How Strict Are The Working Laws Here

[NamKangMan]

@ HKP

There's a big difference between "living in fear" and "living legally" here.

Like you say, there are no guarantees, but I would say that one can at least minimise the risk of being fined/deported.

"when it comes to grey areas like that" - funny, I thought they were "rose coloured" areas. :)

"I personally wouldn't do it" - either would I, and I have stated my reasons, sure, they differ from yours, so what? The bottom line is we both wouldn't do it.

Once again, we all agree the risk is there, some are prepared to take the risk, some are not, but have we forgot about THE THAI LAW. Isn't that what this thread is all about? Officialy, what you can, and can not do. Is your advice to break the law because the chance of getting caught is slim????

Don't most members on TV want to live their life according to the laws of the land here? I know I don't need the grief of being arrested, fined and deported.

I bet you report/do your visa runs on time, or are visa laws not "100% cystal?" Or are visa laws, a "grey area" as well? Are you also adhering to the labour laws here? If so, great. If not, you run the risk of coming under notice and having some trouble. Each to their own, but at least you aknowledge their is some risk, even if it's "tiny" because you would be breaking the law.

I find it easy to live on Phuket. I have adapted and it all works well for me. I am doing exactly what the Thai's allow me to do, and that is I am spending my money here, and that's about all they'll let you do. :) :)

Of course, they would really just like my money here, and not me here, but they are slowly learning that's impossible.

[NamKangMan]

I'm having a BBQ later. One of my guests is a chef. Is it ok for him to flip burgers on my BBQ at my house, or not?

By the way this thread is going, it would be fine for him to entertain us all to a gourmet meal at HIS house, but not to flip burgers (or mow the lawn/service my motorbike) when at my house.

All a bit silly really.

Common sense = yes it's OK.

Please quote any stated laws to back up your statement.

[NamKangMan]

Didn't want to start a new thread for something so unimportant, but for a couple of days I've had no members names at the bottom of my screen, is that the same for everyone or just me?

If who ever decides to slag my post off first could answer that while they are at it, I would be grateful.

Same with me, but it has been on and off, but mostly off. As I type this reply, it's off.

Edited April 19, 2012 by LivinginKata
inflammatory remark removed

[FlyByNights]

My perspective is that it all depends who is around you, and also like one of the members said above, it's basically who you piss off.

I’ve seen it boil down to jealousy and greed a majority of the time.

If you are working and generating any type of "income" while "living" here in Thailand, it's always best to have all your documentation in order.

And if you’re doing life's everyday routines, just like all other cultures, washing the dishes, pulling weeds, taking out the trash, or even sweeping your own floor, this is not going to get you busted by the tourist police or any type of immigration officials.

They should be ashamed of themselves if they if they were to come challenge you in your own home!

If you are living at your place of business, and actually generating income while you are there by providing some type of service or "help" without proper documentation, you will get in trouble if they catch you. Behind the bar is a big one around these parts

Keep it simple, if you want to work get your crap together, and make sure you do what the law requires .Get your work permits visas, and licenses in order

If you do happen to get in trouble, better have a good phone number of an intelligent Thai friend that can vouch for your actions, and also a little bit of cash set aside.

BTW: It will help greatly if this Thai friend wasn’t bar related, regardless if it’s your girlfriend or not.

Be aware of your surroundings at all times, and try to be a good Farang.

I agree with what you are writing but sometimes it is not that simple,If,for example,your wife has some kind of farming,be it rubbertrees,sugarcane,rice or whatever,and it is difficult to find labourers and/ or the plot is not all that big,she has to do the work herself,right,while you just sit on the sideline,drinking a beer.(Well,not neceserily..) My serious question to you,who seems to have some grip on this matter,is whether you think you can get a workpermit to help her?! Anyone out there,any experience of something like that.And a follow-up question,if the answer is yes,or probably,what about your current "non imm O visa,retirement",do workpermit go alongside thar onè?

.

Your visa is exclusively linked to your work permit. To help someone to do something can be considered work. If you help her for profit, then you are in breach of your non Imm O visa. Unfortunately legal speaking, you cannot help her.

