Red Shirts Want An End To Military Coups: Thida

[hyperdimension]

Thaksin's primary objective is to secure control of the army, if/when that is achieved, her usefulness will be marginal at best.

Thaksin has been using the Red Shirts as his army that fights for his and his clan's interests. He had a number of generals / ex-generals (of whom General Khattiya Sawasdipol was the most prominent) to mastermind the riots and to supply military weapons, and Red Shirt leaders to mobilize and motivate them. The article Rogue generals on Thaksin's payroll cry for final showdown describes the plan, and accurately predicted the 2010 riots months in advance.

Once he gets hold of a real army (The Royal Thai Military), he would have less need to have the Red Shirts as his army.

Just as it is expected in a war that some soldiers will die, Thaksin and the generals expected, and probably hoped, that some of the useful idiots will die. However, unlike how soldiers are often seen to die for a noble cause (e.g. defending their country from invasion), 91 people died for the ignoble selfish interests of Thaksin. It disgusts me that people support a megalomaniac who has no qualms about sending people to their possible deaths just for him. Those people who derive an income on the internet to defend this ruthless madman, denigrate his opponents, and neutralize negative sentiment should really think about what they are doing.

Edited May 6, 2012 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

one can discuss the violence, from both sides, as has been done here already. But protesting is not undemocratic.

Is protesting with military weapons on-hand like M79 grenades, and then using them, democratic?

[volk666]

..It's not very likely that Thailand will suddenly turn into Cambodia under Pol Pot.

And if it does, you won't have time to post on here.

It won't turn into Cambodia but opposition to Thaksin will need to be quashed. Last time, in early 2006, Thaksin had to dissolve the parliament and he couldn't even win the subsequent elections.

In 2007 Samak was forced out of govt house and large swathes of the country became practically out of govt control. What reds and Thaksin did since then points to the far larger opposition next time around.

By all accounts it WILL turn ugly.

[whybother]

They only tinker around the edges of democracy in Thailand because the Privy Council controls the government / military at the end of the day, once the citizens of Thailand get freedom of speech and freedom of the media then Thailand will slowly begin to get democracy, and conceivably be able to keep the powerful military in check and prevent any more military coups.

And we have to remember when Abhisit was in power Thailand shot up the global corruption table thanks to him and his dishonest corrupt cronies’ time we had an honest chap like Thaksin back so we can cut the corruption back down to acceptable levels with only one person with his hand in the honey jar.

Actually, Thailand shot up the corruption "perception" tables. Those tables are taken from summaries of reports and surveys over the previous 18 months, and the year that Thailand shot up the tables was when the Democrats had been in power for less than 12 months. Also, being a "perception index", it is how corruption is perceived, which means how much people are aware of corruption. Following Thaksin's downfall and the court cases against him, people were a lot more aware of the corruption in Thailand. That doesn't mean that it was any worse than before. It just means people talked about it more. And one thing that the producers of this index state, is that you can't compare the CPI year on year because of different surveys being used to make up the index each year.

[Pseudolus]

"Some people might say that some elected people are embarrassing. They are seen to be people from the lower section of society, but they are elected, and that's legitimate,"

I like this woman. The fact is that the world likes a baddie to pin the tail on when in reality one person rarely has a large impact on a movement (like the US belief that Bin Laden made all the bombs himself, and that Col Sanders fries all their chicken). Thaksin is such a character; the chicken fryer of the reds. Problem is though for those that like to sit around saying "Thaksin this, Thaksin that blah blah bad evil blah" is that actually they miss the point. There are 10m involved in this now. They all have different needs and wants but they do actually seem to have one thing in common; they are fed up with the BS elitist "awwww lets have a coup to protect our position" nonces and I would argue that this is relatively a new phenomenon here. Coup - Yellow shirt ralley - swiftly followed by not only a massive (and destructive) movement of people willing to put their lives on the line for the cause, and then a landslide election won by, lets face it, a cute chick. My point is convoluted but I would guess that one day this will over take Thaksin. He is the Col Sanders; the face on the poster; will he return like the Ayatollah Khomeini to his adoring masses? I doubt it but I have the distinct impression that the next coup will not be met lying down; and personally, I'll be out of town by then.

