Having A Thai/Irish Child.

[strollling]

A child born in Thailand to an Irish father and Thai mother.

What rights do they have to live and study in Ireland at a future date, and also re: welfare and health care should they need it in the future?

Can they get an Irish passport and also hold a Thai ID card, allowing them to own land etc. in Thailand?

Now... if the child is born in Ireland, to an Irish father and a Thai mother? As the mother is a non EU citizen what welfare and benefits are available from the Irish government for mother/child, if living in Ireland? If living in Thailand? Are they still eligible for a Thai ID card as well as their Irish passport?

Thanks in advance.

[Orac]

Not sure on Ireland but for the UK it is fairly straight forward if the parents are legally married and slightly more complicated if not though requiring benefits would make getting a visa for the mother difficult.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Orac

[paddy]

Firstly, the child is entitled to an Irish Passport / citizenship as his / her father is an Irish national. As such, once this has been properly applied for and granted, the child can live / study / work in Ireland as any other Irish citizen would, including all the welfare and medical benefits (not much now....) that citizenship would provide. Pls note the father must ensure that his name is stated on the Thai birth certificate.

With respect to the mother having the same priviledges as the child, that would not be the case unless the mother was to apply for a visa to stay in Ireland on the basis of being with her child (once the child has been granted citizenship) and staying for the required period of time that would allow her gain Irish citizenship, I think its currently four years.

Hope this helps. Paddy

Edited April 18, 2012 by paddy

[beano2274]

I thought it depended on whether the father was actually born in Ireland, if so then okay, but if the father was born outside Ireland then more difficult.

[strollling]

^ It does, thanks.

I'll be researching it more, but interesting so far. Thanks.

[paddy]

Sorry I was basing my reply on the basis the father was born in Ireland.

[paddy]

Forgot to add, my Thai / Irish son has both an Iirsh passport / citizenship and also a Thai id.

[beano2274]

Sorry I was basing my reply on the basis the father was born in Ireland.

that is the problem, we do not know if the father was or wasn't born in Ireland so both our answers are correct dependent on the birth place of the father.

[strollling]

Father born in Ireland.

Marriage registered in Thailand. So far not registered in Ireland.

From what I see there is no advantage of the birth of the child being in Ireland, other than if the Thai mother is going to live there for four years (?) in order to gain citizenship. In which case she will be eligible for welfare payments.

One aspect I was interested in, is that as a legally single Irish father (if the marriage isn't registered in Ireland), if I have a child in Ireland... are single Irish fathers with a child eligible for anything?

Thanks.

[beano2274]

The marriage is recognised in Ireland if registered at the Amphur.

Edited April 18, 2012 by beano2274

[beano2274]

Father born in Ireland.

Marriage registered in Thailand. So far not registered in Ireland.

From what I see there is no advantage of the birth of the child being in Ireland, other than if the Thai mother is going to live there for four years (?) in order to gain citizenship. In which case she will be eligible for welfare payments.

One aspect I was interested in, is that as a legally single Irish father (if the marriage isn't registered in Ireland), if I have a child in Ireland... are single Irish fathers with a child eligible for anything?

Thanks.

How would the mother stay there? The Entry officer at the Embassy might think you are going to take your wife to Ireland to get her to have the baby there, and use the baby to keep her in Ireland knowing that a mother and child cannot be parted by Immigration.

[strollling]

The marriage is recognised in Ireland if registered at the Amphur.

recognised? please explain, as it is obviously different to being registered.

[strollling]

Father born in Ireland.

Marriage registered in Thailand. So far not registered in Ireland.

From what I see there is no advantage of the birth of the child being in Ireland, other than if the Thai mother is going to live there for four years (?) in order to gain citizenship. In which case she will be eligible for welfare payments.

One aspect I was interested in, is that as a legally single Irish father (if the marriage isn't registered in Ireland), if I have a child in Ireland... are single Irish fathers with a child eligible for anything?

Thanks.

How would the mother stay there?

She/We wouldn't be.

[IMA_FARANG]

Not sure about the Irish side, but just based on the Thai parent the child is a Thai national and is entitled to Thai I.D. card and Thai passport.

My guess is that Ireland probably has a dual nationality agreement....and therefore based on an Irish father the child also has a right to an Irish passport.

Check with the Irish embessy about that.

It would be wise to register the child with the Irish embessy as your child...probably need a trabslated copy of the Thai birth certificate with you listed as child's father on it.

The child may never want to use his/her rights a a dual national of Ireland and Thailand....but they might want to someday. So give the kid a chance.

P.S. Probably not Irish...but there's a saying," If you be expecting to have soup for dinner tomorrow, then don't be p--ssing into the soup pot today".

Edited April 18, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[beano2274]

The marriage is recognised in Ireland if registered at the Amphur.

recognised? please explain, as it is obviously different to being registered.

you do not have to register your marriage in Ireland, the Thai marriage certificate is proof you are married. You can deposit a copy with the Irish Records office. No need to do anything if you do not want to.

[beano2274]

Father born in Ireland.

