Uk Spouse Visa (Ilr) Housing And Other Requirements

[AngryParent]

I recently tried to apply for the visa for the Thai wife on the basis of living outside the UK for 4+ years together and was told that I MUST have a house in the UK before it will be approved.

1. Can somebody please confirm this.

This kind of goes against the legal route of living abroad for 4+ years (if one had housing in the UK one would not be living for 4+ years abroad with the wife).

2. Can somebody please also tell me if I was to go back to the UK by myself (first) to get a house etc. would this void the 4+ years living together and thus one would not be able to get ILR pending the life in the UK test for the wife (i.e. the wife would only get the simple spouse visa).

3. I tried to get information on size of house required and was not given a definite answer. 3 members in the family, wife, primary school child and myself - what sized place is deemed suitable?

4. Is tax credit and child allowances allowed to be claimed if the wife and son are on the 2.5 year visa and/or ILR pending the test?

Thank you.

[AngryParent]

Just to add a bit more. Can somebody confirm that one MUST have housing before it will be approved and that money in the bank for a year's rent along with evidence from estate agents that property is available is NOT acceptable to the UKBA.

I really see this in conflict with the 4+ year living abroad together visa system. On the one hand they state:

Your husband, wife or civil partner must be:

• currently living and settled in the UK; or
  
• returning to the UK with you to live here permanently (if you are currently outside the UK).
  

So this means the UK citizen can be living abroad (which means one is not living in the UK). So how can one have a house in advance? And to arrange a house with uncertainty regarding visa approval is risky and costly.

Then:

To meet the maintenance requirement evidence must be provided that demonstrates:

• Sufficient independent means,
  
• Employment for one or both of the parties,
  
• Sufficient prospects of employment for one or both parties
  

Which again indicates that one is dealing with a future time period and thus one can be permanently abroad at present. So, is there not a clash between a current housing requirement and a future intention to return to the UK i.e. the visa applicant needing housing in the future and not now?

Kind request to someone: if you want to close this thread quickly after you have responded, can I kindly ask you to bear in mind that I would appreciate you leaving it open so I can verify the accuracy of your OPINIONS and to further clarify matters. Thanks.

[7by7]

I am assuming that you are making a genuine enquiry; not asking a question so you can then 'prove' us all wrong as you have done in the past. If this topic follows that route, it will be closed.

Who told you that you must have a house in the UK?

You do not need to have your own house, rented or owned, but you cannot simply plan to turn up in the UK with nowhere to live! You must have suitable accommodation available. This could be in a property owned or rented by you, sharing with a friend or relative or even in a hotel.

If you have a letter from an estate agent confirming that a property is immediately available for you, then I cannot see why that would not be acceptable.

Whichever, there must be at least one room for the exclusive use of you and your wife and another for the child.

If neither of you have a definite job lined up in the UK then the ECO will assess the prospects of one or both of you obtaining a job; experience, etc. Obviously, if either or both of you can produce evidence of a job search then this will help. They will also take into account any savings or other income you have to support yourselves with until you do find work.

See Maintenance and accommodation.

Temporary trips by you to the UK would not break the period of you living together for ILE purposes.

Your wife will not be allowed to claim tax credits in her own right, but you will. As tax credit claims by a couple must be made jointly your wife not only can be included in your claim, she must be.

There is some dispute over whether your wife can claim child benefit or not once in the UK, but you definitely can.

[AngryParent]

Thank you.

Regarding the possibility of rented accomodation, I was given in writing that this is not acceptable from the UKBA. I have been unable to find evidence to disprove that and find it difficult to go back to get a house etc. So, can you provide me with something (evidence) that I can take to the UKBA?

Thank you for saying I need a 2 bedroom place. No exceptions e.g. living room adapted for young child?

Temporary trips by you to the UK would not break the period of you living together for ILE purposes.

If 4+ years has already been completed, can I go back and the wife applies without me living in Thailand anymore (i.e. I would have changed residence back to the UK)? I.e. to be eligible I MUST at the time of visa application be a resident in Thailand?

If so, is this not a barrier to entry? As I am sure you can see that such also makes it impossible to go back and get a job as then residence in Thailand expires. As one will need to work there and no job is kept open indefinetely and such status makes employers not want to offer employment. Do you see the point?

Thanks for the info on Tax credits.

If I claimed child allowance would this affect the son's visa status as benefits are being claimed in his name?

Edited April 12, 2012 by AngryParent

[AngryParent]

At what age for the child does it become the requirement for an extra bedroom?

[bobrussell]

If you can demonstrate you have somewhere to live (and not a promise) then the UKBA should not be in a position to refuse on those grounds alone. I seem to remember there was a post some time back where someone asked if a firm hotel booking for a period of time (plus the funds to pay for it) would be acceptable together with evidence that they were actively looking for rented accommodation. I think it was from memory but I cannot be sure!

The ECO has to be convinced that an applicant is not going to arrive on the local authority doorstep pleading homelessness and potentially jumping a very long queue for council housing.