[metisdead]

Some off topic bickering posts, libelous posts, inflammatory posts, and replies have been removed.

[volk666]

"Some people might say that some elected people are embarrassing. They are seen to be people from the lower section of society, but they are elected, and that's legitimate,"

I like this woman. The fact is that the world likes a baddie to pin the tail on when in reality one person rarely has a large impact on a movement (like the US belief that Bin Laden made all the bombs himself, and that Col Sanders fries all their chicken). Thaksin is such a character; the chicken fryer of the reds. Problem is though for those that like to sit around saying "Thaksin this, Thaksin that blah blah bad evil blah" is that actually they miss the point. There are 10m involved in this now. They all have different needs and wants but they do actually seem to have one thing in common; they are fed up with the BS elitist "awwww lets have a coup to protect our position" nonces and I would argue that this is relatively a new phenomenon here. Coup - Yellow shirt ralley - swiftly followed by not only a massive (and destructive) movement of people willing to put their lives on the line for the cause, and then a landslide election won by, lets face it, a cute chick. My point is convoluted but I would guess that one day this will over take Thaksin. He is the Col Sanders; the face on the poster; will he return like the Ayatollah Khomeini to his adoring masses? I doubt it but I have the distinct impression that the next coup will not be met lying down; and personally, I'll be out of town by then.

You are probably not aware of the amount of Thaksin's money at stake. Years ago people made calculations, they can cover the entire Isan in thousand baht notes or stuck them up higher than the tallest building in the world.

People who believe it's all about symbolism are about to fall for the greatest con of all times.

"Some people might say that some elected people are embarrassing. They are seen to be people from the lower section of society, but they are elected, and that's legitimate,"

This quote is interesting. It shows that Thida is stuck in twenty year old thinking patterns as the idea is lifted from an old book and she doesn't realize that her opponents do not think like that anymore.

Twenty years ago provincial MPs were seen as embarrassing because they couldn't use knife and fork, now they are seen as embarrassing because of the dirty ways they used to get in power. Challenge to their legitimacy has nothing to do with their social standing.

[Skywalker69]

Hey Mr. Birdpoo, if you lived in a red shirt village, you will then know what was and IS going on. Get out more, mix with the nutters who you love too much, maybe then you will begin to understand more. The reds want an end to military coups because it's the only way they can keep total control. Regarding the poll-about popularity ----2,000-out of 60 million and 20% of provinces Ha Ha Ha, I live amongst them, and there is unrest regarding, what they havent got AND food prices----This is gospel, reds are grumbling now.

Mr. Birdpoo.

[volk666]

They only tinker around the edges of democracy in Thailand because the Privy Council controls the government / military at the end of the day, once the citizens of Thailand get freedom of speech and freedom of the media then Thailand will slowly begin to get democracy, and conceivably be able to keep the powerful military in check and prevent any more military coups.

And we have to remember when Abhisit was in power Thailand shot up the global corruption table thanks to him and his dishonest corrupt cronies’ time we had an honest chap like Thaksin back so we can cut the corruption back down to acceptable levels with only one person with his hand in the honey jar.

Actually, Thailand shot up the corruption "perception" tables. Those tables are taken from summaries of reports and surveys over the previous 18 months, and the year that Thailand shot up the tables was when the Democrats had been in power for less than 12 months. Also, being a "perception index", it is how corruption is perceived, which means how much people are aware of corruption. Following Thaksin's downfall and the court cases against him, people were a lot more aware of the corruption in Thailand. That doesn't mean that it was any worse than before. It just means people talked about it more. And one thing that the producers of this index state, is that you can't compare the CPI year on year because of different surveys being used to make up the index each year.

Current government makes a man who cheated on taxes and lied in court as their role model for country's education and they think Abhisit is the problem???

I mean, time heals everything and all, but Thaksin was seen talking on national TV about owning the property that was swindled from the temple after a dying woman donated it, only a few months later he "honestly forgot" to include this property on the list of his assets.