Marriage registered in Thailand. So far not registered in Ireland.

From what I see there is no advantage of the birth of the child being in Ireland, other than if the Thai mother is going to live there for four years (?) in order to gain citizenship. In which case she will be eligible for welfare payments.

One aspect I was interested in, is that as a legally single Irish father (if the marriage isn't registered in Ireland), if I have a child in Ireland... are single Irish fathers with a child eligible for anything?

Thanks.

How would the mother stay there?

She/We wouldn't be.

So if not in Ireland, then not eligible for anything, not even child benefit.

[strollling]

Father born in Ireland.

Marriage registered in Thailand. So far not registered in Ireland.

From what I see there is no advantage of the birth of the child being in Ireland, other than if the Thai mother is going to live there for four years (?) in order to gain citizenship. In which case she will be eligible for welfare payments.

One aspect I was interested in, is that as a legally single Irish father (if the marriage isn't registered in Ireland), if I have a child in Ireland... are single Irish fathers with a child eligible for anything?

Thanks.

How would the mother stay there?

She/We wouldn't be.

So if not in Ireland, then not eligible for anything, not even child benefit.

I haven't been in Ireland for a long time. From friends coming over there are (were) numourous female EU nationals coming to Ireland to have children, then moving back to to Eastern Europe whilst being entitled to their weekly/monthly child allowance for the child's first 18 years.

There were moves about halting this process but not sure if anything has been done.

It does kind of say a lot though when a government will pay a weekly/monthly child allowance to a non-national mother and her child living in Eastern Europe for 18 years, but not help an Irish father with an Irish child.

That's the way it goes I s'pose.

Anyway, thanks all for the info. It looks like there is no advantage in going to Ireland to have the child born there, as they will be eligible for nothing extra than if they were born in Thailand. Unless the mother is going to stay there for 4 years in order to become a citizen, in which case she would likely be granted the weekly/monthly child allowance.

Edited April 18, 2012 by strollling

[7by7]

I haven't been in Ireland for a long time. From friends coming over there are (were) numourous female EU nationals coming to Ireland to have children, then moving back to to Eastern Europe whilst being entitled to their weekly/monthly child allowance for the child's first 18 years.

There were moves about halting this process but not sure if anything has been done.

It does kind of say a lot though when a government will pay a weekly/monthly child allowance to a non-national mother and her child living in Eastern Europe for 18 years, but not help an Irish father with an Irish child.

That's the way it goes I s'pose.

If Ireland does do this, then I suspect that they are the only EU country which does; the UK certainly doesn't. Even British citizens, in most cases, lose their child benefit if they and the child leave the UK!

Frankly, I suspect that your friends have been taken in by anti EU propaganda.

[strollling]

I haven't been in Ireland for a long time. From friends coming over there are (were) numourous female EU nationals coming to Ireland to have children, then moving back to to Eastern Europe whilst being entitled to their weekly/monthly child allowance for the child's first 18 years.

There were moves about halting this process but not sure if anything has been done.

It does kind of say a lot though when a government will pay a weekly/monthly child allowance to a non-national mother and her child living in Eastern Europe for 18 years, but not help an Irish father with an Irish child.

That's the way it goes I s'pose.

If Ireland does do this, then I suspect that they are the only EU country which does; the UK certainly doesn't. Even British citizens, in most cases, lose their child benefit if they and the child leave the UK!

Frankly, I suspect that your friends have been taken in by anti EU propaganda.

I'm afraid not.

Ireland has had the most lax EU immigration and welfare policies of the lot, from the very start.

Edited April 18, 2012 by strollling

[jsflynn603]

I'd suggest that you go to visajourney.com and find the Ireland sub-forum. It's an excellent site and full of people who "have done it, and who are in the process of 'doing it' " rather than people who think it's one way or the other...

[LeeTheCelt]

Just a few things to add to this, as I have Just got married in Thailand, getting ready to bring My Thai with to the UK, but I am an Irish passport holder.

As said before, any child born of an Irish Parent, any where in the world is seen as an Irish citizen & therefore eligible for an Irish passport.

Marriage has to be registered with the consulate of Ireland Bangkok, an appointment is necessary, due to the fact it's not open every day ( We don't have an embassy in Thailand)

My Thai Language teacher here in the UK, has recently given birth to a daughter fathered by a British born Chinese guy, but the baby at only 10 months old already holds a Thai passport & being born here in the UK can also hold a British passport.

I am getting an EEA visa for My wife, which from what I can gather, as long as she travels with Me, can go anywhere in the EU.

Hope this helps :-)

[jphoward1971]

Having been in a similar position, I registered the birth at the Amphur, then sent the Thai birth cert for translation. registered (document certification) the child with the Embassy of Ireland & Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok. Then I applied for the child's passport, you will need the parent Irish Passport, the translated certified birth cert, if you have the parent Irish long form birth cert that’s a bonus (and other normal passport stuff pictures, application form, fee......) it is basically a formality. A child of an Irish national is automatically entitled to Irish Citizenship, (unless the parent was born abroad) then it can be obtained via naturalization/residence in Ireland.

