Hollande Elected French President – Interior Min.

[Steely Dan]

Hollande impresses me as a very solid, sober, mature politician. I think he shows promise as a leader no matter your ideology. If nothing else, Franco-Dutch relations should be better than ever!

I guess you might be correct except for 93% of French Nationals in Israel voted for Sarkozy.

Not sure why this is relevant. An even higher percentage of Israelis dislike Obama. Yes, I realize many French Jews don't feel safe in France anymore but that's not exactly a major political issue for France.

I only mention it because you said, "he shows promise as a leader no matter your ideology" Apparently that is not the case if your ideology is Jewish. Francois Hollande, a socialist with heavy ties to anti-Israel populations.

... Who got in with a small majority leaving guess who as the swing vote thus ensuring a disproportionate say in French policy.

[kerryk]

I think the new French President's attitude towards Iran and Israel is certainly fair game to discuss.

[folium]

I think this is a good result for France. Sarkozy deserved to lose.

Hollande has been quoted as saying he 'hates the wealthy', so no surprises if you get the politics of envy fueled by cynical gerrymandering of the electorate as those who can leave in droves to be replaced by those who can't. It's been the sad tale of Eurabia for decades now, only the speed of decline increases with a socialist in charge.

P.S And as a side issue Europe will be losing the most hawkish voice with respect to Iran for someone in hoc to his natural voting constituency.

Hollande and his 75% tax rate is classic socialist party symbolism and will impact less than 3000 households earning over 1million euros, and they will employ decent tax accountants to "soften" the blow anyway. Can't see a mass exodus of the wealthy.

France has always been a immigrant nation (eg Hollande & Sarkozy) and that continues today with most immigrants arriving from other european nations or former colonies. The muslim population of France is currently 7.5% and is projected by Pew Research to peak at 10.3% in 2030. France has one of the higher birth rates in Europe (just over 2.0), and a continued diverse flow of immigrants is expected (especially now restrictions on E.European immigrants has been lifted) Not much scope for Eurabia happening in France.

[folium]

... Who got in with a small majority leaving guess who as the swing vote thus ensuring a disproportionate say in French policy.

interesting AP article:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/french-muslims-get-call-to-vote-for-president/article2418022/page2/

Treating all French muslims in terms of their political activity and allegiances as a single bloc is simplistic and contrived. Perhaps the 17.9% of voters who picked Le Pen in the first round had far more of a disproportionate impact on the election.

[rakman]

I think this is a good result for France. Sarkozy deserved to lose.

Hollande has been quoted as saying he 'hates the wealthy', so no surprises if you get the politics of envy fueled by cynical gerrymandering of the electorate as those who can leave in droves to be replaced by those who can't. It's been the sad tale of Eurabia for decades now, only the speed of decline increases with a socialist in charge.

P.S And as a side issue Europe will be losing the most hawkish voice with respect to Iran for someone in hoc to his natural voting constituency.

Hollande and his 75% tax rate is classic socialist party symbolism and will impact less than 3000 households earning over 1million euros, and they will employ decent tax accountants to "soften" the blow anyway. Can't see a mass exodus of the wealthy.

France has always been a immigrant nation (eg Hollande & Sarkozy) and that continues today with most immigrants arriving from other european nations or former colonies. The muslim population of France is currently 7.5% and is projected by Pew Research to peak at 10.3% in 2030. France has one of the higher birth rates in Europe (just over 2.0), and a continued diverse flow of immigrants is expected (especially now restrictions on E.European immigrants has been lifted) Not much scope for Eurabia happening in France.

There are news reports of very large increase of French interest in Canada and the UK by wealthy French.

The problem with the birth rate in France is the natives are down to < 1.9% and the immigrants are around the 2.9% level. Possibly, as the immigrants become more wealthy, their birthrate often drops.

[folium]

I think this is a good result for France. Sarkozy deserved to lose.

Hollande has been quoted as saying he 'hates the wealthy', so no surprises if you get the politics of envy fueled by cynical gerrymandering of the electorate as those who can leave in droves to be replaced by those who can't. It's been the sad tale of Eurabia for decades now, only the speed of decline increases with a socialist in charge.

P.S And as a side issue Europe will be losing the most hawkish voice with respect to Iran for someone in hoc to his natural voting constituency.

Hollande and his 75% tax rate is classic socialist party symbolism and will impact less than 3000 households earning over 1million euros, and they will employ decent tax accountants to "soften" the blow anyway. Can't see a mass exodus of the wealthy.

