Diplomatically Confused About Thaksin? Let It Be

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STOPPAGE TIME

Diplomatically confused about Thaksin? Let it be

Tulsathit Taptim

It has been "From Cambodia with Love" for Thaksin Shinawatra.

THAILAND: -- The next episode, if all the whispers are any indication, will be "Britain, Here I Come." Or Manchester to be precise. Sports and politics can actually mix very nicely. While fans all over the world will be wondering which Manchester club will prevail in what could be their most crucial derby game ever on April 30 (UK time), one VIP's presence at the City of Manchester Stadium could send political and diplomatic ripples as far as Bangkok and Washington.

London has not said a word on Thaksin's possible visit to Manchester, and neither has the UK Embassy here. But after the likes of Japan, Germany, France and Russia welcomed him with varying degrees of open arms, it's now understood that Britain may get on the bandwagon. Although the shifts in international diplomacy, where Thaksin is concerned, fly in the face of his unchanged (at least for now) legal status, those countries can't be totally faulted. When Thailand's ruling party all but officially endorsed Thaksin's reunion with his red-shirt supporters in Laos and Cambodia over the weekend, foreign governments did not have many choices.

The man is giving diplomacy its biggest headache. Britain, for one, had sheltered him, allowed him to buy one of its biggest football clubs, then kicked him out, and now seems ready to open the door for him again. A diplomat of another country admitted that his government had to flip-flop on Thaksin, but "What else are we supposed to do?" Exactly. Political winds keep changing in Thailand. One Thai government wants him arrested, but another lobbies its foreign counterparts for the red carpet to be laid out for him.

There are also big business interests to worry about. Treating Thaksin like a criminal may be a virtue one minute and a sin (to be paid for in lost trade opportunities) the next. The US has been fortunate enough to be able to avoid the Thaksin dilemma, but his craving for international recognition to spite his political enemies will only get stronger, and he should be fluttering his eyelids at Washington soon. "New York, I Love You" may be already be on the cards.

Foreign leaders can find condolence in Snoh Thienthong. He is trapped in a cycle of loving, hating and loving Thaksin again. "My worst memory is going on stage once to raise his hand and proclaim him a hero," Snoh told a group of journalists when Thaksin's star was low. Over the weekend Snoh popped up to pay Thaksin homage. It was a travesty, Snoh declared, for a man who is welcomed anywhere else to not be able to return to his homeland.

Which brings us to probably the most intriguing of Thaksin's hosts. Hun Sen has been bold about the way he treats his exiled friend and Thailand, but the Cambodian prime minister may just be showing in a no-nonsense way that national interests come first. "Democracy", meanwhile, may be a nice word when you make a diplomatic stand, but that's all.

Thaksin's high-profile visit to Cambodia has failed to clear the air over two jailed Thai activists. He has admitted that Veera Somkwamkid and Ratree Pipattanapaibul were unlikely to be freed soon unless they confess their guilt. Thaksin stopped short of saying that Veera and Ratree, serving eight-year and six-year jail terms respectively after being convicted of encroaching into Cambodian territory, should make a confession. It would be ironic for Thaksin to make such a suggestion, having refused to admit his own "crimes" in Thailand himself.

Nobody knew for sure how serious Thaksin was in trying to persuade Phnom Penh to free the two Thais. Cynics may say it was an election promise and Thaksin needs to be seen as doing something. But even if Thaksin gave his all in negotiations, Hun Sen could not do things just for old time's sake. Having allowed Thaksin to meet his Thai supporters in a big event that mocked his legal predicament in Thailand, Hun Sen was not going to weaken his leverage when it came to territorial disputes between Bangkok and Phnom Penh.

Despite the Pheu Thai Party's rise to power and the consequent improvement in bilateral relations, the border conflict has not gone away. A big international showdown over the Preah Vihear Temple still awaits both governments, and when it comes to this issue, Hun Sen cannot compromise. Strange thing is, it's easier diplomacy for Hun Sen, because he and Cambodia have the same agenda on the temple. The Thai government, on the other hand, will find the issue far more complex, delicate and divisive.

Thaksin crooned "Let it be" for his Thai supporters in Cambodia the other day. He apparently meant to taunt his enemies in Thailand because his Thai translation of the song's title was "I don't give a damn about their mothers". The song could be a fitting message to everyone, every country, every government, every football club having to deal with the Thaksin complications. Let it be, because whether Mother Mary comes to you or not, he definitely will.