I had difficulty initially leaving Thailand with my child as she needed to have her Thai Passport to leave the country (she couldn’t leave on the Irish Passport), When myself & the wife got to immigration at Don Mueang (few years ago) they scrutinized all supporting documents to validate that the child was ours, This happened regularly until my daughter was about 2yrs, if my daughter traveled in/out of Thailand on her Thai Passport.

Once you have the Passport and actually travel to Ireland, pay a visit to your local social services office and register the child there they will give you a PPSN (Personal Public Services Number), this will help in the future.

If you are going to reside in Ireland you can also claim the children’s benefit from the government; however they will require 3 proofs of residence (utility bills, bank account etc.) and will initially carry out visits/inspections plus they now only pay into an Irish bank account and I've also heard that they only pay after 3 months of registering to confirm that you are residing in Ireland. They have tightened up a lot over the past few years due to Eastern Europeans and others abusing the system.

[strollling]

If you are going to reside in Ireland you can also claim the children’s benefit from the government; however they will require 3 proofs of residence (utility bills, bank account etc.) and will initially carry out visits/inspections.

Thanks for the info.

Are Irish fathers eligible for any kind of benefit from the state though?

I thought it was only mothers that were given it. As the mother would be an non-EU national I think they're only eligible once they gain an Irish passport after X-Years living there?

plus they now only pay into an Irish bank account and I've also heard that they only pay after 3 months of registering to confirm that you are residing in Ireland. They have tightened up a lot over the past few years due to Eastern Europeans and others abusing the system.

Yeah, I heard all the stories of E.Europeans signing on, then buggering back to Poland etc and only flying back in every 8 weeks when they had to show up and sign on in person, then flight back the same day while the weekly payments go into their bank account. Heard they changed the singing on process to either every 2 or 4 weeks due to it.

I'd be interested in finding out if Irish fathers are eligible for any kind of benefit though?

[bozzman111]

another cheap shot by the passport dept its a few years ago though i was back in ireland wiht all relevant papers for the porpose of aquireing a passport for my daughter

went into the passport office in dublin was told oh you cnat apply here cause the baby was born in bkk !!!! you have to applly there so no 17 euro passport cost approx 75 euro when i did it in bkk !!!!

[SteveLynch]

hi there recently applied for a irish passport for my daughter and have been put on hold as the embassey wanted me to supply my parents marriage cert ,even tough i have an irish passport ,seemed a bit wierd but have now recieved it in the post from my mum ,and will process the babys passport next week

That said i want my daughter to have an Irish Passport so her life will be easier if she chooses to travel when older, To be im a bit embarresed t the orignal poster who admits he hasnt lived in Ireland in many years and is only considdering returning so he can cliam welfare ,so what if some Eastern block folks take the Piss out of the Irish welfare system ,is it ok that a non resident who hasent lived there in a considerable amount of time does the same thing ,Ireland as a country is on its knees ,well done for adding to the misery ,why dont you get a better job and pay for your own child rather than trying to scam some cash outta a country were you dont pay Tax (and if you are paying tax in Ireland please let me know how )

[strollling]

hi there recently applied for a irish passport for my daughter and have been put on hold as the embassey wanted me to supply my parents marriage cert ,even tough i have an irish passport ,seemed a bit wierd but have now recieved it in the post from my mum

Seems odd.

The consulate wanting your parents Marriage Cert. What if they weren't married, or as mine, they were married in England in the 60's.

To be im a bit embarresed t the orignal poster who admits he hasnt lived in Ireland in many years and is only considdering returning so he can cliam welfare

I lived in the country for many years (during which I paid tax and claimed for nothing btw, my parents paid tax for a combined 80 years), I feel that as there are government welfare options available to parents, why not see if you're eligible, stick that 50 quid a week or whatever into an account for 18 years, it would result in a nice 30,000 euro birthday present on their 18th to help them on their way. Why not, that was the cost of two of Charley Haughey's silk shirts... And he had 15 of them.

Well done for being so moral. No doubt you'll be giving your daughter a better welcome to adulthood than free 30k investment options.

Edited April 22, 2012 by strollling

[beano2274]

If you want benefits from your own country for your child, then go back there simple. I worked in Germany for the British Government got Child Benefit, but as soon as I left that job and moved into another area, bang the Child Benefit went, even as a British Citizen. These Eastern Europeans get away with murder, but the Government allows them to do it, whereas people like you and me cannot.

That is the way it goes sorry to say, unless you wanna claim Heating allowance like a few people here do.

[strollling]

If you want benefits from your own country for your child, then go back there simple.

Really?

What benefits are there for employed Irish fathers of Irish childern?

Edited April 22, 2012 by strollling

[beano2274]

If you want benefits from your own country for your child, then go back there simple.

Really?

What benefits are there for employed Irish fathers of Irish childern?

Child Benefit for the child if with you.

[strollling]

What child benefit is there for Irish fathers (employed to a taxable level)??