Should Uk Expats Pay Nic Class 2 Contributions

[GuestHouse]

The OP makes no mention of expats paying voluntary NI contributions as a means obtaining immediate access to the NHS should an expat return to the UK.

Though clearly the topic this thread branched from does address returning to the UK with insufficient income to support the overseas family of an expat.

Paying voluntary NI contributions might be a means of raising retirement income but if your only retirement income is the UK state pension and you believe you might need to return to the UK to take up residence, for health or any other reasons then accept that you'll almost certainly be travelling back without your loved ones.

Edited April 11, 2012 by GuestHouse

[7by7]

From the OP

As someone who has paid taxes all my life and now self-employed and well aware of people who leave the UK to avoid paying taxes but soon come running back when the(y) need medical care.........

That, plus the topic he linked to, indicates the meaning of this topic. Although he does say 'complusory' whereas I have been saying 'voluntary.' Also the topic title does confuse, so I have added a sub title..

As I said before, if anyone wishes to discuss paying voluntary contributions to increase their state pension, please do so in the pension topic.

Edited April 11, 2012 by 7by7

[7by7]

........ if your only retirement income is the UK state pension and you believe you might need to return to the UK to take up residence, for health or any other reasons then accept that you'll almost certainly be travelling back without your loved ones.

Why?

[TommoPhysicist]

........ if your only retirement income is the UK state pension and you believe you might need to return to the UK to take up residence, for health or any other reasons then accept that you'll almost certainly be travelling back without your loved ones.

Why?

Nothing to stop you taking your children with British passports back with you.

(So should that be 'without your loved ONE')

Edited April 11, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[GuestHouse]

........ if your only retirement income is the UK state pension and you believe you might need to return to the UK to take up residence, for health or any other reasons then accept that you'll almost certainly be travelling back without your loved ones.

Why?

Because while a British Citizen has the inalienable right to return to the UK, s/he must demonstrate that s/he has enough funds to support any dependents s/he wishes to bring with him/her.

If you only have a state pension (or not much above a state pension) you will not be able to demonstrate that your family will not have to resort to public funds. And on that point not get a visa.

[7by7]

Even with just the basic state pension, it is entirely possible that the current maintenance and accommodation requirements can be met.

If (when) the proposed minimum income level is introduced, then you may have a point.

However, we are, again, wandering off topic; which is should expats pay a contribution, compulsory or voluntarily, to the UK government so that they can return to the UK for NHS treatment as and when they wish?

Please keep further posts to that topic.

[HeavyDrinker]

which is should expats pay a contribution, compulsory or voluntarily, to the UK government so that they can return to the UK for NHS treatment as and when they wish?

Why should we when most of Europe can waltz in and get it all for free, having paid nothing?

[GuestHouse]

However, we are, again, wandering off topic; which is should expats pay a contribution, compulsory or voluntarily, to the UK government so that they can return to the UK for NHS treatment as and when they wish?

Please keep further posts to that topic.

As someone who has paid taxes all my life and now self-employed and well aware of people who leave the UK to avoid paying taxes but soon come running back when the need medical care I for one would be happy for the UK government to introduce compulsory NIC class 2 (£2.65PW/£137.80PA) to all UK passport holders who pay no other form of NIC regardless where they are in the world and refuse to renew passports until holders are up to date with payments.

I've quoted the Opening Post above - Can someone point out where it is asking if UK expats should pay Voluntary Contributions to maintain access to the NHS?

I don't see that at all. I see a point about people leaving the UK to avoid paying taxes but returning for NHS treatment and a statement that the OP would be happy to introduce compulsory NI Contributions, with a suggestion that Passports renewals should be withheld from those not paying.

[GuestHouse]

Even with just the basic state pension, it is entirely possible that the current maintenance and accommodation requirements can be met.

I doubt that is the case - The requirement is not to draw on public funds. A basic UK pension will not keep a family above the welfare threshold and therefore will automatically cause a call on public funds.

[7by7]

which is should expats pay a contribution, compulsory or voluntarily, to the UK government so that they can return to the UK for NHS treatment as and when they wish?

Why should we when most of Europe can waltz in and get it all for free, having paid nothing?