You need to consider your surroundings as mentioned, do the neighbors know you ? Do you live on the plot yourself fulltime? What have you contributed to your local area? Don’t do something you have to question yourself about and not feel comfortable doing it, especially here in Thailand.

The only hassle way free to work is to become a Thai citizen. This is not an easy task, but for those who which to make Thailand their country, this is the best route to go. You can start this process now with your residency permit if you have it.

Here is a very impressive post to read if interested.

Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai-citizenship-application/

[Bosse137]

I meant to be done with this thread,but the talk about "common sense" brings me back. There are very different ideas regarding what is meant by this expression.I am certain,that everybody,who has lived here some time knows,that many Thais have their own version.E.g.,put PVC waterpipes 5 cm under the surface,so it gets run over and broke again and again,the way electricity is handled,even by authorities and so on.I for one have no desire to "adapt" to that when I do things! And regarding mowing your own lawn;has it occured to anyone,that perhaps it is not about money,but that some people,my self included,actually like to do these things!I Not everybody is a golffan or is happy to spend his day at the bar,some people like to be hands on taking care of things themselves.I´m not telling others how to spend their time,just want to point out,that there are different ideas about it,each to his own.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Bosse137

[Bosse137]

My perspective is that it all depends who is around you, and also like one of the members said above, it's basically who you piss off.

I’ve seen it boil down to jealousy and greed a majority of the time.

If you are working and generating any type of "income" while "living" here in Thailand, it's always best to have all your documentation in order.

And if you’re doing life's everyday routines, just like all other cultures, washing the dishes, pulling weeds, taking out the trash, or even sweeping your own floor, this is not going to get you busted by the tourist police or any type of immigration officials.

They should be ashamed of themselves if they if they were to come challenge you in your own home!

If you are living at your place of business, and actually generating income while you are there by providing some type of service or "help" without proper documentation, you will get in trouble if they catch you. Behind the bar is a big one around these parts

Keep it simple, if you want to work get your crap together, and make sure you do what the law requires .Get your work permits visas, and licenses in order

If you do happen to get in trouble, better have a good phone number of an intelligent Thai friend that can vouch for your actions, and also a little bit of cash set aside.

BTW: It will help greatly if this Thai friend wasn’t bar related, regardless if it’s your girlfriend or not.

Be aware of your surroundings at all times, and try to be a good Farang.

I agree with what you are writing but sometimes it is not that simple,If,for example,your wife has some kind of farming,be it rubbertrees,sugarcane,rice or whatever,and it is difficult to find labourers and/ or the plot is not all that big,she has to do the work herself,right,while you just sit on the sideline,drinking a beer.(Well,not neceserily..) My serious question to you,who seems to have some grip on this matter,is whether you think you can get a workpermit to help her?! Anyone out there,any experience of something like that.And a follow-up question,if the answer is yes,or probably,what about your current "non imm O visa,retirement",do workpermit go alongside thar onè?

.

Your visa is exclusively linked to your work permit. To help someone to do something can be considered work. If you help her for profit, then you are in breach of your non Imm O visa. Unfortunately legal speaking, you cannot help her.

You need to consider your surroundings as mentioned, do the neighbors know you ? Do you live on the plot yourself fulltime? What have you contributed to your local area? Don’t do something you have to question yourself about and not feel comfortable doing it, especially here in Thailand.

The only hassle way free to work is to become a Thai citizen. This is not an easy task, but for those who which to make Thailand their country, this is the best route to go. You can start this process now with your residency permit if you have it.

Here is a very impressive post to read if interested.

Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai-citizenship-application/

Thanks again! About Thai citizenchip,I already checked it out,and there are too many stumbelblocks for an old guy like me,language wise and economywise,to mention some.Most interesting to me was to hopefully get an adequat answer to the question:What are the most likely consequensis if somebody get caught.? Got some hints,and have to be satisfied with that.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Bosse137

[NamKangMan]

This link may be of interest to some. Scroll down past all the laws and regulations and get to the list of occupations that are prohibited for foreigners in Thialand. There are some weird occupations in the list that I don't think a foreigner would even attempt to do.

