Can Foreigner Really Own A Land And House?

[Jim77]

I am new here and I would like to ask expert here about buying villa in one of the resort Island in south Thailand.

I have been living in Thailand for 5years and I would like to buy house here but I never get clear information about buying house here.I need more information.

I look through many website for accurate　information and I ask some property agent and counselor(Lawyer) about buying house but there are a few aspect I got confuse.

Some Lawyer said foreigner are not allow to buy land here.They said to me that I can buy a land under Thai limited company name but if the company is established only for land buying purpose, then I will get problem in the future.

But Some Lawyer said there is a way to go around.They said to me that If I report minimum revenue for the company and then Thai Government will never bother me.(The explanation were not clear enough for me to foresee the risk).They also said to me that Thai government has change their law some years ago to prevent incorrect land registration by foreigner, However Thai government has never enforce this law.

I ask them about both purchasing and leasing contract at Land registration office.

Some Lawyer said lease term is limited for only 30years and lessee will have no right to renew lease hold for another 30years(or 30+30)

Some Lawyer said lease term is 30years and lessee will be able to renew it for another 30+30 in the future.

Until now,

I don't have enough information to make my decision for this investment.I would like to know clear accurate information about buying and leasing land.

I understand that there is always a risk for investment. but at least I need to know accurate information to examine the risk.

• How can I safely own a villa(using Thai limited company)?
  
• How existing villa owners are dealing with this matter?
  
• What risk do I have?
  
• Lease hold is good for only 30 years?
  

I appreciate any advice and information.

[surayu]

As far as i can remember there are "special" circumstances on which a foreigner can legally own up to 1 rai of land, one is if the land belongs to your wife, you suddenly become a widow and there is a will in which she leave everything to her beloved hubby in case the worst happen, it's probably better to follow the citizenship way instead.

But if you want a fair deal, probably the best course will be getting an usufruct for life which includes a third party to prevent the wifey to eventually nullify your homework without your comsent...

[Darrel]

Some Lawyer said foreigner are not allow to buy land here.They said to me that I can buy a land under Thai limited company name but if the company is established only for land buying purpose, then I will get problem in the future.

It sounds like you have met an honest lawyer in Thailand. I'm very impressed.

Loads of people with a vested interest (estate agents, lawyers, developers. builders, people with houses to sell) will tell you that as a foreigner you can own houses and land, and they will describe convoluted semi-legal schemes that will give the appearance of allowing you to do so. My personal opinion is that one day these schemes will probably come back and bite them in the bum.

The only property you can own outright in your name in complete legality is a farang-quota condo. You can own a house and lease the land it's on, but of course this isnt property ownership and as you rightly say the lease may not last as long as you might like it to.

Now if there were proper, legal, official 99-year leases that could be sold on then that would be a totally different story and even I might be prepared to buy a house under such circumstances. But there is no such animal.

[Khun Jean]

All you need to know and a resource to verify what others say:

http://www.samuiforsale.com/

[PattayaPhom]

Yes you can for sure legally!!! Set up your company and call it 'Somchais Noodles" When you move into your beautiful villa buy a cheap noodle cart and park it in your shed, make sure you are paying the minimum tax required. If in the unlikely event this millenium you get a visit from any government official just show them the noodle cart...you are as safe as houses because the land is used for a business and you are paying taxes, just hope they dont ask for some take away noodles..I suppose the usual neysayers and skint renters will try and pick holes

[Khun Jean]

Yes you can for sure legally!!! Set up your company and call it 'Somchais Noodles" When you move into your beautiful villa buy a cheap noodle cart and park it in your shed, make sure you are paying the minimum tax required. If in the unlikely event this millenium you get a visit from any government official just show them the noodle cart...you are as safe as houses because the land is used for a business and you are paying taxes, just hope they dont ask for some take away noodles..I suppose the usual neysayers and skint renters will try and pick holes

Be prepared to have a workpermit for your noodle cart.

[PattayaPhom]

Yes you can for sure legally!!! Set up your company and call it 'Somchais Noodles" When you move into your beautiful villa buy a cheap noodle cart and park it in your shed, make sure you are paying the minimum tax required. If in the unlikely event this millenium you get a visit from any government official just show them the noodle cart...you are as safe as houses because the land is used for a business and you are paying taxes, just hope they dont ask for some take away noodles..I suppose the usual neysayers and skint renters will try and pick holes

Be prepared to have a workpermit for your noodle cart.