You are entitled to come over to look for accommodation/work etc prior to permanent return. You claim child benefit in your name.

[AngryParent]

@bobrussel Thanks for that. Any evidence for that above. It sounds nice and I hope it is true.

The problem I am facing is I have "Evidence of available housing at an affordable price in a certain location will not be sufficient" from the UKBA.

The hotel option does sound interesting. DO you know for how long it needs to be booked? Also, I just thought, how can one book a hotel room when one does not know when one will be able to come as tickets etc cannot be booked prior to visa approval?

You are entitled to come over to look for accommodation/work etc prior to permanent return.

The problem is looking is temporary, but to have it secured to use as proof for the UKBA does seem to go against only being able to go temporarily outside Thailand (if this is the legal case regarding ILE applications ater being together for 4+ years?).

Forgive me all for asking for evidence, but I really do not want to blow 100,000+ baht on an opinion.

Edited April 12, 2012 by AngryParent

[Jowels]

I've just stumbled upon this thread, and it seems we have similar circumstances. I'll be following it closely.

Like yourself, I'm considering applying for a UK settlement visa for my wife. However, as I've lived in Thailand for 10 years, I don't have a job or home in the UK to return to. I have approximately GBP 60k in savings, any my intention was to use this for living/accommodation expenses until my wife and I found employment. However, I'm not sure whether this amount, which I accept isn't a king's ransom, will satisfy the UKBA. Although, I can understand why the UK govt wants to reduce immigration, their rules do seem to make it difficult for people who have resided overseas long-term to return.

[AngryParent]

@jowels Yes, they do seem to make it hard.

If I can be frank, our situations are different - you have 60K UK I have much less. With 60,000 I would hop on a plane to the UK tomorrow, rent a house for a few months (during which time your visa should be approved - I think 15 days is the time?) a few thousand would be an acceptable expense and you are probably going to get approval with such an amount of savings.

You are not eligible for any benefits with such savings (good for the UKBA) and such is more than enough under current law to ensure survival for your family for 27 months (the duration of a non-ILE visa). Your visa is sure to be approved for non-ILE or even ILE!!! Go have a beer, you have nothing to worry about! Just make sure the wife passes the English language test.

Edited April 12, 2012 by AngryParent

[7by7]

Angry Parent, have you read the link to the maintenance and accommodation guidance I linked to earlier; it is the guidance issued to ECOs and should answer most of your questions.

See MAA14 Overcrowding regarding how many rooms you need.

As already said; intending to turn up in the UK with absolutely nowhere to stay is obviously unacceptable, but do you not have any friends or relatives you could stay with until you have found somewhere?

Alternatively, as I said before, if you have a letter from an estate agent confirming that a property is immediately available for you, then I cannot see why that would not be acceptable.

With regard to child benefit; if your son is subject to immigration control you will still be able to claim child benefit; it is you who is claiming, not him. But if he is your son, why not obtain a British passport for him?

No one here can confirm what is not acceptable, as you seem to be asking us to. What we can do is offer opinions on what may be acceptable, backed up by links to the appropriate information from the UKBA and other official websites.

If you have not read the pinned topic UK Settlement Visa Basics I suggest that you do so now; you will find plenty of links there to official UKBA information.

I note that you keep on referring to information you have received from the UKBA, but never back this up with the evidence you ask of others; I wonder why that is.

I would add that plenty of people have been in your position and been successful, it is perfectly possible, if necessary, to travel to the UK, obtain a promise of accommodation and a job then return, if necessary, to Thailand to submit your partners visa application.

Edited April 12, 2012 by 7by7
Addendum

[AngryParent]

@7by7 Thank you for the reply.

I did provide the evidence. Here it is again: "Evidence of available housing at an affordable price in a certain location will not be sufficient" this is exactlly what the UKBA wrote to me in response to the exact housing question. Now this may be a mistake by a UKBA employee and as such I would like to have some evidence that I can use to go back.

If not it seems a lease must be arranged or a hotel (if bobrussel is correct). No I do not have friends or family to live with.

I am sure for my privacy reasons you will understand that I cannot supply a copy of the correspondence. But there is no logical reson why I should make it up nor is there evidence that I have made up stuff in the past either.

Regarding my question about going back to the UK after completing 4+ years (does it void ILE applications - not a temporary return)?

Edited April 12, 2012 by AngryParent

[Jowels]

Thanks for the reply.

If I can be frank, our situations are different - you have 60K UK I have much less. With 60,000 I would hop on a plane to the UK tomorrow, rent a house for a few months (during which time your visa should be approved - I think 15 days is the time?) a few thousand would be an acceptable expense and you are probably going to get approval with such an amount of savings.

Does anyone else agree with this?

[7by7]

I am sure for my privacy reasons you will understand that I cannot supply a copy of the correspondence.

You say in your OP that you recently tried to apply for a visa for your wife. Does this mean the correspondence you refer to is her refusal notice?

Or do you mean you just contacted them to ask a question?