Today he still flies around the world and invests in businesses all over with mysterious money he never had in the first place.

Yeah, and Abhisit is the source of corruption...

[hellodolly]

On the previous pages people here argued whether Thida is a politician or not and it seemed important at the moment because attaching this label establishes certain boundaries on what she would and wouldn't do.

Would a politician take to arms in his fight for power? Thida would.

Would a politician abide by the laws of the country at least in public? Thida wouldn't.

Her visions for the country evoke images of a totalitarian state rather than democracy as she assumes that only a strong, powerful majority has any legitimacy to rule and voice opinions. Due to her marxist indoctrination she seems incapable of envisioning a pluralist state where ideas are discussed on their merits and not on who proposes them.

Whether her ideas take hold in the long term is anybody's guess, personally I think they won't go anywhere, but it's their short term goal - bringing back Thaksin and giving him back all his billions that is the source of worry.

Thida might be striving for it but I, and I'm sure many others, too, are simply not in the mood for a revolution overturning many of the fundamental principles holding this country together.

There are many arguments that the existing Thai society is not up to the standards of modern civilization but that doesn't mean completely destroying it is the best course of action. Red shirts have demonstrated that they are quite capable of raising it to the ground, that's the easiest part anyway, it's the successful rebuilding that will determine whether it was worth the effort or not.

Americans tried this in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past ten years and failed miserably even with the help of all their Nato allies. What are Thida's capabilities by comparison?

Thida and her ilk have absolutely no idea what it takes to build a country in a fair and just manner. They are just big scale conmen on a quest for power. Trust them at your own risk.

The red shirts couldn't even clean up the debris they left after their camp out in Downtown Bangkok how do they figure they could tackle running a government. They are like a ship with no Captain just a crew of wannabes,

Like it or not they are stuck with the PT even though they are being let down on all the promises. They have no where else to go. They made their bed and are finally wakening up to the facts that the sheets are not fine linen.

It is a shame that they had enough power to overcome the wishes of the majority.

[volk666]

The red shirts couldn't even clean up the debris they left after their camp out in Downtown Bangkok how do they figure they could tackle running a government. They are like a ship with no Captain just a crew of wannabes,

Like it or not they are stuck with the PT even though they are being let down on all the promises. They have no where else to go. They made their bed and are finally wakening up to the facts that the sheets are not fine linen.

It is a shame that they had enough power to overcome the wishes of the majority.

These are the lessons that need to be learned, the country can't skip them and it can't learn from others' mistakes - European/American history is just too far removed from Thailand's.

All in all, Thailand is not doing too bad considering the scale of the undertaking.

Malaysia and Indonesia aren't doing too bad either but people singing glories of Vietnam and even China tend to ignore that they haven't yet faced the structural problems like Thailand is going through now.

Let's see how China and Vietnam manage transition from Communist party rule first, then consider blaming Thailand.

[tlansford]

No evasion whatsoever of what I posted initially.

If you tried to reply to that instead of something else that you imply but was never said, you might see that.

Then do you accept that this government is entirely legitimate and that, notwithstanding some irregularities, was fairly elected by the Thai people?

Irregularities like five years of billionaire funded agitation, propaganda and terror to destabilise the government?

Not my idea of democracy.

5 years?

dems formed the govt in Dec 2009 and lost the election in July 2011...

That was a fast 5 years.

[tlansford]

On the previous pages people here argued whether Thida is a politician or not and it seemed important at the moment because attaching this label establishes certain boundaries on what she would and wouldn't do.

Would a politician take to arms in his fight for power? Thida would.

Would a politician abide by the laws of the country at least in public? Thida wouldn't.

Her visions for the country evoke images of a totalitarian state rather than democracy as she assumes that only a strong, powerful majority has any legitimacy to rule and voice opinions. Due to her marxist indoctrination she seems incapable of envisioning a pluralist state where ideas are discussed on their merits and not on who proposes them.

Whether her ideas take hold in the long term is anybody's guess, personally I think they won't go anywhere, but it's their short term goal - bringing back Thaksin and giving him back all his billions that is the source of worry.

