Red Shirts Mark 2nd Anniversary Of Khok Wua Clashes: Bangkok

[webfact]

Red Shirts mark 2nd anniversary of Khok Wua clashes

BANGKOK, April 11 - The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), Thailand’s so-called Red Shirt movement, on Wednesday assembled near the Democracy Monument on Rajdamnoen Avenue to mark the 2nd anniversary of their deadly protests against the then Abhisit Vejjajiva administration.

UDD leader Thida Thavornseth, together with other protest leaders Natthawut Saikua, Jatuporn Prompan, Korkaew Pikulthong and Weng Tojirakarn, held a religious ceremony for Red Shirt protesters who died during the political demonstrations on April 10, 2010.

The families of the victims and UDD members also attended the ceremony, which took place outside Satreewitthaya School, near the Democracy Monument.

Ms Thida said the activity was to commemorate the Red Shirt protest at the Democracy Monument and Khok Wua intersection on Rachadamnoen Avenue two years ago which claimed a number of lives.

The UDD chair said the current government has made progress in investigating the clashes which took place two years ago. She also urged the government to ratify the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), saying the UDD is prepared to ask it to investigate the crackdown on the protesters.

Ms Thida added she wanted the fair investigation process for all parties, regardless of whether they are members of the public or state officials.

On Tuesday, Korn Chatikavanich, deputy leader of the Democrat Party and some party members, gathered at Democracy Monument to lay a wreath marking the 2nd anniversary of the Khok Wua incident.

Mr Korn said he hoped that truth would prevail and those who committed the wrongdoings would be brought to justice.

The Democrat party leader stated that he would do everything possible to prevent any repetition of the incident.

The 2010 Red Shirt protests started peacefully in mid-March demanding that then prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva of the Democrat-led coalition government resign and call for a general election. The protest turned ugly with sporadic grenade attacks and shooting incidents.

The Khok Wua incident was one of several major clashes in which 25 people were killed and more than 800 were wounded when the security forces tried to disperse the anti-government supporters from their protest site at Phan Fa bridge on Ratchadamnoen Avenue.

Among the dead were Col Romklao Thuwatham, deputy chief of staff of the 2nd Infantry Division, and Japanese cameraman Hiroyuki Muramoto who worked for Reuters news agency.

State officials however said the protest turned violent because of a group of unknown black-clad men who fired on soldiers and protesters.

The Red Shirt protest ended on May 19 as a government military operation forced them to end their protest at Ratchaprasong intersection.

More than 90 people, mainly civilians, were killed in the ten-week long street clashes.

Riots in the protest areas were followed by arson which destroyed or damaged more than 30 buildings, including the high-end shopping mall CentralWorld. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-04-11

[CalgaryII]

"State officials however said the protest turned violent because of a group of unknown black-clad men who fired on soldiers and protesters.

The Red Shirt protest ended on May 19 as a government military operation forced them to end their protest at Ratchaprasong intersection".

"Deja vu" all over again...... These summary statements of fact purporting to give historical context to current events, seldom reflect the realities..... In the case above, it wasn't a feeble fightback by protesters that turned things violent. It was the launch of armed coup supporters advancing toward a political demonstration at the Democracy Monument which started the fightback by protesters. What else did the coupists expect. Why were armed forces dispatched in the first place, instead of Politicians, to resolve an easily resolvable political matter. .......The pro-coupists were prevented from reaching the anti-coup demonstrators. As long as it is clear who was advancing on whom, to make clear what started violence. Pro-coup forces attacking a justifiable political demonstration started violence, not those defending themselves and their legitimate protest, as validated in last year's election. .....Also what is called a "Government military operation" above, were in fact defenders of the coup. Dispatched by people who could not countenance opposition to it. Red Shirt protesters were anti-coup protesters calling for an election to restore governing validity. Something they belatedly achieved in last years election. Failing to reference that, is revising an historical context.

Edited April 11, 2012 by CalgaryII

[siampolee]

What about the farang character who threw stones etc at those other farangs who dared to criticize the Red Shirts.

Will you remember that person Calgaryll

[WhizBang]

Give it a rest CalgaryII

[steveromagnino]

The most important thing is that we give amnesty to all those involved, in which case why on earth do we want to hold any sorts of investigation or to commemorate; our whole aim in a Thai democracy run by Peua Thai is to attempt to provide amnesty for every single action ever taken by anyone since the coup. So I think Korn's wish "Mr Korn said he hoped that truth would prevail and those who committed the wrongdoings would be brought to justice." is a very misguided one.

