Ensiled Cassava Leafs ?

[ShingDam]

Hello

I would like to know how the process works to make a cassava ("man") leafes silace. If somebody would be able to describe me the process as easy as possible (i stay in Isaan, dont forget it) and where i get what i need (not to costly) i would be very happy !

Thanks

Frank

[RamdomChances]

Basicaly you need to chop it and store it without oxegen getting in.

How much are you thinking of making and what for?

Heres an extract from this link

"Silage Production Practices and Techniques in Thailand"

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/Proceed...nado/chap28.htm

In Thailand, silage has been produced in several methods, enumerated below:

  1. Concrete bunker silos. These are built at dairy farms and government research station with varying sizes. Concrete bunker silo in dairy farms in Ratchaburi and Phrae provinces is 145 cm. wide, 450 cm. long and 115 cm. high with 5 tons capacity.

  2. Concrete trench silos. Built in dairy farm in Petchaburi province with a capacity of 150 tons.

  3. Trench silos without concrete frame are built at Trang Animal Nutrition Station and Petchaburi Animal Nutrition Research Center. Their capacity varies from 20 to 120 tons.

  4. Plastic stack silos are usually set up on solid or concrete floor. A large plastic stack silos (about 35 m long x 7 m wide x 2.5 m high) with thicker plastic sheets are made at Chiengmai Livestock Research and Breeding Center, and its capacity is 200 to 250 tons.

  5. Paper tuber silos. These are the by-products of a food processing company and are widely used as silo in dairy farms at Ratchaburi province. Each tube has a capacity of 100 kg.

  6. Small round-baled wrapped silo is made at many sites of Animal Nutrition Research Center, its capacity is 50 kg.

  7. Silage in black plastic bag is widely used at small dairy farms in Thailand. Its capacity is 40 to 50 kg.

  8. Silage in jumbo bag is used at small dairy farms in Ratchaburi and Petchaburi provinces. Its capacity is 600 to 800 kg.

So you see depending on the quantities there are many different ways to d it.

Here's some other links on the subject.

Ensilaging of tropical forages with particular reference to South East Asian systems.

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/pasture...s/chinpaper.htm

and http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/Data/535.HTM from "Animal feed resources"

Also you could get in touch with your local Animal Nutrition Division they bwill be able to offer you local advice. Here's the web site http://www.dld.go.th/nutrition/Eng/model3/index.html

Oh I make a type of "hay" silage from rice straw "fang mak" we make it in concrete bunkers, about 4meters by 10 meters, enough for about 280 bails of hay at a time.

RC

Edited December 21, 2005 by RamdomChances

[ShingDam]

Dear Rc,

thank you very much for the advise. It is a start.

So i dont need any cemicals ?! And i read the material needed to pressure together.

I just tried it. I took Cassava leaves in a plastik pot i guess about (20-40kg) and took a plastik and barbellweights on the top. (3 days ago).

Now how long i have to wait ?!

My intention is first to find out how it works and later to ensile cassava leaves for feed my goats if it works.

[RamdomChances]

Some people add molasas, just to increase the food values of silage, and yes you need to pack it as tight as you can, mabye you will need some sort of drain, depending on how much water the leaves have when you start the process, very dry thing you have to add some water.

We make a a hay silage, which is more like treated straw than a true silage, we add urea (sold as a fertilizer) and water then cook it for around 2 weeks. It raises the protien level to around 9% from about 3% and makes it more palatable and easier to digest.

Theres a couple of threads around on goats if you do a search, I'm no expert on them as we keep cows. you can make silage in the big blue plastic drums you see here as well. It will probably be a bit of "trial and error" for you to get it right, if you find it's too wet you can pre-wilt the leaves a bit by just leaving them to dry in the sun for a while.

RC

[ShingDam]

hmmm, urea as fertilizer ?! What is the thainame or the label of the product (you know if i ask about urea they wont understand what i mean )

Isnt it dangerous ?! I heard about that, a thaiman which milkcows use some fertilizer inside the food and him told us it is a bit dangerous (but i dont like him anyway).

Are the molasses out of sugercane ?! And how you/or others do it, cut it into small pieces and add it ? (Sorry if i ask to stupid ) but the main problem here is that the food is low quality and any (sure) way to increase the protein level make me listen up.

I guess you know that. How about your cows, experieced you that they grow more fast after you startet with silagefood and addons ?

