Name On Birth Certificate Vs. Paternity/Child Support

[sweetjesus2012]

My thai ex girlfriend is pregnant with our baby. It's a sad and messy situation. She decided to have a baby 100% against my will, and she completely dismissed the agreement we had, that she would get an abortion if something were to happened. She got pregnant after I broke up with her, and she had moved out - when we just saw each other casually (yeah I know, no lectures please)

I am extremely frustrated about the situation. I care for her, but i cannot have a family with her. I am just here as a "tourist" with no long-term future plans in LOS. I think she knows that, and she just decided to "make" a baby out of frustration and pure selfishness.

The other day I received a msg from her, if I could give her a signed copy of my passport, so that my name could go on the birth certificate of the child. I replied with a no, thinking that this could only be bad for me. She said that it didn't meant anything else than having the real father on the certificate. But I didn't want to take any risk in such a serious matter. I will not voluntary let myself be forced into paying child support for 18 years, by signing any papers that I don't know the legal meaning of.

My question here is: Would it be harmless, or not, to sign a copy of my passport and give to my ex, so she can put my name down as the father. What can she do with a copy of my passport anyways? I would have to sign the actual birth certificate to make it valid, no?

Any kind of advice/information about how I should consider my situation legally etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

A frustrated Scandinavian

[mike123ca]

On my children's birth certificate, It has the name of their Thai mother and her Thai I.D. number. Their is the same space for father which has my name and they used my passport I.D. number in place of the Thai I.D. number.

As for signing the birth certificate papers, this is done at the hospital and I wasn't there when the papers were made. My wife gave the relevant information to her sister-in-law and she provided the information that was needed.

[Mario2008]

Having your name on the birth certificate is only a claim that you are the father, it doesn't mean that you are the legal father. But might make it a bit easier if you ever accept that you are the fahter and want the child to have your name and also your nationality.

Whether you are named on the birth certificate or not doesn't matter, you can stilll be sued for child support and a judge can order a DNA test.

Child support is for the child, and the child is the responsibility of both of you.

More info on legitimizing a child: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/

[sweetjesus2012]

Thanks for answering me!

@ Mario2008

Wouldn't you say, that it would me much more likely that the mother (and her family) would try to sue me for child support, if I sign the BC and give the authorities my information as a father? Wouldn't that be seen as some kind of invitation to "come after me" if I did that?

Without signing, then it would be very difficult to sue me, if I;

1. Are staying in LOS as a tourist (with no registered address)

2. Are not in LOS at all.

If you still think there is not real difference between signing the BC or not. Then I would probably sign it.

Edited April 19, 2012 by sweetjesus2012

[Mario2008]

The copy of your passport makes it easier to identify you if they want to file a paternity suit and ak for child support on behalf of he child.

Not being in LOS at all might be to your disadvantage, as they could persue the case in your home country. In that case a judge will award a lot more money in child support than a Thai judge.

But no matter how you feel, the child is your responsibility too.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

In my case, I had exactly the same situation, and I ended up marrying her, she had a second baby, also while swearing she was on birth control and reneging on a promise to abort. I am now a single father with sole custody of two lovely kids, best thing that ever happened to me, no regrets except for the time energy and heartache wrt their mother.

Unlike others I won't try to tell you whether or not you *should* fulfill your responsibilities as a father.

Assuming you want to completely bail out, from a strictly practical POV:

Of course you shouldn't have any contact with her whatsoever, much less providing her any information as to your identity etc. Such matters here are civil suit only, and very difficult to enforce, the government has nothing like the efficiency and authority that they use back home to enforce child support, it's considered the same as any other debt, like failing to pay off a credit card.

The time, trouble and expense of trying to track you down and serve you summons is so great I can say 99.99% sure she won't, unless her family is genuinely wealthy, in which case the legal side of things is the least of your worries - get out of Dodge ASAP.

However, if you think you will want to help out to some extent, or have the option of changing your mind in the future:

Having your name on the BC means absolutely nothing wrt your rights and obligations as a father, other than evidence that you volunteered to do so would go against you in a (very unlikely) civil suit. If you provide her with your full name, nationality and passport number via means that don't show that, she could have obtained them surreptitiously and put your name down as a scam.

The flip side of this of course is that you don't have any legal claim on the child, if she were to give it up for adoption, sell it into slavery or even if she passed away. Or at least such would require a difficult and expensive legal process with limited chance of success from a practical POV if she did a runner.