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/Laws/foreign-employment-working-of-aliens-act.html

[HongKongPhooey]

Once again, we all agree the risk is there, some are prepared to take the risk, some are not, but have we forgot about THE THAI LAW. Isn't that what this thread is all about? Officialy, what you can, and can not do. Is your advice to break the law because the chance of getting caught is slim????

Don't most members on TV want to live their life according to the laws of the land here? I know I don't need the grief of being arrested, fined and deported.

I bet you report/do your visa runs on time, or are visa laws not "100% cystal?" Or are visa laws, a "grey area" as well? Are you also adhering to the labour laws here? If so, great. If not, you run the risk of coming under notice and having some trouble. Each to their own, but at least you aknowledge their is some risk, even if it's "tiny" because you would be breaking the law.

What you have always refused to understand or accept is how fundamentally different somewhere like Phuket is to Western, supposedly fully developed countries. You talk about 'THE THAI LAW' as if it is 100% crystal clear and 100% enforced routinely and uniformly day in day out. That simply isn't how things work. You could have the Thai law tattooed on your butt cheek ready to show someone who was accusing you of breaking it and it wouldn't make a difference. If you upset the wrong person, it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely) that an envelope could be put in the pocket of someone with power and you could be on the next plane home. This could happen regardless of whether you were actually breaking the law and regardless of the fact that every body around you is doing the exact same thing without reprisal.

I stress I believe the chances of this are remote to say the least but it has happened. The point is what the law is or isn't, is to a certain degree irrelevant and can not be the only thing you use to decide what is or isn't appropriate behaviour. Which is why when 'Stevenl' gave the reply 'Yes, you can mow your own lawn, no problem. Yes, you can mow your friend's lawn, but you do run a (small) risk.' it was a perfect reply that said everything you could possibly need to know. Your talk of what 'the Thai law' is, when it comes to this matter is irrelevant as it can be interpreted differently by one person to the next from one day to the next. That is what I mean when I talk about adapting to life in Phuket, not thinking the letter of the law means the same as it does back home.

To answer your question, yes I do make sure my passport is in order as far as visa runs is concerned. You would have to be a moron not to. No the law isn't grey but how you could be dealt with probably is. It wouldn't surprise me if the exact same infringement has been dealt with in several different ways by different people on different days. Is that a risk I am prepared to take? No it isn't.

I find it easy to live on Phuket. I have adapted and it all works well for me. I am doing exactly what the Thai's allow me to do, and that is I am spending my money here, and that's about all they'll let you do.

That's where me and you differ. I do exactly what I want to do on Phuket where as you only do what you feel you are being allowed to do, implying there is lots of things you would like to do but can't. To me that comes back to the same old argument that I'm very fond of, of choosing the right place to live that suits your needs. It seems like in this case it's laws that can be flexible and manipulated and applied differently from one day to the next that doesn't sit right with you. Yesterday it was something else, tomorrow it will be something else again. That's Phuket for you, take it or leave it.

[HongKongPhooey]

I meant to be done with this thread,but the talk about "common sense" brings me back. There are very different ideas regarding what is meant by this expression.I am certain,that everybody,who has lived here some time knows,that many Thais have their own version.E.g.,put PVC waterpipes 5 cm under the surface,so it gets run over and broke again and again,the way electricity is handled,even by authorities and so on.I for one have no desire to "adapt" to that when I do things! And regarding mowing your own lawn;has it occured to anyone,that perhaps it is not about money,but that some people,my self included,actually like to do these things!I Not everybody is a golffan or is happy to spend his day at the bar,some people like to be hands on taking care of things themselves.I´m not telling others how to spend their time,just want to point out,that there are different ideas about it,each to his own.

No one is suggesting you 'adapt' to the Thai way of doing things in your everyday life. If you're building your own house then you can use what ever pipes you want and put them as deep as your heart desires.

The point is, to use your own example, if you kept tripping over pipes that weren't deep enough then common sense would tell you to be more careful where you were walking so as not to trip over them any more. That would be adapting. Moaning about the pipes not being deep enough while continuing to trip over them regularly would show a lack of common sense and a failure to adapt to the way things are.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that you may want to mow your own lawn and paint your own fence. If you read the thread you will see that everybody is saying that doing so isn't a problem.