Do you have thaicows or milkcows ? (I have 20 Thaicows, but they are grassing in the dschungle so i dont have to worry to much about food)

I was to stupid when i bought them, and instead of the big white ones I bought the small brown one (because they had so beautifull eyes, stupid na) - I thoughed that time (2 years ago) smaller cows, smaller pieces, so easier to sell

Ok thank you for your help and good luck with your work

Frank

[chownah]

Try these links:

http://www.iita.org/annrpt/ar04/cassava.pdf

http://www.mekarn.org/sarpro/locmay30.htm

http://www.mekarn.org/procKK/man.htm

http://www.cipav.org.co/lrrd/lrrd17/4/kava17043.htm

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/Proceed...nado/chap28.htm

All except the last one are about cassava silage of various types. The last one is about making silage in Thailand and talks about various types.

Also, about using urea...I think (but I'm not sure) that urea is added when you are making silage from vegetable material that is low on protein...you add urea and the microbes that do the fermenting eat the urea and metabolize it into protein that can be digested by the cow. Cassava leaves are already fairly high in protein so it is not necessary to add urea and I think you'll find that most of the links (perhaps all of them) make cassava silage without urea. From what I've read you can make hay from cassave leaves by just drying them but in the tropics it is sometimes hard to fine dry enough weather to be able to do this so they make silage as a method for preserving the cassava leaves...sort of like sour kraut for cows. Good luck.

Edited December 22, 2005 by chownah

[RamdomChances]

hmmm, urea as fertilizer ?! What is the thainame or the label of the product (you know if i ask about urea they wont understand what i mean

Oddly enough its called "urea" just say it more like "ulae" , its widly used and avalible more or less everywhere. It comes powdered in 50 kg bags and is not at all dangerous, unless you hurt your back picking the bag up

Molasses (gat nam tan) liquid sugar basicaly, you buy it in drum's, I've never used it though, some people just put it on plain hay straw to make it more palatable to eat.

I've got milk cows and the milk production definatly goes up when we feed "fang mak" as opposed to plain straw.

Chownah is right that you dont have to add anything to cassava leaves, and you can just make cassava hay if you can dry it, which shouldnt be a problem at the moment.

We dont do any real silage as we cant produce enough fresh food during the season for then to eat let alone have a surplus that we need to store. The urea treated straw is more of a chemical reaction than a bacterial one I think (I had a link on how it actually worked but cant find it now) It's good for us as the straw is readly avalible all year in large quantities and is reasonably cheap. We have 3 "bunker" silage pits, each with a capacity of around 280 bails of hay (or about 5 tones dryweight) and one lasts around 7 days (I could really do with putting an other one in).

RC

[ShingDam]

Thank you very much for all the help, now i will study the links.

I found urea, and mollasses in really one pot of molasses stand on my land for about 8 month and i always wonder what it is (my wife wanted to start to mix with ricestray but had never the time or whatever else ... yeah thats how the things work here (sorry).

Sundrieing is possible and i did it already, only i ve read about a project (from University in Vietnam) and they found out that the quality and the weigthgain is much more high with silage cassave and the numbers of the counted wormeggs degcreased alot. Only grass about 2500, Cassava sundried 1500, Cassava silage 300 !

Thats why i wanna do it, cuz the goats have exspecially in the raintime wormproblems!

Yeah yeah life is not easy, thanks a lot, i am happy i dont stay alone with all that problems.

Bye

Frank

[RamdomChances]

Thank you very much for all the help, now i will study the links.

I found urea, and mollasses    in really one pot of molasses stand on my land for about 8 month and i always wonder what it is (my wife wanted to start to mix  with ricestray but had never the time or whatever else ... yeah thats how the things work here (sorry).

Sundrieing is possible and i did it already, only i ve read about a project (from University in Vietnam) and they found out that the quality and the weigthgain is much more high with silage cassave and the numbers of the counted wormeggs degcreased alot.  Only grass about 2500, Cassava sundried 1500, Cassava silage 300 !

Thats why i wanna do it, cuz the goats have exspecially in the raintime wormproblems!

Yeah yeah life is not easy, thanks a lot, i am happy i dont stay alone with all that problems.

Bye

Frank

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You should inject with "Ivormec" for worms and other parisites, 1ml/100kg body weight (I may not be right there, but it tells you on the bottle). It provides protection for around 3 months from all sorts of nasty things, but you cant sell the meat or milk for 45 days after. It needs to be injected under the skin so it may be worth getting a vet to do it for you, they are'nt expencive.

"Bambina" is a vet and "bina" keeps goats both are very helpful if you PM them with any questions or problems.

RC

[ShingDam]

I inject Ivomec F, now 2 years every 3 month, maybe in the drytime (next 6 month not) because it may not to good for my goats (after injection, they struggle a bit but later come back).

