American Accused Of Sexually Assaulting 13 Year Old Girl, Arrested By Pattaya Police

[macksview]

slightly off topic, but i hope somewhat relevant.

one of the current adminstration staff, a male, saw a girl hitch hiking, near our facility, it was raining etc, he stopped to pick her up and gave her a lift to town.

he told a couple of us about it, my colleague, described the girl, and had seen her wandering around earlier the day that the admin staffer gave her a lift.

we explained to him never have dealings with the girl, she had a chronic history of making spurious complaints about being sexually assaulted in various themes from gang rapes, to minor things.

worst of it was, she had a serious history of self harm, depression, in fact the serious abuse she suffered from two men, partners of her mother, when a child, no doubt exasperated her destructive behaviour.

good samaritans, and white knights, be careful, a simple act of kindness could make you have all sorts of problems.

back too the topic, i hope the procurer, gives up some more names to the BIB

[webfact]

American arrested for sex crimes against a minor

PATTAYA: -- A retired American businessman has been arrested in the eastern province of Chon Buri and charged with molesting an underage girl and committing a sex crime against a minor, but has denied all charges.

The American, identified as George Edward Webb, 62, was arrested at a rented house in Chon Buri's Bang Lamung district late Wednesday night, Thai News Agency reported.

Police earlier arrested a female procurer who provided girls to foreigners in Pattaya. She confessed to the police that she had delivered a 12-year-old girl to Webb twice in exchange for money.

After learning that the procurer had been arrested, Webb moved several times and changed his mobile phone number. He even gave seven false addresses to the Immigration Police until the authorities received information that he was staying at the rented house.

According to police, Webb used to own a machinery spare parts business in the United States but handed over his business to his children. He came to Thailand and has been living in Pattaya for three years.

Webb contacted the procurer to buy sex from underage girls and often changed his vehicle to avoid being arrested.

Police searched his house and found five motorcycles, one pickup truck and one sedan. Condoms and medications to enhance sexual performance were also seized.

Webb denied all charges.

-- The Nation 2012-03-30

[tonypace02]

I thought Americans only talked about sex.

Incidentally, if this man is truly guilty, when he is finished here, he will have to face criminal charges in the U.S. It is a violation of U.S. federal statutes for an American to engage in sex with an individual in a foreign country under the age of 18, even if the age of consent in that country is 14, as it is in Switzerland, whether consensual or not. I believe the U.K. has similar legislation.

Maybe Americans do have sex, but only abroad.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I thought Americans only talked about sex.

Incidentally, if this man is truly guilty, when he is finished here, he will have to face criminal charges in the U.S. It is a violation of U.S. federal statutes for an American to engage in sex with an individual in a foreign country under the age of 18, even if the age of consent in that country is 14, as it is in Switzerland, whether consensual or not. I believe the U.K. has similar legislation.

Maybe Americans do have sex, but only abroad.

He will only have to face charges in the US if US authorities have evidence enough to indict him. I don't see how they would, though.

Edited March 30, 2012 by NewlyMintedThai

[NewlyMintedThai]

Guilty until proven innocent? Or so it appears on TV.

Completely agree. I'm the last to defend sex offenders, but he isn't one until he's proven guilty.

Having said that, it's a shame that Thai media - TV included - name and shame suspects. IMO, an inexcusable violation of fundamental human rights. But then, even the BBC names and shames suspects.

Press EVERYWHERE reports arrest of suspects.

[anterian]

I think part of the problem is this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais and so this can persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does. I think most of us who have lived here in Thai communities have seen this happening, money changes hands and that's the end of it. When I moved into my present home 6 years ago, several mothers inquired of my Thai partner if I would be interested in their daughters.

