Trayvon Martin shooter makes first court appearance

[Jingthing]

A court does not establish innocence. The finding is either guilty or not guilty. It is up to the DA to prove guilt.

You're right. Frankly, I hate Zimmerman just based on not even taking a direct order to back off. He wasn't under attack, he was stalking Martin. We know those facts. He didn't back off. He was told to by police. There is no way to assert he doesn't have some responsibility for the death.

Also, it reeks that he wasn't arrested the night of the killing, just based on the facts the police did know. It wasn't like it was a home invasion!

Edited April 14, 2012 by Jingthing

[oldsailor35]

Lets face facts.

Zimmerman was carrying a gun. Zimmerman stalked a young lad who was doing no wrong. Zimmerman was told by the police to stop and leave the young lad to them. Zimmerman ignored that direction and continued to stalk the young lad. The young lad, Travon who was on his way home, was shot and killed by the stalker Zimmerman.

For goodness sake, why is'nt Zimmerman guilty of murdering the young lad.

[geriatrickid]

Oh jeez, I am arguing against people that are making points that I am sympathetic to, but we have to respect the law.

The facts are that the accused was legally licensed to carry a firearm. Carrying a legally licensed firearm in Florida does not imply guilt nor the intent to commit a criminal act. The use of the term "stalking" is not appropriate. He was not stalking, he was following. Whether he should have continuued to follow the deceased is up to the court to decide. All we have heard is that a police dispatcher said "we do not need you to follow". The dispatcher did not say stop, do not follow. Therefore comments saying he was ordered not to follow are incorrect.

Listen to the original 9-11 tape. There is no hysteria, and Mr. Zimmerman is somewhat calm. He does indicate the deceased was behaving erratically. Some may not want to hear the results of the deceased's autopsy results, but if they show that the deceased was under the influence of drugs, then Mr. Zimmerman's statements will be given added credence.

This is going to be a very upsetting case for those that want the accuseed found guilty. Based on what I have seen so far, I doubt such a verdict will be rendered as there appears to be reasonable doubt.

Edited April 14, 2012 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

The shooter wanted to kill the boy that is why he disobey's the dispatcher and went to confront a kid talking on his cell phone.

Ulysses and a few others, imagine this scenario. The gun went off and killed the vigilante, what would happen to the kid. Will the police just say we asked the fattie to stay in his car and stop following or the police claim trayvorn was acting in self defense?

Why would a teenager walking around a nice neighborhood talking on his cell be a cause for armed assault?

Why do you have to use the term "fattie"? You have already judged Mr. Zimmerman guilty and attached an insulting term. You have no idea as to what went on since none of the circumstances have been factually established. Instead of relying on assumprions and allowing your own bias, why don't you let the case be investigated and tried?

[kerryk]

Too bad America has a race problem. This case will be decided pretty much along coalition lines.

[KhaoNiaw]

However, there is far too much haste in rushing to judgement.

Which is surely the root of the problem? The fact that the police rushed to judge Zimmerman as innocent and just let him walk in the first place. This 'stand your ground' law works simply by having someone say 'I felt I was threatened'. End of story?

[Jingthing]

They need to trash that stand your ground law too if people like Zimmerman think that gives him a license to stalk and shoot teenagers.

[kerryk]

They need to trash that stand your ground law too if people like Zimmerman think that gives him a license to stalk and shoot teenagers.

Interesting but has nothing to do with the current case for which the law was in effect.

[Jingthing]

They need to trash that stand your ground law too if people like Zimmerman think that gives him a license to stalk and shoot teenagers.

Interesting but has nothing to do with the current case for which the law was in effect.

Yes, but chances are this case will be used to prevent these laws in other states and or to overturn Florida's law.

[KhaoNiaw]

They need to trash that stand your ground law too if people like Zimmerman think that gives him a license to stalk and shoot teenagers.

Interesting but has nothing to do with the current case for which the law was in effect.

