Fat %

[tropo]

Tropo, i will get some of those calipers. The ones i got are a bit old. But the problem will be getting the right spots.I will need my gf to help me with that.

On me I would say the 7 site method I linked above is the most accurate (gave me the highest reading of the 3 I used).

Your gf will only need to help with with the subscapular and the triceps, the rest you can do yourself. Doing other areas, for example, in different places around your abs can be useful too. You can refer back to these areas to measure progress.

[tropo]

I just bought myself some accurate food scales and decided to work out exactly how many calories my pre-workout (breakfast) meal is.

It comes out to a whopping 940 calories. No kidding... and that's after drinking 250 ml of kefir which probably provides another 80 calories (just guessing here) and I have some fruit before I leave to go gym too - another 70 calories or so. No wonder I'm like a human dynamo in gym about 2 hours later after consuming about 1100 calories for breakfast.

That includes 54 grams of whey protein.

Then I have a post workout protein drink which provides another 569 - 600 calories including another 54 grams of whey protein.

That's a pretty big percentage of my BMR which is probably about 2400. I have no idea how many calories I'm consuming over the whole day, but it must be way over my BMR - yet I'm (slowly) losing fat.

[robblok]

Tropo,

I am one that does not consume much, never have. I also read that there can be a 20% !!! variance between people in BMR with the same data. So i don't know but if your loosing fat your doing it right.

I ordered a bodymedia thing for on my arm one of our friends here recommended it to me. He found out he burned much more then he ate and when he started to eat more he started to loose more weight. (still under his expenditure). I was always curious but skeptical, so i will see at least it will give me some information. There are tons of people who use it and say it works good. It wont be 100% accurate but will be better as a formula.

[tropo]

Let's hope it gives you better information than the Tanita Body Composition Analyser SC-330 down at my gym. I decided to hop on it again and it tells me I'm still 21% bodyfat and I've LOST muscle too (since January). It has a hard job distinguishing muscle from fat. They should dump it because I'm sure it's sending many members away feeling depressed.

Where did you buy this Bodymedia device? What did it cost?

[robblok]

Let's hope it gives you better information than the Tanita Body Composition Analyser SC-330 down at my gym. I decided to hop on it again and it tells me I'm still 21% bodyfat and I've LOST muscle too (since January). It has a hard job distinguishing muscle from fat. They should dump it because I'm sure it's sending many members away feeling depressed.

Where did you buy this Bodymedia device? What did it cost?

Tropo its not a fat percentage meter it tells you how much you burn. i can give you a link. I bought it on ebay. it has sensors and you wear it all day. According to GLVB its quite good. I looked at it before i believe 200$

http://www.bodymedia.com/

[tropo]

Tropo its not a fat percentage meter it tells you how much you burn. i can give you a link. I bought it on ebay. it has sensors and you wear it all day. According to GLVB its quite good. I looked at it before i believe 200$

http://www.bodymedia.com/

I understand. I was just making a comment to demonstrate how wrong "devices" can be. Hopefully that one does the trick for you.

[robblok]

Tropo its not a fat percentage meter it tells you how much you burn. i can give you a link. I bought it on ebay. it has sensors and you wear it all day. According to GLVB its quite good. I looked at it before i believe 200$

http://www.bodymedia.com/

I understand. I was just making a comment to demonstrate how wrong "devices" can be. Hopefully that one does the trick for you.

I agree about how wrong they can be, though this one might do the trick. I will see im still skeptical but heard many good things. Thing is nothing will be 100% accurate. I just hope its 95% or 90%. I will see.

[Trenton42]

Just got off the phone with BNH Hospital.

They do indeed have a DEXA machine, and the cost of a scan in 4k THB.

Unfortunately, the girl on the phone couldn’t tell me if the scan included body-fat information. I think it’ll require a visit to sort out.

On Monday, I’ll call Thammasat, and Pattaya Bangkok to see if they have the machines, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it requires a visit to determined exactly what they offer.

[robblok]

Thanks this is usefull information. Its expensive but not that expensive. I could do it once every 2 months or so.

I just got some fat calipers (digital ones) still hard to do but i think i got around 15% and i want to go to 10% because at that leven in normal cases abs appear.

