Lpg Stations That Trick By Pumping Compressed Air Instead Of Lpg.

[tobe]

Yesterday I drove to bkk and stopped for lpg as my empty red light was flashing. I said full in thai and they put in about 20kg in the 32kg donut tank.

I drove 5km down the road to see the red light flashing again and I stopped few km latter and 30kg fitted in the tank.

This happens a lot I hear and its a problem in Thailand the lpg trickery.

So I wonder is there some iPhone or android app that lists close by lpg or cng stations and distance to and maybe a star or review system that lists the trickster stations or the trickster staff.

That would be pretty neat.

[Soutpeel]

or of course you could have a gas leak in your system..or is this too simple an answer and not as "sexy" as a scam

[dean999]

I'm no expert but i would expect the tank to still show full on the gauge but your car wouldn't start / run. I would check for leaks.

I'm only looking at it that way because i would expect it shows full / half full / empty by pressure and not the same as a petrol tank. I.E by a float in the tank. So if it's done by pressure, you would need a leak to empty the pressure and that would be with gas or air.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

[jamesbrock]

Was the gauge reading full when they filled it?

I'm no expert but i would expect the tank to still show full on the gauge but your car wouldn't start / run. I would check for leaks.

I'm only looking at it that way because i would expect it shows full / half full / empty by pressure and not the same as a petrol tank. I.E by a float in the tank. So if it's done by pressure, you would need a leak to empty the pressure and that would be with gas or air.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

I'd agree with your reasoning; but, hey, we could both be wrong!

[tig28]

I'm no expert but i would expect the tank to still show full on the gauge but your car wouldn't start / run. I would check for leaks.

I'm only looking at it that way because i would expect it shows full / half full / empty by pressure and not the same as a petrol tank. I.E by a float in the tank. So if it's done by pressure, you would need a leak to empty the pressure and that would be with gas or air.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Hi Soutpeel

Remember that LPG is a liquid -- and that at a given temperature the pressure in the fuel tank shall remain constant --- from 100% full --- down to only a teaspoon of liquid remaining.

Only after the last liquid has "boiled off" shall the tank pressure begin to drop.

Like you I am no expert but I find it difficult to understand how a near empty LPG tank could be repressurised with compressed air and still run the engine at all.

[madjbs]

I have never heard of this before and actually I don't think it's even possible.

[Soutpeel]

I'm no expert but i would expect the tank to still show full on the gauge but your car wouldn't start / run. I would check for leaks.

I'm only looking at it that way because i would expect it shows full / half full / empty by pressure and not the same as a petrol tank. I.E by a float in the tank. So if it's done by pressure, you would need a leak to empty the pressure and that would be with gas or air.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Hi Soutpeel

Remember that LPG is a liquid -- and that at a given temperature the pressure in the fuel tank shall remain constant --- from 100% full --- down to only a teaspoon of liquid remaining.

Only after the last liquid has "boiled off" shall the tank pressure begin to drop.

Like you I am no expert but I find it difficult to understand how a near empty LPG tank could be repressurised with compressed air and still run the engine at all.

Think you are talking to the wrong person..."dean999" made these comments not me....you cant run the engine with compressed air....but lets not let this fact get in the way of a good Thailand scam story....the OP still needs to explain how they got compressed air into his tank ?

[soi41]

tobe. It is a wellknown fact, that all LPG stations in Thailand have a special hose with only compressed air, all part of the big conspiriracy to part farang from his money. May I suggest you spend the next couple of years travelling around the country, to map out all the "trickster-stations". All for the greater good of your fellow expats !

[vtjforyou]

555...

[PattayaParent]

I'm no expert but i would expect the tank to still show full on the gauge but your car wouldn't start / run. I would check for leaks.

I'm only looking at it that way because i would expect it shows full / half full / empty by pressure and not the same as a petrol tank. I.E by a float in the tank. So if it's done by pressure, you would need a leak to empty the pressure and that would be with gas or air.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Hi Soutpeel

Remember that LPG is a liquid -- and that at a given temperature the pressure in the fuel tank shall remain constant --- from 100% full --- down to only a teaspoon of liquid remaining.

Only after the last liquid has "boiled off" shall the tank pressure begin to drop.

Like you I am no expert but I find it difficult to understand how a near empty LPG tank could be repressurised with compressed air and still run the engine at all.

But if it's a liquid and he has a leak then surely there would be evidence in his boot? It would be wet, cold, or there would be a smell of gas when opening it?

I thought it's only actually liquid when they transport it and it's regassified to fill the tank with?

