Rented Motorbike Stolen

[jltreed]

I rented a motorbike and it ended up stolen earlier long story short he wanted me to pay for the worth of the motorbike about 50k baht.. We went to the police station i guess for him to report it stolen and I remember to saying he was good friends with some of the police and also he would have to keep my passport until I pay for the motorbike. But in the case I dont pay and just go to the embassy to tell my passport was lost to get a temporary to return back home will it be on record about the stolen motorbike?

He also mentioned dont try to leave the country without paying he said people before did this then when they try to re-enter later they cant come back because of this but I dont know if that is true. Any help would be appreciated because I dont want to end up blacklisted for this. As already I do not trust some of these people renting out motorbikes, for all i know they could of came and took the motorbike themselves... for example I parked it near about 20 other motorbikes right in front of a business where you have to pay 20thb to park there. I come back and its gone, so if real thieves came to steal it they have to take the time to break the wheel lock and what not no one would of seen them? It seems more likely someone had an extra key.

[pattayadingo]

You gave them your passport? That is a U.K. government document and should not have been surrendered.

Did you / they have insurance on the rented bike? That should have covered it. Or maybe you did not insure the bike and then I believe you will be liable for any loss / damage. 50K is not a huge amount if you take into account loss of earnings from the rental company and the cost of the bike.

Odd that the renters might have seen your bike parked in amongst so many others, but not impossible. The rental company might say that you sold / stole the bike too.

Consequences of not paying? I'll leave that to others more knowledgeable but I don't think you will be blacklisted.

[jltreed]

Yes I know now giving my passport was really stupid, but at the time I was in the police station and I was nervous not only that the guy talking with police like their good friends only makes it worse so at the time I didnt know what to do. I asked another falang around older guy he said you could just go to the embassy and get a new passport or temporary to go back home... but just want to make sure I wouldnt have problems re-entering in the future.

If they did have insurance I wouldnt know and they sure wouldnt tell me, but no when I rented i didnt get insurance on it.

Edited April 5, 2012 by jltreed

[smedly]

First and late but you'l know the next time - never rent a bike without insurance, insurance is generally different here from back home, here you insure the vehicle so anyone with a valid driving licence can drive it and be covered, always rent from a falang or good english speaking thai and make sure it has insurance and that they understand you are not liable in the event of theft, never hand over your passport

A lot of these rental companies have been known to sreal their own bikes while you park it up for the night - it's another scam like the jetski scam and will earn them 50kbaht if they get away with it, the cops are most likely in on it too, the bike most likely has insurance as it's illegal to have on the road without it, if you have time you can check this using the bikes id

The bike that was stolen will most likely be up for rent in a few weeks time or once you have gone home all ready for another scam

[JoePai]

First and late but you'l know the next time - never rent a bike without insurance, insurance is generally different here from back home, here you insure the vehicle so anyone with a valid driving licence can drive it and be covered, always rent from a falang or good english speaking thai and make sure it has insurance and that they understand you are not liable in the event of theft, never hand over your passport

A lot of these rental companies have been known to sreal their own bikes while you park it up for the night - it's another scam like the jetski scam and will earn them 50kbaht if they get away with it, the cops are most likely in on it too, the bike most likely has insurance as it's illegal to have on the road without it, if you have time you can check this using the bikes id

The bike that was stolen will most likely be up for rent in a few weeks time or once you have gone home all ready for another scam

I do not think insurance is possible on rental bikes. You have been warned !

[dean999]

"Whooooo's that walking over my bridge", says the troll.

[anto]

First and late but you'l know the next time - never rent a bike without insurance, insurance is generally different here from back home, here you insure the vehicle so anyone with a valid driving licence can drive it and be covered, always rent from a falang or good english speaking thai and make sure it has insurance and that they understand you are not liable in the event of theft, never hand over your passport

A lot of these rental companies have been known to sreal their own bikes while you park it up for the night - it's another scam like the jetski scam and will earn them 50kbaht if they get away with it, the cops are most likely in on it too, the bike most likely has insurance as it's illegal to have on the road without it, if you have time you can check this using the bikes id

The bike that was stolen will most likely be up for rent in a few weeks time or once you have gone home all ready for another scam

I do not think insurance is possible on rental bikes. You have been warned !