We are much better off if we pretend the whole thing never happened.

After all, why on earth would any protestors start occupying airports or government buildings, taking people hostage, physically assaulting others, extorting money from people to wanting to go home who live in the area, occupying large inner city areas without legal right....when they know that amnesty is just around the corner.

[WackySomchai]

Give it a rest CalgaryII

You guys still don't get it? He is the troll of this forum and should be ignored.

[bigbamboo]

Why do Calgaryll's comments always seem to take the form of official statements?

Just wondering.

[waza]

Hmmm pity the reality of the eye witness reports and videos dont support your lies Mr discredible.......

[hyperdimension]

Pro-coup forces attacking a justifiable political demonstration started violence, not those defending themselves and their legitimate protest, as validated in last year's election.

There you go again, using election results in an attempt to nullify any and all wrongdoings of the Red Shirts.

Red Shirt protesters were anti-coup protesters calling for an election to restore governing validity. Something they belatedly achieved in last years election. Failing to reference that, is revising an historical context.

There were elections scheduled for the end of the then Democrat-led government's term. This was cut even shorter during the 2010 protests to satisfy the demands of the Red Shirt leaders. If they waited for either of these they could eventually have got Pheu Thai back into power and no lives would have been lost. why couldn't they wait for such an insignificant amount of time in the bigger scheme of things?

Edited April 11, 2012 by hyperdimension

[phiphidon]

Hmmm pity the reality of the eye witness reports and videos dont support your lies Mr discredible.......

Tell me Waza in your words what was happening in the second video.

[Mosha]

Give it a rest CalgaryII

You guys still don't get it? He is the troll of this forum and should be ignored.

I have, but people keep quoting the wordor

[heiwa]

The victorious Reds brought about the 300 baht wage for the downtrodden peasants. This came about with blood. A better life rarely arrives without violence as history has shown. Better working conditions are rarely served on a platter by the rich especially in a Kow Tow society. They should make this day of blood a national holiday. So many times the Reds were denied their votes by coups. The Yellows were the real trouble makers. Isn't that obvious to everyone? Hijacking an airport and supporting coups. The Yellow shirts should have moved to Burma years ago if they like military dictatorships. I do not see a need for reconciliation. The Yellow was clearly in the wrong. Democracy is the vehicle to fight the Kow Tow society. That's what upset the Yellow elite so much. As Marx said power to the people. You must also remember corruption and mis-governance is tolerated in Thailand - well it's expected. Surveys of the Thai population have shown this. So there's no need to point the finger at Taksin. Some of the most corrupt emperors in Roman times were the best. Don't follow the herd. And they brought down the price of gasoline/petrol if only momentarily - this is kind of a half promise I guess. Sneaky buggers! Politicians - they will win no popularity contests. Taksin's biggest failure as admitted by him was the Deep South.

Edited April 11, 2012 by heiwa

[gamini]

"State officials however said the protest turned violent because of a group of unknown black-clad men who fired on soldiers and protesters.

The Red Shirt protest ended on May 19 as a government military operation forced them to end their protest at Ratchaprasong intersection".

"Deja vu" all over again...... These summary statements of fact purporting to give historical context to current events, seldom reflect the realities..... In the case above, it wasn't a feeble fightback by protesters that turned things violent. It was the launch of armed coup supporters advancing toward a political demonstration at the Democracy Monument which started the fightback by protesters. What else did the coupists expect. Why were armed forces dispatched in the first place, instead of Politicians, to resolve an easily resolvable political matter. .......The pro-coupists were prevented from reaching the anti-coup demonstrators. As long as it is clear who was advancing on whom, to make clear what started violence. Pro-coup forces attacking a justifiable political demonstration started violence, not those defending themselves and their legitimate protest, as validated in last year's election. .....Also what is called a "Government military operation" above, were in fact defenders of the coup. Dispatched by people who could not countenance opposition to it. Red Shirt protesters were anti-coup protesters calling for an election to restore governing validity. Something they belatedly achieved in last years election. Failing to reference that, is revising an historical context.

I have never read such one sided nonsense. Do you live in Thailand?