France has always been a immigrant nation (eg Hollande & Sarkozy) and that continues today with most immigrants arriving from other european nations or former colonies. The muslim population of France is currently 7.5% and is projected by Pew Research to peak at 10.3% in 2030. France has one of the higher birth rates in Europe (just over 2.0), and a continued diverse flow of immigrants is expected (especially now restrictions on E.European immigrants has been lifted) Not much scope for Eurabia happening in France.

There are news reports of very large increase of French interest in Canada and the UK by wealthy French.

The problem with the birth rate in France is the natives are down to < 1.9% and the immigrants are around the 2.9% level. Possibly, as the immigrants become more wealthy, their birthrate often drops.

http://www.pewforum.org/future-of-the-global-muslim-population-regional-europe.aspx

According to the above the French Muslim immigrant fertility rates drop from 2.8 to 2.4 from 2010-2030, while non muslim fertility rate stays the same at 1.9. Don't forget the significant number of non muslim immigrants to France especially E.Europeans. Polish immigrants to the UK have had a material impact on fertility rates there.

Moving to the UK would only have a minor tax advantage for most top rate earners, though thousands have already made the move (must be the food). With an estimated 300,000 French nationals London is France's 7th largest city.

While Montreal might see itself as the Paris of N.America, few real Parisians would agree after a few months!

Edited May 7, 2012 by folium

[Jingthing]

Hollande impresses me as a very solid, sober, mature politician. I think he shows promise as a leader no matter your ideology. If nothing else, Franco-Dutch relations should be better than ever!

I guess you might be correct except for 93% of French Nationals in Israel voted for Sarkozy.

Not sure why this is relevant. An even higher percentage of Israelis dislike Obama. Yes, I realize many French Jews don't feel safe in France anymore but that's not exactly a major political issue for France.

I only mention it because you said, "he shows promise as a leader no matter your ideology" Apparently that is not the case if your ideology is Jewish. Francois Hollande, a socialist with heavy ties to anti-Israel populations.

Jewish is not an ideology. I'm also rather certain that French Jews who migrate to Israel are not the same politically as French Jews who are staying.

[kerryk]

Sorry JT I thought Jewish was an ideology and that the French Jews were the same regardless of country of residence.

[Steely Dan]

... Who got in with a small majority leaving guess who as the swing vote thus ensuring a disproportionate say in French policy.

interesting AP article:

http://www.theglobea...e2418022/page2/

Treating all French muslims in terms of their political activity and allegiances as a single bloc is simplistic and contrived. Perhaps the 17.9% of voters who picked Le Pen in the first round had far more of a disproportionate impact on the election.

Actually Muslims, when they see a clear Islam friendly candidate do indeed block vote as recent examples in the UK and Norway show. As it is some 80% of UK immigrants vote for Labour, who as you know are Hollande's counterparts, I don't see the French figures being radically different. As for Le Pen, well yes 17.9% racists or bigots according to left wing orthodoxy, of course I don't believe that for a minute, but it does show considerable public discontent. Hollande will indeed have a difficult balancing act if France is not to become increasingly divided and sectarian in it's politics.

P.S I take population predictions with a pinch of salt, but apropos Eurabia, a concept devised by Hollande's predecessors - well it does exist and a document declassified in 2005 proves this.

http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/05/04/u-s-state-department-witnessed-1974-birth-of-eurabia/

[Exsexyman]

On the down side, visiting state leaders won't get to kiss Carla anymore.

Sadly i doubt if Sarkozy will get to kiss the fragrant Carla for much longer either, now that the trappings of being first lady have gone. She will be back on The Rolling Stones tour bus before you know it!

[folium]

On the down side, visiting state leaders won't get to kiss Carla anymore.

Sadly i doubt if Sarkozy will get to kiss the fragrant Carla for much longer either, now that the trappings of being first lady have gone. She will be back on The Rolling Stones tour bus before you know it!

She better be quick as according to an earlier poster all rich people will be bugging out of France quicker than you can say "cheese eating surrender monkeys", and that will include I presume Sir Michael Jagger.

[folium]

Actually Muslims, when they see a clear Islam friendly candidate do indeed block vote as recent examples in the UK and Norway show. As it is some 80% of UK immigrants vote for Labour, who as you know are Hollande's counterparts, I don't see the French figures being radically different. As for Le Pen, well yes 17.9% racists or bigots according to left wing orthodoxy, of course I don't believe that for a minute, but it does show considerable public discontent. Hollande will indeed have a difficult balancing act if France is not to become increasingly divided and sectarian in it's politics.

