Thai Democrats Blocking Reconciliation: Natthawut

[Siripon]

And now the fugitive fuhrer, along with his underlings, loves the coupist, General Sonthi

I wonder if Thaksin will give him a Bentley, Mercedes- Benz or Rolls- Royce, as he did with one of the coup leaders in 1991 after they awarded him a contract post coup?.

[tlansford]

Never negotiate with terrorists.

the red shirts are not terrorists.

But that is a common line of argument...

If you place bombs, shoot grenades, attack innocent and spread terror at civilian locations then you are by definition terrorists.

Purely your opinion - but tell me anyway - who shot the grenades? Proof, please, not speculation. You know that the MiB have never been identified. Why not??

And the red shirt protesters were not terrorists. But a lot of them were shot by govt snipers anyway.

But the gov't did claim that they were terrorists even before the protests began.

Edit to add :

"spread terror at civilian locations"

given the reports of mobile phone calls from the Wat on the 19th, then your description of "terrorist" could be equally applied to the army...

Edited March 31, 2012 by tlansford

[yoshiwara]

Agree or disagree, the fact remains that this guy speaks for probably the single largest political constituency in the country. Those opposed can denigrate, besmirch and disparage his comments all they want, but they speak from an electoral minority position. Conversely, respecting these perspectives and this political block, would probably be the best starting point to any "reconciliation" process. Easier said then done, when a sense of political inequality by some, is pervasive to their very core. It is just another reason why "Reconciliation" is 'stillborn' as a valid political exercise.

'the fact remains that this guy speaks for probably the single largest political constituency in the country'

That would be the national Association of Convicted Money Launderers no doubt

[yoshiwara]

BANGKOK: -- The Democrats are allowing their obsession against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to cloud their judgement on national reconciliation, Deputy Agriculture Minister Natthawut Saikua said on Thursday.

Very simple. Take the return of Thaksin off the table and reconciliation can be agreed very quickly. It is the reds and PTP which turn the reconciliation process into a vehicle for Thaksin. Their jobs depend on it.

[TAWP]

Purely your opinion - but tell me anyway - who shot the grenades? Proof, please, not speculation. You know that the MiB have never been identified. Why not??

This is the level the propaganda-posters has stooped to.

Ps. Several MIBs have been ID'd after their arrests. Some was linked to See Daeng. Ds.

[yoshiwara]

Never negotiate with terrorists.

the red shirts are not terrorists.

But that is a common line of argument...

If you place bombs, shoot grenades, attack innocent and spread terror at civilian locations then you are by definition terrorists.

Purely your opinion - but tell me anyway - who shot the grenades? Proof, please, not speculation. You know that the MiB have never been identified. Why not??

And the red shirt protesters were not terrorists. But a lot of them were shot by govt snipers anyway.

But the gov't did claim that they were terrorists even before the protests began.

Edit to add :

"spread terror at civilian locations"

given the reports of mobile phone calls from the Wat on the 19th, then your description of "terrorist" could be equally applied to the army...

0.35 secs

[Siam Simon]

Purely your opinion - but tell me anyway - who shot the grenades? Proof, please, not speculation. You know that the MiB have never been identified. Why not??

This is the level the propaganda-posters has stooped to.

Ps. Several MIBs have been ID'd after their arrests. Some was linked to See Daeng. Ds.

If you want to see an absolute classic example of a forum propagandist in action, view the post by Yoshi that follows yours. The propaganda video that he presents as 'evidence' of the Black Shirt threat is utterly comical: First we have some poorly-taken video of clashes where nothing of any substance can be discerned, then we have some slightly better ones of clashes which show Red Shirts using extremely basic weapons in an appalling clash with security personnel, then we have a completely different scene where there is no violence whatsoever but there is a guy in a black 'stalker' outfit walking around in said non-violent situation brazenly waving a shooter by his side whilst conveniently accompanied by another guy wearing a red shirt.

Anyway, getting back to "propagandist" tlansford's point about the Wat murders: All the independant evidence points to soldiers on a shooting spree. There is not one iota of even vaguely reliable evidence that said soldiers were doing anything other than bullying people sheltering there in the most brutal and lethal way. Suthep's blatant, ugly lies gave the game away on this. I suspect there will be a come-uppance for him, hopefully before he dies of old age.

