'If The Justice System Is Strong, We Will Have Peace,' Chairman Believes: Thailand

[hyperdimension]

You don't need to be PM when you are rich enough to buy him.

... or her and "her" political party.

Edited April 9, 2012 by hyperdimension

[MEL1]

IMO that was Thaksin's real crime, making the poor realize they can have an impact on which corrupt elite mafia network rules over them.

Thaksin's *real crime*, the start of where all the countries current problems can be accurately pointed back to, was his sale of AIS to Temasek and his modifications of the law to ensure he obtained maximum profits. An achievement he subsequently boasted about.

It wasn't the "elite" being jealous and/or weary about his support. This is a myth perpetuated by red shirt supporters and PR groups as an attempt to legitimise his actions. Why is it a myth? Because the very people the Thaksin PR side claim were jealous/weary of his support actually voted for him during the 2005 elections, securing his final election victory before the sale of AIS was complete (and even public knowledge at the time). These elections occurred after the implementation of his "populist policies" which were supposed to have driven the very powerful "elite" people who voted for him away.

If the sale of AIS was completed before he became PM, or it was handled in a more transparent and fair manor, there would of been no PAD protests, no coup and none of the red-shirt instigated chaos we've seen over the years since.

There is a tacit understanding among the wealthy of Bangkok though that they play the business game along of the lines of keeping foreigners out. They keep the governments in line about this issue, do their business and largely pay their due taxes. By this I am talking the very large conglomerates. They pay their dues in return for protection from the big wide world market. Thaksin had an enormous problem, he had a technology company that needed a ton of new money to upgrade itself, and he didn't want to keep it. What to do? Sell to whom? CP already had a phone company, the richest in Thailand weren't interested, so sell to whom? The only option was overseas.

Now you can wonder about the details, but the financial industry was slated for some kind of reform within 10 years of the IMF deal in 1997, and it never came, but Thaksin did issue a new license to L&H bank, and after seeing what he did with AIS, I think this really put the cat among the pigeons. Just look at how CP was with him, but rapidly slinked off into the shadows. He scared the bejeesus out of them by appearing to start to dismantle the very protections that had made them all billionaires, just in the same way that the IMF deals and the reform of the telecoms opened him up to competition.

Basically he took his company as far as he wanted and flogged it, but the blue rinsed Tatler brigade of Bangkok were very much caught out by this and realised that if he kept going, the farang companies were going to be on their doorstep pretty quickly and the days of monopoly profit on ATM transfers and continually manipulating rice markets and the such were going to be long gone. So they canned him forthwith, but unfortunately, never landed the knock out punch, so expect some pretty big payback when he finally gets back in here.

Nobody seemed to take much notice when the Bencharongkul family sold DTAC to Norway (retaining 9% in a nominee holding company) in a similar way that Thaksin sold AIS. It could have been investigated under the foreign nominee holdings act but wasn't, didn't comply with foreign dominance regs and as far as I'm aware, still doesn't.

Boonchai Bencharongkul is above Shiniwatra in the Forbes 2011 list.

Boonchai didn't change Thai law to suit his personal wealth. IF YOU HAVE proof to the contrary then please feel free to post it.

Selling a company does not preconclude not retaining assets of a percentage, in fact it is common.

It was, as we all know, Thaksin himself who changed Thai law to suit his own personal gains.

Quorum et decorum, in tablino Chalerm et Thaksin bebat!

-mel.

[bigbamboo]

Nobody seemed to take much notice when the Bencharongkul family sold DTAC to Norway (retaining 9% in a nominee holding company) in a similar way that Thaksin sold AIS. It could have been investigated under the foreign nominee holdings act but wasn't, didn't comply with foreign dominance regs and as far as I'm aware, still doesn't.

Boonchai Bencharongkul is above Shiniwatra in the Forbes 2011 list.

Boonchai Bencharongkul... hmmm... When was he PM?

So the law only applies to Prime Ministers? Try reading this in context with the post I quoted , Thai at Hearts post and you will see that this gentleman was one of those who benefit from the status quo that existed/exists after Thaksin was ousted. An example of the Amart if you wish but his family wasn't touched.

No, only Prime Ministers who call themselves CEOs and act as if the country was their company.