P.S I take population predictions with a pinch of salt, but apropos Eurabia, a concept devised by Hollande's predecessors - well it does exist and a document declassified in 2005 proves this.

http://www.andrewbos...rth-of-eurabia/

Well the odious "Gorgeous George" Galloway blows your theory out of the water about immigrant (and I presume you mean Asian/muslim immigrants) support automatically falling behind left of centre politicians like Hollande or UK's labour party.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17587660

When you have a Sarkozy tacking hard to the right and taking a strident, anti-immigrant line to win FN votes, no wonder those in his cross hairs have little desire to vote for him.

Apart from a symbolic tweaking of the rich in France, Hollande represents, at least at present, a far less divisive character than Sarkozy. the people have spoken and we have to make the most of Mr Hollande.

Your "evidence" of Eurabia is sadly lacking in that it contains no such thing and put in the context of the dying days of the Franco fascist regime which had a loathing of Israel ( a mutual feeling from Israel's side seeing Franco as a nazi creation, but one enthusiastically supported by the Spanish Catholic church) it hardly amounts to a smoking gun. Read it again...

[Steely Dan]

Well the odious "Gorgeous George" Galloway blows your theory out of the water about immigrant (and I presume you mean Asian/muslim immigrants) support automatically falling behind left of centre politicians like Hollande or UK's labour party.

Au contraire. I stated Muslim populations tend to block vote for an Islam friendly candidate. George Galloway ran his campaign by portraying himself as a better Muslim than the Labour candidate. He was believed in this respect and the useful idiots of Labour were dropped big time. I can see French Muslims, especially in the case of local politics, deserting Hollande the moment they have the numbers to vote and elect a candidate on sectarian grounds. Oslo city Council has a majority of immigrant councilors, which demonstrates perfectly what can be achieved by an organized block vote, Eurabia skeptics take note.

[folium]

Well the odious "Gorgeous George" Galloway blows your theory out of the water about immigrant (and I presume you mean Asian/muslim immigrants) support automatically falling behind left of centre politicians like Hollande or UK's labour party.

Au contraire. I stated Muslim populations tend to block vote for an Islam friendly candidate. George Galloway ran his campaign by portraying himself as a better Muslim than the Labour candidate. He was believed in this respect and the useful idiots of Labour were dropped big time. I can see French Muslims, especially in the case of local politics, deserting Hollande the moment they have the numbers to vote and elect a candidate on sectarian grounds. Oslo city Council has a majority of immigrant councilors, which demonstrates perfectly what can be achieved by an organized block vote, Eurabia skeptics take note.

Militant ran Liverpool City council from 1983-87 and it did not mean they took over the country. Clusters of any group can give them local power, it's a bit of a stretch to extrapolate that to national overthrow. Does the fact that 40% of the population of Dearborn, MI, is Arab make them a fifth column for Amerabia, as suggested by Terry Jones?

[JemJem]

Thankfully, one right-winger's gone !!! I am hoping for the same fate for Merkel in Germany, Putin in Russia and Erdogan in Turkey.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Sarkozy the mastermind of the Libyan attacks that caused a lot of innocent people to get killed, caused Gaddafi to be lynched by a group of barbaric thugs and then left Libya with a whole set of questions about how its future's going to be.

And, his nationalist, right-wing rhetoric was getting too much to bear.

Edited May 9, 2012 by JemJem

[Colin Yai]

Thankfully, one right-winger's gone !!! I am hoping for the same fate for Merkel in Germany, Putin in Russia and Erdogan in Turkey.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Sarkozy the mastermind of the Libyan attacks that caused a lot of innocent people to get killed, caused Gaddafi to be lynched by a group of barbaric thugs and then left Libya with a whole set of questions about how its future's going to be.

And, his nationalist, right-wing rhetoric was getting too much to bear.

Of course Jem Jem you believe in Socialism ,Thats OK Cos I firmly believe in freedom of Political Choice ,and again of course you have cases of Socialism in different Country's were it has been an unbridled Success Story and not an unmitigated failure , and with respect maybe you can produce a few independent links to verify this ,looking forward to reading the links and in closing do you agree with the lefts idea's in France on how to bring the Economy forward? , Me?, I am never afraid to let my beliefs known to all and sundry, my forcast, Economic "meltdown" within 2 years!!. Edited May 9, 2012 by Colin Yai

[harryfrompattaya]

Oh oooh! Big changes, big u-turns, big uncertainties in the markets!