[OzMick]

Never negotiate with terrorists.

the red shirts are not terrorists.

But that is a common line of argument...

If you place bombs, shoot grenades, attack innocent and spread terror at civilian locations then you are by definition terrorists.

Purely your opinion - but tell me anyway - who shot the grenades? Proof, please, not speculation. You know that the MiB have never been identified. Why not??

And the red shirt protesters were not terrorists. But a lot of them were shot by govt snipers anyway.

But the gov't did claim that they were terrorists even before the protests began.

Edit to add :

"spread terror at civilian locations"

given the reports of mobile phone calls from the Wat on the 19th, then your description of "terrorist" could be equally applied to the army...

"..... who shot the grenades?" Why Tom, have you forgotten the red shirt who confessed and is currently serving most of the rest of his life in a cell? Or the police sgt caught delivering 63 of them? Was the colonel killed by one an altruistic act of suicide to garner public sympathy?

You forget because it suits you to do so, otherwise your support of the red movement won't fit with your pacifist views.

[birdpooguava]

"..... who shot the grenades?" Why Tom, have you forgotten the red shirt who confessed and is currently serving most of the rest of his life in a cell? Or the police sgt caught delivering 63 of them? Was the colonel killed by one an altruistic act of suicide to garner public sympathy?

You forget because it suits you to do so, otherwise your support of the red movement won't fit with your pacifist views.

Abhisit/ Suthep repeatedly claimed 500 terrorists. Well, maybe a few rogue opportunists with rudimentary weapons, but certainly no armed militia. The authorities needed these people as a justification for their heavy handed reaction to the protests, therefore their existence is far more attributable to them than the protesters. Before the May 10 assault, the reds were peaceful. The government on the other hand had snipers positioned on the rooftops & in the classrooms of an all girls' high school nearby. One can only imagine the response of the yellow shirts, barricaded in at the airport behind razor wire, brandishing swords, pistols & bombs, if they had been shot at by the army.

[CalgaryII]

Is a rehash of R'song in above Posts related to this thread, or is it off-topic? I wil posit the notion that the R'song event has a direct link to current 'reconciliation' initiatives, which in turn is the subject matter of this thread. So what is the link? I would suggest that as long as the R'song thing is spun as a legitimate exercise of Government power, even when that Govt. was shown to have limited legitimacy by last years' election, 'reconciliation' initiatives today are 'dead-on-arrival'.

Pro-coup apologists will try to highlight armed resistance by the Protesters. Should there have been such armed resistance, other than what BirdP. describes above as " maybe a few rogue opportunists with rudimentary weapons, but certainly no armed militia", surely they do not suggest that there was a clash of 'equal forces" right???? In fact, the armed resistance of the protesters was very anemic comparatively speaking. Considering the protesters were 80% unarmed women, and the number of protester deaths, speak to that alone. They were faced with a professional, pro-coup trained and armed force.

Then the question is, should the protesters have resisted at all? The argument in favor of that is found in last years election. It showed how correct the protesters were, and how well they understood they were the political majority, governed by a political minority, which gained that position via those very same armed forces, and not electorally. Their motive in protesting was therefore clear, in spite of pro-coup apologists characterizing them as a-political zombies blindly following one person, and anarchic for standing up to them.

So with pro-coup apoplogists insisting on their version of R'song, and the electorally majority protesters theirs, is it any wonder reconciliation is not gaining traction. These fault lines are clearly in evidence by the article heading up this thread, namely accusing the Democrats, the primary beneficiaries of the R'song thing, as obstructing reconciliation then and now. It can be persuasively argued that instead of grossly uneven forces being unleashed at that time, could just as easily have been resolved politically. Those protesters were looking for a face-saving excuse to go home. They were tired of being there. Had offers of earlier dissolution of Parliament been negotiated through to a political agreement instead of what happened, would have set the stage for reconciliation then, that has as a result become impossible now, as we are witnessing. And to the naysayers, I would argue that a politcal agreement was not only possible, but in easy reach. An offer is not an agreement in normal negotiation settings.

Edited April 1, 2012 by CalgaryII

[Mosha]

The two sides should meet half way. Thaksin gets his sentence reduced to one year after which he is free to run the country from Thailand instead of Dubai.