[Jaivin2011]

Starnge.....Pattaya and bangkok seems to attarct a lot of reject American Types....amybe the US Embassy and The Thai Immigration should have a progarmme about restricting the typesof Americans who come to Thailand and maybe this programme can later be extended to the British, Germans, Swedes, Taiwanese etc

[RichardinBKK]

slightly off topic, but i hope somewhat relevant.

one of the current adminstration staff, a male, saw a girl hitch hiking, near our facility, it was raining etc, he stopped to pick her up and gave her a lift to town.

he told a couple of us about it, my colleague, described the girl, and had seen her wandering around earlier the day that the admin staffer gave her a lift.

we explained to him never have dealings with the girl, she had a chronic history of making spurious complaints about being sexually assaulted in various themes from gang rapes, to minor things.

worst of it was, she had a serious history of self harm, depression, in fact the serious abuse she suffered from two men, partners of her mother, when a child, no doubt exasperated her destructive behaviour.

good samaritans, and white knights, be careful, a simple act of kindness could make you have all sorts of problems.

back too the topic, i hope the procurer, gives up some more names to the BIB

That is a very good posting and solid advice. it is literally "sad, but true." I am having a "grandpa" moment...a..."back when i was a kid...thing.' Yep. 50 years ago (wow...i just realized how old I have become...seems like yesterday...) when i was 8 years old. it was normal, (and almost shameful if you did not) to help a kid carrying grocery bags home, caught in the rain, hitch hiking, lost...etc.

Those of us lucky enough to come from those times have to listen to your wise words, and bite down hard and just drive on by, not smile and offer to carry a heavy bag, or pick up a kid who fell off their bike and dust them off. Not just Thailand...everywhere.

What the hell has happened to the world? When did the animals take over the zoo?

You advice should be heeded...sad...but very true. Thanks for the reminder.

Edited March 30, 2012 by RichardinBKK

[rijb]

I thought Americans only talked about sex.

Incidentally, if this man is truly guilty, when he is finished here, he will have to face criminal charges in the U.S. It is a violation of U.S. federal statutes for an American to engage in sex with an individual in a foreign country under the age of 18, even if the age of consent in that country is 14, as it is in Switzerland, whether consensual or not. I believe the U.K. has similar legislation.

Maybe Americans do have sex, but only abroad.

You think about Americans having sex? That's kinky.

Edited March 30, 2012 by rijb

[rijb]

Starnge.....Pattaya and bangkok seems to attarct a lot of reject American Types....amybe the US Embassy and The Thai Immigration should have a progarmme about restricting the typesof Americans who come to Thailand and maybe this programme can later be extended to the British, Germans, Swedes, Taiwanese etc

How did you slip through?

[NewlyMintedThai]

Starnge.....Pattaya and bangkok seems to attarct a lot of reject American Types....amybe the US Embassy and The Thai Immigration should have a progarmme about restricting the typesof Americans who come to Thailand and maybe this programme can later be extended to the British, Germans, Swedes, Taiwanese etc

Loser Americans are actually a small minority compared to losers of other nationalities. I don't run into Americans that often there.

Anyway, how the arrest of one American gets to be an anti-American tirade tells us more about you than them.

[RichardinBKK]

I thought Americans only talked about sex.

Incidentally, if this man is truly guilty, when he is finished here, he will have to face criminal charges in the U.S. It is a violation of U.S. federal statutes for an American to engage in sex with an individual in a foreign country under the age of 18, even if the age of consent in that country is 14, as it is in Switzerland, whether consensual or not. I believe the U.K. has similar legislation.

Maybe Americans do have sex, but only abroad.

Oh, don't worry your pretty little head about his future travels if he is convicted and put in Thai Prison. He will never be so fortunate as to see the light of day in the US or anywhere else. He will only have one prayer to offer up, minute by minute and day by day "Please God, just take me now...and in a reasonable amount of time...that prayer will be answered. But that SOB is going to rue the day he was born first.

And yes, of course, Americans only have sex abroad. You are brilliant beyond words.

[RichardinBKK]

Starnge.....Pattaya and bangkok seems to attarct a lot of reject American Types....amybe the US Embassy and The Thai Immigration should have a progarmme about restricting the typesof Americans who come to Thailand and maybe this programme can later be extended to the British, Germans, Swedes, Taiwanese etc

How did you slip through?

Probably the high heels and makeup...

[RichardinBKK]

I think part of the problem is this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais and so this can persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does. I think most of us who have lived here in Thai communities have seen this happening, money changes hands and that's the end of it. When I moved into my present home 6 years ago, several mothers inquired of my Thai partner if I would be interested in their daughters.

Well, congratulations. We have a running bet how long it will take to flip any crime, incident or misfortune to the behavior of Thais. You have gone above and beyond, by suggesting that a normal healthy person can be swayed to perpetrate the lowest and most foul act of all, the rape of a child by the voodoo power of evil Thais.

