History...or Something Like It!

[chippie]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

[evadgib]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...when George Harrison, Ronald Reagan, George Best passed away I had to explain what the fuss was about, furthermore Pope JP2's demise was relayed as 'father christmas has died'!!

(fortunatly I no longer believe in Santa!)

[The_Moog]

1)

the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won

I seem to recall that technically it was North Vietnam vs South Vietnam, so a Vietnamese winner was always a good bet.

2)

'father christmas has died'!!

(fortunatly I no longer believe in Santa!)

'The Pope' is translated as 'Santa Papa' in Thai language.

I think posters had better be careful before calling Thais uneducated. This is not a very nice topic - Chippie you could have done better for your inaugural post.

Edited December 26, 2005 by The_Moog

[sonthaya]

1)

the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won

I seem to recall that technically it was North Vietnam vs South Vietnam, so a Vietnamese winner was always a good bet.

You are right there, that's a pretty safe bid

[Guest endure]

1)

I think posters had better be careful before calling Thais dumb. This is not a very nice topic - Chippie you could have done better for your inaugural post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Calling someone uneducated is not the same as calling them dumb.

[chippie]

To the Moog, I didn't say or even imply that all thais were uneducated, I simply asked if it was common that the single biggest historical event in the 20th century was not realised by thais in general.

[Johpa]

1)

I think posters had better be careful before calling Thais dumb. This is not a very nice topic - Chippie you could have done better for your inaugural post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Calling someone uneducated is not the same as calling them dumb.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would not call the Thais uneducated or dumb. But they are most certainly somewhat challenged vis a vis history. World history is little taught and local history often retains a great deal of myth combined with various hagiographies handed down in the Pongsaawadan, the Royal Chronicles. The most emblematic example is of course the myth of the Ramkhamhaeng stone. Thai history is often taught as this nice linear movement of related royalty who move their capitols ever southward from Chiang Saen to Bangkok all the while valiantly fighting off the neighbors. It is little wonder that the problems down in the far south cause most Thais to scratch their heads in bewilderment.

[OlRedEyes]

1)

the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won

I seem to recall that technically it was North Vietnam vs South Vietnam, so a Vietnamese winner was always a good bet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gotta bring a smile to your face

[kayo]

In response to the OP, although I don't know where you are from, I'm european, and yeah grew up knowing most of what happened in Europe during WW2 but very little was passed on to me about the pacific theatre, nor the asian sides of the world war.

It was only much later that I found out a lot more about for example the japanese pacts with LOS.

So my query to you is, does your GF not know about WW2, or does was she simply unaware of what happened in France, Europe. Surely she knows somehting of the Japanese side of the war, the death railway through Kanchanburi Province.. And since you mentioned vietnam, is she not aware that the Thai Navy and airforce clashed with the French near Koh Chang, on the cambodian (french indochinese) border, in the years leading up to the Vietnam war?

[suegha]

I don't know how accurate it is to say people are uneducated or unlearned. Even in the UK 'young people' seem to know very little about history.

I think as things get further back in history people seem to know less and less. In a recent poll in the USA a huge percentage of 18 year olds didn't know that the Germans were on the other side in WW2! Try also to remember that you don't know something till you've learned it. I know this sounds very obvious, but a friend of mine in his 20s exclaimed that he had only just learned that Pearl harbour happened during WW2. He's not stupid, he just didn't learn that piece of info until late in life.

When I was brought up, I was born in 1962, WW2 was still a very strong memory but WW1 wasn't, so it was seldom discussed.

[Gumballl]

Just to add my $0.02 worth of opinion, some Thais that I have met are not aware of their geopolitical situation, whether current or historical. This is not to imply that they are "dumb", but merely that they are (or were) not taught this in their schools, or that perhaps it reflects that they dropped out of school early (to work and support their family).

As for US "kids" not knowing the history of WWII, that truely implies that they are indeed stupid or that answering questions on a "test" is not their game (hence they answer incorrectly). WWI and WWII are taught in schools in the US... who were the bad guys and who were the good, and obviously who won the wars, including the Vietnam conflict. Of course, what is taught is the perspective of the writers of history, not of what actually took place.

Anyhow, I think that people generally commit to memory and learn what is important to their lives, and disregard what is not. I would imagine that most TV-ers do not know advanced Calculus or Astrophysics. Does that make them "stupid"?... nope, not at all. I'm sure everyone has at least one skill that helps them exceed in life.

I have always been taught that it is important to know history so as not to repeat the "mistakes" that have occurred in the past. Explain how any of this matters to a farmer in the middle of Thailand, that has to scrape by each day with little money in hand? Why would they care about WWII? How does this event affect them? Does the fact that the "good side" won make it easier for them to earn money at the end of the day? Does it fill their stomachs with food? I won't answer these questions, because I think that everyone already knows the answers.