He has no intention of spending 1 minute banged up. So your suggestion is not going to get a chance.

[OzMick]

"..... who shot the grenades?" Why Tom, have you forgotten the red shirt who confessed and is currently serving most of the rest of his life in a cell? Or the police sgt caught delivering 63 of them? Was the colonel killed by one an altruistic act of suicide to garner public sympathy?

You forget because it suits you to do so, otherwise your support of the red movement won't fit with your pacifist views.

Abhisit/ Suthep repeatedly claimed 500 terrorists. Well, maybe a few rogue opportunists with rudimentary weapons, but certainly no armed militia. The authorities needed these people as a justification for their heavy handed reaction to the protests, therefore their existence is far more attributable to them than the protesters. Before the May 10 assault, the reds were peaceful. The government on the other hand had snipers positioned on the rooftops & in the classrooms of an all girls' high school nearby. One can only imagine the response of the yellow shirts, barricaded in at the airport behind razor wire, brandishing swords, pistols & bombs, if they had been shot at by the army.

Your attempt to re-write history gets an F. As in "What a crock!"

M-79 grenades (weapons the RTS specifically eschewed due to prior intelligence they would be used by red shirts) took place from the first days of the occupation. M-79s and RPGs are NOT rudimentary weapons, and the convicted red shirt confessed to use of both. RPGs it appears were a bit too sophisticated for the rudimentary training of the user.

If you have evidence of yellow shorts using either, please present it. Otherwise it is just a troll strawman argument.

[birdpooguava]

"..... who shot the grenades?" Why Tom, have you forgotten the red shirt who confessed and is currently serving most of the rest of his life in a cell? Or the police sgt caught delivering 63 of them? Was the colonel killed by one an altruistic act of suicide to garner public sympathy?

You forget because it suits you to do so, otherwise your support of the red movement won't fit with your pacifist views.

Abhisit/ Suthep repeatedly claimed 500 terrorists. Well, maybe a few rogue opportunists with rudimentary weapons, but certainly no armed militia. The authorities needed these people as a justification for their heavy handed reaction to the protests, therefore their existence is far more attributable to them than the protesters. Before the May 10 assault, the reds were peaceful. The government on the other hand had snipers positioned on the rooftops & in the classrooms of an all girls' high school nearby. One can only imagine the response of the yellow shirts, barricaded in at the airport behind razor wire, brandishing swords, pistols & bombs, if they had been shot at by the army.

Your attempt to re-write history gets an F. As in "What a crock!"

M-79 grenades (weapons the RTS specifically eschewed due to prior intelligence they would be used by red shirts) took place from the first days of the occupation. M-79s and RPGs are NOT rudimentary weapons, and the convicted red shirt confessed to use of both. RPGs it appears were a bit too sophisticated for the rudimentary training of the user.

If you have evidence of yellow shorts using either, please present it. Otherwise it is just a troll strawman argument.

You're not my teacher, Skippy!

What's your evidence of these weapons being used by red shirts? One stool pigeon paid off by the DSI? If there were 500 armed terrorists in the red shirt camp why have they not surfaced? The authorities arguments are laughable and their murderous tactics simply evil. After Suthep claimed that not one protester was killed by the authorities, just this week it was proven that the Italian photographer was slain by a government sniper. One of the many that they had positioned on rooftops around both protest sites, not excluding schools & hospitals.

Your lots' so called evidence consists of red shirts firing firecrackers out of old pipes. There is ZERO evidence of red shirts using 'M-79s and RPGs' as you falsely claim. If there is please post a video in response to this post. lol.

[AleG]

Is a rehash of R'song in above Posts related to this thread, or is it off-topic? I wil posit the notion that the R'song event has a direct link to current 'reconciliation' initiatives, which in turn is the subject matter of this thread. So what is the link? I would suggest that as long as the R'song thing is spun as a legitimate exercise of Government power, even when that Govt. was shown to have limited legitimacy by last years' election, 'reconciliation' initiatives today are 'dead-on-arrival'.