I guess we should all move to South France to get the goodies.

He will be given away the store to all non workers.

France is finished

[harryfrompattaya]

I think the new French President's attitude towards Iran and Israel is certainly fair game to discuss.

I think we should go farther and say nothing to do with Israel in 40 years the majority of people shall be unemployed Moslems and Paris will look like a 4th rate African City.

No way to blame this on the Jews, Goodbye white Christians they will like Christians in Lebanon or Jordon

[Steely Dan]

I think the new French President's attitude towards Iran and Israel is certainly fair game to discuss.

I think we should go farther and say nothing to do with Israel in 40 years the majority of people shall be unemployed Moslems and Paris will look like a 4th rate African City.

No way to blame this on the Jews, Goodbye white Christians they will like Christians in Lebanon or Jordon

If I were to make a prediction it would be that by the next French general election Marine Le Pen's party will poll around 30% of the vote.

[harryfrompattaya]

I think the new French President's attitude towards Iran and Israel is certainly fair game to discuss.

I think we should go farther and say nothing to do with Israel in 40 years the majority of people shall be unemployed Moslems and Paris will look like a 4th rate African City.

No way to blame this on the Jews, Goodbye white Christians they will like Christians in Lebanon or Jordon

If I were to make a prediction it would be that by the next French general election Marine Le Pen's party will poll around 30% of the vote.

When those Jews leave which they will?

They will have only each other to blame and than the fools will have a good civil war Poor France

[folium]

Poor old France:

Economic meltdown within 2 years

By 2052 the majority of the French population will be unemployed muslims

By 2052 Paris will look like a 4th rate African city

The FN will win 30% of the votes in the next election

Civil war will break out

Well at least the Brits will be happy, though the chances of any of these happening are IMHO slim to none, and there's more chance of me joining the EDL than all of them happening!

[Colin Yai]

Poor old France:

Economic meltdown within 2 years

By 2052 the majority of the French population will be unemployed muslims

By 2052 Paris will look like a 4th rate African city

The FN will win 30% of the votes in the next election

Civil war will break out

Well at least the Brits will be happy, though the chances of any of these happening are IMHO slim to none, and there's more chance of me joining the EDL than all of them happening!

So in essence you are of the opinion that Socialism is"the way to go" no doubt your opinion is enforced by previous "successes" maybe you can produce a link to prove this my colours are nailed firmly to the mast " Economic meltdown" within 2 years ,what's your prediction ?the question is quite simple which of course you will not answer,.Success or Abject failure? Edited May 9, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Colin Yai]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18018445 I just wonder what excuse,s he will be giving when he fails to deliver

[Steely Dan]

Poor old France:

Economic meltdown within 2 years

By 2052 the majority of the French population will be unemployed muslims

By 2052 Paris will look like a 4th rate African city

The FN will win 30% of the votes in the next election

Civil war will break out

Well at least the Brits will be happy, though the chances of any of these happening are IMHO slim to none, and there's more chance of me joining the EDL than all of them happening!

Well lets have a look at the realpolitik for a minute. Hollande was elected principally because the French are sick of austerity. If France were in control of it's own currency the 'solution' would be simply to print money, which eases the pain, much in the way morphine works for a patient with terminal cancer. As it stands Hollande will have to have a word in the ear of chancellor Merkel asking for Germany's consent to print a few billion more Euros, a bit of egalite and fraternity with everyone paying to ease France's woes. Merkel will almost certainly say no and then Hollande will try to raise money on the bond markets. France already has debt at 390% of GDP so this will not be an easy task - watch for French bond yields rising for first signs this is happening.

The result is that Hollande is as lame a duck as the UK Con-Lib coalition and should he try to push his measures through France will go bankrupt. Now with nobody paying the Police and the huge volume of benefits to the underclass you have an incendiary situation.

P.S Spain is even worse off, but I digress. As for joining the EDL, you can now join the British Freedom party as the two have in effect merged, and Paul Weston seems like a nice middle class chap probably more to your taste.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Steely Dan

[Colin Yai]

[media=]

[/media] Yeah Dan ,I never ever thought I would see the Day of so much European disunity within the member states ,and of course France being no different than any one else, or are they?,as stated before I think that this newly elected socialist Government will be a disaster ,its been tried before and been a dismal failure, in fact I think the whole concept of the EU in reality is a sick joke, what are the alternatives?,certainly not this lot of weak kneed clowns we have in power at this moment in time in the UK and as a voting Conservative since 79 it pains me to write this, but however unpalatable for me it's the truth , or Indeed a sharp turn to the left as France is doing , I strongly suggest members(even Mods) view the Video (in its entirety) in this link with an open mind and give their opinions to it. Edited May 11, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Exsexyman]

I think the main thing in Hollande's favour is that he wasn't Sarkozy. A thoroughly treacherous and totally unprincipled individual, who was quite happy to accept millions of dollars from Colonel Ghaddafi to fund his first election campaign, and then led the charge to silence him. Ain't Karma a bitch!

