Bangkok April 10, 2010: All Culprits Must Be Made Accountable

[MaiChai]

'Nevertheless, I think the prime responsibility lies with Abhisit, as any democratic government should first resort to the use of riot police, tear gas, water cannon and batons until it's completely self-evident that police alone cannot handle the crowd.'

I think it was self evident Mr Pravit Rojanaphruk that the police in the whole protest period were wholly ineffective, hence the need for the military to restore law and order. Had the police acted with professionalism from the outset rather than play there own political game, maybe this whole sorry tale would have ended a different way. I'm not banging the drum for any colour here.

Unfortunately Thai police are not like the police we foreigners are used to. They are more like a private money making/extortionist mafia. The police you see directing the traffic are also not police, but part time police with no authority to arrest/fine you. Also the police were highly absent when the floods occurred last year in Bangkok; again the Army had to be brought in to effectively do the job the police are supposed to do. There is no money to be made helping flood victims! So you can see why the Army had to be brought in to deal with the demonstrations.

[heiwa]

Isn't this going to be a never ending pantomine as long as the situation is like this - does anyone really think there are no more culprits? Or people can ever stop from being culprits. If you think suddenly they all became angels think again>

As long as Thai politicians/government employees (hospital drug dealers) bank accounts and those of their friends and family and associates can not be monitored and judges can be bought Thailand will always be held to ransom for by Thaksin and any elite - whether that be the Red or Yellow elite. Just a difference in colour - not rank - and the rank of privilege$$$. Thai rak Thai - myth. Every pig first to the troth gets the lions share of the pizza. That's the culture around here. They could also start banning those secret meetings (or not so secret) in hotels with billionaire businessmen. This red revolution, although I feel the supporters hearts were in the right place, as we all probably know is a lost cause. It's a case of who-ever is new will be the taking financial advantage over the massess - red or yellow - it don't make any difference. Unless they go green... They are all the same! But the red is a little better with 300 baht salary coming soon.

Edited April 12, 2012 by heiwa

[khunkeith]

Isn't this going to be a never ending pantomine as long as the situation is like this - does anyone really think there are no more culprits? Or people can ever stop from being culprits. If you think suddenly they all became angels think again>

As long as Thai politicians/government employees (hospital drug dealers) bank accounts and those of their friends and family and associates can not be monitored and judges can be bought Thailand will always be held to ransom for by Thaksin and any elite - whether that be the Red or Yellow elite. Just a difference in colour - not rank - and the rank of privilege$$$. Thai rak Thai - myth. Every pig first to the troth gets the lions share of the pizza. That's the culture around here. They could also start banning those secret meetings (or not so secret) in hotels with billionaire businessmen. This red revolution, although I feel the supporters hearts were in the right place, as we all probably know is a lost cause. It's a case of who-ever is new will be the taking financial advantage over the massess - red or yellow - it don't make any difference. Unless they go green... They are all the same! But the red is a little better with 300 baht salary coming soon.

I noticed you left out the part that many of the red shirts were demonstrating because they were getting paid to do so.

[Crushdepth]

"Besides, both sides seem unable to look beyond their self-righteous perspectives, and are unable or unwilling to forgive"

The above is very true.

However, over 90 deaths on one side are not to be relegated to a statistic and is accordingly extremely self-righteous, comparatively speaking. There was no equality in both tragical consequences, nor political intention. Diminishment to equal status of the two sides is often attempted by coupist apologists, both by throwing up 'political smoke', or trying to move the focus, amplifying and embellishing the limited fightback the protesters were able to generate, regardless of the color of clothing used by those spearheading this fightback. The overwhelming trained and armed firepower the coupists brought to the political confrontation cannot be diminished or justified by demonizing the meager and paltry resistance. The context is also often obscured. It was anti-coup resistance to coupists, and not a State exercise of maintaining public order. It was a political thing and not a law enforcement issue, as the coupists self-righteously try to spin it. Last year's election clearly showed who was repudiated and who was validated.

Were the M79 grenade attacks against skytrain commuters also part of your 'anti-coup resistance'? About 100 people injured with several fatalities. Heroic stuff.

A blind man could see that the men in black were provocateurs trying to escalate the conflict. Initial attempts to clear the protesters were made with riot gear. It was the use of weapons including grenades by MIB against these troops that forced the government to arm them, which is exactly what the MIB and their paymaster wanted.Bodies were inevitable from there and that was the whole point of the exercise: Blood to destabilise the democratically elected government. There's your context.

