Gold As A Medium Of Exchange After Fiat Money Destruction

[Naam]

Nice trolling Nam.

If the Chinese are so brilliant why did they adopt communism? How many millions of people died during that? Why isn't there any freedom of speech in China? What about one-child per family? How did that work out for them?

And what a great investment the Chinese have made accumulating all that valuable foriegn paper.

Let's see... Europe and the USA has massive paper debts and all the gold. Hmm... I wonder what they may possibly have in mind for the future. Interesting that non of these struggling nations have decided to sell up their barbelic relics to help deal with their paper debt crisis.

Anyways I know you are a smart guy and this last post you made was pure trolling so I will give you a pass.

i would be child's play for me to rip each of your arguments into tiny little pieces but i have wasted already too much time trying to spoil fairy tales with facts. by the way, you statement

"what a great investment the Chinese have made accumulating all that valuable foriegn paper"

proves that you possess a wealth of no idea as far as macro-economics are concerned and it reminds me of an old saying "don't discuss the colour mix and the brush stroke of an old master's painting with blind people!"

[Naam]

For any item, different people will have different perceptions of value from one another. It is when any two parties agree to the same value, one of whom would like to obtain the item and the other offering it, that a transaction can take place.

e.g. what is the value of Leonardo Da Vinci's Mona Lisa? The answer depends on the one offering it, the person who would want to obtain it, and also what each would agree to conduct the exchange with (whether it be fiat money, gold or food). A Zimbabwean would probably perceive the Mona Lisa as being of very little or no value, whereas a billionaire art collector may highly value it in terms of his fiat money.

that goes without saying and nobody challenges that fact but

Gold could be valued based on whatever quantity of food that could be exchanged...

does not apply because that value fluctuates and might not apply a minute later making the earlier valuation null and void. we are now back to square one but can conclude that the "intrinsic" value of gold is a fairy tale. period!

kind of like what happened to your beloved fiat currency in Zimbabwe

"

Staggering increases in the price of bread and cereals were the main reason for the jump from the June rate of 11.2 million percent, the Central Statistical Office said.

Shortages of wheat are driving up bread prices, the paper said, compounding the struggle to avoid hunger in a country where the United Nations estimates more than five million people -- nearly half the population -- will need food aid.

On a monthly basis, prices skyrocketed by 2,600.2 percentage points in July, compared to 839.3 percent the month before. "

http://www.newzimbab...n197.18861.html

what has the fluctuating value of gold and its alleged intrinsic value to do with the price of bread and cereals in Zimbabwe?

Edited May 13, 2012 by Naam

[farang000999]

Nice trolling Nam.

If the Chinese are so brilliant why did they adopt communism? How many millions of people died during that? Why isn't there any freedom of speech in China? What about one-child per family? How did that work out for them?

And what a great investment the Chinese have made accumulating all that valuable foriegn paper.

Let's see... Europe and the USA has massive paper debts and all the gold. Hmm... I wonder what they may possibly have in mind for the future. Interesting that non of these struggling nations have decided to sell up their barbelic relics to help deal with their paper debt crisis.

Anyways I know you are a smart guy and this last post you made was pure trolling so I will give you a pass.

i would be child's play for me to rip each of your arguments into tiny little pieces but i have wasted already too much time trying to spoil fairy tales with facts. by the way, you statement

"what a great investment the Chinese have made accumulating all that valuable foriegn paper"

proves that you possess a wealth of no idea as far as macro-economics are concerned and it reminds me of an old saying "don't discuss the colour mix and the brush stroke of an old master's painting with blind people!"

so I assume you are following the Chinese strategy and loading up on short term US bonds? look, we all know that China has achieved a lot of progress on the backs of their slaves factory workers. they keep their currency weak and prop up the USD and are making a fortune exporting crap. yet you are using the fact that the Chinese have large USD reserves to prove that fiat money is going to retain it's value. it seems like a poor argument. the Chinese feel that their gains from exporting outweigh what they spend in propping up the USD. so what does that strategy have to do with you or me?

also, the PBoC has often made statements like the above where they outright say that they do not want to hold so much USD but have a problem that as they start spending it, it's value will decrease.

"Most industry executives believe China has been quietly accumulating gold produced in its domestic market for years, but it rarely publishes details of its holdings. In 2009, Beijing revealed it had almost doubled its gold reserves since 2003, making it the fifth-largest holder of bullion with 1,054 tonnes."

Hmmmmm.....

"Central banks bought about 440 tonnes of gold last year on a net basis, the WGC said, the highest level of buying since 1964. Large buyers included Mexico, Russia and South Korea."