We all know foreigners couldnt get a WP for selling noodles...hence the name Somchai Noodles.....its a Thai man selling them

[Cobrabiker]

Thousands of foreingners own houses by forming a company, I think if it is not too expensive, and the laywer firm is big, you are quite safe though not 100%, but 99% safer than you put it in your thai girlfriend's name.

[simple1]

Here in Chon Buri there has been a tightening of the law regarding a foreigner using a company entity to acquire access to land, so I would recommend cross checking that approach with your Land Office in case there has been a similar action in your province. Also I have been informed (again cross check) that Usufruct for 30 year lease is not enforceable if you are married to a Thai. Also if you are married with a Thai partner and she dies you have to sell the property, if it's a house, within one year, but must have a Thai Will - can arrange the Will through your local Amphur - obviously obtain an English translation.

[Darrel]

Thousands of foreingners own houses by forming a company....

They sure do.

And thousands of foreigners take drugs here every day. And every now and again they get caught.

That's the risk of doing illegal things; it's all fine until it goes belly-up.

[yoshiwara]

Some Lawyer said foreigner are not allow to buy land here.They said to me that I can buy a land under Thai limited company name but if the company is established only for land buying purpose, then I will get problem in the future.

It sounds like you have met an honest lawyer in Thailand. I'm very impressed.

Loads of people with a vested interest (estate agents, lawyers, developers. builders, people with houses to sell) will tell you that as a foreigner you can own houses and land, and they will describe convoluted semi-legal schemes that will give the appearance of allowing you to do so. My personal opinion is that one day these schemes will probably come back and bite them in the bum.

The only property you can own outright in your name in complete legality is a farang-quota condo. You can own a house and lease the land it's on, but of course this isnt property ownership and as you rightly say the lease may not last as long as you might like it to.

Now if there were proper, legal, official 99-year leases that could be sold on then that would be a totally different story and even I might be prepared to buy a house under such circumstances. But there is no such animal.

The lawyer advice above is as straight as it gets. More than one Thai minister has opined in the past that legal structures constructed to evade the spirit of the law are not safe. The OP should be under no misapprehension that he is taking zero risk by going the company route to purchase a house. The key argument on the other side is that a government will never act to revoke the existing foreign owned company houses as they do not have the resources to carry out such a policy and there is too much money invested ie it will be bad for Thailand. Well on the resources front the government does not have to check up on all company ownerships. All they have to do is instruct the land registry to refuse to register any future company ownerships with a foreigner on the share ownership list. Can be done overnight. And then how much will your house worth?

[Khun Jean]

Thousands of foreingners own houses by forming a company, I think if it is not too expensive, and the laywer firm is big, you are quite safe though not 100%, but 99% safer than you put it in your thai girlfriend's name.

Why always the comparison between a "company" and "in your girlfriends name". Shows a lack of knowledge.

When you do it right it is actually the other way around, except when that girlfriend becomes your wife of course.

The problem is that many people don't know that they don't know.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Khun Jean

[Khun Jean]

Some Lawyer said foreigner are not allow to buy land here.They said to me that I can buy a land under Thai limited company name but if the company is established only for land buying purpose, then I will get problem in the future.

It sounds like you have met an honest lawyer in Thailand. I'm very impressed.

Loads of people with a vested interest (estate agents, lawyers, developers. builders, people with houses to sell) will tell you that as a foreigner you can own houses and land, and they will describe convoluted semi-legal schemes that will give the appearance of allowing you to do so. My personal opinion is that one day these schemes will probably come back and bite them in the bum.

The only property you can own outright in your name in complete legality is a farang-quota condo. You can own a house and lease the land it's on, but of course this isnt property ownership and as you rightly say the lease may not last as long as you might like it to.

Now if there were proper, legal, official 99-year leases that could be sold on then that would be a totally different story and even I might be prepared to buy a house under such circumstances. But there is no such animal.

The lawyer advice above is as straight as it gets. More than one Thai minister has opined in the past that legal structures constructed to evade the spirit of the law are not safe. The OP should be under no misapprehension that he is taking zero risk by going the company route to purchase a house. The key argument on the other side is that a government will never act to revoke the existing foreign owned company houses as they do not have the resources to carry out such a policy and there is too much money invested ie it will be bad for Thailand. Well on the resources front the government does not have to check up on all company ownerships. All they have to do is instruct the land registry to refuse to register any future company ownerships with a foreigner on the share ownership list. Can be done overnight. And then how much will your house worth?

Why would it be bad for Thailand, All the money is ALREADY invested and ownership becomes Thai again. That is a huge ADVANTAGE!

If the government puts a team of 2-3 people on it they can handle thousands because it is very easy to establish if a company is real or only a vehicle to own land. Hundreds of them can be checked every month, sure the follow up is a lot more work, but fines can pay for that.