Totally wrong.

Unless they have Permanent Residence, and they need to have lived in the UK for at least 5 years to get that, EEA citizens living in the UK can only claim contribution based benefits; that is benefits they have paid NIC for.

They can, as can all UK residents, receive NHS treatment.

[7by7]

Guesthose, yes, the OP says compulsory contributions, but if you actually read the entire topic you would see that I added the alternative of making voluntary contributions.

As for a pensioner being unable to support any family without recourse to public funds; the British pensioner can claim any and all public funds to which s/he may be entitled, but cannot claim any extra due to his/her foreign partner living with him/her. So if they have children still studying, the British partner can claim any extra needed and entitled to. If any children are working then they wouldn't be able to claim anything for them anyway, nor need to.

At the moment there is no hard and fast minimum income required; but there may be. See this topic. But this topic is not about that, so if you have any further comments to make on family migration to the UK and the income levels required, please make them there, not here.

[GuestHouse]

We'll leve that for another thread then.

wrt Entitlement to NHS treatment the rules have nothing to do wit NI contributions, they are simply that treatment shall be given free st the point of need - So if you are in the UK and you need treatment you will get it.

You may be charged later for that treatment if you do not meet the second rule which is that you are either normally resident in the UK or are returning to the UK to take up permanant residence.

In that respect, paying voluntary contributions (and declaring your right to do so on the basis of being an expat) might not help your case - Ditto writing to the tax office and declaring yourself non domiciled.

Whatever, voluntary NI contributions from overseas have no possitive impact on your rights to free treatment under the NHS.

Edited April 11, 2012 by GuestHouse

[7by7]

Indeed, one's entitlement to free NHS treatment is based upon residency, not NI contributions. But as I said earlier

What Basil is suggesting is implementing some way of expats making regular contributions so that should they return to the UK they would immediately be entitled to free NHS treatment. Currently they can only receive such treatment if they can show that they have returned to resume UK residence.

I later suggested these contributions be voluntary, not compulsory as suggested by Basil.

Do you have any thoughts on those points?

BTW, to those who have queried what this has to do with Thailand, we are, of course, talking about entitlements for expats, though, I grant you, not specifically those living in Thailand.

[GuestHouse]

Some form of voluntary contribution to enable an expat to maintain NHS entitlement is perhaps not a bad idea, given that many will return to the UK anyway, but would require a change in the law.

I myself have been medivacted to the UK (the full blown, doctor, nurse, stretcher with me back on the aircraft, intensive care in Thailand to intensive care in the UK). But I am normally resident in the UK and take great care to ensure that my contract of employment states that I have been assigned overseas by my employer on their business and that the terms and conditions of my UK employment contract require me to work overseas as part of my employer's normal business - This then enacts the treaty of Rome which requires EU states to allow freedom of movement of employment, both between the states and within each state itself. (Denying UK employees who move in and out of the UK as part of their employment access to the NHS would be to restrict their freedom of employment).

This is why I also caution against people writing to the tax office and declaring themselves non domiciled, moving accounts and pensions offshore and selling up property in the UK.

My posts elsewhere on TV cautioning people about burning bridges, making sure retirement savings continue and that they are not taken early and spent early are not some guy who lacks a sense of adventure being grumpy about others enjoying themselves - Rather I've personally been in that life threatening position where I had to be medivacted and I know exactly how helpless and reliant on insurance and the NHS we are when that time comes.

I've mentioned in the past that after my own experience of being hospitalised here I spent some time volunteering as a visitor to foreigners in hospital (in Sriracha), that was a real eyeopener - There are real tragedies happening on a daily basis almost always because of a lack of insurance or cash.

Right now as things stand the only access to the NHS an expat can obtain is if s/he maintains a strong contact, essentially a house they can go back to and funds to keep themselves and their family in the UK.

The alternatives are, have sufficient funds and insurance to not need to call on the NHS or live on a wing and a prayer.

If that sounds negative then I apologise, it is not meant to be, it is meant to be a reality that I'm afraid too many deny to themselves and object to being told to others.

Edited April 11, 2012 by GuestHouse

[chiang mai]

A very sensible approach GH, I endorse it.