[HongKongPhooey]

I'm having a BBQ later. One of my guests is a chef. Is it ok for him to flip burgers on my BBQ at my house, or not?

By the way this thread is going, it would be fine for him to entertain us all to a gourmet meal at HIS house, but not to flip burgers (or mow the lawn/service my motorbike) when at my house.

All a bit silly really.

Common sense = yes it's OK.

Please quote any stated laws to back up your statement.

As per my above post, I don't live my life by the letter of the law. I like to know what the law is but I will always interpret it how I see fit with my own level of risk factored in. I used to drive without a seat belt, a bad habit I finally weaned myself off, (most of the time) but when I did, did I fear deportation if I was caught? Of course I didn't, so I was breaking the law having assessed the probability of the consequences if I were caught.

My reply was that common sense = yes it's OK, where did I mention the letter of the law?

[Shot]

HKP

“It must be horrible to live your life in such fear, hiding behind the sofa every day!”

HKP

“If you upset the wrong person, it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely) that an envelope could be put in the pocket of someone with power and you could be on the next plane home.”

Anything behind your sofa?

[HongKongPhooey]

^ Sorry don't follow as is often the case with your posts. I prefer the ones where you just post a funny picture, I understand those ones.

I said it was possible (which we all know it is because it's happened before) but I said it was highly unlikely. How from that have you deemed me to be living in fear?

[NamKangMan]

Once again, we all agree the risk is there, some are prepared to take the risk, some are not, but have we forgot about THE THAI LAW. Isn't that what this thread is all about? Officialy, what you can, and can not do. Is your advice to break the law because the chance of getting caught is slim????

Don't most members on TV want to live their life according to the laws of the land here? I know I don't need the grief of being arrested, fined and deported.

I bet you report/do your visa runs on time, or are visa laws not "100% cystal?" Or are visa laws, a "grey area" as well? Are you also adhering to the labour laws here? If so, great. If not, you run the risk of coming under notice and having some trouble. Each to their own, but at least you aknowledge their is some risk, even if it's "tiny" because you would be breaking the law.

What you have always refused to understand or accept is how fundamentally different somewhere like Phuket is to Western, supposedly fully developed countries. You talk about 'THE THAI LAW' as if it is 100% crystal clear and 100% enforced routinely and uniformly day in day out. That simply isn't how things work. You could have the Thai law tattooed on your butt cheek ready to show someone who was accusing you of breaking it and it wouldn't make a difference. If you upset the wrong person, it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely) that an envelope could be put in the pocket of someone with power and you could be on the next plane home. This could happen regardless of whether you were actually breaking the law and regardless of the fact that every body around you is doing the exact same thing without reprisal.

I stress I believe the chances of this are remote to say the least but it has happened. The point is what the law is or isn't, is to a certain degree irrelevant and can not be the only thing you use to decide what is or isn't appropriate behaviour. Which is why when 'Stevenl' gave the reply 'Yes, you can mow your own lawn, no problem. Yes, you can mow your friend's lawn, but you do run a (small) risk.' it was a perfect reply that said everything you could possibly need to know. Your talk of what 'the Thai law' is, when it comes to this matter is irrelevant as it can be interpreted differently by one person to the next from one day to the next. That is what I mean when I talk about adapting to life in Phuket, not thinking the letter of the law means the same as it does back home.

To answer your question, yes I do make sure my passport is in order as far as visa runs is concerned. You would have to be a moron not to. No the law isn't grey but how you could be dealt with probably is. It wouldn't surprise me if the exact same infringement has been dealt with in several different ways by different people on different days. Is that a risk I am prepared to take? No it isn't.

I find it easy to live on Phuket. I have adapted and it all works well for me. I am doing exactly what the Thai's allow me to do, and that is I am spending my money here, and that's about all they'll let you do.

That's where me and you differ. I do exactly what I want to do on Phuket where as you only do what you feel you are being allowed to do, implying there is lots of things you would like to do but can't. To me that comes back to the same old argument that I'm very fond of, of choosing the right place to live that suits your needs. It seems like in this case it's laws that can be flexible and manipulated and applied differently from one day to the next that doesn't sit right with you. Yesterday it was something else, tomorrow it will be something else again. That's Phuket for you, take it or leave it.