Of course, we all know the root cause, and evil empire that rules the minds of all Thais and eventually corrupts angelic westerns. Yes, you guessed it! It is none other than the Jet Ski Mafia. They are much like the Borg, and resistance is futile. They will corrupt you soon, and make you do unthinkable deeds. Your virtue and ethics will evaporate, and you too will be reduced to human slime!

Run I say! Run as fast as you can! Find safety back on your Golden Virgin Soil. Hurry, before the dreaded Jet Ski Mafia destroooooooooooys you!

[anterian]

I think part of the problem is this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais and so this can persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does. I think most of us who have lived here in Thai communities have seen this happening, money changes hands and that's the end of it. When I moved into my present home 6 years ago, several mothers inquired of my Thai partner if I would be interested in their daughters.

Well, congratulations. We have a running bet how long it will take to flip any crime, incident or misfortune to the behavior of Thais. You have gone above and beyond, by suggesting that a normal healthy person can be swayed to perpetrate the lowest and most foul act of all, the rape of a child by the voodoo power of evil Thais.

Of course, we all know the root cause, and evil empire that rules the minds of all Thais and eventually corrupts angelic westerns. Yes, you guessed it! It is none other than the Jet Ski Mafia. They are much like the Borg, and resistance is futile. They will corrupt you soon, and make you do unthinkable deeds. Your virtue and ethics will evaporate, and you too will be reduced to human slime!

Run I say! Run as fast as you can! Find safety back on your Golden Virgin Soil. Hurry, before the dreaded Jet Ski Mafia destroooooooooooys you!

I think congratulations are more deserved by you, not only for failing to understand my post, but for a totally juvenile response.

[balo]

I'm happy that the police arrest all the farang scumbags , if they only could arrest all the Thais in Pattaya running mafia businesses as well Pattaya will be cleaned up for good.

Edited March 30, 2012 by balo

[pointoffew]

Guilty until proven innocent? Or so it appears on TV.

Completely agree. I'm the last to defend sex offenders, but he isn't one until he's proven guilty.

Having said that, it's a shame that Thai media - TV included - name and shame suspects. IMO, an inexcusable violation of fundamental human rights. But then, even the BBC names and shames suspects.

Press EVERYWHERE reports arrest of suspects.

Read my post again, please.

Reporting the arrests is not what bothers me, but it's a shame that media name and shame suspects.

Thought I couldn't have been much clearer.

[sirchai]

Thailand the hub of Viagra filled foreigners........

[rijb]

Thailand the hub of Viagra filled foreigners........

... and empty headed observers.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Guilty until proven innocent? Or so it appears on TV.

Completely agree. I'm the last to defend sex offenders, but he isn't one until he's proven guilty.

Having said that, it's a shame that Thai media - TV included - name and shame suspects. IMO, an inexcusable violation of fundamental human rights. But then, even the BBC names and shames suspects.

Press EVERYWHERE reports arrest of suspects.

Read my post again, please.

Reporting the arrests is not what bothers me, but it's a shame that media name and shame suspects.

Thought I couldn't have been much clearer.

Your post implied that the Thai press did something press elsewhere did not. Did I misunderstand?

[metisdead]

A rather unintelligible profanity post has been removed as well as a reply.

[RichardinBKK]

I think part of the problem is this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais and so this can persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does. I think most of us who have lived here in Thai communities have seen this happening, money changes hands and that's the end of it. When I moved into my present home 6 years ago, several mothers inquired of my Thai partner if I would be interested in their daughters.

Well, congratulations. We have a running bet how long it will take to flip any crime, incident or misfortune to the behavior of Thais. You have gone above and beyond, by suggesting that a normal healthy person can be swayed to perpetrate the lowest and most foul act of all, the rape of a child by the voodoo power of evil Thais.

Of course, we all know the root cause, and evil empire that rules the minds of all Thais and eventually corrupts angelic westerns. Yes, you guessed it! It is none other than the Jet Ski Mafia. They are much like the Borg, and resistance is futile. They will corrupt you soon, and make you do unthinkable deeds. Your virtue and ethics will evaporate, and you too will be reduced to human slime!

Run I say! Run as fast as you can! Find safety back on your Golden Virgin Soil. Hurry, before the dreaded Jet Ski Mafia destroooooooooooys you!