I rent from MaiPang rentals in Jomtien .They offer insurance of 50% of the replacement value of the bike for around B50 a day .Its well worth it IMO .They also just keep a copy of your passport ,but you pay B1,000 deposit instead of leaving origional Pass .There are full time motorcycle thives in Pattaya .One area they target is outside big C on 2ND road .They have special tools to break fork lock .Better to also use chain and lock .

[Markland]

You gave them your passport? That is a U.K. government document and should not have been surrendered.

Did you / they have insurance on the rented bike? That should have covered it. Or maybe you did not insure the bike and then I believe you will be liable for any loss / damage. 50K is not a huge amount if you take into account loss of earnings from the rental company and the cost of the bike.

Odd that the renters might have seen your bike parked in amongst so many others, but not impossible. The rental company might say that you sold / stole the bike too.

Consequences of not paying? I'll leave that to others more knowledgeable but I don't think you will be blacklisted.

Some motorbike shops have two young men driving around following there customers so so speak.Once customer parks one of the boys takes the bike.

Happened to a friend here.They wanted 50 thousand threatened him blah blah blah.I told him to tell them all they would get is 10 thousand baht or they could f off.They only had a copy of his passport threatened him saying he will never be allowed back into thailand or leave thailand.He checked out of his hotel so they wouldnt know where he was and he changed his number.Never paid them anything.He has been back to thailand since then about 8 times.No problems.

Sorry my english not to good

[Phil Conners]

Some misunderstandings here. Yes insurance is compulsory, but it is only 3rd party and does not cover the bike itself, neither accidents or theft and the 3rd party coverage does not cover any material damage, only injuries, and only up to 10,000 baht IIRC, and only if the driver has a valid DL. It is virtually useless.

You can purchase additional insurance in multiple steps if you want to be safe but that is not compulsory.

[jltreed]

Okay thanks for the advice, I think them telling the customers if they dont pay they cant come back is just a way to scare them so they will pay the money for the lost motorbike.

[petercool]

Umm ... to get a new passport you would have to make a Thai police report of its loss for the Embassy.

Since that would be a false declaration you would have broken yet another law.

[Markland]

Umm ... to get a new passport you would have to make a Thai police report of its loss for the Embassy.

Since that would be a false declaration you would have broken yet another law.

y

es i was just thinking the same thing

[smedly]

Some misunderstandings here. Yes insurance is compulsory, but it is only 3rd party and does not cover the bike itself, neither accidents or theft and the 3rd party coverage does not cover any material damage, only injuries, and only up to 10,000 baht IIRC, and only if the driver has a valid DL. It is virtually useless.

You can purchase additional insurance in multiple steps if you want to be safe but that is not compulsory.

yes I understand that, the point I was making is that it has to have insurance and additionally make sure it is covered for theft, my mate rents out motorbikes and cars - they are all fully insured, no liability to the customer at all, there are also policies for rental buisnesses but many rarely have it as it is expensive

[PattayaPhom]

Pay the money....you didnt take enough care of somebody elses property.....turn the tables, you would want your money

[monty1412]

Pay the money....you didnt take enough care of somebody elses property.....turn the tables, you would want your money

Nice comment.. tell me how you would take care of someone else's property in this instance, chain it up, drive it into the restaurant that you are going to rather than park where many other bikes are, order takeaway and eat it on the bike while your friends are inside.

What steps could the OP in good faith have taken to " take care" as you put it

[transam]

Pay the money....you didnt take enough care of somebody elses property.....turn the tables, you would want your money

You sure, so the guy must cuddle his rented bike in bed. Twonk.

Edited April 5, 2012 by transam

[champken]

i think i read somewhere that the police are not legally entitled to hold your passport other than for more serious offences, but as we all know what is written in Thai law is up to the discretion of the guy in front of you proudly wearing his uniform so forget about Thai law unless you have loads of cash to throw at a lawyer.

I don't know whether you are a troll or not..i actually hope you are because although the chain of events you are describing were quite common a few years back, i have not heard of this sort of thing going on for some time and the last thing we need here is more crooked police wanting a bite of the cherry.