Talk about contradictions, great post.

You describe Phuket as being lawless with little chance of getting caught for breaking labour laws, but then go on to say how your passport is in order and say you would have to be a mornon not to have it in order.

Gee, why don't you just get behind a bar and start serving beer then? :) There's only a "tiny" risk of getting caught. :) How long do you think you would last before being arrested?

Why don't you accept that many here abide by the labour laws in the same way you abide by the visa laws. It's not a hard concept. Obey the laws to minimise your chances of coming under any adverse attention from authorities and kick back and have a great time here.

[HongKongPhooey]

Talk about contradictions, great post.

You describe Phuket as being lawless with little chance of getting caught for breaking labour laws, but then go on to say how your passport is in order and say you would have to be a mornon not to have it in order.

Gee, why don't you just get behind a bar and start serving beer then? There's only a "tiny" risk of getting caught. How long do you think you would last before being arrested?

Why don't you accept that many here abide by the labour laws in the same way you abide by the visa laws. It's not a hard concept. Obey the laws to minimise your chances of coming under any adverse attention from authorities and kick back and have a great time here.

WHERE?

Where did I say Phuket was lawless?

Where did I say there's a little chance of getting caught for breaking labour laws?

Where did I say that I didn't abide by the labour laws as well as the visa laws?

Where did I say the risk of being caught if working behind a bar was tiny?

Sorry mate, you're gonna have to find yourself a new friend, not playing the Benny Hill, chase you around in circles game today. I used to think you were good at discussing things like an adult but have since realised otherwise. Learn to reply to what's been said and not what you have dreamt up.

[NamKangMan]

I meant to be done with this thread,but the talk about "common sense" brings me back. There are very different ideas regarding what is meant by this expression.I am certain,that everybody,who has lived here some time knows,that many Thais have their own version.E.g.,put PVC waterpipes 5 cm under the surface,so it gets run over and broke again and again,the way electricity is handled,even by authorities and so on.I for one have no desire to "adapt" to that when I do things! And regarding mowing your own lawn;has it occured to anyone,that perhaps it is not about money,but that some people,my self included,actually like to do these things!I Not everybody is a golffan or is happy to spend his day at the bar,some people like to be hands on taking care of things themselves.I´m not telling others how to spend their time,just want to point out,that there are different ideas about it,each to his own.

No one is suggesting you 'adapt' to the Thai way of doing things in your everyday life. If you're building your own house then you can use what ever pipes you want and put them as deep as your heart desires.

The point is, to use your own example, if you kept tripping over pipes that weren't deep enough then common sense would tell you to be more careful where you were walking so as not to trip over them any more. That would be adapting. Moaning about the pipes not being deep enough while continuing to trip over them regularly would show a lack of common sense and a failure to adapt to the way things are.

Nobody is disagreeing with you that you may want to mow your own lawn and paint your own fence. If you read the thread you will see that everybody is saying that doing so isn't a problem.

I have asked you to back-up your "so isn't problem" comments with some evidence. As usual, you just revert back to your old "you should leave" and "you moan about Phuket" and "you haven't adapted to living here" blah blah blah.

Your advice to go ahead and perform certain tasks needs to be clarified and the risks involved needs to be stated. Firstly, construction, carpentry etc is an occupation on the prohibited list.

I am simply asking for clarification, at Thai law, if you are legal to, for example, tile your own bathroom, if you are a tiler by trade, or is all contruction prohibited for foreigners, even on their own property? If so, is it good advice to tell people on this forum, "It's illegal, but do it anyway because there is only a tiny chance of getting caught?" Sure, a slim chance of getting caught - I'm asking if it is legal or illegal.

In your own words, "I stress I believe the chances of this are remote to say the least but it has happened." - yes, people have been caught.

Once again, in your own words, "it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely) that an envelope could be put in the pocket of someone with power and you could be on the next plane home" - I agree, feasible, but unlikely, BUT it has happened. Why take the risk????