Thida might be striving for it but I, and I'm sure many others, too, are simply not in the mood for a revolution overturning many of the fundamental principles holding this country together.

There are many arguments that the existing Thai society is not up to the standards of modern civilization but that doesn't mean completely destroying it is the best course of action. Red shirts have demonstrated that they are quite capable of raising it to the ground, that's the easiest part anyway, it's the successful rebuilding that will determine whether it was worth the effort or not.

Americans tried this in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past ten years and failed miserably even with the help of all their Nato allies. What are Thida's capabilities by comparison?

Thida and her ilk have absolutely no idea what it takes to build a country in a fair and just manner. They are just big scale conmen on a quest for power. Trust them at your own risk.

The red shirts couldn't even clean up the debris they left after their camp out in Downtown Bangkok how do they figure they could tackle running a government. They are like a ship with no Captain just a crew of wannabes,

Like it or not they are stuck with the PT even though they are being let down on all the promises. They have no where else to go. They made their bed and are finally wakening up to the facts that the sheets are not fine linen.

It is a shame that they had enough power to overcome the wishes of the majority.

"The red shirts couldn't even clean up the debris they left after their camp out in Downtown Bangkok"

you mean that little camping trip in 2010? You must be joking. That was cleaned up by the army - body bags and all.

[noitom]

What do they actually stand for - the Red Shirts? Let's start seeing some actual economic, social, and development agenda. Make it professional doable points:

1. ?

2. ?

3. ?

4. ?

Get them prioritized, realistic, and funde with identifiable tax money.

[Buchholz]

No evasion whatsoever of what I posted initially.

If you tried to reply to that instead of something else that you imply but was never said, you might see that.

Then do you accept that this government is entirely legitimate and that, notwithstanding some irregularities, was fairly elected by the Thai people?

Irregularities like five years of billionaire funded agitation, propaganda and terror to destabilise the government?

Not my idea of democracy.

5 years?

dems formed the govt in Dec 2009 and lost the election in July 2011...

That was a fast 5 years.

Count from July 2007.

.

[sparebox2]

The 2006 coup was a good coup. A very good coup.

Even the US love it.

[ianf]

Thaksin's primary objective is to secure control of the army, if/when that is achieved, her usefulness will be marginal at best.

Thaksin has been using the Red Shirts as his army that fights for his and his clan's interests. He had a number of generals / ex-generals (of whom General Khattiya Sawasdipol was the most prominent) to mastermind the riots and to supply military weapons, and Red Shirt leaders to mobilize and motivate them. The article Rogue generals on Thaksin's payroll cry for final showdown describes the plan, and accurately predicted the 2010 riots months in advance.

Once he gets hold of a real army (The Royal Thai Military), he would have less need to have the Red Shirts as his army.

Just as it is expected in a war that some soldiers will die, Thaksin and the generals expected, and probably hoped, that some of the useful idiots will die. However, unlike how soldiers are often seen to die for a noble cause (e.g. defending their country from invasion), 91 people died for the ignoble selfish interests of Thaksin. It disgusts me that people support a megalomaniac who has no qualms about sending people to their possible deaths just for him. Those people who derive an income on the internet to defend this ruthless madman, denigrate his opponents, and neutralize negative sentiment should really think about what they are doing.

What a brilliant post.

[hellodolly]

On the previous pages people here argued whether Thida is a politician or not and it seemed important at the moment because attaching this label establishes certain boundaries on what she would and wouldn't do.

Would a politician take to arms in his fight for power? Thida would.

Would a politician abide by the laws of the country at least in public? Thida wouldn't.

Her visions for the country evoke images of a totalitarian state rather than democracy as she assumes that only a strong, powerful majority has any legitimacy to rule and voice opinions. Due to her marxist indoctrination she seems incapable of envisioning a pluralist state where ideas are discussed on their merits and not on who proposes them.

Whether her ideas take hold in the long term is anybody's guess, personally I think they won't go anywhere, but it's their short term goal - bringing back Thaksin and giving him back all his billions that is the source of worry.

Thida might be striving for it but I, and I'm sure many others, too, are simply not in the mood for a revolution overturning many of the fundamental principles holding this country together.