Pro-coup apologists will try to highlight armed resistance by the Protesters. Should there have been such armed resistance, other than what BirdP. describes above as " maybe a few rogue opportunists with rudimentary weapons, but certainly no armed militia", surely they do not suggest that there was a clash of 'equal forces" right???? In fact, the armed resistance of the protesters was very anemic comparatively speaking. Considering the protesters were 80% unarmed women, and the number of protester deaths, speak to that alone. They were faced with a professional, pro-coup trained and armed force.

Then the question is, should the protesters have resisted at all? The argument in favor of that is found in last years election. It showed how correct the protesters were, and how well they understood they were the political majority, governed by a political minority, which gained that position via those very same armed forces, and not electorally. Their motive in protesting was therefore clear, in spite of pro-coup apologists characterizing them as a-political zombies blindly following one person, and anarchic for standing up to them.

So with pro-coup apoplogists insisting on their version of R'song, and the electorally majority protesters theirs, is it any wonder reconciliation is not gaining traction. These fault lines are clearly in evidence by the article heading up this thread, namely accusing the Democrats, the primary beneficiaries of the R'song thing, as obstructing reconciliation then and now. It can be persuasively argued that instead of grossly uneven forces being unleashed at that time, could just as easily have been resolved politically. Those protesters were looking for a face-saving excuse to go home. They were tired of being there. Had offers of earlier dissolution of Parliament been negotiated through to a political agreement instead of what happened, would have set the stage for reconciliation then, that has as a result become impossible now, as we are witnessing. And to the naysayers, I would argue that a politcal agreement was not only possible, but in easy reach. An offer is not an agreement in normal negotiation settings.

Pure, unadultered bullsh** as usual.

[AleG]

"..... who shot the grenades?" Why Tom, have you forgotten the red shirt who confessed and is currently serving most of the rest of his life in a cell? Or the police sgt caught delivering 63 of them? Was the colonel killed by one an altruistic act of suicide to garner public sympathy?

You forget because it suits you to do so, otherwise your support of the red movement won't fit with your pacifist views.

Abhisit/ Suthep repeatedly claimed 500 terrorists. Well, maybe a few rogue opportunists with rudimentary weapons, but certainly no armed militia. The authorities needed these people as a justification for their heavy handed reaction to the protests, therefore their existence is far more attributable to them than the protesters. Before the May 10 assault, the reds were peaceful. The government on the other hand had snipers positioned on the rooftops & in the classrooms of an all girls' high school nearby. One can only imagine the response of the yellow shirts, barricaded in at the airport behind razor wire, brandishing swords, pistols & bombs, if they had been shot at by the army.

Your attempt to re-write history gets an F. As in "What a crock!"

M-79 grenades (weapons the RTS specifically eschewed due to prior intelligence they would be used by red shirts) took place from the first days of the occupation. M-79s and RPGs are NOT rudimentary weapons, and the convicted red shirt confessed to use of both. RPGs it appears were a bit too sophisticated for the rudimentary training of the user.

If you have evidence of yellow shorts using either, please present it. Otherwise it is just a troll strawman argument.

You're not my teacher, Skippy!

What's your evidence of these weapons being used by red shirts? One stool pigeon paid off by the DSI? If there were 500 armed terrorists in the red shirt camp why have they not surfaced? The authorities arguments are laughable and their murderous tactics simply evil. After Suthep claimed that not one protester was killed by the authorities, just this week it was proven that the Italian photographer was slain by a government sniper. One of the many that they had positioned on rooftops around both protest sites, not excluding schools & hospitals.

Your lots' so called evidence consists of red shirts firing firecrackers out of old pipes. There is ZERO evidence of red shirts using 'M-79s and RPGs' as you falsely claim. If there is please post a video in response to this post. lol.

Except for the red shirts caught with such weapons in their possession, of course.

Or those who confessed firing such weapons.

Or those caught on video using them.

Or Kattiya's "hand grenade dance" threat.

Or the Red Shirt bomber that blew himself up at home and a bunch of innocent people for good measure.

Quite obviously you are not interested in facts, you have your mind made up and facts are not welcomed in.

[birdpooguava]

Except for the red shirts caught with such weapons in their possession, of course.

Or those who confessed firing such weapons.

Or those caught on video using them.

Or Kattiya's "hand grenade dance" threat.

Or the Red Shirt bomber that blew himself up at home and a bunch of innocent people for good measure.