P.S. Any kid in the US today that has a PlayStation or Xbox knows about WWII. There are loads of games on the subject. Oh yeah, and there are also history books in school. Can they read?... that is another topic to debate.

P.S.S. Chippie - I read your original post... I applaud you for choosing your words carefully, when asking if your girlfriend was the most uneducated girl in Thailand. Other TV posters poorly took your words out of context to insinuate that you were speaking of all thais... this is wrong of them to do that... and in the future I hope that they will learn to read more carefully.

Edited December 26, 2005 by Gumballl

[danbkk1]

I think this is more to do with uninterested and appathy more than anything. I'm sure that there are World history and geography class that every Thais have to take in the secondary school. They probably know it before the exam and immediately forget it afterward. This situation happen in the US as well with the whole "Why do the rest of the world hate us so badly"

Many Thais in my generation is mostly uninterested in current affairs in general. Let alone the issues surronding Thai politics (Who can blame them)

Soon, The only place that you can disscuss about current affairs will be in the Universities where only the professors will talk among themself!

[thaibebop]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't call her uneducated. Many Asian governments find no value in teaching history in public schools. To be productive math and science would be more useful and better career builders. Also, what history they do teach, just like in the west, is going to be what they think as affected them most. It could be argued that WWII and Vietnam meant very little to the Thais. Their wars with Burma would be talked about more I think.

[Gumballl]

I think this is more to do with uninterested and appathy more than anything.  I'm sure that there are World history and geography class that every Thais have to take in the secondary school.  They probably know it before the exam and immediately forget it afterward.  This situation happen in the US as well with the whole "Why do the rest of the world hate us so badly" 

Many Thais in my generation is mostly uninterested in current affairs in general.  Let alone the issues surronding Thai politics (Who can blame them)

Soon, The only place that you can disscuss about current affairs will be in the Universities where only the professors will talk among themself!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Danbkk, I agree with you... this is notion is universal, especially in more developed nations where the honey-bees become too specialized in one area, at the expense of learning another.

I am a software engineer... I wish sometimes I had studied to becomee a civil engineer (so as to know how to build a house), or a mechanical engineer (to build an ice-box), or a chef to learn to make a good meal from scraps. But it seems that I do not have the luxury of time to learn everything. The same can be said for others, including Thai.

[sriracha john]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, not at all. I would think you found a girl who has received her education in America.

[Glauka]

I don't know how accurate it is to say people are uneducated or unlearned.  Even in the UK 'young people' seem to know very little about history.

I think as things get further back in history people seem to know less and less.  In a recent poll in the USA a huge percentage of 18 year olds didn't know that the Germans were on the other side in WW2!  Try also to remember that you don't know something till you've learned it.  I know this sounds very obvious, but a friend of mine in his 20s exclaimed that he had only just learned that Pearl harbour happened during WW2.  He's not stupid, he just didn't learn that piece of info until late in life.

When I was brought up, I was born in 1962, WW2 was still a very strong memory but WW1 wasn't, so it was seldom discussed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agree

sometimes we take for granted that people should know about things that are very obvious to us...

however I don´t know much abour asian history or african history...

so should I call myself uneducated woman?

yes maybe I am...

[Richard W]

To the Moog, I didn't say or even imply that all thais were uneducated, I simply asked if it was common that the single biggest historical event in the 20th century was not realised by thais in general.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From the Thai point of view, aren't the most significant events of the 25th Century the end of the absolute monarchy and the loss of Sibsong Chutai (now under alien, Vietnamese rule), Laos, Cambodia (especially including Battambang) and Malaya?

[Ricardo]

To the Moog, I didn't say or even imply that all thais were uneducated, I simply asked if it was common that the single biggest historical event in the 20th century was not realised by thais in general.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm , that was the break-up of the Beatles, right ?

To get serious, the invasion by the Japanese, and the death of a couple of hundred thousand Asians (as well as the farang prisoners-of-war) does seem to come as NEWS to many Thais. Wonder why their schoold don't teach this ?

[wilko]

After watching 'saving private ryan' with my girlfriend we were talking about history and it turns out she has never heard of the second world war, Adolf Hitler or the Vietnam war, and was astonished when I told her the Vietnamese won. Is this normal or have I found the most uneducated girl in thailand??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, not at all. I would think you found a girl who has received her education in America.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yeah!!!!

[ThaiPauly]

My Wife had never heard of AH

I thought it surprising at the time, but now I realise that how can you know something if you are not taught it.