There are many arguments that the existing Thai society is not up to the standards of modern civilization but that doesn't mean completely destroying it is the best course of action. Red shirts have demonstrated that they are quite capable of raising it to the ground, that's the easiest part anyway, it's the successful rebuilding that will determine whether it was worth the effort or not.

Americans tried this in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past ten years and failed miserably even with the help of all their Nato allies. What are Thida's capabilities by comparison?

Thida and her ilk have absolutely no idea what it takes to build a country in a fair and just manner. They are just big scale conmen on a quest for power. Trust them at your own risk.

The red shirts couldn't even clean up the debris they left after their camp out in Downtown Bangkok how do they figure they could tackle running a government. They are like a ship with no Captain just a crew of wannabes,

Like it or not they are stuck with the PT even though they are being let down on all the promises. They have no where else to go. They made their bed and are finally wakening up to the facts that the sheets are not fine linen.

It is a shame that they had enough power to overcome the wishes of the majority.

"The red shirts couldn't even clean up the debris they left after their camp out in Downtown Bangkok"

you mean that little camping trip in 2010? You must be joking. That was cleaned up by the army - body bags and all.

Typical red shirt answer. The garbage was cleaned up by the city and hundreds of volunteers. Yes some of the volunteers could have been army personnel. the reason the you people did nothing was because you thought all the havoc you brought on had nothing to do with your actions, And lacking civic spirit you were going to have nothing to do with the clean up.

[tlansford]

On the previous pages people here argued whether Thida is a politician or not and it seemed important at the moment because attaching this label establishes certain boundaries on what she would and wouldn't do.

Would a politician take to arms in his fight for power? Thida would.

Would a politician abide by the laws of the country at least in public? Thida wouldn't.

Her visions for the country evoke images of a totalitarian state rather than democracy as she assumes that only a strong, powerful majority has any legitimacy to rule and voice opinions. Due to her marxist indoctrination she seems incapable of envisioning a pluralist state where ideas are discussed on their merits and not on who proposes them.

Whether her ideas take hold in the long term is anybody's guess, personally I think they won't go anywhere, but it's their short term goal - bringing back Thaksin and giving him back all his billions that is the source of worry.

Thida might be striving for it but I, and I'm sure many others, too, are simply not in the mood for a revolution overturning many of the fundamental principles holding this country together.

There are many arguments that the existing Thai society is not up to the standards of modern civilization but that doesn't mean completely destroying it is the best course of action. Red shirts have demonstrated that they are quite capable of raising it to the ground, that's the easiest part anyway, it's the successful rebuilding that will determine whether it was worth the effort or not.

Americans tried this in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past ten years and failed miserably even with the help of all their Nato allies. What are Thida's capabilities by comparison?

Thida and her ilk have absolutely no idea what it takes to build a country in a fair and just manner. They are just big scale conmen on a quest for power. Trust them at your own risk.

The red shirts couldn't even clean up the debris they left after their camp out in Downtown Bangkok how do they figure they could tackle running a government. They are like a ship with no Captain just a crew of wannabes,

Like it or not they are stuck with the PT even though they are being let down on all the promises. They have no where else to go. They made their bed and are finally wakening up to the facts that the sheets are not fine linen.

It is a shame that they had enough power to overcome the wishes of the majority.

"The red shirts couldn't even clean up the debris they left after their camp out in Downtown Bangkok"

you mean that little camping trip in 2010? You must be joking. That was cleaned up by the army - body bags and all.

Typical red shirt answer. The garbage was cleaned up by the city and hundreds of volunteers. Yes some of the volunteers could have been army personnel. the reason the you people did nothing was because you thought all the havoc you brought on had nothing to do with your actions, And lacking civic spirit you were going to have nothing to do with the clean up.

it is perfectly clear that you missed the point.

[billd766]

And whether or not anything ever gets proven, be interested to know if Mr birdpoo seriously is of the belief that Thaksin bears no responsibility for the events on the streets of Bangkok in 2009 and 2010.

He was inexorably linked by the fact they were rightfully protesting about his illegal deposition as PM.