[tropo]

Just got off the phone with BNH Hospital.

They do indeed have a DEXA machine, and the cost of a scan in 4k THB.

Unfortunately, the girl on the phone couldn’t tell me if the scan included body-fat information. I think it’ll require a visit to sort out.

On Monday, I’ll call Thammasat, and Pattaya Bangkok to see if they have the machines, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it requires a visit to determined exactly what they offer.

The scan I did covered bone density and body fat info.

Let us know what you discover. 4K is reasonable. It's not something you'd have to do too often.

Rob, if you did one DEXA scan, you could correlate them with your skin callipers results and have no need to return for a 2nd scan. At your age, if you're not carrying much visceral stomach fat, you may find the skin callipers are pretty close to your true body fat percentage. What is your waist girth?

[Trenton42]

Thanks this is usefull information. Its expensive but not that expensive. I could do it once every 2 months or so.

BNH isn’t known for being the least expensive hospital. Thus I’m hoping some other hospitals might be less expensive. But I will say that it’s difficult to beat the service at BNH. If one doesn’t speak Thai, a visit to BNH is a piece of cake.

Since my last post, found out that Samitivej and Vibhavadi Hospitals also have DEXA machines, as does Bangkok Hospital, Phuket.

The GF has a relative that’s a doctor at Vibhavadi. Will try to get some more information today, if possible.

[Trenton42]

Just got off the phone with BNH Hospital.

They do indeed have a DEXA machine, and the cost of a scan in 4k THB.

Unfortunately, the girl on the phone couldn’t tell me if the scan included body-fat information. I think it’ll require a visit to sort out.

On Monday, I’ll call Thammasat, and Pattaya Bangkok to see if they have the machines, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it requires a visit to determined exactly what they offer.

The scan I did covered bone density and body fat info.

Let us know what you discover. 4K is reasonable. It's not something you'd have to do too often.

I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the DEXA in Thailand also included body-fat information and the Thais just don’t know it. But I wouldn’t spend a satang on the test unless I can verify that it does indeed include body-fat information.

Currently, my body-fat percentage is high enough that I’m satisfied with the US Navy formula to gauge progress, but I do think it would be a good idea to have a DEXA scan to compare with future scans.

[Trenton42]

At Vibhavadi Hospital, a two-scan package costs 2,100 THB, and one scan costs 1,700 THB.

A very reasonable price, but they couldn’t verify if the reports include muscle mass and body fat information. Most likely because their English (and my Thai) just couldn’t bridge the gap.

From doing a little research on the Internet, found that a DEXA scanner requires special software to determine body composition.

I may make a visit to Vibhavadi and BNH Hospitals to see if I can get more information, but am not holding my breath. If DEXA scanners came out of the crate with the ability to determine body composition, that would be one thing. But needing special software to do so increases the degree of difficulty for the locals.

[robblok]

At Vibhavadi Hospital, a two-scan package costs 2,100 THB, and one scan costs 1,700 THB.

A very reasonable price, but they couldn’t verify if the reports include muscle mass and body fat information. Most likely because their English (and my Thai) just couldn’t bridge the gap.

From doing a little research on the Internet, found that a DEXA scanner requires special software to determine body composition.

I may make a visit to Vibhavadi and BNH Hospitals to see if I can get more information, but am not holding my breath. If DEXA scanners came out of the crate with the ability to determine body composition, that would be one thing. But needing special software to do so increases the degree of difficulty for the locals.

Yes i just hope they do the bodymass too else its not useable. I must say im impressed by your persistance. It would be good to know this and for those prices i would certainly let it done. Sounds like a good way to keep track.

[danbradster]

http://www.leighpeel...and-percentages This is a decent example of how to visually estimate BF and this lines up with the fact that atm im measuring 12% and see top 2 abs fairly defined.

Here's another example with photos of males and females from 35% to 3% - Body Fat Photos

[tropo]

http://www.leighpeel...and-percentages This is a decent example of how to visually estimate BF and this lines up with the fact that atm im measuring 12% and see top 2 abs fairly defined.

Here's another example with photos of males and females from 35% to 3% - Body Fat Photos

And all wildly inaccurate. Probably all based on 'say so' at worst and pinch calipers at best. Some of the lower girls percentages are way off the mark IMO.