I ve read that the group of wormers Ivomec belongs to is again roundworms and liverfluke and so on, but not against tapeworms - for them you need another one and i still try to figer out how i could see if they have tapeworms .

A vet is not available (only and a.. hole) him come look from 10 m distance and tell me stupid things like " .. maybe you should start with cows ... ".

But now i have goats and built a goathouse already and i like them, so i wont change, maybe him should change his job . First him told the government that nobody in this area here has goats - him may be jeaulously about the free medicine i get from the government - and so on and so on.

Yesterday I started to make Cassava leaf hay, it still lais in the sun to dry, and then i will have supply for extra protein.

For the Silage i have to prepare first, but everything slowly slowly slowly

Many things to do, nobody should tell me him is bored in thailand.

Frank

[teletiger]

Urea will have a big 46-0-0 on the bag (if it dos'nt say urea).

RC, I'm very interested in your Fortified rice hay operation. I have a 70 head feedlot in Khao Yai. The ruizzi/centro meadows have been slow to come back (even with irrigation) due, I presume to the cold snap. Only enough old jumbo left for about 5 days, and it's so tough the boys are picking their teeth with it Would a first-hand look at how you make it be out of the question? We have a food barn with four 3 sided concrete bays, each 3x5 metres. I would be forever grateful.

regards

Edited December 24, 2005 by teletiger

[RamdomChances]

Urea will have a big 46-0-0 on the bag (if it dos'nt say urea).

RC, I'm very interested in your Fortified rice hay operation. I have a 70 head feedlot in Khao Yai. The ruizzi/centro meadows have been slow to come back (even with irrigation) due, I presume to the cold snap. Only enough old jumbo left for about 5 days, and it's so tough the boys are picking their teeth with it   Would a first-hand look at how you make it be out of the question? We have a food barn with four 3 sided concrete bays, each 3x5 metres. I would be forever grateful.

regards

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem mate I'm in Nakorn Sawan, just send me a PM from here and I'll give you my number ect.

I know an other falang in that (sort of) area doing the same thing, he makes ruizzi silage as well, though he's got a lot of land. Whats your experiance with "jumbo" verses "ruszzi" I've got about 40 rai I want to put over to grass next year and am debating the best to grow, I've done jumbo before but found it just does'nt grow back quick enough and is better suited to "cut and carry" feeding rather than grazing.

Its (the fang mak) is supposed to be good for beef cattle with increaced weight gains over normal hay I recon I get between 10-20% increace in milk yield over normal hay with it, not as good as fresh grass but unless you've got your own a lot cheaper and readly avalible.

Heres a couple of links :-

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/Data/550.HTM

http://www.fftc.agnet.org/library/article/pt2003026.html#0

[teletiger]

Jumbo is good if you have a lot of water....and I mean a lot. If you let it grow too high the cows won't go into it to graze and if they do they are obviously very nervous. best to cut and carry. They find it very palatable, even the woody stems!

The ruizzi for me is better though. Give it enough water and nitrogen and it comes back fast, thick and leafy too. I think next year I'll try 10 rai of signal grass. It takes over the meadow I'm told and the more it's cut the faster it grows. If you need seed then order it now because after Feb it's harder to find and much more expensive....like double.

regards

[JungleBiker]

I’m not a goat expert but I am familiar with a few concepts and resources that I would like to share with you.

Firstly regarding feeding livestock, you should check out the following website for information about tropical forages: www.tropicalforages.info

If you want high protein forage, besides cassava leaves, legumes are the answer. Here in Laos, the legume “Stylo 184” gives good results – use in a cut and carry system, not suitable for grazing. Besides feeding in fresh form it can be made into hay or dried and milled into leaf meal. Stylo is also good for pigs and fish and the leaf meal can also be fed to chickens.

You should also consider legume shrubs such as Gliricidia sepium. If I was growing the Gliricidia I would plant that in rows and in between plant a grass – the Gliricidia would provide some nitrogen for the grass. Gamba grass (Andropogon gayanus) is supposed to stay green throughout the dry season (without irrigation) so that could be used to provide feed without the hassle of making silage.

Another shrub, but not a legume, which is very nutritious with good protein content is mulberry. There are plenty of sources of mulberry planting materials in the northeast due to its value for feeding silkworms. Ruminants such as goats love it. It can be propagated easily from cuttings. If I was growing mulberry, I would plant it 75cm apart in rows say 3 – 4 meters apart and then plant a legume like Stylo 184 in between the rows, this way the legume will provide some nitrogen for the mulberry. According to the website above mulberry also grows well with Gliricidia.