[OJAS]

The victorious Reds brought about the 300 baht wage for the downtrodden peasants. This came about with blood. A better life rarely arrives without violence as history has shown. Better working conditions are rarely served on a platter by the rich especially in a Kow Tow society. They should make this day of blood a national holiday. So many times the Reds were denied their votes by coups. The Yellows were the real trouble makers. Isn't that obvious to everyone? Hijacking an airport and supporting coups. The Yellow shirts should have moved to Burma years ago if they like military dictatorships. I do not see a need for reconciliation. The Yellow was clearly in the wrong. Democracy is the vehicle to fight the Kow Tow society. That's what upset the Yellow elite so much. As Marx said power to the people. You must also remember corruption and mis-governance is tolerated in Thailand - well it's expected. Surveys of the Thai population have shown this. So there's no need to point the finger at Taksin. Some of the most corrupt emperors in Roman times were the best. Don't follow the herd. And they brought down the price of gasoline/petrol if only momentarily - this is kind of a half promise I guess. Sneaky buggers! Politicians - they will win no popularity contests. Taksin's biggest failure as admitted by him was the Deep South.

Do you live in Thailand, heiwa? If so, you along with your fellow Red shirt thugs should have moved to North Korea years ago IMHO. Democracy as you seem to know and love it is certainly alive and kicking there (its official misnomer of a title is, of course, the Democratic People`s Republic of Korea).

And Thaksin`s biggest failure to Mancunian football fans of a sky-blue persuasion at least was, of course, owning Manchester City......

[hyperdimension]

The victorious Reds brought about the 300 baht wage for the downtrodden peasants.

That was an election pledge by Thaksin's Pheu Thai party, not a demand from the Red Shirt movement, so they themselves did not bring about the increase in the minimum wage.

There is also plenty of debate about the pros and cons of this minimum wage increase in other discussion threads, with one negative effect being higher labor expenses which can lead to unemployment and inflation, both of which negate the positive effects of the increase.

[hyperdimension]

Also, it's not Yellow vs. Red anymore.

Edited April 11, 2012 by hyperdimension

[bigbamboo]

The victorious Reds brought about the 300 baht wage for the downtrodden peasants. This came about with blood. A better life rarely arrives without violence as history has shown. Better working conditions are rarely served on a platter by the rich especially in a Kow Tow society. They should make this day of blood a national holiday. So many times the Reds were denied their votes by coups. The Yellows were the real trouble makers. Isn't that obvious to everyone? Hijacking an airport and supporting coups. The Yellow shirts should have moved to Burma years ago if they like military dictatorships. I do not see a need for reconciliation. The Yellow was clearly in the wrong. Democracy is the vehicle to fight the Kow Tow society. That's what upset the Yellow elite so much. As Marx said power to the people. You must also remember corruption and mis-governance is tolerated in Thailand - well it's expected. Surveys of the Thai population have shown this. So there's no need to point the finger at Taksin. Some of the most corrupt emperors in Roman times were the best. Don't follow the herd. And they brought down the price of gasoline/petrol if only momentarily - this is kind of a half promise I guess. Sneaky buggers! Politicians - they will win no popularity contests. Taksin's biggest failure as admitted by him was the Deep South.

What a pretty picture you paint of the Land of Smiles, Heiwa. I wonder why you're here at all.

[heiwa]

The victorious Reds brought about the 300 baht wage for the downtrodden peasants. This came about with blood. A better life rarely arrives without violence as history has shown. Better working conditions are rarely served on a platter by the rich especially in a Kow Tow society. They should make this day of blood a national holiday. So many times the Reds were denied their votes by coups. The Yellows were the real trouble makers. Isn't that obvious to everyone? Hijacking an airport and supporting coups. The Yellow shirts should have moved to Burma years ago if they like military dictatorships. I do not see a need for reconciliation. The Yellow was clearly in the wrong. Democracy is the vehicle to fight the Kow Tow society. That's what upset the Yellow elite so much. As Marx said power to the people. You must also remember corruption and mis-governance is tolerated in Thailand - well it's expected. Surveys of the Thai population have shown this. So there's no need to point the finger at Taksin. Some of the most corrupt emperors in Roman times were the best. Don't follow the herd. And they brought down the price of gasoline/petrol if only momentarily - this is kind of a half promise I guess. Sneaky buggers! Politicians - they will win no popularity contests. Taksin's biggest failure as admitted by him was the Deep South.

Do you live in Thailand, heiwa? If so, you along with your fellow Red shirt thugs should have moved to North Korea years ago IMHO. Democracy as you seem to know and love it is certainly alive and kicking there (its official misnomer of a title is, of course, the Democratic People`s Republic of Korea).

And Thaksin`s biggest failure to Mancunian football fans of a sky-blue persuasion at least was, of course, owning Manchester City......