Go ahead and invent self righteous excuses for murder. Your blind devotion to a rabid ideology and criminal politicians hell bent on screwing the country to satisfy their own egos makes me sick.

[whybother]

However, over 90 deaths on one side are not to be relegated to a statistic and is accordingly extremely self-righteous, comparatively speaking.

Please don't post false information - over 90 deaths was not had on one side.

That is the commonly accepted figure, although the UDD/RS claim there were more. They have video and commentary discussing how Red Shirt bodies were furtively removed very quickly and not recorded as killed......... If not 90 in your opinion Tawp, feel free to correct the matter.............Perhaps a ratio of one side compared to the other, would more aptly demonstrate comparative armed capabilities.................. Bottom line, to have one killed was too many, considering the legitimate and electorally proven validity of the protesters. Beyond that, such a numbers game is absurd.

There were the 165 bodies in Rayong. The red shirts claimed that they were missing red shirts buried by the army.

[OzMick]

However, over 90 deaths on one side are not to be relegated to a statistic and is accordingly extremely self-righteous, comparatively speaking.

Please don't post false information - over 90 deaths was not had on one side.

That is the commonly accepted figure, although the UDD/RS claim there were more. They have video and commentary discussing how Red Shirt bodies were furtively removed very quickly and not recorded as killed......... If not 90 in your opinion Tawp, feel free to correct the matter.............Perhaps a ratio of one side compared to the other, would more aptly demonstrate comparative armed capabilities.................. Bottom line, to have one killed was too many, considering the legitimate and electorally proven validity of the protesters. Beyond that, such a numbers game is absurd.

Absolute <deleted>. As usual.

Should "peaceful protesters" have "comparative armed capabilities"? Perhaps the relatively few people killed in relation to the RTAs "armed capability" is an indication that that side was exhibiting restraint.

"Bottom line, to have one killed was too many......." Would that be Colonel Romklao, whose death was designed to throw the soldiers into confusion?

[TheCure]

If you only have one gram of intellectual honesty left in your brain , I hope you can still look at yourself in the mirror tomorrow before you start shaving, and ask yourself : who did actually murder all these people ? Is your only answer to this question is : the black shirts ?"

[phiphidon]

However, over 90 deaths on one side are not to be relegated to a statistic and is accordingly extremely self-righteous, comparatively speaking.

Please don't post false information - over 90 deaths was not had on one side.

That is the commonly accepted figure, although the UDD/RS claim there were more. They have video and commentary discussing how Red Shirt bodies were furtively removed very quickly and not recorded as killed......... If not 90 in your opinion Tawp, feel free to correct the matter.............Perhaps a ratio of one side compared to the other, would more aptly demonstrate comparative armed capabilities.................. Bottom line, to have one killed was too many, considering the legitimate and electorally proven validity of the protesters. Beyond that, such a numbers game is absurd.

There were the 165 bodies in Rayong. The red shirts claimed that they were missing red shirts buried by the army.

No, they didn't. The local police started the rumour which was picked up on twitter.

[tlansford]

Funny, how a new used barges in using a word that is not part of the English vocabulary, "coined" and abused by another poster.

Makes one wonder.

For that there is a report button.

[tlansford]

"Besides, both sides seem unable to look beyond their self-righteous perspectives, and are unable or unwilling to forgive"

The above is very true.

However, over 90 deaths on one side are not to be relegated to a statistic and is accordingly extremely self-righteous, comparatively speaking. There was no equality in both tragical consequences, nor political intention. Diminishment to equal status of the two sides is often attempted by coupist apologists, both by throwing up 'political smoke', or trying to move the focus, amplifying and embellishing the limited fightback the protesters were able to generate, regardless of the color of clothing used by those spearheading this fightback. The overwhelming trained and armed firepower the coupists brought to the political confrontation cannot be diminished or justified by demonizing the meager and paltry resistance. The context is also often obscured. It was anti-coup resistance to coupists, and not a State exercise of maintaining public order. It was a political thing and not a law enforcement issue, as the coupists self-righteously try to spin it. Last year's election clearly showed who was repudiated and who was validated.

Were the M79 grenade attacks against skytrain commuters also part of your 'anti-coup resistance'? About 100 people injured with several fatalities. Heroic stuff.