Edited April 19, 2012 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

I'm having a BBQ later. One of my guests is a chef. Is it ok for him to flip burgers on my BBQ at my house, or not?

By the way this thread is going, it would be fine for him to entertain us all to a gourmet meal at HIS house, but not to flip burgers (or mow the lawn/service my motorbike) when at my house.

All a bit silly really.

Common sense = yes it's OK.

Please quote any stated laws to back up your statement.

As per my above post, I don't live my life by the letter of the law. I like to know what the law is but I will always interpret it how I see fit with my own level of risk factored in. I used to drive without a seat belt, a bad habit I finally weaned myself off, (most of the time) but when I did, did I fear deportation if I was caught? Of course I didn't, so I was breaking the law having assessed the probability of the consequences if I were caught.

My reply was that common sense = yes it's OK, where did I mention the letter of the law?

"I don't live my life by the letter of the law." Really? Let's see, "yes I do make sure my passport is in order as far as visa runs is concerned. You would have to be a moron not to." Seems like you do live your life by the letter of the law.

"I will always interpret it how I see fit" - I think you need a work permit to be a judge in Thailand and interpret the law.

Edited April 19, 2012 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

HKP

“It must be horrible to live your life in such fear, hiding behind the sofa every day!”

HKP

“If you upset the wrong person, it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely) that an envelope could be put in the pocket of someone with power and you could be on the next plane home.”

Anything behind your sofa?

Yeh, Benny Hill. :) :)

[HongKongPhooey]

So just to clarify, you don't have any answer to the 4 questions I just asked you. So you are confirming that all the things you accused me of saying were never said?

I have asked you to back-up your "so isn't problem" comments with some evidence. As usual, you just revert back to your old "you should leave" and "you moan about Phuket" and "you haven't adapted to living here" blah blah blah.

I have no idea what 'So isn't problem' comment you are referring to. If it's the one where I agreed with mowing your own lawn isn't a problem, then yeas I stand by it. To quote you. Please show me proof of a law that says mowing your own law is illegal.

Your advice to go ahead and perform certain tasks needs to be clarify and the risks involved needs to be stated. Firstly, construction, carpentry etc is an occupation on the prohibited list.

What advice? When have I told anybody to do anything? I said people should use their common sense and do what they believe falls inside the boundaries of the risks they are prepared to take. I have said the Thai law can be manipulated and enforced irregularly and this should be taken in to account. I have pointed out that you wanting to know the exact letter of the law isn't helpful because the law isn't regarded in the same way it is in other countries. Please show me where I have told anyone to go ahead and perform anything other than mow their own lawn.

I am simply asking for clarification, at Thai law, if you are legal to, for example, tile your own bathroom, if you are a tiler by trade, or is all contruction prohibited for foreigners, even on their own property? If so, is it good advice to tell people on this forum, "It's illegal, but do it anyway because there is only a tiny chance of getting caught?" Sure, a slim chance of getting caught - I'm asking if it is legal or illegal.

It was YOU who provided the link to the list of jobs on the prohibited list!! So why are you asking what is and isn't legal when you've provided the information already!

In your own words, "I stress I believe the chances of this are remote to say the least but it has happened." - yes, people have been caught.

Once again, in your own words, "it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely) that an envelope could be put in the pocket of someone with power and you could be on the next plane home" - I agree, feasible, but unlikely, BUT it has happened. Why take the risk????

Well there's your answer then. Don't take the risk if you don't want to. We all have the list, we all know what Phuket is like so we can all make our own decisions, what exactly are you getting at? You want to be patted on the head and told this will never happen and you can 100% do that and if you do that you will be 100% safe from being in trouble. PHUKET DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT!!! Thai law doesn't always work like that. You want to hear things that can't be said and you want things to be how they aren't, hence your constant disappointment.

[HongKongPhooey]

"I don't live my life by the letter of the law." Really? Let's see, "yes I do make sure my passport is in order as far as visa runs is concerned. You would have to be a moron not to." Seems like you do live your life by the letter of the law.

"I will always interpret it how I see fit" - I think you need a work permit to be a judge in Thailand and interpret the law.

I follow the visa rules because I believe it's in MY best interest not just because it's the law. When I drove without a seat belt or for several years without a valid license, I was breaking the law because I was happy to do so because I didn't fear the consequences.