As previously said, if you are not taught about your own country's history (apart from the good bits-we have never been an occupied country???????) then they cannot be expected to know anything about the rest of the worlds history can they?

They are not dumb nor stupid, but ignorrant because of the system

TP

[chownah]

People don't talk about WWII. It's not in the newspapers. It's not on TV. It's not at the movies. If you weren't paying attention on the day it was mentioned in school then how in the heck would you ever have heard of it?

How many people do you think have lived perfectly fine lives in Thailand and really don't know anything about WWII?...probably alot.....perhaps a majority.

Can you add fractions? You probably think that you can but can you add 1/77 with 29/65?....without a calculator? Why not? They almost assuredly taught you to do this in school. Adding these two numbers requires knowing about five facts and about three processes. To understand what WWII was requires understanding a multitude of facts and historical relationships....a much more difficult thing. Probably you can't add the fractions and she doesn't know about WWII because of lack of interest....do you think?

[Gumballl]

I'm piss drunk right now.

BTW, 1/77 + 29/65 = (1 * 65)/(77 * 65) + (29 * 77)/(65 * 77)... which equals some number more than zero, but less than one... say approx 0.5 just for grins.

I think that even Thais know this answer.

If not, then perhaps I have a job as a drunk mathematician.

All joking aside, we each do what we are "programmed" to do... learn a trade, and practice it. Some are more fortunate than others, and have the opportunity to learn other facts that may embellish their livelihoods. Great... more kudos to them.

The only result of WWII that I think we can all agree on, is that we each have the freedom to say our opinion about whatever we think. I believe that this is the fundamental right that every person should have... educated or not.

How is a person who thinks he/she is "right" to feel satisfied, if there is not something "wrong" to compare against?

Personally, I love to teach, and also to learn.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Gumballl

[Welshman]

No, not at all. I would think you found a girl who has received her education in America.

We had an American guy on the same TEFL course in August. One weekend, I went with some family to visit the Bridge on the River Kwai, the war cemetry and the death railway itself.

I mentioned this to this American guy, but he seemed completely bemused. I said 'you know, the Burma Railway'. No reaction, I said 'the death railway - where the Japs forced POWs to build a railway'.

'When was that then?' he asked.

'During the war' I said.

'Oh right', he said, 'that'd be the Vietnam war, right?'

[sriracha john]

No, not at all. I would think you found a girl who has received her education in America.

We had an American guy on the same TEFL course in August. One weekend, I went with some family to visit the Bridge on the River Kwai, the war cemetry and the death railway itself.

I mentioned this to this American guy, but he seemed completely bemused. I said 'you know, the Burma Railway'. No reaction, I said 'the death railway - where the Japs forced POWs to build a railway'.

'When was that then?' he asked.

'During the war' I said.

'Oh right', he said, 'that'd be the Vietnam war, right?'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what starts out as my facetious remark.... turns true.... gotta luv it...

and gotta hate the sorry state of american education..

I actually dare say the guy was more typical than atypical....

[bannork]

2 questions for our learned Thaivisa members.

1. Victory Monument was named after which Thai victory? (Not many Thais can answer this one).

2. T.G. the national airline is short for what?

[britmaveric]

No, not at all. I would think you found a girl who has received her education in America.

We had an American guy on the same TEFL course in August. One weekend, I went with some family to visit the Bridge on the River Kwai, the war cemetry and the death railway itself.

I mentioned this to this American guy, but he seemed completely bemused. I said 'you know, the Burma Railway'. No reaction, I said 'the death railway - where the Japs forced POWs to build a railway'.

'When was that then?' he asked.

'During the war' I said.

'Oh right', he said, 'that'd be the Vietnam war, right?'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what starts out as my facetious remark.... turns true.... gotta luv it...

and gotta hate the sorry state of american education..

I actually dare say the guy was more typical than atypical....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Ulysses G.]

No, not at all. I would think you found a girl who has received her education in America.

We had an American guy on the same TEFL course in August. One weekend, I went with some family to visit the Bridge on the River Kwai, the war cemetry and the death railway itself.

I mentioned this to this American guy, but he seemed completely bemused. I said 'you know, the Burma Railway'. No reaction, I said 'the death railway - where the Japs forced POWs to build a railway'.

'When was that then?' he asked.

'During the war' I said.

'Oh right', he said, 'that'd be the Vietnam war, right?'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what starts out as my facetious remark.... turns true.... gotta luv it...

and gotta hate the sorry state of american education..

I actually dare say the guy was more typical than atypical....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a load...