I think congratulations are more deserved by you, not only for failing to understand my post, but for a totally juvenile response.

OK let me break it down for you>

Here is your statement:>> "I think part of the problem is this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais and so this can persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does"

",,,,this is a commonplace incident amongst Thais" implies that Thais are pedophiles.

",,,,persuade a farang that when in Rome do as Rome does" suggest that Farang are victims who have been lured into becoming child molesters.

I have not misunderstood your response. I have taken your posting literally.

My hope is that "thou does not protest too loudly"...since we do not know how you responded to the offer of paid companionship of a minor. Of course, we presume that the outcome was one you, i and any civilized person would hope for and be proud of. And i am not suggesting otherwise.

[PoodMaiDai]

Why are the pedophiles always in Pattaya?

You don't hear much about this happening in other areas. Pattaya seems to be a hub for pedophiles.

They must all go there for the golf.

[swerver]

SEVEN (7) address changes on his 90-day reporting constitutes a two (2) year period and nothing seems to have been done to investigate this.

This shows this 90-day Reporting is nothing but a farce. Nothing but something to create a job for somebody (many hundreds of somebodies).

Then there is different motor vehicles, did he register these vehicles?

Then there is five (5) motorcycles, did he register these motorcycles?

The further you dig the more it shows the whole tracking system of foreigners in Thailand can easely be circumnavigated, especially by people with a corrupt personality.

I'm not for Thailand creating more rules, I'm for Thailand to take care of the rules there are on the books already. For this to happen I'm not holding my breath because I would turn blue around the gils.

[pointoffew]

Guilty until proven innocent? Or so it appears on TV.

Completely agree. I'm the last to defend sex offenders, but he isn't one until he's proven guilty.

Having said that, it's a shame that Thai media - TV included - name and shame suspects. IMO, an inexcusable violation of fundamental human rights. But then, even the BBC names and shames suspects.

Read my post again, please.

Reporting the arrests is not what bothers me, but it's a shame that media name and shame suspects.

Thought I couldn't have been much clearer.

Your post implied that the Thai press did something press elsewhere did not. Did I misunderstand?

Holy..... No you did not MISUNDERSTAND, you MISREAD.

Try again, read my comment again, see if you spot "BBC".

If not, comment again and I may buy you a pair of spectacles.

[PoodMaiDai]

In an ideal world, only court convictions would get reported and then the debates would be short. But when every arrest seems to hit the local news that's all we see and react to. I am willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt but cannot help speculating none the less.

Kind of ironic considering Thailand's ludicrous libel laws. You would think the news, if you can even call them that, would release such information considering it is alleged and not yet proven to be fact. Yet if I eat a Joe's Pasta House and make an online review that it was unsatisfactory, they could sue me. However, I could pay the police (yes, they are for hire) to arrest Joe and say he was messing around with kids and the media would run with it, but not the bad review of Joe's restaurant.

Great system.

[PoodMaiDai]

SEVEN (7) address changes on his 90-day reporting constitutes a two (2) year period and nothing seems to have been done to investigate this.

While you are spot on about reporting being a farce, and I totally agree that it is, I don't see anything wrong with 7 address changes. Many people move around a lot thanks to noise, horrible land lords, construction, karaoke bar opens next door, poor internet, and any other reason someone would move. I've moved 7 times in the past 6 years, ALL due to Thai nonsense / noise / cheating landlords.

Honestly, the less you report to them the better. The odds are not in your favor here so in the event you do find yourself in a situation, I'd rather not be so easily tracked down. Depending on where you are, you could have half the police force beating down your door looking for payoffs over a motobike accident where you slightly scratched someone else's bumper. In a civilized country none of this would be an issue, but Thailand... ehhhhh... I'm going to hold onto as much privacy as I can.

[walterego]

Ok perhaps it is just me but please correct me if Im wrong. (as I am sure you guys will ) There seems to be a distinct lack of evidence supporting the prosecutions case. There is simply some pimp lady whose details we know little of saying that he did it, he did 2x12 year olds.