In reply to all posts. Come on! What planet are you on misters? Again and again the majority North East and North majority of Thailand were granted election victories through democracy only for these votes to mean nothing due to coups supported by the Yellow Brigade dictatorship supporters. The only way to get these voting rights enforced was to protest. And in doing this they were attacked by the army. The army perpetrated the violence, not the reds, the army were the thugs for the elite yellow brigade. Tell it like it is. It astounds me how Westerners have lost the capacity to think. There is no need to be deluded. In many countries in the world the army is paid to kill the poor by the rich (think of Chile) when the peasants demand better standards of living through the electoral systems. This is what is known as dictatorship - Mussolini, Hitler and the Yellow Brigade. The Yellows resorted to a style of totaltarian dictatorship by supporting the loss of the majority's voting rights and by supporting murderous coups. Could it be that some foreigners are being paid to write on behalf of the Yelllow brigade fascist dictatorship? Or is it just that Westerners politically correct bubble they live in no longer allows the brain to say things how they really are anymore - one must say what is palatable and nice rather than face the truth. Reconciliation? What a joke. The Yellows clearly perverted the course of voting rights through support of murderous coups for their preferred form of government - facist dictatorship. Well done heroic lion heart Reds for standing up to the Kow Tow elite, showing that your birth was equal to all, like the French did in the French revolution. Thailand is the greatest because Thai people have heart. Thailand sees injustice and does something about. They protest AND ARE ALLOWED TO PROTEST because they stood up to the army and did not move. They have the heart of lions whereas in the West we no longer have the right to protest injustices - we have chosen to live in dictatorship - to accept anything the elite finance bankers get up to - we are even giving them big bonuses again. The people of Western democracies when their morally bankrupt leaders crush them through bank collapses - the indifference of the people in Western nations is astounding. The great Red victory could never happen in Cambodia, Laos or Burma or the allegedly civilised West. Edited April 12, 2012 by heiwa

[sparebox2]

Also, it's not Yellow vs. Red anymore.

It is Thaksin vs the other great man.

[waza]

Well phiphidon in the second video I dont see what Cagaryll stated............" In the case above, it wasn't a feeble fightback by protesters that turned things violent. It was the launch of armed coup supporters advancing toward a political demonstration at the Democracy Monument which started the fightback by protesters. What else did the coupists expect. Why were armed forces dispatched in the first place, instead of Politicians, to resolve an easily resolvable political matter. .......The pro-coupists were prevented from reaching the anti-coup demonstrators. As long as it is clear who was advancing on whom, to make clear what started violence........... Posted Yesterday, 16:03 Cagaryll

But I did see redshirt protestors advancing towards the militaries stationary lines. The redshirts then try to provoke the military by throwing missles and taunting them. As Cagaryll stated it is clear who was advacing on whom and clear who started the violence. The video then ends with the granade attack on the military. Why what do you see?

Edited April 12, 2012 by waza

[hyperdimension]

The great Red victory could never happen in Cambodia

Yet Thaksin is Hun Sen's "eternal" friend.

From To live and die with Hun Sen By Paul Vrieze:

"Hun Sen has had only two ways in dealing with his political opponents: Buy them or eliminate them either physically, [through] grenade attack, military coup [...] or politically, [through] sham lawsuits ... There is no example in the whole world of any country being a democratic and prosperous one with the same top leader for decades," Rainsy added.

"Hun Sen's greatest failure is his failure to promote, in fact, his willingness to undermine democratic institutions such as an independent judiciary, accountable security forces and a professional civil service," he added. According to Gottesman, three qualities are central to Hun Sen's hold on power: The first is ideological flexibility, which he said became apparent when Hun Sen decided to quickly abandon communist orthodox ideas in the late 1980s when it suited the situation.

"The second is a willingness to be absolutely ruthless with his opponents when he feels it necessary. The third is his cultivation of a patronage system that supports him," Gottesman wrote. "[A] lack of an independent judiciary or accountability for human-rights abuses persist because these hallmarks of modern democracies do not serve the interests of leaders who intend to remain in power indefinitely," he added. Reflecting on how the character of the 1980s communist PRK regime, many of whose officials are still in the government, influences Cambodia today, Gottesman said, "Cambodia's government is still built on patronage systems that support top officials, with Hun Sen at the top."