Quite obviously you are not interested in facts, you have your mind made up and facts are not welcomed in.

As with you. As i previously posted..please post videos of red shirts using heavy weaponry as u claim happened.

[whybother]

Abhisit/ Suthep repeatedly claimed 500 terrorists. Well, maybe a few rogue opportunists with rudimentary weapons, but certainly no armed militia. The authorities needed these people as a justification for their heavy handed reaction to the protests, therefore their existence is far more attributable to them than the protesters. Before the May 10 assault, the reds were peaceful. The government on the other hand had snipers positioned on the rooftops & in the classrooms of an all girls' high school nearby. One can only imagine the response of the yellow shirts, barricaded in at the airport behind razor wire, brandishing swords, pistols & bombs, if they had been shot at by the army.

I assume you mean April 10, not May 10.

But either way, you seem to ignore the "peaceful protesters" storming government house and Thaicom and using molotov cocktails.

[AleG]

Except for the red shirts caught with such weapons in their possession, of course.

Or those who confessed firing such weapons.

Or those caught on video using them.

Or Kattiya's "hand grenade dance" threat.

Or the Red Shirt bomber that blew himself up at home and a bunch of innocent people for good measure.

Quite obviously you are not interested in facts, you have your mind made up and facts are not welcomed in.

As with you. As i previously posted..please post videos of red shirts using heavy weaponry as u claim happened.

I'm off to have lunch, maybe someone else can take the time to show those, again. Maybe this time it will sink in, but then again true believers are impervious to evidence.

Pure zealotry is so much better than yucky, complicated facts.

[CalgaryII]

All of this stuff about Red Shirt protesters fightback at R'song it seems to suggest that 'fightback' was bad, and coup defence was good. What does anyone think anti-coup protesters do, if not resist the coupists. It seems more apropo to discuss their reasons for protesting, and not their methods. To get a handle on that, one needs look no further than last year's election, which could be viewed to be anti-coup in part.....Elections validated their reasons and invalidated those who suggested narrow, mindless motives - Not complicated.

Edited April 1, 2012 by CalgaryII

[whybother]

All of this stuff about Red Shirt protesters fightback at R'song, seems to suggest that 'fightback' was bad, and coup defence was good. What does anyone think protesters do, if not resist. As opposed to their fightback, it seems more apropo to discuss their reasons for protesting, and not their methods. To get a handle on that, one needs look no further than last year's election.....Not complicated.

Yes. Fightback with guns and grenades. But let's ignore that and discuss their protests starting when Thaksin's money was confiscated.

[phiphidon]

Snip

Pro-coup apologists will try to highlight armed resistance by the Protesters. Should there have been such armed resistance, other than what BirdP. describes above as " maybe a few rogue opportunists with rudimentary weapons, but certainly no armed militia", surely they do not suggest that there was a clash of 'equal forces" right???? In fact, the armed resistance of the protesters was very anemic comparatively speaking. Considering the protesters were 80% unarmed women, and the number of protester deaths, speak to that alone. They were faced with a professional, pro-coup trained and armed force.

Snip

It's a question of proportionality - what is a proportionate response to a protester "armed" with a slingshot or a rock or even a petrol bomb?

Bear in mind that the security forces were ordered to keep a distance of 350 - 400 metres between them and the protesters to avoid confrontation and danger to their lives.

Col. Sansern (Army Spokesman) reiterated that the use of weapons by military personnel is in accordance with the established procedures and rules of engagement. With the use of M79s by terrorist elements, the military would have to maintain a distance of 350-400 metres away from them. Though M79s could be aimed accurately within a distance of 150 metres, it could cause damage as far away as 350 metres. Noting the observation that only a few soldiers have been injured during the past few days, Colonel Sansern said that this was because a safe distance has effectively been maintained away from armed terrorists. As for the observation that weapons have not been found with terrorist elements who went to hospitals to get medical attention, he said that it should be obvious that no one would bring such weapons to hospitals to show the hospital staff that they were indeed armed terrorists.

http://www.tteo.org....-news/?news=454

Also bear in mind that soldiers were instructed to fire only , in the air or in self defence, below the knee. How far can a average person throw a rock, or fire a slingshot, or at the worst, throw a petrol bomb - not 400 metres I suspect and certainly not far enough for the army to think their lives were in danger. This can only lead to the "conclusion" that all the red shirt supporters shot dead by the army were carrying and using weapons that were capable of threatening the lives of the soldiers i.e rifles and handguns.