Own the house, lease/usufruct the land. Otherwise buy a foreign quota condo or rent.

Really it is that simple.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Khun Jean

[yoshiwara]

Some Lawyer said foreigner are not allow to buy land here.They said to me that I can buy a land under Thai limited company name but if the company is established only for land buying purpose, then I will get problem in the future.

It sounds like you have met an honest lawyer in Thailand. I'm very impressed.

Loads of people with a vested interest (estate agents, lawyers, developers. builders, people with houses to sell) will tell you that as a foreigner you can own houses and land, and they will describe convoluted semi-legal schemes that will give the appearance of allowing you to do so. My personal opinion is that one day these schemes will probably come back and bite them in the bum.

The only property you can own outright in your name in complete legality is a farang-quota condo. You can own a house and lease the land it's on, but of course this isnt property ownership and as you rightly say the lease may not last as long as you might like it to.

Now if there were proper, legal, official 99-year leases that could be sold on then that would be a totally different story and even I might be prepared to buy a house under such circumstances. But there is no such animal.

The lawyer advice above is as straight as it gets. More than one Thai minister has opined in the past that legal structures constructed to evade the spirit of the law are not safe. The OP should be under no misapprehension that he is taking zero risk by going the company route to purchase a house. The key argument on the other side is that a government will never act to revoke the existing foreign owned company houses as they do not have the resources to carry out such a policy and there is too much money invested ie it will be bad for Thailand. Well on the resources front the government does not have to check up on all company ownerships. All they have to do is instruct the land registry to refuse to register any future company ownerships with a foreigner on the share ownership list. Can be done overnight. And then how much will your house worth?

Why would it be bad for Thailand, All the money is ALREADY invested and ownership becomes Thai again. That is a huge ADVANTAGE!

If the government puts a team of 2-3 people on it they can handle thousands because it is very easy to establish if a company is real or only a vehicle to own land. Hundreds of them can be checked every month, sure the follow up is a lot more work, but fines can pay for that.

Own the house, lease/usufruct the land. Otherwise buy a foreign quota condo or rent.

Really it is that simple.

A short-term advantage yes in that those with company ownership would have to sell their property to Thais at discounted/distressed prices. The downside is the reputation risk re FDI. However the grab for short-term advantage and the slow drip-drip of the policy playing out might be tasty. Against such a policy would stand the property developers who will whistle up another wheeze if necessary. Some foreigners cannot be dissuaded come hell or high water from owning a house and will play along with whatever wheeze is on the table. I have the impression that the OP will keep asking around until he gets enough people to tell him that it is all OK. And he will succeed at that.

Edited May 30, 2012 by yoshiwara

[Baloo22]

You should take about 15 minutes and watch the following youtube video: [media=]

[/media]

Also, since I don't believe I'm allowed to link directly to his blog, you should do a google search on "andrew drummond" and read some stories there.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Baloo22

[Darrel]

Where would we be without Pattaya's real-estate scammers, bent lawyers and sleazy media magnates?

[Beardog]

That video is a real eye opener!

I never thought that buying any property off a piece of paper without seeing what your getting is a good plan. You have no idea of what your getting to save that 30-40% in the land of scammers. We looked at a housing project that was not yet started back in 2006 That project has the same 1 house built on it that it had back then. I would be more apt to buy a spec house from my home country is as there are laws to protect & bonding companies that pay monies out if problems arise.Kinda tough to get any satisfaction in Thailand when the Authorities are doing well on the backhand payouts.

It's sad but the fellow countryman as they put it are the least trustworthy hiding in smiling faces.Pretty sad! That & a foreigner really can't own land. Nuff said

Edited May 31, 2012 by Beardog

[LennyW]

Thankfully the A-hole scammer lawyers, developers and agents are in the minority here, unfortunately they are the only ones that get plenty press coverage!

[Darrel]

Thankfully the A-hole scammer lawyers, developers and agents are in the minority here.....

One would hope so but I wonder if they really are?

I remain convinced that there is a significantly larger proportion of imported crooks and ne'er-do-wells here than one would find in their home countries, not least because quite a lot of them come here simply because they are wanted in their home countries, or have been convicted too many times there to be able to get any sort of job.

[Cobrabiker]

Thousands of foreingners own houses by forming a company, I think if it is not too expensive, and the laywer firm is big, you are quite safe though not 100%, but 99% safer than you put it in your thai girlfriend's name.

Why always the comparison between a "company" and "in your girlfriends name". Shows a lack of knowledge.