Which would be absolutely correct if he actually WAS the PM at the time. However he had submitted his resignation to HM the King and said that he was finished with politics.

http://www.scoop.co....0604/S00075.htm

Thursday, 6 April 2006, 7:10 am

Article: Richard S. Ehrlich

Thailand's PM Thaksin Shinawatra Resigns

by Richard S. Ehrlich

BANGKOK, Thailand -- Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra resigned on Wednesday (April 5), and appointed a loyal colleague, to end anti-Thaksin street protests before the June arrival of the world's kings, queens and other royalty to honor Thailand's revered monarch.

Thaksin named Justice Minister Chitchai Wannasathit, who is also a deputy prime minister and former police general, as this Southeast Asian nation's interim prime minister.

Chitchai, 59, received a Ph.D. in Justice Administration in 1976 from the University of Louisville, Kentucky, according to his official biography.

Chitchai, considered a close friend of Thaksin, has extensive police experience including previous posts as Immigration Commissioner, Secretary-General of the Narcotics Control Board, and Interior Minister.

"I have appointed Chitchai to do my work from now on. I need to rest," Thaksin told the nation on Wednesday (April 5).

"It's not that I'm not willing to fight, but when I fight, the nation loses," Thaksin said.

"I don't need to see bloodshed among Thais. Thai blood must not paint the land of Thailand."

Thais cautiously welcomed Thaksin's solution to the past two months of anti-Thaksin street demonstrations, amid speculation he may manipulate the country behind the scenes, or stage a comeback after June.

Edited May 7, 2012 by billd766

[ginjag]

tianford #139. your answer to hello dolly,  it is you that doe's not fit in the neutral space, if so you would not persistently back up MOST of the red shirt actions of late and present.   Answering the comment you made (without thinking normal) It was even foreigners plus residents, volunteers and some army that helped to clear Bkk.  NOT YOU  or any bus loads of fleeing reds, or big Thaksin dollars,  you missed the point by giving the army a swipe, and commenting about body bags not knowing who were in them. Don't believe all you are told, better get out amongst them, look for yourself. then comment. I do live amongst them every day, most of them are red sheep, lost and have no future, the ones you favour are the hard nutters, the stirrers and the fanatics that are chasing a leader who doesn't now want to know them, not now they are IN.....power...the family.

[animatic]

"Whoever takes the people's side is on our side. If you reject military coups, you are one of us," she said.

I would suggest that there would be a quite a few that are on the people's side and reject military coups but that do NOT support the red shirts.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Indeed quite true.

[Crushdepth]

No evasion whatsoever of what I posted initially.

If you tried to reply to that instead of something else that you imply but was never said, you might see that.

Then do you accept that this government is entirely legitimate and that, notwithstanding some irregularities, was fairly elected by the Thai people?

Irregularities like five years of billionaire funded agitation, propaganda and terror to destabilise the government?

Not my idea of democracy.

5 years?

dems formed the govt in Dec 2009 and lost the election in July 2011...

That was a fast 5 years.

Thaksin has been agitating since was thrown out, or has it escaped your notice?

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[tlansford]

tianford #139. your answer to hello dolly, it is you that doe's not fit in the neutral space, if so you would not persistently back up MOST of the red shirt actions of late and present. Answering the comment you made (without thinking normal) It was even foreigners plus residents, volunteers and some army that helped to clear Bkk. NOT YOU or any bus loads of fleeing reds, or big Thaksin dollars, you missed the point by giving the army a swipe, and commenting about body bags not knowing who were in them. Don't believe all you are told, better get out amongst them, look for yourself. then comment. I do live amongst them every day, most of them are red sheep, lost and have no future, the ones you favour are the hard nutters, the stirrers and the fanatics that are chasing a leader who doesn't now want to know them, not now they are IN.....power...the family.

bash when needed - the point is beyond most of the red-haters on this forum.

After a 6 day assault by the military with a final day/night of killings, Hellodolly wants the red shirts to clean up the streets of BKK - that is f*ckin insane.

But par for the course here on TVF.