Edited April 3, 2012 by PattayaParent

[wana]

there is no way they sell you a tank of compressed air instead of LPG

thread closed !

[KNJ]

_{Chemistry lesson needed, It is not possible}

[soundman]

Highly doubt this, because if they were filling your tank with, for example, 30% LPG & 70 % compressed air, you would be driving around with the equivalent, depending on the tank size, of a 10 - 30 kg high explosive bomb in the back of your car. Enough to completely destroy a block of flats.

If they were filling your car with compressed air - the engine would not start at all.

Sounds like the OP's tank is venting.

[h90]

I'm no expert but i would expect the tank to still show full on the gauge but your car wouldn't start / run. I would check for leaks.

I'm only looking at it that way because i would expect it shows full / half full / empty by pressure and not the same as a petrol tank. I.E by a float in the tank. So if it's done by pressure, you would need a leak to empty the pressure and that would be with gas or air.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Hi Soutpeel

Remember that LPG is a liquid -- and that at a given temperature the pressure in the fuel tank shall remain constant --- from 100% full --- down to only a teaspoon of liquid remaining.

Only after the last liquid has "boiled off" shall the tank pressure begin to drop.

Like you I am no expert but I find it difficult to understand how a near empty LPG tank could be repressurised with compressed air and still run the engine at all.

no it must measure the level of it. The pressure remains the same till it is empty.

And if you put compressed air to the gas, you have exactly what you have in the cylinder. It might burn....

[h90]

Highly doubt this, because if they were filling your tank with, for example, 30% LPG & 70 % compressed air, you would be driving around with the equivalent, depending on the tank size, of a 10 - 30 kg high explosive bomb in the back of your car. Enough to completely destroy a block of flats.

If they were filling your car with compressed air - the engine would not start at all.

Sounds like the OP's tank is venting.

The old trick for cooking gas is to fill partially water instead of gas....The water is on the bottom, the gas on top....everything working :-)

[soundman]

The old trick for cooking gas is to fill partially water instead of gas....The water is on the bottom, the gas on top....everything working :-)

Learn a new scam everyday.

[WarpSpeed]

I have never heard of this before and actually I don't think it's even possible.

Sounds fishy to me too.. Eventually you only have a tank full of air, my suggestion would be to do what I do and actually look at your gauge before and after and jive that with the amount of LPG pumped there's going to be a discrepancy if a scam is taking place.. Barring that I pretty much use the same stations most times close to home with few exceptions..

Edited April 3, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

I'm no expert but i would expect the tank to still show full on the gauge but your car wouldn't start / run. I would check for leaks.

I'm only looking at it that way because i would expect it shows full / half full / empty by pressure and not the same as a petrol tank. I.E by a float in the tank. So if it's done by pressure, you would need a leak to empty the pressure and that would be with gas or air.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Hi Soutpeel

Remember that LPG is a liquid -- and that at a given temperature the pressure in the fuel tank shall remain constant --- from 100% full --- down to only a teaspoon of liquid remaining.

Only after the last liquid has "boiled off" shall the tank pressure begin to drop.

Like you I am no expert but I find it difficult to understand how a near empty LPG tank could be repressurised with compressed air and still run the engine at all.

But if it's a liquid and he has a leak then surely there would be evidence in his boot? It would be wet, cold, or there would be a smell of gas when opening it?

I thought it's only actually liquid when they transport it and it's regassified to fill the tank with?

Nope LP expands to a gas when it heats and/or is exposed to the atmosphere so it would dissipate but he should get a strong smell of gas.

Additionally about 60 to 70% in your tank remains as a liquid until there is space for it to expand into a gas..

Edited April 3, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[fletchsmile]

I'd take your vehicle to your usual place you trust to do your maintenance and get it checked out properly for any defects. While there ask them about what you think is a scam. The good guys who maintain vehicles properly know the tricks as well.

As an example my wife was asked by a certain petrol station if they could check the anti-freeze. They did and told her it needs changing and she bought two bottles off them which they put in. When she came home she asked me. She went along with it as she was going on a reasonable distance journey and thought better safe than sorry. I said that's unusual as anti-freeze normally doesn't need changing so soon, particularly as the car was quite new. I was more worried there was a problem as it shouldn't happen. Took it back to the legit car show room and service centre we bought the car from as a service was also about due, and I told them of my concerns as shouldn't need changing yet. They checked it along with usual service, and said nothing was wrong but it's not uncommon for petrol stations to do this sort of scam.