I'm still interested to know how the law is put into effect though. It would seem that the police just took the shooter's word for it?

[kerryk]

They need to trash that stand your ground law too if people like Zimmerman think that gives him a license to stalk and shoot teenagers.

Interesting but has nothing to do with the current case for which the law was in effect.

Yes, but chances are this case will be used to prevent these laws in other states and or to overturn Florida's law.

Ya the 11 million retired people, registered voters living in Florida really are concerned about the civil rights of black guys wearing a hoody wandering around their neighborhoods at night.

[flying]

Race talk aside there has to be a balance of lethal force used versus perceived threat.

AFAIK from what little I have seen here in the US...The deceased was packing a can of iced tea & a bag of skittles.

He was not illegally on any property nor attacking anyone.

He was returning to his fathers fiancée house when the security person saw & followed him. He thought he looked suspicious & if

this security person has been there awhile perhaps rightfully so as he knew this to be a stranger to the neighborhood.

But ...

After which the shooter claims a fight broke out which led him to draw his weapon & shoot.

I am not really following the story here & do not watch TV in general anymore but if this is what they have....

The shooter will need more to justify his use of lethal force IMO

In the end while maybe a stranger to that area the deceased did no wrong & may have even thought the security person

was a thug....We will not know what caused the fight...only the shooter now knows.

But again a use of lethal force has to be justified by degree of threat........Of course castle laws are different but this was not a break & entry scenario

In the end It was just a citizen on a public street...........packing an ice tea & a bag of skittles.

[Colin Yai]

Wrong, they want the guy to be found Guilty irrespective of the Evidence.

That might be true and you can't expect the family to be objective. They want someone to pay. The man who shot the gun would be the obvious suspect, yes? I agree with the idea of having the trial, of course. Bring it on. I bet he's convicted of at least manslaughter.

Yeah you said it right ,they want someone to pay, the whole scenario stinks to high heaven ,the police must have thought they had no case against the guy ,if they had why the time lapse before he was charged?, nah this is a purely political decision ,and the decision IMHO came from the very highest level ,not the police or prosecutors .

[JemJem]

Other than the serious issue of racism, there is also the serious issue of (lack of) gun control. It's time the US (and some other countries, including Thailand) get its act together and started getting tough regarding gun control. It's time the silly and dangerous 'Guns don't kill people; people kill people' argument is not taken seriously by lawmakers.

Also, what kind of example is being set to new generations who grow up thinking (or rather, being made to think) that a society being armed to the teeth is a normal thing ?!

Jem

[endure]

Wrong, they want the guy to be found Guilty irrespective of the Evidence.

That might be true and you can't expect the family to be objective. They want someone to pay. The man who shot the gun would be the obvious suspect, yes? I agree with the idea of having the trial, of course. Bring it on. I bet he's convicted of at least manslaughter.

Yeah you said it right ,they want someone to pay, the whole scenario stinks to high heaven ,the police must have thought they had no case against the guy ,if they had why the time lapse before he was charged?, nah this is a purely political decision ,and the decision IMHO came from the very highest level ,not the police or prosecutors .

Are you seriously saying that someone can be killed without some sort of investigation? Without the person who did the killing at least being detained and questioned about the circumstances in which they killed? Or is it only black boys named Trayvon who don't need their death investigated?

[Colin Yai]

Wrong, they want the guy to be found Guilty irrespective of the Evidence.

That might be true and you can't expect the family to be objective. They want someone to pay. The man who shot the gun would be the obvious suspect, yes? I agree with the idea of having the trial, of course. Bring it on. I bet he's convicted of at least manslaughter.

Yeah you said it right ,they want someone to pay, the whole scenario stinks to high heaven ,the police must have thought they had no case against the guy ,if they had why the time lapse before he was charged?, nah this is a purely political decision ,and the decision IMHO came from the very highest level ,not the police or prosecutors .

