U.S. President Barack Obama Says 'Same-Sex Marriage Should Be Legal'

[Jingthing]

Mormon policies and dogma ARE anti-gay. That's a fact. Romney is a very active Mormon. That's a fact. Romney opposes same sex marriage. That's a fact. Is there a connection between his religion and his policies? How can we know? Does it really matter? I don't think it really matters. What matters is his policies favor unfair discrimination and for THAT he should be opposed on that issue. Saying all that, I do think the press should confront Romney on something related to this. It was discovered that Romney contributed his own money (as opposed to church money) to a Mormon group that actively tries to "help" gays become ex-gays. A group that used to (but does not now) use shock therapy for this goal. That is a political issue and he has tried very hard to avoid talking about it. He should be pressed to talk about it because mainstream psychiatry thinks these "therapies" not only don't succeed in their goal, they lead to depression and suicide. This is something he did, as a man, on his own. It's not attacking his religion to demand light on that.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Are you trying to tell me that you think the Church of Latter Day Saints is a bona fide religion?

I don't think that most bona fide religions are bona fide religions, but most of them condemn homosexuality and gay marriage, so am not sure why Mormans are getting special mention. Romney is against gay marriage, but so was Obama until about two weeks ago and he still thinks that it should be up to individual states - which means no gay marriage according to Jingthing.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have deleted. This is not a discussion of Romney, and certainly not of his religion.

As Romney is the front runner for the Republican party, his position on the issue is relevant to the thread, but it is not the focus of the thread. His religion, Obama's religion and who is pastor of whose church is off-topic and will result in warnings.

Stay on-topic.

[Jingthing]

Are you trying to tell me that you think the Church of Latter Day Saints is a bona fide religion?

I don't think that most bona fide religions are bona fide religions, but most of them condemn homosexuality and gay marriage, so am not sure why Mormans are getting special mention. Romney is against gay marriage, but so was Obama until about two weeks ago and he still thinks that it should be up to individual states - which means no gay marriage according to Jingthing.

Not quite exactly. Obama has been clear that he considers DOMA unconstitutional and he has done what he can legally to not enforce it. As do so far -- the higher courts. Waiting for elevation of these issues to where they belong. The supreme court.

The other point about that is we know the president has no influence on the supreme court. So for Obama to make a thing about explicitly saying the supreme court needs to rule to mandate including same sex couples be allowed to marry in all 50 states would be both politically and practically DUMB.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Obama says that he thinks that the states should decide. Are you implying that he is LYING?

[Jingthing]

Obama says that he thinks that the states should decide. Are you implying that he is LYING?

I'm implying all politicians lie and if you believe differently I've got a bridge to sell you. (But you don't, I'm certain.) A more polite term, political expedience.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[koheesti]

The laws always take longer than public opinion. I feel the NAACP is a major step. That's a really old group, part of the establishment now. It's significant that such a group is now directly linking the black civil rights and the gay civil rights movements. Something gay civil rights activists have been doing for a long time with resistance of course. I feel that changes the national psychology in a significant way paving the way for a supreme court ruling as described. The court is not supposed to be political but that's an ideal never met; they generally don't like to make rulings the country isn't quite ready for. NAACP says we're more ready. As far as Obama's stated position, I reckon if he gets a second term there may be more "evolution" in store. It won't be very hard for him to move from where he is now to where the crusty old NAACP is!

The leader of the national NAACP may back Obama on same sex marriage but not all their leaders/members do. Although Obama will not lose a single black vote to Romney, it could cause turnout to be lower and less enthusiastic than in 2008.

http://qctimes.com/news/local/iowa-naacp-leader-quits-over-same-sex-marriage-flap/article_ce71937a-afec-11e1-96dc-0019bb2963f4.html

DES MOINES — A prominent leader in the Iowa/Nebraska branch of the NAACP — the country’s oldest civil rights group — announced today that he is resigning as branch president and a national board member in the wake of the national organization’s decision to endorse marriage between people of the same gender.

The Rev. Keith Ratliff Sr. of the Maple Street Missionary Baptist Church in Des Moines issued a statement saying he was stepping down from the NAACP national board and as Iowa/Nebraska state conference president “due to the NAACP’s position and support of same-sex marriage.

Ratliff has been an outspoken critic of same-sex marriage rights and has spoken at Statehouse rallies seeking an amendment to the Iowa Constitution to undo a controversial, landmark state Supreme Court ruling in April 2009 that gave legal status to civil marriages involving same-gender couples. The proposed constitutional amendment would define marriage in Iowa as only between one man and one woman.

[Jingthing]

I never asserted ALL African-American leaders support Obama's advocacy of same sex marriage equality. However, NAACP is a very important, historic, civil rights organization and does carry a lot of weight. In fact, a recent survey shows African Americans are recently showing more support. Obama will still get the vast majority of this demographic vote in the upcoming election as very few people vote on the gay civil rights issue, pro or con, alone.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Jingthing

[koheesti]

I never asserted ALL African-American leaders support Obama's advocacy of same sex marriage equality. However, NAACP is a very important, historic, civil rights organization and does carry a lot of weight. In fact, a recent survey shows African Americans are recently showing more support. Obama will still get the vast majority of this demographic vote in the upcoming election as very few people vote on the gay civil rights issue, pro or con, alone.

I never said that you claimed ALL did. It's irrelevant what you claimed in fact. This isn't about you, it's about the NAACP support for same sex marriage. I posted this new link to show that while the NATIONAL leadership voted to support same sex marriage, not all members of the national leadership approve. In fact, they actively fight against same sex marriage which is more than just sitting at home not liking gays. I wonder how many blacks who oppose same sex marriage would now approve because the national leadership of the NAACP tells them to? My guess is not many. Still, it's a nice endorsement to have. Better than not having it.

[Scott]

Post deleted. The opinion of the OIC is not relevant to this thread. Stay on the topic and off religion.

[Steely Dan]

Post deleted. The opinion of the OIC is not relevant to this thread. Stay on the topic and off religion.

Withdrawn, sigh.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Steely Dan