what others have done to minimise the affect it has on them. Is that not a positive thing?

"The governor calls the shots." - No, he doesn't. He even admitted in a PG interview recenty that "certain infuential people" would not allow him to fix certain "issues" here. In my opinion, those influential people are hurting tourist, and tourism here.

"That's why Phuket chews people up and spits them out." - If it's such a nice place, like you say it is, why are people being "chewed up and spat out????" If you do get chewed up and spat out, why not tell people of your experience and maybe save someone else from being chewed up and spat out? Once again, is it possible a negative thread like that, could be positive for many readers????

"They want to put their ideals and their ideas of how things should be done on to people who think otherwise." - No, they just don't want to become a victim to the criminal enterprise regime running the island.

"The PG got a telling off for writing something bad about him, and then they duly made amends by writing the exact opposite." - Isn't that what you are trying to do, have everyone on this forum change their posts to what YOU would like to read? If someone posts something "negative" you attack them with insults saying it's their fault for allowing the negative to affect them. You have adapted to living here. Many are still in the adaptation stage. Give them a chance to learn, so they can adapt and overcome, as you have. So much for freedom of speech witht he PG, but you have no control over this forum.

"The inability for some people to completely adapt and accept that things are done differently" - you said it yourself. Perhaps a better title for your thread should have been, "Why can't people adapt to living with the negatives that exist on Phuket and have a better quality of life?" You may just find there are very simple answers. Eg. "I complain about the lack of transport here because I am too old to ride a motorbike." One susgestion to that member maybe living in walking distance, or another member posting the name and phone number of a reliable driver etc. What's wrong with sharing the knowledge of adaptation and our various workarounds?

"If I was affected by the negative things others were affected by, I wouldn't possibly be able to live here or raise a family here and would move immediately." - You were affected, you just learn to adapt to them. That doesn't mean they have gone away, you have just learned to minimise their affect on you. Allow others to do the same.

"I would not moan about the place in every single thread on a forum!" - Every single post of yours is "moaning" about how others "moan." It's very ironic.

"If you want to steer clear of positive threads and hone in on the negative ones." - Most threads seem to be negative. Like in journalism, "If it bleeds - it leads." This means a negative story will be given the front page of the newspaper. It's human nature to show an interest in negative things.

Since you started this thread, there have been other negative threads started by other members. I have not posted on them, not because of you, but because I have just had nothing to input into the thread, but for me, for example, I think it's a good thing to know that Villa are covering rotten parts of veg with wrapping. I don't shop at Villa, but I'm sure the people who do will now peel back the wrapping to check out the veg before buy it, thus not getting ripped off. I will take the knowledge of this practice to the places where I do shop and also peel back the wrapping. In your view, this is a negative post, but it will be a postive post for many and will have a positive affect for many readers. Why can't you see "the glass is haf full - not half empty" in these types of threads and posts on this forum?

Edited April 1, 2012 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

I've been reluctant to pipe in here as it seems like the typical ego trip for livininpatong, bangtaoboy or whatever nic du jour the OP chooses, but really, what I don't get is the byline, "what would have to change to make you leave"?

Seems odd, but maybe par for the course.........

An interesting post.

I suppose that leads to one of the questions that are fueling some debate on this thread - "Has Phuket changed since you started living here, and has that change been for the better, or worse?"

Of course, the whole world is changing, but when talking about Phuket, we can be a little more specific and ask about that change for tourist, and tourism in general. A lot of these changes will raise subjective argument. One change I have noticed is definately in the demographics of the tourists. A lot of Russians, Chinese and Indians now. I'm not say that is good or bad, but definately different to when I started living here.

Also, the massive amount of new construction.

[cloudhopper]

"What would have to change to make me leave?" has to be the dumbest question I have ever read on TV.

If you meant "what would have to change to allow me to stay" the answer is a lot - so I left in 2003. And since then Phuket has turned into one of the most crime-ridden overdeveloped shitholes on the planet.

[stevenl]

Why can't you see "the glass is haf full - not half empty" in these types of threads and posts on this forum?

Very strange remark coming form somebody whose glass is always near empty.

Me, I don't see the point in a thread like this, that is why I did not post here (except for this one post of course). The problem is, as indicated in an earlier thread, that there really is no point in a discussion with somebody who does not even bother to read but replies all the same, presuming he knows what the post read. Quite a few examples of this also in this thread.

And that is all I'll say here.

[HongKongPhooey]

I've been reluctant to pipe in here as it seems like the typical ego trip for livininpatong, bangtaoboy or whatever nic du jour the OP chooses, but really, what I don't get is the byline, "what would have to change to make you leave"?

Seems odd, but maybe par for the course.........

As I said, I started this thread to finish a discussion that was going off topic on another thread. I added that sub title so the discussion could evolve if it wanted to in to a new discussion, or another discussion that could run along side it, as they were very connected. I don't see how it's particularly odd.

P.S Please get your facts right before making accusations you can't substantiate!

Edited April 1, 2012 by HongKongPhooey

[HongKongPhooey]

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

I think with that post we have found your true level.

Where on Phuket do you live, still waiting for an answer, genuinely would like to know.

- No, they just don't want to become a victim to the criminal enterprise regime running the island.