If what you say is true and i was in your position then i would try and think of a way of getting out without paying the scammers...don't forget, new passport=new number

Edited April 5, 2012 by Rimmer
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[marstons]

Umm ... to get a new passport you would have to make a Thai police report of its loss for the Embassy.

Since that would be a false declaration you would have broken yet another law.

y

es i was just thinking the same thing

what laws has he broken already? the police allowed a normal thai citezen to take a passport off him, as i understand it the police should not allow this. so far he has done nothing wrong but has been a victem twice.

Is it not a civil offence anyway. the police all duck for cover when this happens with jet ski's so why they get involved with a bike. Cant see whats wrong with OP reporting it as stolen.

[Basil B]

Umm ... to get a new passport you would have to make a Thai police report of its loss for the Embassy.

Since that would be a false declaration you would have broken yet another law.

y

es i was just thinking the same thing

what laws has he broken already? the police allowed a normal thai citezen to take a passport off him, as i understand it the police should not allow this. so far he has done nothing wrong but has been a victem twice.

Is it not a civil offence anyway. the police all duck for cover when this happens with jet ski's so why they get involved with a bike. Cant see whats wrong with OP reporting it as stolen.

Because he will have made a false statement...

Also presume in presenting the untrue police report to the British Embassy as required to get a replacement or an emergency travel document may well leave him open to prosecution in the UK also.

This story seems so close to the details of another poster last year who lost several passports, the first in similar circumstances.

[4evermaat]

Umm ... to get a new passport you would have to make a Thai police report of its loss for the Embassy.

Since that would be a false declaration you would have broken yet another law.

y

es i was just thinking the same thing

what laws has he broken already? the police allowed a normal thai citezen to take a passport off him, as i understand it the police should not allow this. so far he has done nothing wrong but has been a victem twice.

Is it not a civil offence anyway. the police all duck for cover when this happens with jet ski's so why they get involved with a bike. Cant see whats wrong with OP reporting it as stolen.

Because he will have made a false statement...

Also presume in presenting the untrue police report to the British Embassy as required to get a replacement or an emergency travel document may well leave him open to prosecution in the UK also.

This story seems so close to the details of another poster last year who lost several passports, the first in similar circumstances.

if its lost, its lost. go to a different area and report it lost.

"2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from TV android app.

[PoolHustler]

If you have to pay for the replacement of the bike tell them you want to keep the green registration book.

That way if the bike mysteriously appears you are the owner

[vel_tins]

If you have to pay for the replacement of the bike tell them you want to keep the green registration book.

That way if the bike mysteriously appears you are the owner

No, in this case you have a green book, which isn't in your name, and will never be, and a bike which is reported as stolen....

Nice combination....

Edited April 6, 2012 by vel_tins

[wjmark]

Pay the money....you didnt take enough care of somebody elses property.....turn the tables, you would want your money

Nice comment.. tell me how you would take care of someone else's property in this instance, chain it up, drive it into the restaurant that you are going to rather than park where many other bikes are, order takeaway and eat it on the bike while your friends are inside.

What steps could the OP in good faith have taken to " take care" as you put it

You sure, so the guy must cuddle his rented bike in bed. Twonk.

I don't generally trust motorcycle rental places. Yes, there is a good chance the bike was stolen by the owners (or their agents of evil). It is an old and well-known scam.

But given the lack of proof, and still a GOOD possibility the owners DIDN"T steal it from you, what else can you do but step up and pay?

Transam and monty1412 - are you really saying that you would stick it to the rental place? With no proof they did it? Would you really take responsibility for somebody else's property, lose it, and then just flit away?

(Of course it will never come down to it, but) I would never lend you guys anything...

monty1412 - you ask, "What steps could the OP in good faith have taken to " take care"?".

As you note, he could have used a lock and chain... No need to "drive it into the restaurant", or "cuddle his rented bike in bed" (Transam)

Transam - I assume you don't sleep with your V8 Pontiac (if that is actually what your name means). I assume you lock it??? Twonk.

Yes, the OP could have (and clearly should have) used a lock and chain - in good faith...