-- The Nation 2012-04-18

[yummypizza]

He will be back, people like him don't give up...

[Yunla]

There's no room for 'confusion'. He's a wolf. His followers are sheep. No wonder he's getting fat.

[AleG]

Despotic tendencies: check.

Cult of personality: check

Rule through family dinasty: check

Now what else is missing... oh yes! the shades!

[LucidLucifer]

No wonder he's getting fat.

I couldn't help thinking he was looking a bit thiner these days ......

[geriatrickid]

Finally the Nation has to admit that for years foreign governments did not consider Thaksin to be a criminal, but merely just another typical hi so Thai official, warts and all.

I recall that I went I pointed out that Mr. Thaksin was traveling the world without fear of arrest I was vilified. A Thaksin lover, a liar and all the usual nastiness the frothers dish out. The fact was that the rest of the world didn't care, and the man carried on waiting and planning his return. Foreign governments that understood Thai politics kinew that one day the phoenix would rise again. Rather intelligent positioning by the foreign governments. The ones who lost face were Abhisit and company when no one outside of Thailand paid attention to their feeble attempts to have him arrested.

Edited April 18, 2012 by geriatrickid

[americaninbangkok]

Interesting article. But let's not confuse diplomacy with respect/value. One country can treat the leaders of another diplomatically, but still completely disagree with their politics and philosophies. And that can have certain effects, such as: reduced military aid, unfavorable tariffs, restrictions on travel visas, etc. Much of the world has been dealing diplomatically but harshly with N Korea, Iran, Syria, and Pakistan.

Not that I'm likening Thaksin and his merry bunch of sheepmonkeys to Ahmajinedad or Kim Jong Un. But despite being accorded diplomatic courtesies, is Yingluck being taken seriously by her contemporaries in other countries? Why has Chalerm not dared to engage directly with foreign counterparts? And FM Surapong... if his primary responsibility is to address one domestic issue (grease skids for TS), then why have him lead the Foreign Ministry? Maybe he could manage Ministry of Culture. After all, I'm sure he would dress more appropriately for the photo on the website picturing YS's Cabinet (I'm not making this up!): http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/newscabinet.html

Minister of Culture Sukumol Kunplome

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Finally the Nation has to admit that for years foreign governments did not consider Thaksin to be a criminal, but merely just another typical hi so Thai official, warts and all.

To spin it a little bit - most foreign governments recognize that Thaksin is just another typically Thai criminal politician, and don't consider his crimes significant enough to get in the way of practical relations with whichever faction currently holds the power.

I think most Thais as well as foreigners accept that a politician needs to be bent in order to be effective in a system like Thailands. He doesn't even need to be able to hide it well, which is of course more necessary in less obviously corrupt systems back home.

Being the only sane man in the asylum doesn't mean the inmates let you be put in charge. . .

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Interesting article. But let's not confuse diplomacy with respect/value.

...

But despite being accorded diplomatic courtesies, is Yingluck being taken seriously by her contemporaries in other countries?

As seriously as needed for the context of the interaction.

But your larger point is a good one - Thaksin's government would be much more effective if he didn't need to run it by remote control from Dubai, and could deal directly with the important players rather than through his less competent proxies.

That is why "reconciliation" in the interest of Thailand being able to get back to business is defined as allowing him to return and continue to lead the country as the voters have expressed they desire.

The opposition needs to be willing to admit that in order to be allowed to govern next time 'round they need to convince the rural poor they will take their interests seriously.

[OzMick]

Interesting article. But let's not confuse diplomacy with respect/value.

...

But despite being accorded diplomatic courtesies, is Yingluck being taken seriously by her contemporaries in other countries?

As seriously as needed for the context of the interaction.

But your larger point is a good one - Thaksin's government would be much more effective if he didn't need to run it by remote control from Dubai, and could deal directly with the important players rather than through his less competent proxies.

That is why "reconciliation" in the interest of Thailand being able to get back to business is defined as allowing him ta o return and continue to lead the country as the voters have expressed they desire.

The opposition needs to be willing to admit that in order to be allowed to govern next time 'round they need to convince the rural poor they will take their interests seriously.

What Thaksin defines as getting back to business does not benefit Thailand. Keeping the fox out of the hen-house is a sound practice.

Recognise that foreign countries attitude to the man as nothing but pragmatism. If he was arrested at Immigration as a fugitive of Thai justice, who would they contact to arrange a pick-up - his sister, brother-in-law or cousin? Nepotism sucks, but here it is SOP.