When you do it right it is actually the other way around, except when that girlfriend becomes your wife of course.

The problem is that many people don't know that they don't know.

It is a fact whether you like it or not, many people always assume it is all right to put it in their thai gf or wife's name, until one day, the true colors of their ever charming thai gf change face and kick them out of the house, if you intend to do this, you should consider it as written off in the first place, by digging your head in the sand and assume everything is all right doesn't help! This is just a type of preventive measure for the buyer, do your research! If it has not happen to you yet does not mean it will not happen to you and others.

I once read about a retired man, met a bar girl, showed pity for her and married her, bought land built house in her name, few years later he was kicked out by her, lost over 10 million baht, in the end, his retired life turned into night mare, and rented a small apt and started working again. This happen to many people in LOS and everywhere. So which is better? No brainer rule is to pay some money and set up a company, many foreingers have lost their house, condo by putting their gf name on it whether solely or joined, some of their gf even go to the extend of bribing the officer to change the title from joined name to her name solely and sell away the property when her bf is back home. So which is better, you be the judge!!

Closed!!

Edited May 31, 2012 by Cobrabiker

[simple1]

THE OP was asking about investment advice for a Villa purchase, not about putting property into a "working girl" name.

[Cobrabiker]

Why always the comparison between a "company" and "in your girlfriends name". Shows a lack of knowledge.

When you do it right it is actually the other way around, except when that girlfriend becomes your wife of course.

The problem is that many people don't know that they don't know.

Seems like you know a lot, please show me how you do it right. Hope you are not another empty vessel.

[bendix]

This must be the oldest subject on TV.

There is only one legal way to own land in Thailand as a foreigner, and that is the one rai 40million baht investment route, and even that is subject to ministerial discretion and certain conditions..

There are NO other legal ways to do this.

[Darrel]

There is only one legal way to own land in Thailand as a foreigner, and that is the one rai 40million baht investment route .....

Just wondering if there are any TV members who have actually done this? Or who even know anyone personally who has done it?

[Khun Jean]

Thousands of foreingners own houses by forming a company, I think if it is not too expensive, and the laywer firm is big, you are quite safe though not 100%, but 99% safer than you put it in your thai girlfriend's name.

Why always the comparison between a "company" and "in your girlfriends name". Shows a lack of knowledge.

When you do it right it is actually the other way around, except when that girlfriend becomes your wife of course.

The problem is that many people don't know that they don't know.

It is a fact whether you like it or not, many people always assume it is all right to put it in their thai gf or wife's name, until one day, the true colors of their ever charming thai gf change face and kick them out of the house, if you intend to do this, you should consider it as written off in the first place, by digging your head in the sand and assume everything is all right doesn't help! This is just a type of preventive measure for the buyer, do your research! If it has not happen to you yet does not mean it will not happen to you and others.

I once read about a retired man, met a bar girl, showed pity for her and married her, bought land built house in her name, few years later he was kicked out by her, lost over 10 million baht, in the end, his retired life turned into night mare, and rented a small apt and started working again. This happen to many people in LOS and everywhere. So which is better? No brainer rule is to pay some money and set up a company, many foreingers have lost their house, condo by putting their gf name on it whether solely or joined, some of their gf even go to the extend of bribing the officer to change the title from joined name to her name solely and sell away the property when her bf is back home. So which is better, you be the judge!!

Closed!!

Yeah, all those problems that could have been prevented by spending 150 baht.

[Khun Jean]

Why always the comparison between a "company" and "in your girlfriends name". Shows a lack of knowledge.

When you do it right it is actually the other way around, except when that girlfriend becomes your wife of course.

The problem is that many people don't know that they don't know.

Seems like you know a lot, please show me how you do it right. Hope you are not another empty vessel.

I read a lot, i listen to people with real experience, i never listen to a cheap lawyer in Thailand, checkup by reading everything an expensive laywer tells me, i have a company that is doing real business, have condos i rent out, my wife owns land, i did not know the rules 10 years ago when i married otherwise i would have used the usufruct route to be able to use land. So yes i know a lot especially about real estate, most by experience. And the best part, i don't make my money in selling realestate so i have no vested interests.

Difference with most other people that run into problems is that i don't spend money on a gut feeling. A gut feeling is too much in the here and now and it is only valuable in flight or fight situations. The brain is heavily controlled by this gut feeling and it took me several years to be able to suppress it. Now i do the thinking with the brain, well most of the time, you know the part that is actually capable of reasoning and able to estimate risks and profits by projecting into the future.

So the only way i can show people how to do it right is by repeating the same things over and over again. Feel free to look at my other posts.