Are you seriously saying that someone can be killed without some sort of investigation? Without the person who did the killing at least being detained and questioned about the circumstances in which they killed? Or is it only black boys named Trayvon who don't need their death investigated?

Maybe the police thought it was an "open and shut case" of self defence which would appear to be the case until immense pressure was brought to bear from "high up" ,and how do you know that an investigation was not held at the time of the shooting,or for that matter that he was not questioned ,you don't do you?,and with respect how the bloody hell can anyone prove or disprove what was or was not going on in Zimmermans mind at the time of the incident? Edited April 14, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Ulysses G.]

I, like probably millions of others look at a picture of the deceased and see someone that is non threatening and not to be flippant, but a nice looking kid.

Those pictures were when he was a child. Look at some more recent ones.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Naam]

Wrong, they want the guy to be found Guilty irrespective of the Evidence.

That might be true and you can't expect the family to be objective. They want someone to pay. The man who shot the gun would be the obvious suspect, yes? I agree with the idea of having the trial, of course. Bring it on. I bet he's convicted of at least manslaughter.

Yeah you said it right ,they want someone to pay, the whole scenario stinks to high heaven ,the police must have thought they had no case against the guy ,if they had why the time lapse before he was charged?, nah this is a purely political decision ,and the decision IMHO came from the very highest level ,not the police or prosecutors .

Are you seriously saying that someone can be killed without some sort of investigation? Without the person who did the killing at least being detained and questioned about the circumstances in which they killed? Or is it only black boys named Trayvon who don't need their death investigated?

that's exactly what he is saying!

[Ulysses G.]

They need to trash that stand your ground law too if people like Zimmerman think that gives him a license to stalk and shoot teenagers.

Interesting but has nothing to do with the current case for which the law was in effect.

I'm still interested to know how the law is put into effect though. It would seem that the police just took the shooter's word for it?

There is evidence that Zimmerman was attacked - the cuts on his head, the broken nose and the grass stains on the back of his shirt. Reportedly, two eye witnesses have said that they saw Treyvan on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. Don't get me wrong, I do think that this is case is suspicious, but there is also a fair chance that Zimmerman acted in self-defence.

[Naam]

I, like probably millions of others look at a picture of the deceased and see someone that is non threatening and not to be flippant, but a nice looking kid.

Those pictures were when he was a child. Look at some more recent ones.

yeah right! looks like one grown-up mean, threatening and criminal n-word which should be shot at sight especially when wearing a hoodie.

i lived for 15 years across Lake Monroe on which Sanford is located. the local news were quite often loaded with racial tension and discrimination although the city has a substantial number of black citizens.

[Ulysses G.]

It sounds like you are pre-judging Zimmerman in the same way that you think that he pre-judged Treyvan. As far as supposed "racial discrimination" goes, Zimmerman looks 100% Hispanic. Why would the police be any less bigoted against him than Treyvan?

[Colin Yai]

Yeah UG Naam has all the evidence to hand and Zimmerman is Guilty

[Colin Yai]

I, like probably millions of others look at a picture of the deceased and see someone that is non threatening and not to be flippant, but a nice looking kid.

Those pictures were when he was a child. Look at some more recent ones.

yeah right! looks like one grown-up mean, threatening and criminal n-word which should be shot at sight especially when wearing a hoodie.

i lived for 15 years across Lake Monroe on which Sanford is located. the local news were quite often loaded with racial tension and discrimination although the city has a substantial number of black citizens.

An Amazing summing up Naam ,of course you have all the details of the case at your disposal!!

[Steely Dan]

I have an open mind as to what happened, indeed it is and should always be a matter for the police not the press or politicians. Alas, not only do we have this case which has been charged with overtones of racism but it has also been conflated with the murder of an Iranian woman called Shaima Alawadi, who was killed in her own home and a racist note was left by the presumed killer. So we have marches and protests for 'Hoodies and Hijabs' linking the cases. Both did indeed have one thing in common, a rush to judgement and blame before police investigations were even concluded. As it turns out there is a considerable chance that the Shaima Alawadi murder was actually an honor killing. It is perhaps a shame for those so quick and willing to play the race card that Zimmerman is hispanic and not white, however in today's post-news age why let facts get in the way of agenda?