[DP25]

I have never seen any country amend criminal law through emergency decree

What a classic line, summing up the absurdity of the current Thai political scene. Justice beholden to majority vote. I have pointed this out many times to people not only on this forum, but to my Thai friends also and to my wife's family in the village: if I rape your daughter, but give 51% of the people free stuff so they like me, does that mean the rape of your daughter was democracy?

Rule of law is the very basis of democracy, and Thailand doesn't have it. Voting is irrelevant until it can be established. Otherwise, you get the abomination we have today, which is leading nowhere but civil war.

What a ridiculous analogy.

Glad you pointed that out, there are some problems with the analogy. Mainly that PTP did not get a majority of the popular vote. What they are doing is more like raping someone then getting a large minority to say it was ok.

[phiphidon]

Boonchai didn't change Thai law to suit his personal wealth. IF YOU HAVE proof to the contrary then please feel free to post it.

Selling a company does not preconclude not retaining assets of a percentage, in fact it is common.

It was, as we all know, Thaksin himself who changed Thai law to suit his own personal gains.

Quorum et decorum, in tablino Chalerm et Thaksin bebat!

-mel.

Read the text in context with the post I quoted or don't bother, I really don't care.

[billd766]

IMO that was Thaksin's real crime, making the poor realize they can have an impact on which corrupt elite mafia network rules over them.

Thaksin's *real crime*, the start of where all the countries current problems can be accurately pointed back to, was his sale of AIS to Temasek and his modifications of the law to ensure he obtained maximum profits. An achievement he subsequently boasted about.

It wasn't the "elite" being jealous and/or weary about his support. This is a myth perpetuated by red shirt supporters and PR groups as an attempt to legitimise his actions. Why is it a myth? Because the very people the Thaksin PR side claim were jealous/weary of his support actually voted for him during the 2005 elections, securing his final election victory before the sale of AIS was complete (and even public knowledge at the time). These elections occurred after the implementation of his "populist policies" which were supposed to have driven the very powerful "elite" people who voted for him away.

If the sale of AIS was completed before he became PM, or it was handled in a more transparent and fair manor, there would of been no PAD protests, no coup and none of the red-shirt instigated chaos we've seen over the years since.

There is a tacit understanding among the wealthy of Bangkok though that they play the business game along of the lines of keeping foreigners out. They keep the governments in line about this issue, do their business and largely pay their due taxes. By this I am talking the very large conglomerates. They pay their dues in return for protection from the big wide world market. Thaksin had an enormous problem, he had a technology company that needed a ton of new money to upgrade itself, and he didn't want to keep it. What to do? Sell to whom? CP already had a phone company, the richest in Thailand weren't interested, so sell to whom? The only option was overseas.

Now you can wonder about the details, but the financial industry was slated for some kind of reform within 10 years of the IMF deal in 1997, and it never came, but Thaksin did issue a new license to L&H bank, and after seeing what he did with AIS, I think this really put the cat among the pigeons. Just look at how CP was with him, but rapidly slinked off into the shadows. He scared the bejeesus out of them by appearing to start to dismantle the very protections that had made them all billionaires, just in the same way that the IMF deals and the reform of the telecoms opened him up to competition.

Basically he took his company as far as he wanted and flogged it, but the blue rinsed Tatler brigade of Bangkok were very much caught out by this and realised that if he kept going, the farang companies were going to be on their doorstep pretty quickly and the days of monopoly profit on ATM transfers and continually manipulating rice markets and the such were going to be long gone. So they canned him forthwith, but unfortunately, never landed the knock out punch, so expect some pretty big payback when he finally gets back in here.

Nobody seemed to take much notice when the Bencharongkul family sold DTAC to Norway (retaining 9% in a nominee holding company) in a similar way that Thaksin sold AIS. It could have been investigated under the foreign nominee holdings act but wasn't, didn't comply with foreign dominance regs and as far as I'm aware, still doesn't.

Boonchai Bencharongkul is above Shiniwatra in the Forbes 2011 list.

Did Boonchai Bencharongkul change the laws on the amount of foreign holdings just before he sold the company?

[MEL1]

Boonchai didn't change Thai law to suit his personal wealth. IF YOU HAVE proof to the contrary then please feel free to post it.