It is terrible to defend a pedophile however I see nothing wrong with defending the otherwise innocent. The police coin this phrase a lot "Innocent UNTIL proven guilty" as it has the unconcious sugestion that ultimately there will be guilt found. However the real phrase from the bar is actually "Innocent UNLESS proven guilty". This man at this point in time, I have to say I feel for as there is nothing but some already caught child sex traffiker who is throwing around accusations. Unfortunately this matter has not been handled properly and if he is guilty a sting opperation would have been the right way to go. They mention they raided his house, took a camera. No mention of anything found. It would suggest by its abscence that there is no evidence , naughty pics etc.. They must have his cell phone conveying messages to the pimp. Howevere that is not mentioned so they probably do not have that either.

The real criminal here is the Pimp as they are making admissions of being a child sex traffiker. Yet the focus is on an american to whom there is no evidence to support the fact. I hope that person gets a full wack. However the American??? there is zero evidence to support the accusation. (at least as it is reported to us here).

Innocent UNLESS proven guilty.

Edited March 30, 2012 by walterego

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Some Thai man has run off my wife's 13 year old Grand daughter from Singburi to Bangkok, the Mother told the police but when the man said he would pay for the loss of face the Mother/police have forgotten about it, that was 8 months ago, no money has been seen as of yet

But anyone who lives in the boonies will have seen Thais doing this all the time and then paying "The families" for the loss of face. I find that more repulsive even though they both fall into the repulsive category!

"Doing this all the time" isn't clear, kids messing around out back of the rice field isn't exactly the same as an older woman pimping a child to a complete stranger for cash. The latter would be very rare, although families in extreme duress may be "forced" to sell off their daughters to procurors for brothels or traffickers, those types of transactions are done under the protection of the powers that be, and of course are considered tragic by all concerned except the pimps and brothel owners. But they are relatively rare.

It is traditional here for a male violating a girl's honor - even just outside-the-clothes petting - to compensate the family as his punishment. The lighter offenses would be say 10-20% of the sin sot, but if he actually has intercourse with her then he has to pay the full amount. Note this has nothing to do with her age, just the fact that he isn't her husband. Often justice will be served by the couple getting married, but not usually if it was a true rape as opposed to statutory.

Regarding the age issue, it is of course normal for poor upcountry girls to have babies around 14-15, not normal but sometimes even as young as 11-12. The luckiest ones will have a village wedding, the unlucky ones leave the baby with mum and head off to work to pay for the baby's milk.

The courts just don't get involved in such personal/trivial family matters, it's considered more like a civil/property problem.

But all the above has nothing to do with sex industry trafficking, and certainly nothing to do with what's allowed at any level for farang - for commercial sex she must be 20, although 18-19 is usually allowed, it's still possible to be blackmailed or even prosecuted in that age range.

And fake ID whatever is no excuse, you have to take responsibility, so if in doubt walk away.

Am I correct to assume that in, Thailand, due process is not a right?

No one has any rights at all if you get on the wrong side of the wrong powerful people, lots of farang "commit suicide" or just disappear and no one even hears about it. That said with the justice system itself, most of the time things do follow a certain pattern and make some sense, so it is a process even if it isn't fully due. Recently the States seems to have been slipping back a bit further in the same direction.

So it would be pretty easy for a powerful person to set you up just to get at you, but much less trouble to just have you meet an unfortunate accident. Much more frequently, the cops will set you up with young girls or drugs and blackmail you though, especially Pattaya and Phuket, but if you keep your head down and your mouth shut, don't present an attractive target 99% of the time you're all right. Foreigners actually messing with younger girls and/or drugs are of course much more prevalent than the mafia blackmail scenario though.

And **of course** the Thais aren't going to apply the same standards for us as they would their own citizens, why would they? In fact our governments put all kinds of carrot/stick incentives in place to specifically target westerners for all kinds of stuff Thais may do and no one cares. So what? Live with it. . .

[BigJohnnyBKK]

However the American??? there is zero evidence to support the accusation. (at least as it is reported to us here). Innocent UNLESS proven guilty.

The pimp's and girl's testimony will be enough. The same level of evidence isn't required to convict here. Might not be fair but it is what it is. If you want stringent legal standards and real rule of law you shouldn't live here.

Works both ways though - if you want to try to get off take about 10% of the money you'd spend on lawyers back home and have it ready as cash to hand over to the BiB at the scene. 50% if you get taken down to the station, probably the whole lot if you get formally charged - each step a lot more people to get paid off.

And this is assuming there isn't someone richer or more powerful opposing you, and little media exposure.