Barbaric Relic, lol.

Edited May 14, 2012 by farang000999

[bendix]

If the Chinese are so brilliant why did they adopt communism? How many millions of people died during that? Why isn't there any freedom of speech in China? What about one-child per family? How did that work out for them?

And what a great investment the Chinese have made accumulating all that valuable foriegn paper.

Good grief.

The last time I heard an argument that sophisticated, I was 12 years old and the venue for the learned debate was Lynn Grove High School playground.

[Naam]

yet you are using the fact that the Chinese have large USD reserves to prove that fiat money is going to retain it's value

you are putting words in my mouth and base on it a ridiculous assumption. as ridiculous as your references to communist China, the one-child policy, freedom of speech and slave labour. what about lack of human rights which might prove that gold has intrinsic value? or Mummy, Mummy... Naam doesn't know that China doubled its gold holdings... from 1% to 2%!

it all boils down to the wisdom "don't waste time discussing... with blind people."

[Naam]

If the Chinese are so brilliant why did they adopt communism? How many millions of people died during that? Why isn't there any freedom of speech in China? What about one-child per family? How did that work out for them?

And what a great investment the Chinese have made accumulating all that valuable foriegn paper.

Good grief.

The last time I heard an argument that sophisticated, I was 12 years old and the venue for the learned debate was Lynn Grove High School playground.

that the Chinese people "adopted communism" is a valid argument Bendix. fact remains when the 'Great Helmsman' Mao called in 1949 for free elections under independent UN supervision 99% of the Chinese voted for communism and cultural revolution based on the subtle advice coming from the muzzles of guns.

[hyperdimension]

Gold could be valued based on whatever quantity of food that could be exchanged...

does not apply because that value fluctuates and might not apply a minute later making the earlier valuation null and void.

Who ever said that the value of something relative to something else must be constant? The value of any item can change as wants and needs (i.e. demand) change over time (whether it be minutes or years) amongst a population.

the "intrinsic" value of gold is a fairy tale.

"intrinsic" refers to the nature of an item itself. One of the properties of gold is that it is one of the least chemically reactive elements on Earth. It does not oxidize (i.e. corrode) in air or water like other metals do, so a physical sample of gold can stay as it is for possibly an eternity. This may be one of the major reasons to why it is seen as a store of value in many cultures. What other physical substance can last in its original state for thousands of years? Rock erodes, wood rots, other metals corrode. Food and water is intrinsically valuable to all animal life due to necessity for survival, but it can become inedible due to bacteria contamination.

The same dependencies of value as I've explained before apply when considering whether something has intrinsic value. If the natural properties of the substance is of no use or desire to someone or some animal, then it has no intrinsic value. Gold is of no intrinsic value to a dog.

The value of something that has absolutely no use or demand is 0. But most things in existence do have some intrinsic value to some other thing or lifeform due to the interconnectedness within nature and the physical world. e.g. animal faeces are considered a "waste" product, yet it has intrinsic value to plants because it contains many nutrients for healthy plant growth. This is why cow manure is sold as plant fertilizer. Urine has intrinsic value because it contains water, which is essential for the sustenance of all life. So whenever you defecate or urinate, think of the intrinsic value that you are parting with.

[hyperdimension]

You can also get a type of gold bar where you can break off individual pieces

You know that is about the best form of gold I have seen.

It is 100% logical if gold is being looked at as a back up currency

You know in places like Rome the gate-keepers/tax men would snip off pieces of a coin

Coin clipping occurred in the UK but you took your nuts in your hands...

http://guernsey-gold...-castration

That is an entirely different thing to what g00dgirl posted. Castration was the punishment for debasing the currency by clipping off outer parts of coins and melting the clippings to make new coins. It's actually not much different to central banks these days creating new money out of thin air either by typing numbers into a computer or printing new paper or plastic notes.

[Naam]

kind of like what happened to your beloved fiat currency in Zimbabwe

"Staggering increases in the price of bread and cereals were the main reason for the jump from the June rate of 11.2 million percent, the Central Statistical Office said.

Shortages of wheat are driving up bread prices, the paper said, compounding the struggle to avoid hunger in a country where the United Nations estimates more than five million people -- nearly half the population -- will need food aid.