How does providing one example of where I said I do follow the law closely give you an argument that I live my life by the letter of the law in general? You don't have a single ounce of logic or maturity in any of your posts!

[HongKongPhooey]

HKP

“It must be horrible to live your life in such fear, hiding behind the sofa every day!”

HKP

“If you upset the wrong person, it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely) that an envelope could be put in the pocket of someone with power and you could be on the next plane home.”

Anything behind your sofa?

Yeh, Benny Hill.

Like most posters who make posts like that, I very much doubt 'Shot' will be back to explain or elaborate. Feel free to try and explain the connection on his behalf.

[Bosse137]

HongKongPhony:I agree with most of what you write,among other things that it is not so much what the law says,but who interprete it.In short,the person in power is the law.But that does not mean,that you do not need to be a bit careful;you do not want to stick out like a sour thumb..Regarding my exampel with PVC pipes;I do not trip over dem,especially as they lie 5cm deep.My point was meant to be,that what in your eyes is common sence,can be seen as very stupid in a Thaipersons eyes.E,g.,in my first year here in the village,the klong was blocked by some shit,water floated over the road and it was a real mess.Well,my common sence told me to clear that up,easy done in 5 minutes.My gf was angry,telleing me,that I had made a fool of myself.Why? Because according to her`s and others common sence,the road was not owned by the villagers,consequently did they not have to care about it..What promted me to tell,that some people like to mow their own lawn,was what you wrote at the end of post 56 ;that people coming here should afford to pay for it,and thereby contribute to the local economi.As I said,nothing to do with affording or not!

[Bosse137]

It may be the case,that a sour thumb sticks out,but I meant to write "sore" thumb..(To late to edit)

[petercallen]

The Mrs did the brush-cutting and i picked up the rubbish thrown on the road verge

by passing cars and bikes, i do not think they would worry you about that as

no one picks up rubbish they just throw it away everywhere and not only Thais

[HongKongPhooey]

HongKongPhony:I agree with most of what you write,among other things that it is not so much what the law says,but who interprete it.In short,the person in power is the law.But that does not mean,that you do not need to be a bit careful;you do not want to stick out like a sour thumb..Regarding my exampel with PVC pipes;I do not trip over dem,especially as they lie 5cm deep.My point was meant to be,that what in your eyes is common sence,can be seen as very stupid in a Thaipersons eyes.E,g.,in my first year here in the village,the klong was blocked by some shit,water floated over the road and it was a real mess.Well,my common sence told me to clear that up,easy done in 5 minutes.My gf was angry,telleing me,that I had made a fool of myself.Why? Because according to her`s and others common sence,the road was not owned by the villagers,consequently did they not have to care about it..What promted me to tell,that some people like to mow their own lawn,was what you wrote at the end of post 56 ;that people coming here should afford to pay for it,and thereby contribute to the local economi.As I said,nothing to do with affording or not!

I understand what you are saying and I realised that you didn't actually trip over the pipes, I was just using your example as an example.

I'm not suggesting you should copy the logic or common sense the Thai people have. We all know that Thai people have a different way of looking at things and for the best part a completely different sense of logic. I was suggesting that we need to use our own logic and common sense but taking in to consideration where we are. In other words we shouldn't be trying to apply common sense that would work in our home country because we are not in our home country. We need to use our common sense but adapted to our surroundings.

I completely understand how you would want to clean the shit water but perhaps you should have been more in tune with what the locals would want. Perhaps they didn't want a farang cleaning their road. There's thousands of them but only one of you, does it make more sense to do what you think is right or what they think is right?

As far as mowing the lawn, I fully understand how someone may want to mow their own lawn. If I thought I could get in trouble mowing my own lawn I would pack up my things and never see Phuket again. Of course people should want to mow their own lawn and of course they are allowed to.