Whichever, to be able to comment properly we would need to see the refusal notice or correspondence. Obviously, for privacy reasons, you should delete any names and other identifying information.

Regarding my question about going back to the UK after completing 4+ years (does it void ILE applications)?

I have already answered this.

The rules state that to qualify for ILE you must have been living together outside the UK for at least 4 years, but obviously temporary separations for valid reasons are allowed. A visit by you to the UK to arrange accommodation and a job would come under this.

[AngryParent]

@7by7

No it is not a refusal. The correspondence is full of personal details and situations and I am sure you will respect me privacy. Besides the line that I have quoted nothing else has relevance to this thread. My question to the UKBA is as the later part of the second sentence in post #2.

I have already answered this.

The rules state that to qualify for ILE you must have been living together outside the UK for at least 4 years, but obviously temporary separations for valid reasons are allowed. A visit by you to the UK to arrange accommodation and a job would come under this.

You have answered it but not fully.

My question is I have already completed 4+ years together. Am I now allowed to go and live and work (not a temporary visit under the law???) in the UK before approval and application for ILE? Or do I have to be living outside the UK on the spouse visa with ILE application date etc?

[RAZZELL]

What happened to the EEA Family permit and going to live Ireland/Spain/Poland?

RAZZ

Edited April 12, 2012 by RAZZELL

[AngryParent]

What happened to the EEA Family permit and going to live Ireland/Spain/Poland?

RAZZ

Still a valid option. But am trying this first.

But as I have been told I must have accommodation SECURED I would like to find out if this is 100% the case.

And for this visa I would like to know if I am allowed to travel back to the UK after already having completed the 4+ years residency requirement. Which may take months to arrange the job and house etc. Does such travel result in becoming ineligible for the spouse visa with ILE? If yes, then the ONLY choice is that Europe trip (unfortunately or fortunately).

Any answers?

[7by7]

What is it about the words 'temporary' and 'visit' that you don't understand?

I have provided links to the official sites which will give you the information you require, yet you seem to be ignoring them.

As this appears to be another topic where you ask questions simply to belittle the answers you receive, I shall not be contributing any further. If others want to play your game, that is up to them.

[AngryParent]

What is it about the words 'temporary' and 'visit' that you don't understand?

I have provided links to the official sites which will give you the information you require, yet you seem to be ignoring them.

As this appears to be another topic where you ask questions simply to belittle the answers you receive, I shall not be contributing any further. If others want to play your game, that is up to them.

As we both don't seem to understand each other I guess it is for the better.

You claim I can go back to the UK to look for a job and accommodation but then you add small print "temporary visit".

I (in my mind) think going back for what might be a few months may not be legally classified as a temporary visit. For which I asked if this few month trip will void an ILE application. This question was further based on having already completed 4+ years so I asked if that achievement will become void and/or if I need to be living in the Thailand on the application date.

A visa and immigration is a legal matter and things work on the complex meanings of individual words, phrases and sentences. Thus I need to ensure full certainty.

I am sure others will answer my question(s). Thanks so far though.

[bobrussell]

Assuming you have a British passport, you are free to come to the UK at any time, look for work/housing etc. No paperwork other than a plane ticket.

It seems you have already been together for 4+ years so coming to the UK will not change that unless the separation length suggests marriage breakdown (in which case your spouse would be unlikely to get ILR anyway). Assuming you come over, find accommodation and seek work then get your partners application to the ECO then this is not going to be a problem. It is not unusual for couples to be apart at some stage during a marriage!

Where you are on the date of application is pretty irrelevant. It is your wife that is applying. Just because you are separated for work or similar reasons does not stop you being married - just explain what is happening in a covering letter.

You will need 'secured' accommodation of some sort otherwise you will not be able to show that your wife will be adequately housed. My point with the hotel example is that the UKBA are able to be flexible in their expectations. For a returning ex-pat to arrive at Heathrow with nowhere to go is going to cause no end of bad feeling for those already struggling in the UK to find adequate accommodation.

There is already political pressure (in the form of income requirements suggested by Teresa May) to prevent ex-pat British citizens returning with family in tow, expecting the system to accommodate, feed and educate when they may have contributed little to the UK economy for years. Don't underestimate the strength of feeling in this government, there are suggestions that someone bringing wife and several children may be expected to have an income over £60K for an application to be successful! There is another thread on this.

I am not surprised by the reply from the UKBA, you do need to provide somewhere to live on arrival even if the arrangement is temporary.

I have a feeling that this discussion is going to start going round in circles but as we have been through the system fairly recently if there are any other questions hopefully help will be forthcoming!

[7by7]

AP, one final word from me.

You said here

I really don't care what you believe or not, no do I care what the muppets on the Thai nationality thread said.

The fact of the matter is I am correct here and also there - full stop!

Which I think says all that anyone needs to know about you.

As you seem to know everything and are always right, one has to wonder why you bother asking questions.

I have a feeling that this discussion is going to start going round in circles

Given the OP's attitude in previous topics both in this forum and the Thai visa forum, I agree.

Therefore