A blind man could see that the men in black were provocateurs trying to escalate the conflict. Initial attempts to clear the protesters were made with riot gear. It was the use of weapons including grenades by MIB against these troops that forced the government to arm them, which is exactly what the MIB and their paymaster wanted.Bodies were inevitable from there and that was the whole point of the exercise: Blood to destabilise the democratically elected government. There's your context.

Go ahead and invent self righteous excuses for murder. Your blind devotion to a rabid ideology and criminal politicians hell bent on screwing the country to satisfy their own egos makes me sick.

As the author here makes the point, if the gov't had not used the army and lethal force, it is very likely that there would have been many many fewer deaths and injuries.

IMO the author is correct to assign the majority of the responsibility for the deaths and casualties to the gov't's actions.

The apparently professionally armed 'MiB' complicated the situation but did not require the government to use live rounds / lethal force or shoot protesters in the Wat like fish in a barrel.

As pointed out in the article - essentially nothing which is important has been truly investigated. The government responsibility nor the identity of the armed presence among the protesters. It is unimaginable that 2 years after the events this is still the situation.

So by all means, make yourself sick if you must, but pay attention to the fact that there is an amazing dearth of information on the most important issues - related to both the government and the "protesters".

[OzMick]

"Besides, both sides seem unable to look beyond their self-righteous perspectives, and are unable or unwilling to forgive"

The above is very true.

However, over 90 deaths on one side are not to be relegated to a statistic and is accordingly extremely self-righteous, comparatively speaking. There was no equality in both tragical consequences, nor political intention. Diminishment to equal status of the two sides is often attempted by coupist apologists, both by throwing up 'political smoke', or trying to move the focus, amplifying and embellishing the limited fightback the protesters were able to generate, regardless of the color of clothing used by those spearheading this fightback. The overwhelming trained and armed firepower the coupists brought to the political confrontation cannot be diminished or justified by demonizing the meager and paltry resistance. The context is also often obscured. It was anti-coup resistance to coupists, and not a State exercise of maintaining public order. It was a political thing and not a law enforcement issue, as the coupists self-righteously try to spin it. Last year's election clearly showed who was repudiated and who was validated.

Were the M79 grenade attacks against skytrain commuters also part of your 'anti-coup resistance'? About 100 people injured with several fatalities. Heroic stuff.

A blind man could see that the men in black were provocateurs trying to escalate the conflict. Initial attempts to clear the protesters were made with riot gear. It was the use of weapons including grenades by MIB against these troops that forced the government to arm them, which is exactly what the MIB and their paymaster wanted.Bodies were inevitable from there and that was the whole point of the exercise: Blood to destabilise the democratically elected government. There's your context.

Go ahead and invent self righteous excuses for murder. Your blind devotion to a rabid ideology and criminal politicians hell bent on screwing the country to satisfy their own egos makes me sick.

As the author here makes the point, if the gov't had not used the army and lethal force, it is very likely that there would have been many many fewer deaths and injuries.

IMO the author is correct to assign the majority of the responsibility for the deaths and casualties to the gov't's actions.

The apparently professionally armed 'MiB' complicated the situation but did not require the government to use live rounds / lethal force or shoot protesters in the Wat like fish in a barrel.

As pointed out in the article - essentially nothing which is important has been truly investigated. The government responsibility nor the identity of the armed presence among the protesters. It is unimaginable that 2 years after the events this is still the situation.

So by all means, make yourself sick if you must, but pay attention to the fact that there is an amazing dearth of information on the most important issues - related to both the government and the "protesters".

How exactly do you eliminate the MIB factor without the use of lethal force? If I gave you a plastic shield and a wooden baton, would you volunteer to arrest a group armed with AK47s, M79s and the like? Or are you prepared to order others to do so?

When an armed group uses a larger peaceful gathering as a shield/camouflage it is the responsibility of the larger group to disperse when warned that lethal action is to be taken by the authorities. Allowing the MIB to continue their attacks is NOT acceptable in any society.

[whybother]

There were the 165 bodies in Rayong. The red shirts claimed that they were missing red shirts buried by the army.

No, they didn't. The local police started the rumour which was picked up on twitter.

The eastern red-shirt network has called on relevant agencies to disinter the mysterious 165 bodies from the mass graves and conduct further forensic probes as the group is confident that the corpses are those of their comrades who have been missing since the protest crackdown.

http://www.tannetwork.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1047103

[FangFerang]

This headline in translation..

Headline: All Culprits Must be made Accountable

Translation: All Active Duty Police and Prison Guards to be Arrested!