[animatic]

The foreign governments just didn't want to get mixed up in Thai infighting so ignored it, except when given no choice. Don't confuse holding trouble farther than at arms length with a pole as agreement or backing. More like keeping the stench down wind and not dripping on your good shoes.

[lungmi]

Finally the Nation has to admit that for years foreign governments did not consider Thaksin to be a criminal, but merely just another typical hi so Thai official, warts and all.

I recall that I went I pointed out that Mr. Thaksin was traveling the world without fear of arrest I was vilified. A Thaksin lover, a liar and all the usual nastiness the frothers dish out. The fact was that the rest of the world didn't care, and the man carried on waiting and planning his return. Foreign governments that understood Thai politics kinew that one day the phoenix would rise again. Rather intelligent positioning by the foreign governments. The ones who lost face were Abhisit and company when no one outside of Thailand paid attention to their feeble attempts to have him arrested.

The phoenix rises again, Berlusconi thought he was a phoenix..

[hellodolly]

Interesting article. But let's not confuse diplomacy with respect/value.

...

But despite being accorded diplomatic courtesies, is Yingluck being taken seriously by her contemporaries in other countries?

As seriously as needed for the context of the interaction.

But your larger point is a good one - Thaksin's government would be much more effective if he didn't need to run it by remote control from Dubai, and could deal directly with the important players rather than through his less competent proxies.

That is why "reconciliation" in the interest of Thailand being able to get back to business is defined as allowing him to return and continue to lead the country as the voters have expressed they desire.

The opposition needs to be willing to admit that in order to be allowed to govern next time 'round they need to convince the rural poor they will take their interests seriously.

]Sorry you may have a short memory but I don't 52% of the voters did not want him back.

[anterian]

Just for the record Thaksin was not kicked out of the UK, he was simply denied entry whilst on a trip. However he still owns a large apartment in London and a nice country home just outside Guildford.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043785/Carefree-Fugitive-Thai-PM-Thaksin-Shinawatra-hits-shops-wife-children.html

[Buchholz]

Interesting article. But let's not confuse diplomacy with respect/value. One country can treat the leaders of another diplomatically, but still completely disagree with their politics and philosophies. And that can have certain effects, such as: reduced military aid, unfavorable tariffs, restrictions on travel visas, etc. Much of the world has been dealing diplomatically but harshly with N Korea, Iran, Syria, and Pakistan.

Not that I'm likening Thaksin and his merry bunch of sheepmonkeys to Ahmajinedad or Kim Jong Un. But despite being accorded diplomatic courtesies, is Yingluck being taken seriously by her contemporaries in other countries? Why has Chalerm not dared to engage directly with foreign counterparts? And FM Surapong... if his primary responsibility is to address one domestic issue (grease skids for TS), then why have him lead the Foreign Ministry? Maybe he could manage Ministry of Culture. After all, I'm sure he would dress more appropriately for the photo on the website picturing YS's Cabinet (I'm not making this up!): http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/newscabinet.html

Minister of Culture Sukumol Kunplome

^ wife of banned from politics for electoral fraud, former Thai Rak Thai Party MP and Thaksin Cabinet Minister Sonthaya Kunplome and daughter-in-law of fugitive convicted murderer and mafioso godfather Somchai Kunplome.

Absolutely correct about diplomacy and respect.

Any number of pariah despots have been allowed travel to 1st world nations, eg. Marcos, Shah of Iran, etc.

.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Just for the record Thaksin was not kicked out of the UK, he was simply denied entry whilst on a trip. However he still owns a large apartment in London and a nice country home just outside Guildford.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043785/Carefree-Fugitive-Thai-PM-Thaksin-Shinawatra-hits-shops-wife-children.html

Any update to that 4 year-old article? Does the Shin Clan still own those properties this long after his persona non grata status?

.

[anterian]

Just for the record Thaksin was not kicked out of the UK, he was simply denied entry whilst on a trip. However he still owns a large apartment in London and a nice country home just outside Guildford.

http://www.dailymail...e-children.html

Any update to that 4 year-old article? Does the Shin Clan still own those properties this long after his persona non grata status?

.

If I remember correctly the Guildford property is in his son/daughter's name, I actually know the place it is near my home in the UK (actually in the middle of a golf club ). But property ownership in the UK is not contingent on one's status in law, the government could only seize it on a court order to pay a debt. As far as I know he has no outstanding debts in the UK.