I know I'm 8.9% by DEXA scan (or more accurately - were a month ago) and I do match quite well with the 9% example on your list, but he doesn't show any obvious vascularity at that percentage - something which I would expect from a hard training bodybuilder.

[rucus7]

There are accurate ways to determine bodyfat percentages, but where are they available in Thailand?

Here's exactly how I went on 4 different methods. Apart from the pinch calliper test, they were done within a 2 hour period 2 years ago in NZ. The hydrostatic weighing and the "InBody" composition analyser were done at the Otago University and the DEXA scan was done at the Dunedin Hospital. The pinch calliper test was done a week earlier by a friend who has a lot of experience using the device and it is an average of 9 positions. At the time my bodyweight was 115kg.

Hydrostatic weighing: 17.9%

InBody 230 Body Composition Analyser: 15.8%

DEXA Scan: 16.9%

Callipers: 10.7%

I would consider the DEXA Scan to be the gold standard method. You may notice that I was a percent higher in the hydrostatic weighing test. This is probably because an accurate hydrostatic result relies on exhaling all of the air from your lungs, which is not easy to do. More air in lungs when you go under water - more fat in the result.

I made a huge effort and spent a lot of money to find out what was really going on with me because although I was showing a reasonable level of abdominal definition, my waist was still over 40 inches (age 50) whereas it used to be around 32 inches in my 20's. The difference had to be visceral fat and I proved it.

The difference between my calliper result (10.7%) and the DEXA result (16.9%) is about 6%. People don't seem to grasp the significance of this as I'm still hearing that the calliper test is accurate if done by a professional.

This simply is not true. Visceral fat accumulates on average at the rate of about 1% per decade from age 20 on. A pinch calliper test only determines, with a moderate level of accuracy, subcutaneous fat levels in young people, but this will also vary widely as even young people can carry a significant amount of visceral fat. Obviously heavy drinkers in their 30's and 40's will be way above the average. Anyone with a beer gut can forget about using pinch callipers no what what their age.

The DEXA Scan broke down the fat composition of different body sections:

Arms: 9.2% fat

Legs: 12.6%

Trunk: 23.6%

Android: 24.0%

Gynoid: 20.0%

It also gave me other useful information such as bone density and bone calcium.

Pinch callipers are still very useful as a measure of progress, but as a absolute measurement they are useless.

Dexa scan far from the gold standard, see link

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=260http:

[tropo]

There are accurate ways to determine bodyfat percentages, but where are they available in Thailand?

Here's exactly how I went on 4 different methods. Apart from the pinch calliper test, they were done within a 2 hour period 2 years ago in NZ. The hydrostatic weighing and the "InBody" composition analyser were done at the Otago University and the DEXA scan was done at the Dunedin Hospital. The pinch calliper test was done a week earlier by a friend who has a lot of experience using the device and it is an average of 9 positions. At the time my bodyweight was 115kg.

Hydrostatic weighing: 17.9%

InBody 230 Body Composition Analyser: 15.8%

DEXA Scan: 16.9%

Callipers: 10.7%

I would consider the DEXA Scan to be the gold standard method. You may notice that I was a percent higher in the hydrostatic weighing test. This is probably because an accurate hydrostatic result relies on exhaling all of the air from your lungs, which is not easy to do. More air in lungs when you go under water - more fat in the result.

I made a huge effort and spent a lot of money to find out what was really going on with me because although I was showing a reasonable level of abdominal definition, my waist was still over 40 inches (age 50) whereas it used to be around 32 inches in my 20's. The difference had to be visceral fat and I proved it.

The difference between my calliper result (10.7%) and the DEXA result (16.9%) is about 6%. People don't seem to grasp the significance of this as I'm still hearing that the calliper test is accurate if done by a professional.

This simply is not true. Visceral fat accumulates on average at the rate of about 1% per decade from age 20 on. A pinch calliper test only determines, with a moderate level of accuracy, subcutaneous fat levels in young people, but this will also vary widely as even young people can carry a significant amount of visceral fat. Obviously heavy drinkers in their 30's and 40's will be way above the average. Anyone with a beer gut can forget about using pinch callipers no what what their age.