The lack of these weapons at the photographed and videoed deaths that have been published belies this "conclusion". I am not denying that there may have been some deaths of people carrying or using weapons such as these but 80 odd civilian deaths?

(I've left out the 10/11 soldiers not including the soldier shot and killed by his fellow troops at a road block for obvious reasons)

This cartoon from Thai Rath sums it up.

.

From Thairath, Cartoon by Sia August 9, 2011

Cartoon title: That day, someone died.

Left: The soldier holding the piece of paper that has “CRES Order” written on it says: The boss ordered us to use shotguns. [CRES = Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation]

The other soldier says: The shotguns are all being used in other government duties, so I’m using its mother instead. [meaning they will use a much bigger gun]

At the bottom it says The base says “sniper” and the gun makes sound “bang bang.”

Right: The first soldier says: Hey! They order us to aim below the knees.

The other soldier says: So what? I do aim lower than ‘my’ knees.

http://www.orangeshi...sa.com/cartoons

[yoshiwara]

Purely your opinion - but tell me anyway - who shot the grenades? Proof, please, not speculation. You know that the MiB have never been identified. Why not??

This is the level the propaganda-posters has stooped to.

Ps. Several MIBs have been ID'd after their arrests. Some was linked to See Daeng. Ds.

If you want to see an absolute classic example of a forum propagandist in action, view the post by Yoshi that follows yours. The propaganda video that he presents as 'evidence' of the Black Shirt threat is utterly comical: First we have some poorly-taken video of clashes where nothing of any substance can be discerned, then we have some slightly better ones of clashes which show Red Shirts using extremely basic weapons in an appalling clash with security personnel, then we have a completely different scene where there is no violence whatsoever but there is a guy in a black 'stalker' outfit walking around in said non-violent situation brazenly waving a shooter by his side whilst conveniently accompanied by another guy wearing a red shirt.

Anyway, getting back to "propagandist" tlansford's point about the Wat murders: All the independant evidence points to soldiers on a shooting spree. There is not one iota of even vaguely reliable evidence that said soldiers were doing anything other than bullying people sheltering there in the most brutal and lethal way. Suthep's blatant, ugly lies gave the game away on this. I suspect there will be a come-uppance for him, hopefully before he dies of old age.

The armed red carrying weaponry. Must be a fake red then.

As for shooting spree:

[Roadman]

"..... who shot the grenades?" Why Tom, have you forgotten the red shirt who confessed and is currently serving most of the rest of his life in a cell? Or the police sgt caught delivering 63 of them? Was the colonel killed by one an altruistic act of suicide to garner public sympathy?

You forget because it suits you to do so, otherwise your support of the red movement won't fit with your pacifist views.

Abhisit/ Suthep repeatedly claimed 500 terrorists. Well, maybe a few rogue opportunists with rudimentary weapons, but certainly no armed militia. The authorities needed these people as a justification for their heavy handed reaction to the protests, therefore their existence is far more attributable to them than the protesters. Before the May 10 assault, the reds were peaceful. The government on the other hand had snipers positioned on the rooftops & in the classrooms of an all girls' high school nearby. One can only imagine the response of the yellow shirts, barricaded in at the airport behind razor wire, brandishing swords, pistols & bombs, if they had been shot at by the army.

Your attempt to re-write history gets an F. As in "What a crock!"

M-79 grenades (weapons the RTS specifically eschewed due to prior intelligence they would be used by red shirts) took place from the first days of the occupation. M-79s and RPGs are NOT rudimentary weapons, and the convicted red shirt confessed to use of both. RPGs it appears were a bit too sophisticated for the rudimentary training of the user.

If you have evidence of yellow shorts using either, please present it. Otherwise it is just a troll strawman argument.

You're not my teacher, Skippy!

What's your evidence of these weapons being used by red shirts? One stool pigeon paid off by the DSI? If there were 500 armed terrorists in the red shirt camp why have they not surfaced? The authorities arguments are laughable and their murderous tactics simply evil. After Suthep claimed that not one protester was killed by the authorities, just this week it was proven that the Italian photographer was slain by a government sniper. One of the many that they had positioned on rooftops around both protest sites, not excluding schools & hospitals.