I was responding to 'NKM's example of cutting the lawn for his friend who is too old and infirm to do it himself. I said if you aren't able to cut your own lawn then you should employ a local to do it for you, not ask a Farang friend to do it for free. If you retire in a country like Thailand I think you should be able to afford top pay for those services and I believe that is exactly why the laws are strict as they are and I believe along with the strict land ownership laws that it is the best thing Thais could ever have done for themselves. The only reason people don't like those laws is because it doesn't suit them! It was only 'NKM' trying to find problems where there aren't any again anyway. His friend lives in a codo and doesn't even have any grass!! It was purely hypothetical.

Where would it end? You have Farang cutting each others grass one day, the next they're cutting each others hair, fixing each others cars, fitting each others bathrooms. Why would and should Thai people cut their own throats by allowing such things to happen.

Except for the mentalness of not allowing people to help after the tsunami, I believe the Thais have the labour laws pretty spot on. You can do everything you would normally want to do in your everyday life, everything else you have to pay (a pittance) to have it done for you. Use your common sense and you will never fall foul of these laws.

[Bosse137]

HongKongPooey: OK.get you! We have about the same view on those things,now after you defined what you mean by "common sence".Likewise with the other subjects.Though,a little correction regarding being in tune with what the locals want.Actually,they do not mind at all,on the contrary,with me helping them! If I paved the road for them,singelhanded,they would be alated! But,they would think I am a crazy fool to spend time,money and work on something,that does not belong to me...Bye the way,that was many years ago.Today,this road is worse than ever,more like a pool at places,because nobody wants to do something for the common good.They all order clay to put outside their house,and this grow higher and higher each year.They could have digged a klong,100 meter long,which would have taken care of the problem,but no way! I must add,that I moved away from that road a long time ago...

[PattayaPhom]

Anyone that smokes rollies is up for deportation acording to the prohibited ocupations list....be careful buyng your Rizlas, the labour office may be spying on the nasty foreigner trying to put a Thai out of work buy making his own ciggies..

Edited April 20, 2012 by PattayaPhom

[HongKongPhooey]

Though,a little correction regarding being in tune with what the locals want.Actually,they do not mind at all,on the contrary,with me helping them! If I paved the road for them,singelhanded,they would be alated! But,they would think I am a crazy fool to spend time,money and work on something,that does not belong to me...

Oh I see what you mean. They weren't angry just couldn't understand why you would want to do it. For me, that difference in logic is all part of the fun and challenge of living in a foreign country. We laugh at Thais for their strange logic and they're doing the exact same about us. As long as we resist the temptation to feel so superior as so many people do then it's all good.

It seems like the OP used his common sense and decided what he was comfortable doing. Does it mean to say that he could never get in to trouble doing what he did? No I don't think it does, but it is highly unlikely and obviously a risk he was prepared to take.

[Shot]

HKP

“It must be horrible to live your life in such fear, hiding behind the sofa every day!”

HKP

“If you upset the wrong person, it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely) that an envelope could be put in the pocket of someone with power and you could be on the next plane home.”

Anything behind your sofa?

Yeh, Benny Hill.

Like most posters who make posts like that, I very much doubt 'Shot' will be back to explain or elaborate. Feel free to try and explain the connection on his behalf.

I found it interesting, you concluded people were hiding behind there sofa, when posters were simply asking questions about something they don’t understand.

And, I giggled a bit at “it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely).

I thought my comment was funny. But, if you like, I can come up with an equally funny picture.

[HongKongPhooey]

I found it interesting, you concluded people were hiding behind there sofa, when posters were simply asking questions about something they don’t understand.

What posters what people? I was talking to one person in particular and my comment was based on his 900 and something posts. Why have you turned that in to me addressing people and posters plural?

And, I giggled a bit at “it his highly feasible (although highly unlikely).

Obviously I should have used the word possible instead of feasible. Glad that mad you giggle. Must be lovely to be so easily pleased.

I thought my comment was funny. But, if you like, I can come up with an equally funny picture.

Yes please.

[Dap]

For what it may be worth to anyone interested, the Work Permit Application here in Thailand defines "Work".

"Work" means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of

wages or other benefits".

Common sense would dictate that any work around one's home within the confines of that property should

allow for you or I to take care of that personal business, ie; mowing one's lawn, cleaning the house, etc, but strictly speaking, as I understand it, any work that can be done by a Thai is unlawful for us to pursue.