[Khun Jean]

Thankfully the A-hole scammer lawyers, developers and agents are in the minority here.....

One would hope so but I wonder if they really are?

I remain convinced that there is a significantly larger proportion of imported crooks and ne'er-do-wells here than one would find in their home countries, not least because quite a lot of them come here simply because they are wanted in their home countries, or have been convicted too many times there to be able to get any sort of job.

I have seen to many of them operating in tourist places. It can not be underestimated. Samui was/is particulary bad in this case. Other islands are also iused by them, they seems to have become a crook to be able to retire or continue their trade on a 'tropical island'. Movies do have effects it seems.

I prefer to deal with Thais or when it is a foreigner only if they are the direct owner, never an agent/broker or whatever they call themselves.

And yes, 99% of them are ruining it for the 1% good guys.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Khun Jean

[Cobrabiker]

Why always the comparison between a "company" and "in your girlfriends name". Shows a lack of knowledge.

When you do it right it is actually the other way around

You have talked a lot and yet have not shown a way. Owning real estate or being a millionaire does not make you right all the time, now we are comparing apple to apple, since you think my way is lack or knowledge, show us your knowledge and how you do it right, instead of trying to be a great Philosopher.

So the only way i can show people how to do it right is by repeating the same things over and over again

So if it was wrong the first time, repeating the same things over and over again, that means wrong all the time, is that what you mean?

Edited May 31, 2012 by Cobrabiker

[Khun Jean]

Why always the comparison between a "company" and "in your girlfriends name". Shows a lack of knowledge.

When you do it right it is actually the other way around

You have talked a lot and yet have not shown a way. Owning real estate or being a millionaire does not make you right all the time, now we are comparing apple to apple, since you think my way is lack or knowledge, show us your knowledge and how you do it right, instead of trying to be a great Philosopher.

So the only way i can show people how to do it right is by repeating the same things over and over again

So if it was wrong the first time, repeating the same things over and over again, that means wrong all the time, is that what you mean?

Not a friendly worded post, but i answer it anyway. Being friendly works better, another Philosephers advice.

And Yes i am a millionare Yeah!!, unfortunately only when measured in Thai baht and it took me more than 10 years. Still Yeah!!

Ok, i will make it very simple for you. I will make a list

1 You can own a foreign quota condominium.

2 You can own a structure

3 There is no 3.

So what are your options when you want a house build on land

Lease land or have a usufruct. Lease is maximum 30 years, a usufruct maximum for live (which can be shorter than 30 years). And no there are no such things as renewals. It is just a promise to negotiate a new lease with you first.

Build or buy a structure and put that in your name (separate from the land).

What you end up with:

A house that is 100% yours and land that is 100% for you to use.

If you want to sell, you have a potential problem. The potential problem is the cooperation of the landowner.

If the landowner does not cooperate you are unable to sell.

So why have a lease or a usufruct when that is such a bad way of 'owning' because you actually can not sell it without someone elses cooperation, you know something that is called 'Freehold'.

The only reason you should do it like that is when you want to live in that house on that piece of land and when you don't want to anymore gift it to the Thai who owns it. That's it.

For many that is enough.

Clear now? Or are you now starting to say that what i say can not be true because so many people are doing other things. Well many people smoke also and drive through red lights.

In thailand it is Up to you.

There are many people who will convince you it is safe and many are willing to pay for hearing those lies.

The consequences are also for you.

Just to make it clear:

[Cobrabiker]

Well, we all learn from each other, somethimes we are right, and other times we may be wrong, I have done enough research and also I do what I preached, have read, have heard and have done it myself, not to put it in your GF or wife's name, as she could run away and you are left poorer, so if you could be a little more watchful of your offensive language, this will definitely be the friendliest post ever.

Ok, now I am trying to be friendly.

1) Condo is off topic, reread this topic,

2) is not practical, you don't own it and you can't sell it.

30 years lease, and you end up with answer 2, and the same as you put it in your thai gf' name, as the lessor is a thai. So now, what if you want to sell 3 years later, and what happen after 30 years? The house do not belong to you anymore, and I right? As it is leased to you for 30 years.

So the more practical way is to set up a company through a legal firm, and they will get 2 dummies to be the shareholders of the company (do not use your own thai friends as shareholders) and presigned the transfer form and to be kept by you, this is what thousands of foreigners are doing it depite all the news about clamping down foreigners buying properties, I think the authorities are more concern about them buying land than a mere 5 million baht house.

Many people trying to save a few bucks for yearly fee for a thai company, and in the end lose their pants, just like the great old saying, penny wise and pound foolish.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Cobrabiker