On a monthly basis, prices skyrocketed by 2,600.2 percentage points in July, compared to 839.3 percent the month before. "

http://www.newzimbab...n197.18861.html

Midas,

apart from (for me totally irrelevant) Zimbabwe this is what i bought last wednesday with my "beloved worthless fiat currency". i wish i had huge heaps of that "worthless paper" because i know at least a dozen (or more) four-wheeled items which i would like to add to my collection. alas, i lack the necessary quantity of "worthless fiat"

http://www.thaivisa....25#entry5296008

even for this beauty i was able to get rid of some "worthless fiat" two years ago. can you imagine how worried i was that the seller might ask for payment in nuggets or Islamic Dirhams? only after he accepted a certified "worthless" paper cheque issued by my fractional cum fraudulent bank, denominated in "worthless" Thai Baht currency, i sighed with relief and drove off.

http://www.thaivisa....75#entry3569721

[Naam]

no more diversion now! let's dig up some biblical or qr'anic tales in which it is written that the LORD himself referred to the intrinsic value of Gold and the destruction of all satanic worthless fiat currencies when the Day of Reckoning has arrived.

[hyperdimension]

denominated in "worthless" Thai Baht currency, i sighed with relief and drove off.

The fact that you could exchange Thai baht currency for a real item is proof that Thailand's fiat currency is not currently perceived as worthless. I wonder what would happen if you tried to obtain the same item with fiat money that is no longer in circulation.

Edited May 14, 2012 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

You can also get a type of gold bar where you can break off individual pieces, see here: http://www.goldbarre...n/goldtafelnTM/

I had thought of square- or rectangular-shaped coins before, as round coins waste storage space. Now I can see that such a thing exists! The price is not too bad either, at around 5% above spot.

Could there be a market for something similar in Thailand? I think this needs to be brought to the attention of the gold shops here.

Just one 1g piece is 0.032 ounces, which is currently worth around 50 US dollars in fiat money, or was worth 10 loaves of bread in that village in Zimbabwe.

I need to make a correction to my earlier statement:

0.1g of gold in fiat money is actually around 50 USD, but that's irrelevant for those Zimbabweans in that video.

0.1g of gold in fiat money is actually around 5 USD, but that's irrelevant for those Zimbabweans in that video.

Edited May 14, 2012 by hyperdimension

[Naam]

denominated in "worthless" Thai Baht currency, i sighed with relief and drove off.

The fact that you could exchange Thai baht currency for a real item is proof that Thailand's fiat currency is not currently perceived as worthless. I wonder what would happen if you tried to obtain the same item with fiat money that is no longer in circulation.

not you, but quite a number of Bills, Bucks, Hanks and Joes keep on calling/perceiving currencies presently valid and in circulation "worthless fiat". scroll back a bit and you will find that i'm right. the last relevant posting is only 2 days old. dozens of similar postings you will find in the thread "where's gold going...?"

by the way, ancient and medieval copper and bronze coins exist which are not in circulation anymore but who's collector's value is a multiple of the same weight in gold. Christie's as well as Sotheby's numismatic auctions are always a big success.

[Naam]

So whenever you defecate or urinate, think of the intrinsic value that you are parting with

conclusion: it's good to be constipated because intrinsic value is retained in the bowels

[hyperdimension]

not you, but quite a number of Bills, Bucks, Hanks and Joes keep on calling/perceiving currencies presently valid and in circulation "worthless fiat".

I think they mean "intrinsically" worthless, as us humans don't have much of a need for bits of paper and plastic, and paper and plastic don't serve as a good permanent store of value because they can deteriorate.

Also, since paper can be made from wood, and wood is abundant, the abundance makes paper low in value per weight.

by the way, ancient and medieval copper and bronze coins exist which are not in circulation anymore but who's collector's value is a multiple of the same weight in gold. Christie's as well as Sotheby's numismatic auctions are always a big success.

I was expecting such a response, as it highlights diferences in perceptions of value that I discussed earlier. Old fiat money can be perceived as highly valuable to a collector, but worthless to others. It's similar with works of art or antiques.

The important thing to note is the foundation of popular support for items that are used as stores of value and mediums of exchange. Without popular support as a foundation, an item cannot be (or continue to be) a store of value or medium of exchange. So, for example, there's no point in keeping old fiat money notes thinking that it will be perceived as extremely valuable in 10,000 years if by that time nobody at all is interested in it.

[hyperdimension]

So whenever you defecate or urinate, think of the intrinsic value that you are parting with

conclusion: it's good to be constipated because intrinsic value is retained in the bowels

The body of an animal excretes faeces because it naturally considers it as a waste product. It still does contain nutrients that humans can absorb, but biological processes aren't 100% efficient, so some substances of "intrinsic" value to humans are indeed excreted during defecation. The body shouldn't keep the faeces in the bowels because it needs to make way for new nutrient-rich food, which has much higher direct intrinsic value to the human than faeces.

