necronx99 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 So does that mean that when all the expats return to Oz, all taxpayers will then pay less tax??? Of course not, it will go up so they can keep breeding more teenage single mums out west. Everyone like to go on about working 40 years and rights and guff. What the all fail to realize is that pensions are a direct budgetary item, not an accrual. All the tax you paid doesn't get set aside for your pension, it went to paying other people their pension. This i why we have compulsory super now. In 20 years there wont be a pension at all, of any sort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) Following on from above ... Bad backs would no longer be assessed by how much movement and mobility has been lost, but rather on what the back condition prevents the person from doing -- such as sitting for a long period of time, or bending over to pick up objects. Such an assessment may still allow for certain types of work to be undertaken. Well, there goes (hopefully) any qualification under these new guidelines that a person could sit for 8 hours in cramped Airline seat, but could not replicate that function in a comfy office chair ... EDIT ... WOW bushfire occurred above ... from my post #27, only a few minutes ago above Edited May 5, 2012 by David48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 In my humble opinion, only those who have never cheated on their tax have a right to critize those scammers on DSP. ''Let he who is without sin etc etc." Oh, pleeeze, give me a break. I shoplifted a Milky Bar when I was 10, does this rule me out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaibruce Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I would think it depends on the severity of your illness as whether to seek medical treatment here. Health care in Thailand for farangs isn't cheap IMO, especially if you want a decent standard of care and not in a government hospital. A friend of mine was diagnosed with bone cancer recently, the treatment in Thailand would have sent him bankrupt, he had no choice but to return to Australia. Right, I should clarify. When I said cheaper you (they) need to take into account the cost of travelling back to Australia (quite possibly return tickets not just for themseves but also partner and possibly children, accommodation in the relevant city, etc. And what about if follow-up treatment was necessary?So taking advantage of "free" health care is not always such an attraction as some might at first think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) Just some FACTS … The Australian population is a tad over 22 Million. Number of people on Disability support Pension … 800,000 ... 800 frigging thousand … one for every twenty man, woman and child, unemployed OAP, self funded retirees and the list continues … remember you can’t be an OAP and a disability pensioner. 'Frigging' used because other, more appropriate words will get this post removed! EDIT:- ... chiangmaibruce, mate not having a go at you because you present a rational argument and play the ball and not the man (and I respect that) and while we might disagree about the principle, I respect your right to your honest opinion as I am allowed to have mine. EDIT#2 ... and happy to buy you a beer also ... Edited May 5, 2012 by David48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I would think it depends on the severity of your illness as whether to seek medical treatment here. Health care in Thailand for farangs isn't cheap IMO, especially if you want a decent standard of care and not in a government hospital. A friend of mine was diagnosed with bone cancer recently, the treatment in Thailand would have sent him bankrupt, he had no choice but to return to Australia. Right, I should clarify. When I said cheaper you (they) need to take into account the cost of travelling back to Australia (quite possibly return tickets not just for themseves but also partner and possibly children, accommodation in the relevant city, etc. And what about if follow-up treatment was necessary?So taking advantage of "free" health care is not always such an attraction as some might at first think. Obviously the costs would need to be weighed up, in my friends case the cost for chemo, bone marrow transplants, lengthy hospital stays, injections at over $1000 a pop has already hit the several hundred thousand dollars mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Australian morning TV program called 'Sunrise' and a few commentators views on the subject ... disability-pension-jump http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/25414180/disability-pension-jump/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Australian morning TV program called 'Sunrise' and a few commentators views on the subject ... disability-pension-jump http://au.tv.yahoo.c...y-pension-jump/ An increase of 35,000 people in one year? Don't tell me there isn't a huge rort going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgroper2 Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 In my humble opinion, only those who have never cheated on their tax have a right to critize those scammers on DSP. ''Let he who is without sin etc etc." Oh, pleeeze, give me a break. I shoplifted a Milky Bar when I was 10, does this rule me out? Most definitly as the shopkeeper would have written the cost off his tax. Not on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 In my humble opinion, only those who have never cheated on their tax have a right to critize those scammers on DSP. ''Let he who is without sin etc etc." Oh, pleeeze, give me a break. I shoplifted a Milky Bar when I was 10, does this rule me out? Most definitly as the shopkeeper would have written the cost off his tax. Not on. Mate ... bullets flying from all directions ... yet you retain your Aussie sense of humour ... If we ever meet let me buy you the first beer ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescollister Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 In reality how many Dis abled pensioners are really fying around the world, what do they get $250 to $300 a week and have to buy return plane tickets every 3 months and now every 6 weeks. Just smoke and mirrors to make other changes that the people don't notice straight away. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Following on from above ... Bad backs would no longer be assessed by how much movement and mobility has been lost, but rather on what the back condition prevents the person from doing -- such as sitting for a long period of time, or bending over to pick up objects. Such an assessment may still allow for certain types of work to be undertaken. Well, there goes (hopefully) any qualification under these new guidelines that a person could sit for 8 hours in cramped Airline seat, but could not replicate that function in a comfy office chair ... EDIT ... WOW bushfire occurred above ... from my post #27, only a few minutes ago above I am not disagreeing with you David however you need to be aware that if a flight from Aus takes 8 hours then the pilot is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Following on from above ... Bad backs would no longer be assessed by how much movement and mobility has been lost, but rather on what the back condition prevents the person from doing -- such as sitting for a long period of time, or bending over to pick up objects. Such an assessment may still allow for certain types of work to be undertaken. Well, there goes (hopefully) any qualification under these new guidelines that a person could sit for 8 hours in cramped Airline seat, but could not replicate that function in a comfy office chair ... EDIT ... WOW bushfire occurred above ... from my post #27, only a few minutes ago above I am not disagreeing with you David however you need to be aware that if a flight from Aus takes 8 hours then the pilot is lost. How many hours should it take? It all depends where you fly from doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevjohn Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Following on from above ... Bad backs would no longer be assessed by how much movement and mobility has been lost, but rather on what the back condition prevents the person from doing -- such as sitting for a long period of time, or bending over to pick up objects. Such an assessment may still allow for certain types of work to be undertaken. Well, there goes (hopefully) any qualification under these new guidelines that a person could sit for 8 hours in cramped Airline seat, but could not replicate that function in a comfy office chair ... EDIT ... WOW bushfire occurred above ... from my post #27, only a few minutes ago above I am not disagreeing with you David however you need to be aware that if a flight from Aus takes 8 hours then the pilot is lost. How many hours should it take? It all depends where you fly from doesn't it? Yep. 8hrs plus, from Bangkok to Sydney, direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Then why did Scully suggest that the pilot was lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevjohn Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Then why did Scully suggest that the pilot was lost? No idea. Maybe he only wanted to go to Darwin. That is probably only about 5+hrs but, I realy do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinjinswing Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Here we goooooooooo....welfare bashing...the right of the right...everyone on welfare is cast in the same mold...if you can live on those payments in Australia then your a miracle worker, magician even, thoughtless ignorant pigs a lot of you guys are. They make it dam tough for people to get those payments, they make it dam hard and its next to nothing. And what about jacking up the retirement age? how about us guys in the trades with worn out shoulder joints working to 70?... Armchair critics worried about a few scams that get by, why dont you hunt down corruption in politics and police force with the same zeal. Im going home in a few months and if my shoulders dont come good im going for a DP and i wanna live here casue i dont have pain in the hot weather.....................You rednecks...new right....far right....make me sick to my stomach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Here we goooooooooo....welfare bashing...the right of the right...everyone on welfare is cast in the same mold...if you can live on those payments in Australia then your a miracle worker, magician even, thoughtless ignorant pigs a lot of you guys are. They make it dam tough for people to get those payments, they make it dam hard and its next to nothing. And what about jacking up the retirement age? how about us guys in the trades with worn out shoulder joints working to 70?... Armchair critics worried about a few scams that get by, why dont you hunt down corruption in politics and police force with the same zeal. Im going home in a few months and if my shoulders dont come good im going for a DP and i wanna live here casue i dont have pain in the hot weather.....................You rednecks...new right....far right....make me sick to my stomach Sounds like you can add stomach problems to your DSP claim. How can you say they make it "dam (sic) tough" for people to get payments, when there were 35,000 new DSP recipients last year? Because I criticise an overly generous welfare system doesn't make me a right-wing redneck. I could claim that it's the left-wing bleeding heart liberals that are causing the end of civilisation as we know it. Edited May 6, 2012 by giddyup 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinclapham Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Here we goooooooooo....welfare bashing...the right of the right...everyone on welfare is cast in the same mold...if you can live on those payments in Australia then your a miracle worker, magician even, thoughtless ignorant pigs a lot of you guys are. They make it dam tough for people to get those payments, they make it dam hard and its next to nothing. And what about jacking up the retirement age? how about us guys in the trades with worn out shoulder joints working to 70?... Armchair critics worried about a few scams that get by, why dont you hunt down corruption in politics and police force with the same zeal. Im going home in a few months and if my shoulders dont come good im going for a DP and i wanna live here casue i dont have pain in the hot weather.....................You rednecks...new right....far right....make me sick to my stomach They dont have warm weather in Oz then? Granted some areas in the winter become very cold indeed, but this is usually the time that grey nomads migrate further north. Doesnt this apply for under 35's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinjinswing Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 The current left is right now....hawk and keating molded them, the system is not generous and how you come to that conclusion is out right amazing, Its easy for someone to criticizes the system sitting back in your armchair, if you can live a good life on $300 a week then you should write a book on it and you will make millions. 