The DEXA Scan broke down the fat composition of different body sections:

Arms: 9.2% fat

Legs: 12.6%

Trunk: 23.6%

Android: 24.0%

Gynoid: 20.0%

It also gave me other useful information such as bone density and bone calcium.

Pinch callipers are still very useful as a measure of progress, but as a absolute measurement they are useless.

Dexa scan far from the gold standard, see link

http://weightology.n...age_id=260http:

Thanks for the link. I'll have to do some more research on this.... but

The term "gold standard" was meant in the context of readily available (not in Thailand), cost effective methods available to the public. For example the cost of a CAT scan would be prohibitive. What other methods can you suggest?

You can see in my post that I had 3 methods done in the same day (actually within an hour). DEXA and hydrostatic weighing were 1% different. The hydrostatic weighing had the problem that it is difficult to exhale all the air from your lungs while submerged in an awkward position under water - that would give a high reading.

My current DEXA reading is identical to a 7 - spot skin fold calculation.

[rucus7]

There are accurate ways to determine bodyfat percentages, but where are they available in Thailand?

Here's exactly how I went on 4 different methods. Apart from the pinch calliper test, they were done within a 2 hour period 2 years ago in NZ. The hydrostatic weighing and the "InBody" composition analyser were done at the Otago University and the DEXA scan was done at the Dunedin Hospital. The pinch calliper test was done a week earlier by a friend who has a lot of experience using the device and it is an average of 9 positions. At the time my bodyweight was 115kg.

Hydrostatic weighing: 17.9%

InBody 230 Body Composition Analyser: 15.8%

DEXA Scan: 16.9%

Callipers: 10.7%

I would consider the DEXA Scan to be the gold standard method. You may notice that I was a percent higher in the hydrostatic weighing test. This is probably because an accurate hydrostatic result relies on exhaling all of the air from your lungs, which is not easy to do. More air in lungs when you go under water - more fat in the result.

I made a huge effort and spent a lot of money to find out what was really going on with me because although I was showing a reasonable level of abdominal definition, my waist was still over 40 inches (age 50) whereas it used to be around 32 inches in my 20's. The difference had to be visceral fat and I proved it.

The difference between my calliper result (10.7%) and the DEXA result (16.9%) is about 6%. People don't seem to grasp the significance of this as I'm still hearing that the calliper test is accurate if done by a professional.

This simply is not true. Visceral fat accumulates on average at the rate of about 1% per decade from age 20 on. A pinch calliper test only determines, with a moderate level of accuracy, subcutaneous fat levels in young people, but this will also vary widely as even young people can carry a significant amount of visceral fat. Obviously heavy drinkers in their 30's and 40's will be way above the average. Anyone with a beer gut can forget about using pinch callipers no what what their age.

The DEXA Scan broke down the fat composition of different body sections:

Arms: 9.2% fat

Legs: 12.6%

Trunk: 23.6%

Android: 24.0%

Gynoid: 20.0%

It also gave me other useful information such as bone density and bone calcium.

Pinch callipers are still very useful as a measure of progress, but as a absolute measurement they are useless.

Dexa scan far from the gold standard, see link

http://weightology.n...age_id=260http:

Thanks for the link. I'll have to do some more research on this.... but

The term "gold standard" was meant in the context of readily available (not in Thailand), cost effective methods available to the public. For example the cost of a CAT scan would be prohibitive. What other methods can you suggest?

You can see in my post that I had 3 methods done in the same day (actually within an hour). DEXA and hydrostatic weighing were 1% different. The hydrostatic weighing had the problem that it is difficult to exhale all the air from your lungs while submerged in an awkward position under water - that would give a high reading.

My current DEXA reading is identical to a 7 - spot skin fold calculation.

My recollection of Hydrostatic testing was 3 separate immersions. Albeit that was 20 years ago. That accuarcy is close enough for me. You are 100% correct, the human lung cannot be completely emptied. My recollection also is that is taken into account.

[tropo]

My recollection of Hydrostatic testing was 3 separate immersions. Albeit that was 20 years ago. That accuarcy is close enough for me. You are 100% correct, the human lung cannot be completely emptied. My recollection also is that is taken into account.

Yes, they dunked me 3 times and took an average.