[moe666]

The victorious Reds brought about the 300 baht wage for the downtrodden peasants. This came about with blood. A better life rarely arrives without violence as history has shown. Better working conditions are rarely served on a platter by the rich especially in a Kow Tow society. They should make this day of blood a national holiday. So many times the Reds were denied their votes by coups. The Yellows were the real trouble makers. Isn't that obvious to everyone? Hijacking an airport and supporting coups. The Yellow shirts should have moved to Burma years ago if they like military dictatorships. I do not see a need for reconciliation. The Yellow was clearly in the wrong. Democracy is the vehicle to fight the Kow Tow society. That's what upset the Yellow elite so much. As Marx said power to the people. You must also remember corruption and mis-governance is tolerated in Thailand - well it's expected. Surveys of the Thai population have shown this. So there's no need to point the finger at Taksin. Some of the most corrupt emperors in Roman times were the best. Don't follow the herd. And they brought down the price of gasoline/petrol if only momentarily - this is kind of a half promise I guess. Sneaky buggers! Politicians - they will win no popularity contests. Taksin's biggest failure as admitted by him was the Deep South.

Do you live in Thailand, heiwa? If so, you along with your fellow Red shirt thugs should have moved to North Korea years ago IMHO. Democracy as you seem to know and love it is certainly alive and kicking there (its official misnomer of a title is, of course, the Democratic People`s Republic of Korea).

And Thaksin`s biggest failure to Mancunian football fans of a sky-blue persuasion at least was, of course, owning Manchester City......

In reply to all posts. Come on! What planet are you on misters? Again and again the majority North East and North majority of Thailand were granted election victories through democracy only for these votes to mean nothing due to coups supported by the Yellow Brigade dictatorship supporters. The only way to get these voting rights enforced was to protest. And in doing this they were attacked by the army. The army perpetrated the violence, not the reds, the army were the thugs for the elite yellow brigade. Tell it like it is. It astounds me how Westerners have lost the capacity to think. There is no need to be deluded. In many countries in the world the army is paid to kill the poor by the rich (think of Chile) when the peasants demand better standards of living through the electoral systems. This is what is known as dictatorship - Mussolini, Hitler and the Yellow Brigade. The Yellows resorted to a style of totaltarian dictatorship by supporting the loss of the majority's voting rights and by supporting murderous coups. Could it be that some foreigners are being paid to write on behalf of the Yelllow brigade fascist dictatorship? Or is it just that Westerners politically correct bubble they live in no longer allows the brain to say things how they really are anymore - one must say what is palatable and nice rather than face the truth. Reconciliation? What a joke. The Yellows clearly perverted the course of voting rights through support of murderous coups for their preferred form of government - facist dictatorship. Well done heroic lion heart Reds for standing up to the Kow Tow elite, showing that your birth was equal to all, like the French did in the French revolution. Thailand is the greatest because Thai people have heart. Thailand sees injustice and does something about. They protest AND ARE ALLOWED TO PROTEST because they stood up to the army and did not move. They have the heart of lions whereas in the West we no longer have the right to protest injustices - we have chosen to live in dictatorship - to accept anything the elite finance bankers get up to - we are even giving them big bonuses again. The people of Western democracies when their morally bankrupt leaders crush them through bank collapses - the indifference of the people in Western nations is astounding. The great Red victory could never happen in Cambodia, Laos or Burma or the allegedly civilised West.

I need to throw up again

[pimay11]

Give it a rest CalgaryII

You guys still don't get it? He is the troll of this forum and should be ignored.

Absolutely correct. Just ignore him and maybe he will go away. Though I doubt it.

[phiphidon]

Well phiphidon in the second video I dont see what Cagaryll stated............" In the case above, it wasn't a feeble fightback by protesters that turned things violent. It was the launch of armed coup supporters advancing toward a political demonstration at the Democracy Monument which started the fightback by protesters. What else did the coupists expect. Why were armed forces dispatched in the first place, instead of Politicians, to resolve an easily resolvable political matter. .......The pro-coupists were prevented from reaching the anti-coup demonstrators. As long as it is clear who was advancing on whom, to make clear what started violence........... Posted Yesterday, 16:03 Cagaryll

But I did see redshirt protestors advancing towards the militaries stationary lines. The redshirts then try to provoke the military by throwing missles and taunting them. As Cagaryll stated it is clear who was advacing on whom and clear who started the violence. The video then ends with the granade attack on the military. Why what do you see?