BTW They also tried it on with her at the same place a while later with oil, saying it needed changing but this time she was wiser....

We take the car back to the showroom and service station we bought it from, whenever we have a question or something needs doing. Sure we pay a little more for the branded service, but in Thailand it gives me confidence and paying a little more is worth it for the trust and excellent service we get, plus they know us now and as well as being friendly happy to answer any questions

[h90]

The old trick for cooking gas is to fill partially water instead of gas....The water is on the bottom, the gas on top....everything working :-)

Learn a new scam everyday.

Holidays in Yugoslavia.....Gas is sold per kg.

After a couple of holidays my father was puzzled while the gas bottle, still half full, does not give any pressure.

it was half full with water.

every fill some water, till it was half full with water.....

[Ricardo]

tobe. It is a wellknown fact, that all LPG stations in Thailand have a special hose with only compressed air, all part of the big conspiriracy to part farang from his money. May I suggest you spend the next couple of years travelling around the country, to map out all the "trickster-stations". All for the greater good of your fellow expats !

The special hose certainly exists, but most of us use it to top-up our tyres, not the fuel-tank.

[welbymd]

Sounds more like you have a faulty tank level, along with slight of hand at the fuel station. Check to make sure the pump is zeroed.

Compressed air...impossible.

There would have to be a cyrogenic plant next to the LPG station, and what you got wouldn't be "air". Slight possibility of ice forming when fueling up? How long has this been happening and how often does it occurr to you. Maybe you have an issue with just your fuel tank.

[EarthAlien]

I arrived at this thread after some extensive searching for information on LPG refill scams in Thailand.

I say this because on our travels from Chiangmai to BKK and Issan and back we found quite wide fluctuations on mileage from one tank fill to another and even measured this against actual klm's travelled per liter of LPG shown as going into the tank.

The real issue that prompted my search is that we started using an LPG gas station closer to home every week for the past few months. When we fill up it generally costs around 500 to 650 baht depending on how empty we were. I noted that we'd get around 280 to 300klms before running out after a fill up. This equated to around 2bht per kilometer which was higher than the 1.6bht per klm we were getting on longer trips,..plus the cost of LPB has risen by about 12% since our last trip.

Then just last week we called in at our old trusty LPG gas station where we always got good mileage and we filled the tank. We expected a fill up cost again of around 500 to 600bht but it only took 400bht worth (no big deal I though,.. maybe pump pressure was down and the attendant thought we were full?). But the thing is that we got 248klms from that fill which equates to 1.62bht per klm (same as we used to get on a decent trip before). Then today I refilled at the new station closer to home and the cost was 680bht for 46liters (14.8 per ltr which is correct pump price). Now I shall run this tank until the empty red light beep beep signal goes off and if that happens anywhere near the 300klm mark then I am going to assume that somehow this new LPG retailer has either rigged the compression of the LPG or tampered with the pump calibration as that amount of refill should take us around 400klms at least (something that has never happened for us even on long flat country highway runs!).

At any rate,.. I smell a rat as we had the system installed by a very reputable dealer and have had it regularly checked during the past 15 months that we have had it installed.

If the local LPG dealer mileage-to-liters check fails then we will revert to using the old station. Outside of that we must take our chances on the open road and hope for consistant refilling experiences.

[slapout]

Have not been around the LPG systems in Thailand, but I am reasonably sure they have found a way to scew the pooch on their systems, somehow.

LPG is transported and stored in a liquid form, the tank on the vehicle when low on fuel is at a lower pressure than the main supply tank. No pumping system is required to fill the vehicle tank, at 80 to 85% full, the rate of fill will decrease due to pressures being near equal, vapor can be released from the vehicle tank for topping off the tank. The vapor being vented will, when the tank if full, be replaced by liquid. You can feel the fill on a tank by the temperture drop at the fluid level. Yes water will seperate out of the LPG and should be drained on a perodic basis, This is seen in the tanks used for cooking as they sell by weight, thus you pay for some water. The water on a vehicle tank is of no real concern except in extreme cold weather, which we do not have here in Thailand.

[thequietman]

Surely if the tank was filled with air then the back end of the vehicle would lift slightly off the ground and then you would know.

[lovelomsak]

I donot have an lpg fueled car but I used to sell lpg. Where I was from it is sold by weight.So in my humble opinion air would have little or no weight. So the way I see it no weight no sale.Now water that is a different story. Also often ice forms at the connection when filling,and nozzle is cold to the touch. When it is being filled check for cold if worried.