[zydeco]

I, like probably millions of others look at a picture of the deceased and see someone that is non threatening and not to be flippant, but a nice looking kid.

Those pictures were when he was a child. Look at some more recent ones.

yeah right! looks like one grown-up mean, threatening and criminal n-word which should be shot at sight especially when wearing a hoodie.

i lived for 15 years across Lake Monroe on which Sanford is located. the local news were quite often loaded with racial tension and discrimination although the city has a substantial number of black citizens.

The only person involved in this encounter who was known to have employed the "n-word" was Trayvon Martin himself, who apparently used the handle, "No_Limit_Nigga", on his Twitter account.

[Colin Yai]

I, like probably millions of others look at a picture of the deceased and see someone that is non threatening and not to be flippant, but a nice looking kid.

Those pictures were when he was a child. Look at some more recent ones.

yeah right! looks like one grown-up mean, threatening and criminal n-word which should be shot at sight especially when wearing a hoodie.

i lived for 15 years across Lake Monroe on which Sanford is located. the local news were quite often loaded with racial tension and discrimination although the city has a substantial number of black citizens.

The only person involved in this encounter who was known to have employed the "n-word" was Trayvon Martin himself, who apparently used the handle, "No_Limit_Nigga", on his Twitter account.

Any Answers to this revelation Naam? , you are quick to make baseless allegations ,but slow on answering any one questioning your views!. Edited April 15, 2012 by Colin Yai

[chuckd]

I wonder how this thread would read if Zimmerman was a black man?

Better yet, would this thread even exist!

[chuckd]

There have been 120 murders in Chicago so far this year (2012).

Why are Obama, the Congressional Black Caucus, Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson (who is from Chicago) not expressing outrage over this issue and beating their collective chests over it?

Maybe because the majority of shootings in Chicago are black on black, not Hispanic on black.

...and it is an election year.

_____________________________________________________

Chicago Shootings: 3 Dead, 7 Wounded In Overnight Friday Gun Violence

Posted: 04/14/2012 1:45 pm Updated: 04/14/2012 3:23 pm

Three people were killed and seven others injured in shootings Friday evening into Saturday morning in Chicago, continuing what has already been a bloody spring in the Second City.

David Loggins, 52, of the 6500 block of South Champlain Avenue, was shot in the neck at 1:23 a.m. Saturday in the 6400 block of South Langley Avenue, police say, and was pronounced dead at the scene, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

The Chicago Tribune reports that a 31-year-old man was found with a gunshot wound to the torso in his cab near the intersection of Racine Avenue and 69th Street. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center and pronounced dead there at about 3:45 a.m. His identity has not yet been released.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1425694.html

http://www.huffingto..._n_1420382.html

[Koratpat]

Frankly, I hate Zimmerman

You hate him? Really? Really? You certainly are a strange person to be able to hate someone you never met.

a direct order to back off.

Order? Direct order? By who?

Frankly, I hate Zimmerman just based on not even taking a direct order to back off. He wasn't under attack, he was stalking Martin. We know those facts. He didn't back off. He was told to by police.

Police dispatchers are civilians. They have absolutely NO authority. They are simply a telephone operator that receives calls from the public at the police headquarters. They relay and receive information with patrol officers via radio. They are not schooled in criminal or traffic law. They are schooled in records keeping, radio communications (10 codes and signal codes) and NCIC data base use. Some of them are decent typists however!

This thread should be renamed "Jingthing convicts Zimmerman with all sorts of misinformation, media hype he has swallowed and a complete lack of knowledge in criminal law"

[Koratpat]

Too bad America has a race problem. This case will be decided pretty much along coalition lines.

America, the UK, Europe, Canada, Asia and even Thailand has race problems. Racism is a worldwide problem.