Selling a company does not preconclude not retaining assets of a percentage, in fact it is common.

It was, as we all know, Thaksin himself who changed Thai law to suit his own personal gains.

Quorum et decorum, in tablino Chalerm et Thaksin bebat!

-mel.

Read the text in context with the post I quoted or don't bother, I really don't care.

You seem to not care about reality statements you believe you make when questioned about them.

I took nothing out of context, and simply asked you a continuation question.

Why did you decline, and say I was out of context?

-mel.

[RigPig]

The system (corruption) is too endemic now and repairing it would take a revolution. The police have too much power here and you have no recourse without suffering some consequenses. They need to start with the basics first. Policemen not wearing helmets when riding their bikes, lead by example. If a policeman in our countries was blatently seen thumbing his nose at the law it would make every newspaper in the country. The Farang is always guilty. The police decide these things and innocent or not you have no recourse. If they say you caused the accident and you know you didn't if you stick to your guns you are likely to wait in the police lock up until a court case can be arranged. This could be indefinate.

How can you fix the big things when you can't fix the small things. We all know of someone who has been "wronged" by the law here. The police's job is not to make the law but to uphold it, fairly. Thais have no respect for the law whatsoever and it is no surprise.

Yeah it's great to be able to slip someone a few baht to get what you want but it is a double edged sword and you can't have your cake and eat it. I would be a lier if I said I hadn't done it. Personally I would rather see it go the other way. I like to know where I stand and not leave thing s up to chance and who paid the most first.

Unfortunately these things start at the top of the tree not the bottom. It will never happen, but until it does Thai society and the peoples rights will always be compromised.

I guess we just accept it for what it is and just "play the game" or move on. The problem with that is we also then become part of the problem.

My 2 cents worth

We often seem to post re corruption in this country as though it were only noticed/cared about by the expat contingent. There have been recent elections here on Phuket with the usual smiley posters of potential plunderers being paraded around the streets. However, one caught me eye very recently, a roadside poster of some close cropped young guy dressed in what looked like a Thai schoolboy shirt three quarter seated profile sans the ubiquitous 'smile', with the word 'CHANGE' in big caps above the Thai script.

It should be remembered that the majority of the local population are tired of this 'who has the most money' system and are perhaps are at long last attempting to do something about it, albeit announcing the idea with a copied Obama slogan, in typical Thai fashion. Yes we are are rightfully cynical, but I wish them luck. They're going to need it.

True but from my experiences with most of them they are only interested in the change when it suits their immediate needs. Justice itself is irrelevent because to them this has just become a way of life.

A friend of mine hit a Thai on a bike, he was riding a Harley (so was I and was with him at the time). The Thai turned across in front of him and stopped (decided to move from where he was off the left side of the road and turn down a side street on the right, on a main road). He was 3 up, no one had helmets and guess what..... It cost my friend 4000 Baht, more than the bike they were riding was worth! I guess he never got it all by the time it was divied up but it was obvious and despite being with our Thai girlfriends and with them protesting he was in the wrong. The alternative to this was spending time in the local lock up.

What ever happened to "Justise must not only be done it must be seen to be done"

This is the whole problem from Thaksin down to Somchai. There is no sense of justise only what can be gained.

As I said earlier, the police are there to enforce the law not make it, at least that is my sense of justise / right and wrong. This is why we have courts, judges and solicitors /lawyers.

By the way I also live in Phuket and have not noticed any change either in attitudes or fair play. I reasantly had an altercation with a Thai next to my shop and the landlord of his shop who is a close friend of the landlord of my shop couldn't stop him building a wall across the back and stopping the people I had in my rooms for rent accessing their rooms. Even though they owned the building. They were too scared to cross hi as he already had the police in his pocket. One lady was bricked in and couldn't get out and 2 others couldn't get to their belongings including their passports!

Oh well it is what it is I guess. As long as Thais shun away from confrontation it will continue. I mean students are too scared to question their teachers (loss of face) and the teachers will not fail anyone (same reason). They are shown that this is life from an early age and know no different.

I don't think anything serious is going to happen any time soon. I must admit I am used to it too now and just go with the flow.