I no longer expect any intelligent debate from the usual suspects. Just more hyperbole, misdirection, misinformation, venom and hatred as I have read here for the last 2 years.

You guys make me sick.

[Skywalker69]

What the red shirts attempted whilst Abhisit was in power was to cut short his term by force, by violence, by intimidation. It wasn't democratic. In many ways it was much like a coup attempt. If they had respect for democracy, they would have said, "ok, we don't like the way that Abhisit came to power, but we will respect the democratic principles we preach, and will demonstrate this not by taking to the streets with arms and burning things down, but by trying to get him removed within the law and via the courts, and if this fails, we will simply campaign hard and make sure he is not re-elected at the next election".

It must be pointed out that it was the government who 'took to the streets with arms'and only then did the red shirts start to burn things down.

And the Red Shirts was armed just for fun?

[hellodolly]

On the previous pages people here argued whether Thida is a politician or not and it seemed important at the moment because attaching this label establishes certain boundaries on what she would and wouldn't do.

Would a politician take to arms in his fight for power? Thida would.

Would a politician abide by the laws of the country at least in public? Thida wouldn't.

Her visions for the country evoke images of a totalitarian state rather than democracy as she assumes that only a strong, powerful majority has any legitimacy to rule and voice opinions. Due to her marxist indoctrination she seems incapable of envisioning a pluralist state where ideas are discussed on their merits and not on who proposes them.

Whether her ideas take hold in the long term is anybody's guess, personally I think they won't go anywhere, but it's their short term goal - bringing back Thaksin and giving him back all his billions that is the source of worry.

Thida might be striving for it but I, and I'm sure many others, too, are simply not in the mood for a revolution overturning many of the fundamental principles holding this country together.

There are many arguments that the existing Thai society is not up to the standards of modern civilization but that doesn't mean completely destroying it is the best course of action. Red shirts have demonstrated that they are quite capable of raising it to the ground, that's the easiest part anyway, it's the successful rebuilding that will determine whether it was worth the effort or not.

Americans tried this in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past ten years and failed miserably even with the help of all their Nato allies. What are Thida's capabilities by comparison?

Thida and her ilk have absolutely no idea what it takes to build a country in a fair and just manner. They are just big scale conmen on a quest for power. Trust them at your own risk.

"The red shirts couldn't even clean up the debris they left after their camp out in Downtown Bangkok"

you mean that little camping trip in 2010? You must be joking. That was cleaned up by the army - body bags and all.

Typical red shirt answer. The garbage was cleaned up by the city and hundreds of volunteers. Yes some of the volunteers could have been army personnel. the reason the you people did nothing was because you thought all the havoc you brought on had nothing to do with your actions, And lacking civic spirit you were going to have nothing to do with the clean up.

it is perfectly clear that you missed the point.

No I got your point they were kind enough to help with bodies and maybe some of the other garbage.

You entirely missed my point. They took over a area drove small businessmen out of the area caused the means of the livelihood to many to go on hold for a long period of time tried to burn the area down and when it finally got through to them that the world was not going to kiss there rear and Thaksin stopped their checks they got the government to give them a free ride home and did not one thing to clean up the mess. I guess they figured that was work below them.

You travel in with a great group of people.

[Skywalker69]

Thanks.That's more or less the predicted line from the usual suspects, denying the present government's electoral legitimacy.

There were massive vote buying or there were not? Tell me!

Is an election where 3/4 of the people are approached with money offers for voting the "right" party democratic or not democratic in your opinion?

If the Democrats would go around in the North and North East and just double what Thaksin pays and than win the election, would you also agree that it is perfect democratic or is it only OK if the party you like wins?

Vote buying is wrong whoever is responsible, as are other electoral irregularities.However no serious source argues that the last election in Thailand was unfair or unrepresentative overall.Your earlier post taking a different view is typical of a discredited extremist camp that hates the idea of genuine democracy.

It´s was also wrong to pay people to create havoc in Bangkok.

This link shows Red Shirts getting paid.

[Skywalker69]

And whether or not anything ever gets proven, be interested to know if Mr birdpoo seriously is of the belief that Thaksin bears no responsibility for the events on the streets of Bangkok in 2009 and 2010.