Faeces can have indirect intrinsic value to humans if you consider that it can help plants grow, plants which may produce nutrient-rich food that can be eaten by humans and other animals.

[flying]

Seems this thread has gone to sh!t

[hyperdimension]

Seems this thread has gone to sh!t

It still has value.

[StoneSoup]

I think some of you guys living in fear of international collapse need to grow a pair of testicles.

Yes, some national economies will need to readjust, to recalibrate, but that's been going on ever since the Romans and Greeks minted coins. , The gold notion is predicated on there being a systemic worldwide financial collapse. That;'s about as likely as me waking up naked with a katoey. Aint gonna happen. In my case, I have a sharp eyed broomstick flyer keeping an eye on me. In the case of the world economy, there are too many central banks working together. Despite all the negativity we can read about in the media, when push comes to shove, the central banks of China, Russia, the EU, and the USA all come together because they know that if one goes down, they will all suffer.

Do you remember what happened at the peak of the financial crisis, when there was a real fear that the USD would collapse? The Australia Canada, Sweden, the UK and the EU central banks went to work. Even the Chinese were obliged to prop up the USD. The world is too integrated and too dependent on each other to allow such a thing to happen.

Your comments are based on the continuation of the world as we know it. ZeroHedge introduced me to the idea of TEOTWAWKI = that being "The End Of The World As We Know It."

All the banks of the world cannot change the fact that:

1. Global demographics are relentlessly creating a world of increasing aged populations, and diminishing young populations. This clashes with the widespread practice of governments promising defined benefits to retired workers until death. There simply will not be enough money to pay the obligations - in Europe, USA, and Japan.

2. That which cannot mathematically continue, will not continue.

3. Governments have only two ways to deal with the inevitable crisis: a) Default outright on promises; Pay off obligations with wildly devalued fiat currencies - devalued through hyperinflation.

The only real question is: when will the *stuff* hit the fan?

I'm about 40% convinced that TEOTWAWKI will arrive before 2020. As such, i have converted about 40% of my Thai company's retained earnings into gold. I chose 5 baht, 99.99% "ingots" - I use that term instead of "bars" because the configuration is shaped like a squared off AA battery - a little bit thicker than such a battery, and about half as long.

I see it as insurance against whatever may unfold when TEOTWAWK comes to pass.

I hope that i am wrong. The world will be wretched place if things play out as I suspect they will.

Another good place to find information is the Tends Research Institute, run by Gerald Celente.

Cheers!

SS

[Naam]

Seems this thread has gone to sh!t

flies hold shit since millions of years and billions of generations in high esteem and consider it to possess a high intrinsic value. can godzillions of flies be wrong?

[hyperdimension]

The only real question is: when will the *stuff* hit the fan?

You've just missed a timely opportunity for a pun there. Edited May 14, 2012 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

Seems this thread has gone to sh!t

flies hold shit since millions of years and billions of generations in high esteem and consider it to possess a high intrinsic value. can godzillions of flies be wrong?

Yes, it's for the same reason as I wrote earlier - that faeces contains nutrients that are intrinsically valuable to life:

From Why are flies attracted to poop?:

Poop, or excrement, is the leftovers of food digestion that were not absorbed by the intestines of the animal who ate the food. The animal may have excreted it, but there are still nutrients in the excrement. As excrement decomposes due to the presence of bacteria, it gets smelly and flies can detect this odor from great distances away. They come to lay their eggs on it so that the hatching larvae will have a source of food as soon as they emerge from the eggs, since fly parents don't stick around to feed their babies.

[farang000999]

that the Chinese people "adopted communism" is a valid argument Bendix. fact remains when the 'Great Helmsman' Mao called in 1949 for free elections under independent UN supervision 99% of the Chinese voted for communism and cultural revolution based on the subtle advice coming from the muzzles of guns.

Nam you said

"but then those of us who live in Asia, especially in Thailand, are well aware that the Chinese have no idea how to do business. in our host country ethnic Chinese are mostly doing low paid menial jobs, such as gardeners, cleaners, helpers on construction sites, dishwashers in restaurants and soi dog chasers. the economies of mainland China, Taiwan and Singapore have been, are and will always be in shambles because Chinese lack any business acumen. is this perhaps caused by is a genetic defect?"

I was pointing out that homeland China does not have the greatest record on planet earth when it comes to decision making therefore I reject the suggestion that I should hold USD because they are. You yourself of course are largely just trolling these gold topics as I know from other posts you have made on TV that your investment strategy is probably quite similar to my own. You are doing a disservice to users like Bendix or other lurkers who don't realize that you are trolling and think "Hmm, good thing I dont have any gold. Gotta load up on UST and wait for deflation".