I would imagine the same applies to his properties in Hong Kong and the Balkans. In fact he has no criminal record in the UK, he could probably take his case to the EU court and get his persona non gratis status removed. Perhaps he already has.

[tukkytuktuk]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

[longtom]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

Self exile, that's a really good one

[geriatrickid]

Interesting article. But let's not confuse diplomacy with respect/value.

...

But despite being accorded diplomatic courtesies, is Yingluck being taken seriously by her contemporaries in other countries?

As seriously as needed for the context of the interaction.

But your larger point is a good one - Thaksin's government would be much more effective if he didn't need to run it by remote control from Dubai, and could deal directly with the important players rather than through his less competent proxies.

That is why "reconciliation" in the interest of Thailand being able to get back to business is defined as allowing him to return and continue to lead the country as the voters have expressed they desire.

The opposition needs to be willing to admit that in order to be allowed to govern next time 'round they need to convince the rural poor they will take their interests seriously.

As opposed to being remotely run by unelected military officers from their private golf clubs or lavish offices.

[KireB]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

You seem like a well informed person!

[MikeOboe57]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

Self exile, that's a really good one

"Ex-politician" and "poor chap" easily top that.

[hellodolly]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

Do your home work he is a mass murderer.

Are you trying to say that Hitler was not a mass murderer because people under his control did it not him.

Well that is what Thaksin did just a a lot smaller scale.

And if he was convicted it was because he was guilty.

What is the difference why he was charged.

The Judaical system takes on cases of criminality when it happens not because some politician dosen't like some thing.

[hellodolly]

Interesting article. But let's not confuse diplomacy with respect/value.

...

But despite being accorded diplomatic courtesies, is Yingluck being taken seriously by her contemporaries in other countries?

As seriously as needed for the context of the interaction.

But your larger point is a good one - Thaksin's government would be much more effective if he didn't need to run it by remote control from Dubai, and could deal directly with the important players rather than through his less competent proxies.

That is why "reconciliation" in the interest of Thailand being able to get back to business is defined as allowing him to return and continue to lead the country as the voters have expressed they desire.

The opposition needs to be willing to admit that in order to be allowed to govern next time 'round they need to convince the rural poor they will take their interests seriously.

As opposed to being remotely run by unelected military officers from their private golf clubs or lavish offices.

Can you provide the link for that. So far I have heard it from all the Thaksin lovers but not a word from them to back it up.

[Chupup]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

More Trolling.............................

[animatic]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

line one is the most accurate.

Even if the pre comma part is a group flame.

Edited April 19, 2012 by animatic

[OzMick]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

line one is the most accurate.

Even if the pre comma part is a group flame.

It's a bit hard for some to grasp, the reality of the situation. And they cling to the concept that democratic popularity should override the rule of law.

Perhaps I can explain it this way - 9/10 participants in a pack rape are strongly in favour of it, so democratically speaking it should be OK. Fortunately for the one, there are laws that override democratic principles to protect us. In this country, where the police who supposedly enforce this law are venal and subject to influence, there is an army that sometimes acts to correct obvious injustice.

[hyperdimension]

there is an army that sometimes acts to correct obvious injustice.

Historically, the military has had a chequered history. Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat was particularly a bad guy, comparable to Thaksin in his corrupt ways and uncouthness. He led a coup in 1957 to overthrow the government and then ruled the country until his death in 1963. It was then found that he had amassed assets worth over 140M USD over just 11 years, and had around 20 houses, some of which were given to his mistresses.

Hopefully these days the military are better-behaved, and that they are not taken over by Thaksin.

[louse1953]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

He is a mass murderer by default as you well know.

[maidu]

God you are pathetic you lot, you'd think you were talking about a mass murderer, a deranged terrorist or a cult member about to brain wash everybody. He's only a politician, or should I say ex politician in self exile over a politically motivated court decision to jail the poor chap.

'Mass murderer'? Maybe not directly, but he was PM and #1 'take charge' guy when both mass murders of young Muslim men took place in the south. Additionaly there are the 2,000 or so extra-judicial murders which were encouraged by T's quota system re; druggies.

'Deranged terrorist'? Perhaps not completely 'deranged,' but he did bankroll terrorist activities in Pattaya and Bangkok (2009) and again in Bangkok (2010).

'cult member about to brain wash everybody.' That fits, except replace the word 'member' with 'leader.'

'poor chap' ....not quite