He was inexorably linked by the fact they were rightfully protesting about his illegal deposition as PM.

Which would be absolutely correct if he actually WAS the PM at the time. However he had submitted his resignation to HM the King and said that he was finished with politics.

http://www.scoop.co....0604/S00075.htm

Thursday, 6 April 2006, 7:10 am

Article: Richard S. Ehrlich

Thailand's PM Thaksin Shinawatra Resigns

by Richard S. Ehrlich

BANGKOK, Thailand -- Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra resigned on Wednesday (April 5), and appointed a loyal colleague, to end anti-Thaksin street protests before the June arrival of the world's kings, queens and other royalty to honor Thailand's revered monarch.

Thaksin named Justice Minister Chitchai Wannasathit, who is also a deputy prime minister and former police general, as this Southeast Asian nation's interim prime minister.

Chitchai, 59, received a Ph.D. in Justice Administration in 1976 from the University of Louisville, Kentucky, according to his official biography.

Chitchai, considered a close friend of Thaksin, has extensive police experience including previous posts as Immigration Commissioner, Secretary-General of the Narcotics Control Board, and Interior Minister.

"I have appointed Chitchai to do my work from now on. I need to rest," Thaksin told the nation on Wednesday (April 5).

"It's not that I'm not willing to fight, but when I fight, the nation loses," Thaksin said.

"I don't need to see bloodshed among Thais. Thai blood must not paint the land of Thailand."

Thais cautiously welcomed Thaksin's solution to the past two months of anti-Thaksin street demonstrations, amid speculation he may manipulate the country behind the scenes, or stage a comeback after June.

"I have appointed Chitchai to do my work from now on. I need to rest,"

And last year he appointed his sister to do his "work"

Edited May 7, 2012 by Skywalker69

[ginjag]

Tiansford,  Your onesided look at the siege of BKK, just sums things up, your red arm--should say brown arm, makes the independent posters SICK, I could just see it now had control not taken place==oh my god I wonder what would have happened if no one had got them out.  So forget the army of KILLERS as you seem to think, no police around, it woulld and could have ended in a bkk massacre --of thousands--street fighting.  Come down from your high horse and try to see all sides, I cannot understand anyone who sees Abhisit(no saint) army (not blameless) as the villains ---and your flavour of the month reds-PT-Thaksin family. to me none are great-but your lot take the biscuit, sick for sure.

[GentlemanJim]

tianford #139. your answer to hello dolly, it is you that doe's not fit in the neutral space, if so you would not persistently back up MOST of the red shirt actions of late and present. Answering the comment you made (without thinking normal) It was even foreigners plus residents, volunteers and some army that helped to clear Bkk. NOT YOU or any bus loads of fleeing reds, or big Thaksin dollars, you missed the point by giving the army a swipe, and commenting about body bags not knowing who were in them. Don't believe all you are told, better get out amongst them, look for yourself. then comment. I do live amongst them every day, most of them are red sheep, lost and have no future, the ones you favour are the hard nutters, the stirrers and the fanatics that are chasing a leader who doesn't now want to know them, not now they are IN.....power...the family.

bash when needed - the point is beyond most of the red-haters on this forum.

After a 6 day assault by the military with a final day/night of killings, Hellodolly wants the red shirts to clean up the streets of BKK - that is f*ckin insane.

But par for the course here on TVF.

I no longer expect any intelligent debate from the usual suspects. Just more hyperbole, misdirection, misinformation, venom and hatred as I have read here for the last 2 years.

You guys make me sick.

The point was not missed, you just didn't put it across.

The only one who is lacking intelligent debate in all of this is you. I find it quite remarkable that someone who clearly displays an above average ability to communicate and grasp 'other' global current affairs, is so absolutely blind to what has transpired under Thaksin and all of the events of the protest, wrong RIOT in 2010. You either purposely bait for some sick attempt at providing yourself with humour, or you are not the intelligent person behind many of your posts? Is it possible some co worker or your gardner has got hold of your password or are there really two of you? very Robert L Stevensonish, and no I am not talking of any Islands.