I see a lot of dancing by the red shirts who do not move from their position.The first shots from the army occurs at 2'34". The reds then respond by throwing water bottles and sticks (from flags and posters) at the armed troops. They still do not move from their position. At 3'41" or so the cameraman retreats a bit (and so would I!) but the majority of the red shirts are still there , throwing water bottles, but certainly not advancing on the army, for good reason. The shooting from the army, at most times very intensive, continues until the end of the video at 6'07". That may or may not have been an explosive device at the end of the video, certainly lots of smoke but the guns are still going off so difficult to hear if it was.

I totally dispute you saw I "redshirt protestors advancing towards the militaries stationary lines" When? Please point out the timeline.

I have also seen the bullet holes at or below head height towards the demonstrators at the Dinso site (Democracy Monument) as described and photographed by Nick Nostitz

http://asiapacific.a...-and-definance/

And before you leap to attack NN he also describes bullet holes in both directions at the Khok Wua intersection.

Note - I was not there at the time and am basing the above information I have posted based on the 2nd video provided.

Edited April 12, 2012 by phiphidon

[OzMick]

Give it a rest CalgaryII

You guys still don't get it? He is the troll of this forum and should be ignored.

Absolutely correct. Just ignore him and maybe he will go away. Though I doubt it.

A bit like herpes in that respect.

[waza]

Maybe this one is clearer...........Its interesting to note that the military facing the redshirts are not armed with firearms only shields and battons, the armed military are behind them. This begs the question how does the bullet shells magically fly over the unarmed military into the midsts of the protestors for them to pick up and display. I guess the logical explanation is these bullet shell are from firearm used by the protestors themselves. The reality is if the troops opened fire on the protestor the body count would have been massive

view part 2 at your own discression

[Gers1873]

The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), Thailand’s so-called Red Shirt.....

If these people are 'Against Dictatorship' then why are they actively seeking the return of their own Great Dicktator - their Great Leader or are they only against certain dictators???

I find these red shirt thugs really boring and thaksin is still as bent as a nine bob note

[hyperdimension]

The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), Thailand’s so-called Red Shirt.....

If these people are 'Against Dictatorship' then why are they actively seeking the return of their own Great Dicktator - their Great Leader or are they only against certain dictators???

Their name is a misnomer, like how North Korea's official name, "Democratic People's Republic of Korea", is a misnomer.

First and foremost, they are pro-Thaksin. Whether they are pro-democracy at any moment in time depends on whether it is in Thaksin's own interests. The interests of the country and its people are secondary (or tertiary, if you consider Thaksin's cronies' interests as secondary).

Hun Sen would not be allowing thousands of real pro-democracy activists to enter his country, as they'd be a threat to him and his government. But Thaksin, Hun Sen's eternal friend, has probably explained to him that they aren't really pro-democracy activists, they are just his useful idiots.

Edited April 12, 2012 by hyperdimension

[phiphidon]

Maybe this one is clearer...........Its interesting to note that the military facing the redshirts are not armed with firearms only shields and battons, the armed military are behind them. This begs the question how does the bullet shells magically fly over the unarmed military into the midsts of the protestors for them to pick up and display. I guess the logical explanation is these bullet shell are from firearm used by the protestors themselves. The reality is if the troops opened fire on the protestor the body count would have been massive

view part 2 at your own discression

No, the original video was clearer as the important part of it showing timeline between the army firing and the red shirts responding with water bottles etc was one continuous shot, the whole video having only a small amount of editing, if any at all.

This one is heavily edited as can be seen by scenes cutting between the cs gas smoke which is there, then it isn't, then it is again, not to mention the soundtrack and abrupt scene changes.

That is important as where the reds are shown pushing against the army, the floor is littered with bits of stick and waterbottles, i.e after the shooting has stopped (from the original video), and the troops are withdrawing. Remember they abandoned APCs and other equipment - see my mandela link.

You still haven't proved in any shape or form that the red shirts advanced towards the army and provoked them into shooting by throwing water bottles and sticks, let alone firing at the soldiers, quite the opposite in fact.

[soundman]

Troll post and replies making wild assumptions as to cause and effect of the April 10 clashes removed from view.

Member responsible - be warned your opinions and one sided insight in to red politics is causing a lot of [understandable] frustration among other board members and as such many of your posts are being considered trollish in nature.

This is against Thai Visa forum rules, and if you continue, you may well find your posting privileges revoked.

Thai Visa encourages lively debate and discussion, however it is not a platform for individuals who have agendas, or wish to rant to rile up other board members.

Please try to tone it down a little, and respect other member's rights to their own opinions.

Edited April 12, 2012 by soundman
Date.