So my personal recommendation if you think you **may** want to help support your child financially would be to not only register on the BC, but after its born, and subject to a DNA test if you like, actually go through the legal process of having yourself registered as the biological father. You could offer to for example pay her medical expenses for her cooperation in that.

If she is a poor upcountry peasant girl, even with this she will be unable in practice to force you against your will to pay anything further, and even if she did raise the funds (and energy/willpower etc) to initiate a civil suit, as you said you can simply exit Thailand and it stops there.

However this would allow you to change your mind in the future and have some say in how the child is raised, or perhaps even take over its rearing if you end up in a suitable situation and want to do that - in effect you'd have to bribe the mother to give up her rights, but that's usually pretty cheap and easy.

The key element in such a strategy, as with other negotiations is to never let on that you actually value whatever it is she has the power to withhold - you need to be obviously ready to walk away at any point, you're only doing anything she would want out of the goodness of your heart.

So, obviously all this is up to you; I do however advise you to think long and hard so that you come to a decision that you won't want to change later one and that will allow you to sleep well at night.

[sweetjesus2012]

@BigJohnny,

I am very grateful for your informative and thoughtful reply to my post. Thank you very much.

I have decided to sign the BC, and will contact the mother soon, to discuss the practicalities. What happens from hereon, depends on various factors. Your advice and information has certainly given me a much better understanding of the situation.

Thanks

Edited April 26, 2012 by sweetjesus2012

[BigJohnnyBKK]

@BigJohnny,

I am very grateful for your informative and thoughtful reply to my post. Thank you very much.

I have decided to sign the BC, and will contact the mother soon, to discuss the practicalities. What happens from hereon, depends on various factors. Your advice and information has certainly given me a much better understanding of the situation.

Thanks

Very happy to help, and feel free to follow up via PM to continue the conversation, I'd like to know what you decide to do and how it all turns out.

[61guitarman61]

If a man registers as the father of a child at the Amphur, does that automatically give the child the father's last name? What does this registration mean in the father's home country, USA for instance?

[Mario2008]

If a man registers as the father of a child at the Amphur, does that automatically give the child the father's last name? What does this registration mean in the father's home country, USA for instance?

No, not automatically but the child can change the name to yours.

If the child is legitmised as yours, the child could have or gain the same nationality as yours. The US might require DNA testing for confirmation. You would need a consular report of birth abroad from the embassy.

Legitimisation means that you become the legal father of the child. That is recognised by other coutnries. But there are differences, for instance regarding acquiring nationality or not.

Legitimisation at the amphur is done with mother and child agreeing. Being named on the birth certificate is not enough!

[Satcommlee]

Someone should point out that the child maintenance awarded in Thai court would be between 3000 - 6000 Baht, make sure you let her know that YOU know this.

Before the demands for 20'000 Baht a month are received.

[61guitarman61]

If a man registers as the father of a child at the Amphur, does that automatically give the child the father's last name? What does this registration mean in the father's home country, USA for instance?

No, not automatically but the child can change the name to yours.

If the child is legitmised as yours, the child could have or gain the same nationality as yours. The US might require DNA testing for confirmation. You would need a consular report of birth abroad from the embassy.

Legitimisation means that you become the legal father of the child. That is recognised by other coutnries. But there are differences, for instance regarding acquiring nationality or not.

Legitimisation at the amphur is done with mother and child agreeing. Being named on the birth certificate is not enough!

What if the child is only 2 years old? What is consenting age?

Have you ever heard of an amphur requiring the foreign passport to be translated to Thai? That is what the local amphur is requesting of my American PP.

Someone apparently legitimized his child without being married and the child is 3 years old. How could they have done that?

Thanks much

[Mario2008]

Consenting age is for a child to agree that you are the father, the law doesn't state an age. In practice tamphurs require the child to be 7 years old (or maybe enrolled in first class of elementary school). If you live in the boondocks where everybody knows each other, some amphurs will allow at a age of 4 or 5.

A translation of your passport is not unheard of and often necessary as all documents are made up in Thai and they need a spelling of your name in Thai language. If you have for example a Thai drivers license or work permit you can show the copy of that and often that is accepted, as it is already an official translation . it also ensures that you are listed under the same name with the Thai government.

Legitimisation of the child can be done in 3 ways:

- at the local amphur, with consent of mother and child

- by marrying the mother

- by petitioning the court to be recognized as the father

He probably did the last, although see my remark about some amphurs up-country. 3 is a bit young, but it can be done at some amphurs up-country.

[61guitarman61]

Thanks for the info.