[Gone]

Ok listen. This is what you do:

1) It is a criminal offence for a Policeman or the Renter to take your passport and they are in SEROUS trouble if they do not give it back this minute. They know this

Now what you need to do is go to or call City Hall and talk tpo The Mayor's lawyer. His name is "Tan Tamnanoon". I cannot give you his number here but he speaks good English and will work for free. He will call the Police right away and tell them to give your passport back 110%

They will keep a "copy" of course and if you do not deal with this issue via lawyer or courts and just leave Thailand then there will be a warrent out for your arrest and the next time you enter Thailand you will be arrested and taken strait to Banglamung Police station and held in jail.

If the renter starts the proceedure of pressing charges then you will both be called into the Police station again and the police will ask if you can work it out (pay what the guy asks for) and if you cannot come to the agreement then you will be formally charged and a court date will be set.

At this point you cannot leave Thailand for any reason (even a visa run) and will be charged the maximum overstay. The courts are backed up for about 3 years right now so this is not good for you. The courts (Prosecutor) CAN ask via your embassy to have your passport detained until the trial is finished and your embassy WILL allow this.

As someone has said already, to apply for a new passport due to yours being lost you will first need to make a police complaint to take to your embassy.

Your best options right now are first call City Hall and talk with my lawyer (he is my friend). If they are closed today which I think they are pm me and I will give you his number.

Secondly you should go to Banglamung Police and try to resolve it by offering him 30k or so and just eat crow trust me.

[Phil Conners]

^ Some good advise up there.

And as others have already pointed out, if you rent a bike (or anything really) and anything happens to it while in your possession, stolen, accident, you are liable for it. If you can prove the owner stole the bike you need to go to the police with that, not just run away - but be careful that you are sure you can prove it, because otherwise the libel laws could cause you even more trouble.

In this situation as you explain it, if I was you I'd just pay and chalk it up to experience, and remember to buy a strong chain and padlock next time you rent a bike.

[happyaussie]

No way in the world would you be a marked man for your indiscretion. It's tedious enough going through normal immigration. Imagine the extra complications if situations like yours were added.

Thailand has about 70 million residents, 20 million tourists and god knows how many illegals. There is no way the system could cope with petty issues like yours. They can't even detect major criminals, drug lords or terrorists. This is not meant as a negative slant. All countries have the same issue.

Lesson learnt is that most side walk rental operations are dodgy. And most on beach road are only a step away from the jet ski operators. Enough said there. Never give up your passport, and I always rent from one of the guest houses or farang bar owners. I have no problem paying a little more (and I mean little) for a good, current model bike from someone I feel I can trust. If ever I have an issue I return it and it is replaced, no questions asked

[marinediscoking]

If the bike is less than two years old it should have theft insurance. Most thai's don't buy a new bike without it as it is included the policy, which should pay out about 80% of the value.

If the renter has a police report stating you did not return the bike, it is not too difficult to report it to immigration and put a hold on you on your next return. Even if you have a new passport they will the match your date of birth.

Sounds to me that the owner stole the bike, no rental bike is worth the effort of breaking a extra wheel lock.

I would strongly recommend getting a lawyer.

Just as a side note: My friend found a unattended mobile phone when at the airport while checking in to return home, within a 20 minutes the police tracked him down and arrested him, held him 7 days in jail, paid 150K to settle the case the matter so he thought. When he returned a few months later even though he had a new vis,a he was denied entry and had to return home. Its been about 1 and half years now and he still cannot return yet to see his thai wife and his son.

Pay the 50k if you have to but get a lawyer first.

The advise the VTP gave you complete escapes me when i consider the legal problems that i have been involved with here.

Edited April 6, 2012 by marinediscoking

[Gers1873]

John Belushi famously said in Animal House "you fuc_ked up,....... you trusted us". It would appear you have fallen into a similar situation with the rental company.

Try to negotiate a deal --- offer 20K, TiT, if they are running a scam they will most likely accept your offer. Then chalk it up to the joys of holidaying in Thailand.

[Markland]

Just as a side note: My friend found a unattended mobile phone when at the airport while checking in to return home, within a 20 minutes the police tracked him down and arrested him, held him 7 days in jail, paid 150K to settle the case the matter so he thought. When he returned a few months later even though he had a new vis,a he was denied entry and had to return home. Its been about 1 and half years now and he still cannot return yet to see his thai wife and his son.

Looks like he was set up big time

[Markland]

Then chalk it up to the joys of holidaying in Thailand.