Edited May 14, 2012 by farang000999

[bendix]

I was pointing out that homeland China does not have the greatest record on planet earth when it comes to decision making therefore I reject the suggestion that I should hold USD because they are. You yourself of course are largely just trolling these gold topics as I know from other posts you have made on TV that your investment strategy is probably quite similar to my own. You are doing a disservice to users like Bendix or other lurkers who don't realize that you are trolling and think "Hmm, good thing I dont have any gold. Gotta load up on UST and wait for deflation".

Lurkers like bendix (wow, I've never been called a lurker on TV before) do not need guidance from Naam on their financial strategy - they are very capable of making their own decisions based on rational thought and critical analysis.

I have said that around 5% of my investible assets are in gold and silver or gold/silver mining stocks. I consider that to be a very reasonable exposure.

Your point on China holding USD is just nonsense. Yes, they hold USD notes and USD denominated bonds, but they also hold a wide variety of assets in just about every currency and asset class you can name - from gold, bonds, cash, shares - right through to massive investments in companies, mines, infrastructure etc.

In other words, a very diversified portfolio of which gold forms a small and appropriate part.

I think you're confusing measuring chinese reserves in USD wiht holding it all in USD.

[Naam]

I was pointing out that homeland China does not have the greatest record on planet earth when it comes to decision making therefore I reject the suggestion that I should hold USD because they are.

that stuff you ingest which causes hallucinations...

-is it legal? i have my doubts

-how do you take it?

-smoking, orally, intravenous, subcutane?

-please delete what is not applicable.

[Naam]

Captain! long range sensors warn of zero-hedge stealth infections.

what are your orders?

immunisation? search and destroy? ignore and roar with laughter?

ZeroHedge introduced me to the idea of...

[Naam]

YO Bendix!

perhaps lurkers and trolls (like you and me) are mistaken when underestimating the economic and investment views of TV-member "Right Honourable Farang zero zero zero whatever" who not only explained why flies like shit but also teaches valuable lessons how to save money and invest the saved amounts in physical gold instead of buying UST.

should we listen to his advice or discard it?

farang000999

Super Member

Cheap Haircut On Sukhumwit

Started by farang000999, 2012-05-07 20:45

hi i live in thong lo area and want a cheap haircut. i will just get it buzzed with an attachment so very little expertise is required. i dont want to pay 300b like i did at mbk previously.

http://www.thaivisa....t/#entry5281216

Posted 2012-05-10 14:58:34

nisa, i am just here on vacation. i used to have a buzzer in thailand but left it in thailand. i have one in the usa but did not take it.

http://www.thaivisa....t/#entry5288603

[farang000999]

lol, ok, so why would i want to pay 300 baht for something that will may be 50 baht and exactly the same (will just be using a buzzer with a fixed length) somewhere else in a location that i will be going to anyways? should i make a list of people who have more money than you who are more bullish on gold than you are Naam? Would that prove that gold is a better investment? Were appeals to authority correct in 2005-2009? Ben Bernanke said something about home prices never declining whereas I was shorting the hell out of housing/financial stocks...

Edited May 14, 2012 by farang000999

[Naam]

nobody blamed you for using a buzzer and nobody cares that there are people who have more money than me and are bullish on gold. your arguments getting personal and making up things out of thin air are those of a little boy in kindergarten.

i suggest you keep on concentrating and copy/paste wiki wisdom on the intrinsic value of shit and flies instead of ridiculing yourself with statements such as

i used to have a buzzer in thailand but left it in thailand

[farang000999]

I was never trying to get personal and apologize for misinterpreting your statement about China's cash reserves. I also never made any comment about fecal matter.

From my perspective, that all the broke countries have a high % of their cash reserves in gold, is bullish for gold. It means that it is more likely to be remonetized or revalued upwards and used to settle accounts. I also feel that if gold was truly not important, these countries would have already sold it up. Certainly there are few people with a mountain of credit card debt and late rent who haven't gone to the pawn shop and hawked their gold jewelry.

Anyways, somewhere down the line I can just picture it:

American presidential Candidate A:

Listen people. The Chinese worked very hard to get all that USD paper. What we have to do now is tighten our belts. We need to raise taxes and we cut spending. Young people, move back in with your parents. Old people, don't plan on retiring. We have to do the right thing and pay back the Chinese

Candidate B:

#&!@ China and #$%# Candidate A

Hmm... I wonder who is going to win.

The US government has a mere 5,000+ tons of gold.

Edited May 14, 2012 by farang000999