Other excellent sources of information about forages that you can use to guide you in selecting which forages to plant can be downloaded from the web site of CIAT:

http://www.ciat.cgiar.org/asia/publications.htm

In particular I recommend the following two publications which you can find on the above page (they were written by experts working here in Laos so the information is very relevant to Isaan):

Horne, P.M.; Stür, W.W. 2003. Developing agricultural solutions with smallholder farmers—How to get started with participatory approaches. ACIAR Monograph No. 99. 119 p.

Horne, P.M.; Stür, W.W. 1999. Developing forages with smallholder farmers—How to select the best varieties to offer farmers. ACIAR Monograph No. 62. 80 p.

Regarding worms – this is the main constraint on goat production in the tropics. The problem is most severe in the wet season. With proper management you should only need to deworm once per year. What happens is the goats wander here and there dropping their worm infested shit everywhere they graze/browse. The worm larvae crawl onto the grass and the goats eat the grass and continually re-infect themselves hence treating with dewormers doesn’t help much. There are two solutions. One is to keep your goats in a goat house – this should be raised above the ground and have a slatted floor to allow the shit to drop out. You have to cut and carry. Obviously the house costs money though farmers can do wonders with bamboo, but the system works very well. The goats not only grow better due to lack of worms (you have to deworm before you house them) but they don’t waste energy looking for food. The other system is rapid rotational grazing. You need 10 plots, and the goats spend about 3 – 4 days in one plot before being moved to the next, so it takes at least 1 month before they return to the original plot by which time the worms in the shit and grass have died out. You can read more at: www.worminfo.org

Finally, I would like to share here some bad news with RC as I am sure he will be reading this post. There was a conference in Chiang Mai last July. You can download the presentations from this site: http://www.muresk.curtin.edu.au/conference...ings/index.html

One of the presentations - Strategic analysis: a key factor in developing horticultural supply chains in transitional Asian economiesAlan P. George, Robert J. Nissen and Roger H. Broadley - was given by Queensland Department of Primary Industries and in their PowerPoint presentation they said:

• 5 000 VEGETABLE FARMERS IN AUSTRALIA MAY LOSE THEIR LIVELIHOODS (A$500 million) DUE TO IMPORTS FROM CHINA

• GARLIC AND ONION FARMERS IN THAILAND BANKRUPT WITHIN 3 YEARS DUE TO CHEAP IMPORTS FROM CHINA AFTER SIGNING OF FTA BETWEEN THAILAND AND CHINA

• PRICE FOR GARLIC FELL FROM 35 BAHT TO 12 BAHT/KG

• PRODUCTION DROPPED 43,057 TO 17,000 ACRES

• POTENTIALLY 150,000 THAI DAIRY FARMERS TO GO BROKE AFTER SIGNING FTA BETWEEN THAILAND AND AUSTRALIA

[RamdomChances]

JungleBiker. Thanks for that, some nice links in there. I think I'm going to try this for next year, Digitaria decumbens (Pangola grass) http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/Data/70.HTM

thay grow a lot of it around here and we used to buy it in bailed, the cows love it and do very well with it, I'll probably strip graze. The thing with the FTA has been going on for ages now, powderd milk is the problem as its cheaper than localy produced fresh stuff. I'm not particualarly worried about it, although I feel there will be a change in the dairy industry here, with less small farms and more,medium to large ones.

Heres some links for more "grass" type stuff:-

FAO Grassland and Pasture Crops

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/pasture/pasture.htm

FAO Grassland index

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/GBASE/mainmenu.htm

Animal Feed Resources

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/index_en.htm

Cheers RC

[ShingDam]

@Dschunglebiker

thank you for your kind advices . I have a house like you discribed ca 100 sqm, but the idea to select the land in 10 areas could be good, hmm are you sure the worms die in only 1 month ?! In the dry time, like now and the following summer it could be, but in the wet time

I deworm all 3 month (sometimes i think its too much cuz of the stress of absorbing the dewormer) so i try to avoid deworming in the dry time.

But i could know only sure if i would be able to make an egg count (to stressfull)

So i will start to make cassava hay (and silace) because it is known for his ability to decrease worm and coccidia in goats.

Now here around nobody takes cassava out because the earth is granithard, so i need to take a deep breath and buy commercial food. (cubes, like for cows)

I had a big prob. with coccidia but i think now i am around the corner (thanks bina her made me doesnt feel to lonely with my probs.)

My animals looks great now.

Last time i visit a farrang with a milk cow farm 100 Animals !!! and this cows looked similar to my sick and later death goats (horrible). Maybe the same Problem ?!?! but he wasnt there only the members of his family so i couldnt talk with him.