35,000 new DP participants you say, well when there's about 10 million in the work force and more than 50% are trade related or unskilled it means useing you hands...body..i am a carpenter and builder, most carpenters are feeling the affect on there body by early 30s..most carpenters do not frame houses past 40 with out a crew of apprentices working for them, would you like to be a connector at 50? even with new technology they still need to push the cement around and bend over for the best part of a pour as well as the form work...my friend you have no idea what being a tradesman is..our bodys give up some early some later, were not indestructible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Here we goooooooooo....welfare bashing...the right of the right...everyone on welfare is cast in the same mold...if you can live on those payments in Australia then your a miracle worker, magician even, thoughtless ignorant pigs a lot of you guys are. They make it dam tough for people to get those payments, they make it dam hard and its next to nothing. And what about jacking up the retirement age? how about us guys in the trades with worn out shoulder joints working to 70?... Armchair critics worried about a few scams that get by, why dont you hunt down corruption in politics and police force with the same zeal. Im going home in a few months and if my shoulders dont come good im going for a DP and i wanna live here casue i dont have pain in the hot weather.....................You rednecks...new right....far right....make me sick to my stomach They dont have warm weather in Oz then? Granted some areas in the winter become very cold indeed, but this is usually the time that grey nomads migrate further north. Doesnt this apply for under 35's ? Move to Darwin, same weather as Thailand. Beer's not as cheap though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) The current left is right now....hawk and keating molded them, the system is not generous and how you come to that conclusion is out right amazing, Its easy for someone to criticizes the system sitting back in your armchair, if you can live a good life on $300 a week then you should write a book on it and you will make millions. 35,000 new DP participants you say, well when there's about 10 million in the work force and more than 50% are trade related or unskilled it means useing you hands...body..i am a carpenter and builder, most carpenters are feeling the affect on there body by early 30s..most carpenters do not frame houses past 40 with out a crew of apprentices working for them, would you like to be a connector at 50? even with new technology they still need to push the cement around and bend over for the best part of a pour as well as the form work...my friend you have no idea what being a tradesman is..our bodys give up some early some later, were not indestructible. You should have picked a different career, window dressing perhaps. Please don't cry to me about tradesman's bodies giving up early. The kind of money good tradesman make in Australia, they should be able to retire comfortably at 50. I, in fact, lived fairly comfortably on $300 a week in Oz, admittedly I owned my own house, wasn't a total pisspot or gambler and didn't have a taste for caviar. Edited May 6, 2012 by giddyup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinjinswing Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Yes they have hot weather up north, if you can live on what they will give you then your just fantastic....in prevoius post it should have said concretor.... Its obvious that most of the contributors to this post have either a very strong body or worked in an office all there lives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinjinswing Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 giddyup...what a stupid statement....between welfare bashing and income of tradesman...shows you want a moron you really are...you got no idea. Generalizing with no known facts you shoot your big mouth off...... I hope one day soon you need to go on DP or retire early and have to live on the crap they wanna dish out to you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 giddyup...what a stupid statement....between welfare bashing and income of tradesman...shows you want a moron you really are...you got no idea. Generalizing with no known facts you shoot your big mouth off...... I hope one day soon you need to go on DP or retire early and have to live on the crap they wanna dish out to you. It seems quite easy to get DSP in Oz, if your a tradesman and your arm is shot you can try some other jobs where i come from. It wasn't like that before but now it is. (good too) I mean just because your shoulder does not work does not mean there isnt anything else you can do. I feel that DSP and stuff are only for those in real need and that really cannot do any work anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I would think it depends on the severity of your illness as whether to seek medical treatment here. Health care in Thailand for farangs isn't cheap IMO, especially if you want a decent standard of care and not in a government hospital. A friend of mine was diagnosed with bone cancer recently, the treatment in Thailand would have sent him bankrupt, he had no choice but to return to Australia. Right, I should clarify. When I said cheaper you (they) need to take into account the cost of travelling back to Australia (quite possibly return tickets not just for themseves but also partner and possibly children, accommodation in the relevant city, etc. And what about if follow-up treatment was necessary?So taking advantage of "free" health care is not always such an attraction as some might at first think. Obviously the costs would need to be weighed up, in my friends case the cost for chemo, bone marrow transplants, lengthy hospital stays, injections at over $1000 a pop has already hit the several hundred thousand dollars mark. Bone marrow transplants are costed about $250,000 to $300,000. You can knock to OZ health care system all you like, especially when it doesn't give you the rolls royce service off the bat. But it is world class, and it provides more than most at cost per patient that is a whole lot less that most other places. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 giddyup...what a stupid statement....between welfare bashing and income of tradesman...shows you want a moron you really are...you got no idea. Generalizing with no known facts you shoot your big mouth off...... I hope one day soon you need to go on DP or retire early and have to live on the crap they wanna dish out to you. It seems quite easy to get DSP in Oz, if your a tradesman and your arm is shot you can try some other jobs where i come from. It wasn't like that before but now it is. (good too) I mean just because your shoulder does not work does not mean there isnt anything else you can do. I feel that DSP and stuff are only for those in real need and that really cannot do any work anymore. It isn't easy Robb. My mother who had polio as a child, and now the after affects of it are flaring up in her 60's can't get on it and centrelink have defined her as fit to work, despite the fact that her left side is pretty weak. What keeps her going is that she's an natutally energetic person. But others do point out, it can appear to be 'easy' to get on it. Sure, there are the dodgy doctors and there are also those who know how to scam the system. One of the reasons is that that so many people do get onto DSP is that there is not always an effective 'half way house' in the welfare system between unemployment benefits and the DSP. As such, the DSP becomes a long term 'dumping ground' for longer term unemployed - and on DSP there is little obligation to try and find work. A dirty little secret from both sides of politics...putting people on DSP artifically lowers the unemployment levels. And as the DSP pays more, it is catching up on the budget bottom line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinclapham Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 If you have a serious disability I am all in favour of the pension being given. I also feel in many cases dependent on the state you are from, it is easier/harder than others to obtain some alternative employment but it rather makes a mockery of the guys that have worked 45+ years with bad backs who have never claimed a cent in their lives. Being written off at 35 to be able to live outside of the country is altogether another matter and in general I dont agree with it. I totally understand that living on a pension in Thailand would guarantee you a more comfortable lifestyle but unfortunately the minority that have plundered the system have made it more difficult for the genuine applicants. A very good friend of mine who was recently blinded through a brain tumour was called back to Scotland because he accepts rent rebates. The local council queried as to why he could afford a holiday overseas despite the fact we paid for his trip + keep. The council threatened him with eviction and loss of benefits and he had to cut short his trip by 2 months. He had to make himself available for work! A massive H & S risk with no hope of employment living in a rural area. Its not just Australia! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 giddyup...what a stupid statement....between welfare bashing and income of tradesman...shows you want a moron you really are...you got no idea. Generalizing with no known facts you shoot your big mouth off...... I hope one day soon you need to go on DP or retire early and have to live on the crap they wanna dish out to you. It seems quite easy to get DSP in Oz, if your a tradesman and your arm is shot you can try some other jobs where i come from. It wasn't like that before but now it is. (good too) I mean just because your shoulder does not work does not mean there isnt anything else you can do. I feel that DSP and stuff are only for those in real need and that really cannot do any work anymore. It isn't easy Robb. My mother who had polio as a child, and now the after affects of it are flaring up in her 60's can't get on it and centrelink have defined her as fit to work, despite the fact that her left side is pretty weak. What keeps her going is that she's an natutally energetic person. But others do point out, it can appear to be 'easy' to get on it. Sure, there are the dodgy doctors and there are also those who know how to scam the system. One of the reasons is that that so many people do get onto DSP is that there is not always an effective 'half way house' in the welfare system between unemployment benefits and the DSP. As such, the DSP becomes a long term 'dumping ground' for longer term unemployed - and on DSP there is little obligation to try and find work. A dirty little secret from both sides of politics...putting people on DSP artifically lowers the unemployment levels. And as the DSP pays more, it is catching up on the budget bottom line. Before in the Netherlands we had something similar where our form of DSP was used as a dumping ground for unemployed and with little checks if they could really work. In the end it was no long affordable and people were checked again now more stringent. I am all for helping those in need but the abuse of the system just makes me angry. By abusing it they punish the people who really need it. Like edwinclapham said im all for people who have worked for 45+ years but at 35 and being able to live outside the country is crazy of course. At that age you can easily go for a career change. Seems the good always suffer under the bad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescollister Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 As I said before, all smoke and mirrors, Government finds a few that are routing the system and uses the excuse to change the system. Not seen any numbers on how many DSP are lying on beaches in other countries. Remember people are not all on DSP pensions for bad backs, many have mental illness and other non physical problems. There will be more to the changes then we have been told, but the truth will be missed while everyone argues about jet set DSP. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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