Your lots' so called evidence consists of red shirts firing firecrackers out of old pipes. There is ZERO evidence of red shirts using 'M-79s and RPGs' as you falsely claim. If there is please post a video in response to this post. lol.

Absolutely pathetic

[FOODLOVER]

Grenades anyone?

[geriatrickid]

Except for the red shirts caught with such weapons in their possession, of course.

Or those who confessed firing such weapons.

Or those caught on video using them.

Or Kattiya's "hand grenade dance" threat.

Or the Red Shirt bomber that blew himself up at home and a bunch of innocent people for good measure.

Quite obviously you are not interested in facts, you have your mind made up and facts are not welcomed in.

As with you. As i previously posted..please post videos of red shirts using heavy weaponry as u claim happened.

There are none.

[geriatrickid]

Grenades anyone?

Yes, and as the report states, the people launching them were not identified. It was assumed to have been resdhirts.

What i do know is as follows;

- There were people aligned with the government side seeking to provoke and escalate the events to allow for a serious crackdown. They were unprepared when the military command officers realized what was going on and refused to take the bait. In fairness to PM Abhisit, he didn't take the bait either, but was eventually forced by the growing insistence of the military high command to request a more violent response. This military leadership was soon replaced withmore "reliable" personnel.

- There were opportunistic people on the protestors side who sought to provoke matters as well. As they were often prevented by other protestors from carrying out their plans, their attacks often failed.

- In respect to the visit to the hospital by the redshirts, that seems to be repeatedly cited bt TVFers, there most certainly snipers stationed in the upper floors of the hospital. It was not a bright move by the authorities and most likely taken by one particular commander and one that they attempted to cover up.

- Grenades were thrown, but I do not think they were done either with the tacit approval of the Abhisit government or of the protestors "leaders".

[FOODLOVER]

Must have been the grenade fairies.

[OzMick]

Except for the red shirts caught with such weapons in their possession, of course.

Or those who confessed firing such weapons.

Or those caught on video using them.

Or Kattiya's "hand grenade dance" threat.

Or the Red Shirt bomber that blew himself up at home and a bunch of innocent people for good measure.

Quite obviously you are not interested in facts, you have your mind made up and facts are not welcomed in.

As with you. As i previously posted..please post videos of red shirts using heavy weaponry as u claim happened.

There are none.

If it's not on YouTube it didn't happen?

[geriatrickid]

All of this stuff about Red Shirt protesters fightback at R'song, seems to suggest that 'fightback' was bad, and coup defence was good. What does anyone think protesters do, if not resist. As opposed to their fightback, it seems more apropo to discuss their reasons for protesting, and not their methods. To get a handle on that, one needs look no further than last year's election.....Not complicated.

Yes. Fightback with guns and grenades. But let's ignore that and discuss their protests starting when Thaksin's money was confiscated.

There's no point in even responding to these posters of the birdpoo / Calgary ilk. They are inveterate liars. You know it, they know it, the people that share their sympathies know it. The are either exhibitionists or paid stooges. I doubt the latter because their veil of lies is so easy to see through. Personally, I think they be some drama school students doing a performance art project

I've got to agree with you there. Complete liars who never listen to anything being said orlook at any evidence shown to them. Just a couple of trolls really. I've never got the thing with trolls. What entertainment do they get from it. Strikes me that it can only be fun for people of limited intelligence.

Translation of the last two comments: We are unable to offer an intelligent response or to rebut the points made. We shall therefore cry out troll in an attempt to distract from our inability to respond in a rational fashion.

Gentleman, do not call people trolls because you disagree. I disagree with some of their comments, but they at least substantiate their allegations, unlike those that take the cheap petty shots at the PM or who engage in character assination. How often do you see allegations of bribery or payoff whenever there is an outcome you folks disagree with? That to me is far more troll like and indicative of someone that can't accept an outcome.

[geriatrickid]

If it's not on YouTube it didn't happen?

Yes, there are alternatives to youtube. Please feel free to consult with those many sites and provide an example of the examples the frothers consistently.