[Jingthing]

I agree it was mostly a backlash against Sarkozy but Hollande doesn't impress me as being especially scary. I know Americans tend to get their knickers in a twist over the word socialist, but this is normal stuff in Europe.

[Colin Yai]

Actually Exsexyman and JT I was looking for a response to Nigel Farage's speech , for me the UK in between the Tory's and the opposition they have both failed,maybe just maybe its high time for a change and give someone a chance who puts us in the UK first .(for a pleasant change) and of course (both of you) if you think for a second that Socialism is the "way to go" just spit it out and say so!

Edited May 11, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Exsexyman]

Actually Exsexyman and JT I was looking for a response to Nigel Farage's speech , for me the UK in between the Tory's and the opposition they have both failed,maybe just maybe its high time for a change and give someone a chance who puts us in the UK first .(for a pleasant change) and of course (both of you) if you think for a second that Socialism is the "way to go" just spit it out and say so!

I can only answer for myself,(i wouldn't dare speak for Jingthing, although i will say i do admire his principled stance on topics like the young black lad who was gunned down in the US). My personal view is that we live in a capitalist world, that is never going to change. Even failed communist regimes like China and Russia have faced that reality, and are coming to terms with it. It is the only game in town, fact. But there are degrees of capitalism, at one end there is what, i think, Harold Macmillan called "The unacceptable face of capitalism", which is what we are seeing now i think, with the unfettered greed for money shown by bankers and their ilk, to the exclusion of the interests of the vast majority. The ilk includes most politicians sadly, as evidenced by the recent expenses scandal. At the other end of the scale there is what is sometimes referred to as caring capitalism, where the interests of the vast majority are taken into consideration. People like nurses, dustmen, roadsweepers etc, who by the very definition of their job do not make a profit for anyone, but do a vital job without which everybody's day to day life would be a lot harder. Also the sick, disabled, mentally ill, even inadequates should be taken care of, there but for the grace of God etc. After all there are more than enough resources to do this if there was a bit less greed from the tiny minority, and a lot less waste from governments, ie spending billions on pointless wars around the globe. As for Hollande, he is clearly no socialist in the true sense of the word, he has three houses for Gods sake, and a few million euros in the bank! Tony Blair called himself a socialist, how laughable is that? I think at the last count he had eight houses and forty odd million quid in the bank. Makes Maggie Thatcher look like Dennis Skinner! So my view is that the word socialism is pretty meaningless really, it is just a word that is sometimes used as a term of abuse by those who wish to denigrate people who have a social conscience, and stick up for and try to improve the lot of the have nots and social minorities. As for Nigel Farage, i like him, is principled, calls it as he sees it, a superb orator. Don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but agree with a lot of it. Realistically though, i think that UKIP will always be a minority party, a receptacle for protest votes. Shame really, because most of what he says makes a lot of sense and it would be interesting to see some of it put into practice. Have you seen the youtube clip of him in the European parliament debate telling President Von Rompuy his pedigree? Hilarious, Von Rompuy's face was priceless as he had to sit there and suck it up!

[Steely Dan]

Yep, seen the clip where Farage takes Von Rompuy apart. The trouble these days with whoever is elected is that there are no true patriots around any more. What I mean by this is someone who enacts policies out of a conviction they are right, not out of expediency, opportunism or out of a desire to hang onto power. It used to be regarded as an honour to govern and if doing the right thing sacrificed popularity so be it.

Forget the Arab spring, or Greece or indeed France, but a remarkable event has happened which has been hushed up by the media as this event terrifies our politicians. I refer to the Icelandic population making it's entire government resign, nationalizing the banks and refusing to pay external debt. Then there is a public assembly to re-write the constitution. If you like a modern Bastille day without the severed heads.

Make no mistake, the Euro may completely unravel, and if it does the unelected bureaucrats of Brussels with their misguided social engineering may collapse leading to the re-birth of many nation states. This is badly needed as cultural identity has been under premeditated assault and this has happened against the will of the people. 2012-13 are going to be interesting.