What would you think of me if I moved to the middle East and then started moaning about woman being treated as second class citizens or men being allowed to have several wives? What would you think of me if I moved to a country that had the death penalty and then started campaigning against it? The answer should be that you would think I was a moron. That's exactly the same as what you do!

So much for freedom of speech witht he PG, but you have no control over this forum.

I don't. But are you telling me the powers that be don't either?? You're arguing against your own point there. This forum doff it's cap to the system just like the PG does, and why shouldn't it? You go to someone else's house and they ask you to take your shoes off, you take them off or you go home.

- You were affected, you just learn to adapt to them. That doesn't mean they have gone away, you have just learned to minimise their affect on you. Allow others to do the same.

I don't shop at Villa, but I'm sure the people who do will now peel back the wrapping to check out the veg before buy it, thus not getting ripped off. I will take the knowledge of this practice to the places where I do shop and also peel back the wrapping. In your view, this is a negative post, but it will be a postive post for many and will have a positive affect for many readers.

Not strictly true. I have never been affected by the things you talk about.

I find it amazing that you have just happily admitted that a thread on this forum, has just helped you learn how to buy vegetables!!

That's one of the many points I have made that you just breezed over without addressing because that's what you do best. That (to me) pointless negativity had it's own thread with it's own clear title. That's not what I'm talking about and I've already said that.

Somebody asked recently where to rent a motorbike. The people who gave him advice where was a good place to go based on their past experience WERE helping and giving good advice. You didn't have any such advice to give so you replied with loads of crap about getting scammed which WASN'T good helpful advice because it's not what the OP asked.

Can you not see the difference between someone starting the vegetable thread and you hijacking the request for a good rental shop. Did he ask the question' is riding bikes safe in Phuket' or 'What are the scams I might fall victim to'? No he didn't, hence me saying your obsessive negativity oozes in to every thread. Do you not remember the point I made about it being fine to answer a post 'Are jet skis safe to rent' with advice but not to bring them up in a thread about something else? You were very confused and didn't get the point. Several '&lt;deleted&gt;' from you later and me explaining it again, you still don't get it!!

What you need to understand is the vast majority of normal people can manage to buy vegetables on their own, and if they find themselves in the tricky situation where they purchase a slightly bad one they learn by their mistake and shop elsewhere. If someone asks for a good rental shop he doesn't want you acting like his mother and telling him not to rent one. That's NOT what he asked.

[HongKongPhooey]

Why can't you see "the glass is haf full - not half empty" in these types of threads and posts on this forum?

Very strange remark coming form somebody whose glass is always near empty.

Me, I don't see the point in a thread like this, that is why I did not post here (except for this one post of course). The problem is, as indicated in an earlier thread, that there really is no point in a discussion with somebody who does not even bother to read but replies all the same, presuming he knows what the post read. Quite a few examples of this also in this thread.

And that is all I'll say here.

Actually you made 3 posts on the first page as well.

You're right of course, there isn't a huge amount of point in this thread other than to pass a little time and share some opinions. I know for a fact that some people agree with me because they tell me so, they just can't be bothered to discuss it like I can. Like I said it's something I find genuinely intriguing as to what makes these negative nellies tick, and trying (in vain) to point out what I see as the error of their ways is enjoyable for a while. I think that while has been and gone again though, so we should probably put it to bed. Until next time that is.

[NamKangMan]

@ HKP

"I'd like to see Phuket on motorbike but I'm worried about being scammed/ripped off. For example, I'm worried about returning the bike and them saying I owe for damages for physical or mechanical damage that may have already been present but not too noticeable. Can anyone recommend some companies that you believe are trustworthy or ones you've personally gone through before without problems? I'd prefer to go through a large hotel that rents motorbikes but can't seem to find any, but I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks "

This was the OP for the thread you are talking about. "BUT I AM WORRIED ABOUT BEING SCAMMED/RIPPED OFF" - pretty straight forward request for information on how NOT to get scammed/ripped off on Phuket, don't you think???????? To expand on that request and mention no travel insurance coverage if unlicenced to ride here etc, what's wrong with that???????? Threads evolve So what?

"I think with that post we have found your true level." - Ok, great. I'm at my level, you are at your level. Can we we all move on now? This is a PUBLIC forum. There will be positive posts, and negative posts. Get over it. Don't read negative posts it they affect your happiness, or frustrate you. Let all the "dark negative people" make themselves feel bette,r or whatever you truly think they are doing. They have as much right to post as you do. You will have to "adapt" to it, or move to a different forum. :)

You still haven't answered this question from a previous post: "It's only fair that I can now ask you "rose tinters" a question. Name some good things that have been done for tourists and expats here in recent times?"

I have told you before, and the forum, I live in Patong. So, I see the worst of it. Even if I moved from Patong and went to a quieter part of the island, I would still post about my knowledge of how to avoid, or minimise the impact of scams on Phuket, to new tourist and expats alike. They can take my "left field" views, and your "right field" views, and make an informed decision for themselves. It's all good. It all "balances."

Name one constructive post you have made recently, to tourist or expats, offering your knowledge and advice, or any "adaptations" you have put in place, to avoid a scam or lessen their impact on you????