Just as a side note I wonder what percentage of Thais that use the roads actually have drivers licenses? They will not do the right thing if it does not suit them personally. Start fixing the small things and the bigger issues will fall into place, eventually.

[Markaew]

The system (corruption) is too endemic now and repairing it would take a revolution. The police have too much power here and you have no recourse without suffering some consequenses. They need to start with the basics first. Policemen not wearing helmets when riding their bikes, lead by example. If a policeman in our countries was blatently seen thumbing his nose at the law it would make every newspaper in the country. The Farang is always guilty. The police decide these things and innocent or not you have no recourse. If they say you caused the accident and you know you didn't if you stick to your guns you are likely to wait in the police lock up until a court case can be arranged. This could be indefinate.

How can you fix the big things when you can't fix the small things. We all know of someone who has been "wronged" by the law here. The police's job is not to make the law but to uphold it, fairly. Thais have no respect for the law whatsoever and it is no surprise.

Yeah it's great to be able to slip someone a few baht to get what you want but it is a double edged sword and you can't have your cake and eat it. I would be a lier if I said I hadn't done it. Personally I would rather see it go the other way. I like to know where I stand and not leave thing s up to chance and who paid the most first.

Unfortunately these things start at the top of the tree not the bottom. It will never happen, but until it does Thai society and the peoples rights will always be compromised.

I guess we just accept it for what it is and just "play the game" or move on. The problem with that is we also then become part of the problem.

My 2 cents worth

Last time I got stopped by BIB for alledgedly speeding, even though he didn't have a radar gun but simply saw a farang driving a car, he asked me for 1,700 baht. I said to him you're having a larrfff, in Thai. He reduced his price to 800 Bhat when he knew I spoke Thai.

I asked him for the ticket, and that I'd like to duly pay it at the relevant police station to his superior.

Guess what??

Hum......

I went on my way!

-mel.

Yes and when it comes to money Thais adapt quickly. I did the same thing and the cop said he would impound my vehicle and I couldn't use it to go to the police station to pay the ticket. It was either pay on the spot or lose my vehicle.

[Markaew]

The system (corruption) is too endemic now and repairing it would take a revolution. The police have too much power here and you have no recourse without suffering some consequenses. They need to start with the basics first. Policemen not wearing helmets when riding their bikes, lead by example. If a policeman in our countries was blatently seen thumbing his nose at the law it would make every newspaper in the country. The Farang is always guilty. The police decide these things and innocent or not you have no recourse. If they say you caused the accident and you know you didn't if you stick to your guns you are likely to wait in the police lock up until a court case can be arranged. This could be indefinate.

How can you fix the big things when you can't fix the small things. We all know of someone who has been "wronged" by the law here. The police's job is not to make the law but to uphold it, fairly. Thais have no respect for the law whatsoever and it is no surprise.

Yeah it's great to be able to slip someone a few baht to get what you want but it is a double edged sword and you can't have your cake and eat it. I would be a lier if I said I hadn't done it. Personally I would rather see it go the other way. I like to know where I stand and not leave thing s up to chance and who paid the most first.

Unfortunately these things start at the top of the tree not the bottom. It will never happen, but until it does Thai society and the peoples rights will always be compromised.

I guess we just accept it for what it is and just "play the game" or move on. The problem with that is we also then become part of the problem.

My 2 cents worth

We often seem to post re corruption in this country as though it were only noticed/cared about by the expat contingent. There have been recent elections here on Phuket with the usual smiley posters of potential plunderers being paraded around the streets. However, one caught me eye very recently, a roadside poster of some close cropped young guy dressed in what looked like a Thai schoolboy shirt three quarter seated profile sans the ubiquitous 'smile', with the word 'CHANGE' in big caps above the Thai script.

It should be remembered that the majority of the local population are tired of this 'who has the most money' system and are perhaps are at long last attempting to do something about it, albeit announcing the idea with a copied Obama slogan, in typical Thai fashion. Yes we are are rightfully cynical, but I wish them luck. They're going to need it.

I hope you are correct. Previously, there has been polling that shows well above 50% of Thais accept corruption and do not want to change the status quo. I don't how old this polling is but I would like to see a new poll to see if what you are saying is true.