Thanks too about the advice how to plant.

I found out till now, leuceana, gliricidia, cassava (tubes and leafs), GUINEA GRASS (FOR GOATS !!! IMPORTANT <<< not the grass but if a grass then NOT ruzzi for cows it is a different story.

I bought a pack Jambo (again without knowledge what kind of grass it is and how it works with goats) The problem i stay far from Korat and if i see a new thing i buy it (dont wanna come back again and again).

@dschunglebiker again ... how i explain my wife what mulberry is and it is easy to raise ? (water, bugs and so on) I always hot about foodnews .

Now when i want feed leuceana or gliricidia i can see it is full of bugs and the goats dont like to eat it.

Somebody has some experiences how to care or need i only wait to the next season ?

Thanks everybody

frank

[z21rhd]

JungleBiker. Thanks for that, some nice links in there. I think I'm going to try this for next year, Digitaria decumbens (Pangola grass) http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/Data/70.HTM

thay grow a lot of it around here and we used to buy it in bailed, the cows love it and do very well with it, I'll probably strip graze. The thing with the FTA has been going on for ages now, powderd milk is the problem as its cheaper than localy produced fresh stuff. I'm not particualarly worried about it, although I feel there will be a change in the dairy industry here, with less small farms and more,medium to large ones.

Heres some links for more "grass" type stuff:-

FAO Grassland and Pasture Crops

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/pasture/pasture.htm

FAO Grassland index

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/GBASE/mainmenu.htm

Animal Feed Resources

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/index_en.htm

Cheers RC

Greetings

Any idea where one can buy Mollasses Urea Lick blocks ?? In N.E. Thailand ???

[RamdomChances]

JungleBiker. Thanks for that, some nice links in there. I think I'm going to try this for next year, Digitaria decumbens (Pangola grass) http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/Data/70.HTM

thay grow a lot of it around here and we used to buy it in bailed, the cows love it and do very well with it, I'll probably strip graze. The thing with the FTA has been going on for ages now, powderd milk is the problem as its cheaper than localy produced fresh stuff. I'm not particualarly worried about it, although I feel there will be a change in the dairy industry here, with less small farms and more,medium to large ones.

Heres some links for more "grass" type stuff:-

FAO Grassland and Pasture Crops

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/pasture/pasture.htm

FAO Grassland index

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/GBASE/mainmenu.htm

Animal Feed Resources

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/index_en.htm

Cheers RC

Greetings

Any idea where one can buy Mollasses Urea Lick blocks ?? In N.E. Thailand ???

I don't even know where to buy them around here, let alone NE

Here a link for making your own, basicaly Urea, Molasses and ...er um...concrete

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/AGAP/FRG/AFRIS/Data/557.HTM

RC

[JungleBiker]

Hi ShingDam,

Mulberry is very well known in Isaan because it is used to feed silkworms – silkworms will not eat anything else! I think the Thai name is “mon” or perhaps that should be “ton mon”. I am sure there is a sericulture research center near your place where you can get plants. They will probably have 2 or 3 varieties - I suggest you get some of each and then compare which ones grow best. It is easy to grow, but will give better results with fertilizer (e.g. goat shit!). It can survive the dry season, but if you can irrigate you will get forage all the year.

You should also definitely try the STYLO (I believe there are two types: 184 and Verano – so try both to see which is best for you). Plant it between your mulberry or other shrubs or in blocks next to your grass. It will grow for 2 – 3 years then die, but it might reseed itself. I am sure you can get seed locally from a government station in Korat.

About the 30-day cycle for rapid rotational grazing. I am only quoting the information from the experts and I believe these particular experts (at the International Livestock Research Institute). The goats deposits eggs on the pasture, but those eggs hatch and normally the goat consumes the larvae (young worms) not the eggs. I don’t think those young larvae can live too long outside a goat.

I read before that the way to treat the bugs in leucaena is to let the livestock graze the plants so they eat bugs too and then the plants regrow bug free, but if your goats wont eat the bugs I am not what you can do about them. Would cattle graze them instead?

Best regards,

JungleBiker

@Dschunglebiker

hmm are you sure the worms die in only 1 month ?! In the dry time, like now and the following summer it could be, but in the wet time

how i explain my wife what mulberry is and it is easy to raise ? (water, bugs and so on) I always hot about foodnews .

Now when i want feed leuceana or gliricidia i can see it is full of bugs and the goats dont like to eat it.

Somebody has some experiences how to care or need i only wait to the next season ?

Thanks everybody

frank