Most Americans know the movie "Bride Over the River Kwai", that the Japanese forced Allied soldiers to build a railway and that it happened during World War II.

Those suggesting that most Americans are ignorant are living in glass houses and should stop throwing stones.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Ulysses G.

[Richard W]

1. Victory Monument was named after which Thai victory? (Not many Thais can answer this one).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Over France in the Indochina War of 1940–1941. It led (Tokyo Convention of 1941) to the brief recovery of the provinces of Lanchang, Champasak, Pibulsonggram (sp.?) and Battambang, and to the recovery of the right hand part of the Mekong River.

[sriracha john]

No, not at all. I would think you found a girl who has received her education in America.

We had an American guy on the same TEFL course in August. One weekend, I went with some family to visit the Bridge on the River Kwai, the war cemetry and the death railway itself.

I mentioned this to this American guy, but he seemed completely bemused. I said 'you know, the Burma Railway'. No reaction, I said 'the death railway - where the Japs forced POWs to build a railway'.

'When was that then?' he asked.

'During the war' I said.

'Oh right', he said, 'that'd be the Vietnam war, right?'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what starts out as my facetious remark.... turns true.... gotta luv it...

and gotta hate the sorry state of american education..

I actually dare say the guy was more typical than atypical....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a load...

Most Americans know the movie "Bride Over the River Kwai", that the Japanese forced Allied soldiers to build a railway and that it happened during World War II.

Those suggesting that most Americans are ignorant are living in glass houses and should stop throwing stones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if we're talking about the same movie... "Bridge (not Bride)"... then I would need to point out that despite it's excellence, it was indeed made in 1957 and thus not nearly as well known among the younger generation (as one might find in the cited TEFL course). Those old enough to be familar with the movie will be old enough to already be familar with the events of WWII.

Anyone who thinks that the American educational system hasn't slipped a great deal in the generation since 1950's is certainly living in an Ivory Tower (to borrow another housing-related euphemism).

Edited December 27, 2005 by sriracha john

[Ulysses G.]

Top 500 World Universities (1-100)

World Rank Institution* Region Regional Rank Country National Rank Score on Alumni Score on Award Score on HiCi Score on N&S Score on SCI Score on Size Total Score

1 Harvard Univ Americas 1 USA 1 100 100 100 100 100 72.4 100

2 Univ Cambridge Europe 1 UK 1 99.8 93.4 53.3 56.6 70.9 66.9 73.6

3 Stanford Univ Americas 2 USA 2 41.1 72.2 88.5 70.9 72.3 65 73.4

4 Univ California - Berkeley Americas 3 USA 3 71.8 76 69.4 73.9 72.2 52.7 72.8

5 Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT) Americas 4 USA 4 74 80.6 66.7 65.8 64.3 53 70.1

6 California Inst Tech Americas 5 USA 5 59.2 68.6 59.8 65.8 52.5 100 67.1

7 Columbia Univ Americas 6 USA 6 79.4 60.6 56.1 54.2 69.5 45.4 62.3

8 Princeton Univ Americas 7 USA 7 63.4 76.8 60.9 48.7 48.5 59.1 60.9

9 Univ Chicago Americas 8 USA 8 75.6 81.9 50.3 44.7 56.4 42.2 60.1

10 Univ Oxford Europe 2 UK 2 64.3 59.1 48.4 55.6 68.4 53.2 59.7

11 Yale Univ Americas 9 USA 9 52.1 44.5 60.3 57.2 63.9 49.3 56.9

12 Cornell Univ Americas 10 USA 10 46.5 52.4 55 48.8 66.3 39.8 54.6

13 Univ California - San Diego Americas 11 USA 11 17.7 34.7 59.8 56.5 64.5 46.6 51

14 Univ California - Los Angeles Americas 12 USA 12 27.3 32.8 56.7 50.1 75.6 34.3 50.6

15 Univ Pennsylvania Americas 13 USA 13 35.5 35.1 56.7 42.9 71.8 39.1 50.2

16 Univ Wisconsin - Madison Americas 14 USA 14 43 36.3 52.1 46.3 68.7 29 49.2

17 Univ Washington - Seattle Americas 15 USA 15 28.8 32.4 53.9 47.1 73.8 27.2 48.4

18 Univ California - San Francisco Americas 16 USA 16 0 37.6 55.6 57.9 58.8 45.2 47.8

19 Johns Hopkins Univ Americas 17 USA 17 51.4 28.3 41.6 52.2 67.7 24.9 46.9

20 Tokyo Univ Asia/Pac 1 Japan 1 36 14.4 38.5 52.1 86.5 34.7 46.7

Only 3 of the world's top 20 universities are located outside the USA.

Enough said.