Pm Vows To Fight Preah Vihear Case In Icj

[Lite Beer]

PM vows to fight Preah Vihear case in ICJ

CHIANG MAI, May 12--- Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on Saturday said the government would apply its utmost efforts to contest the Preah Vihear case at the International Court of Justice, pledging to protect Thailand’s sovereignty.

During the Chiang Mai’s by-election campaign, Ms Yingluck said that she-- together with Deputy Prime Minister Gen Yutthasak Sasiprapa, military top brass, officials of foreign ministry-- on Thursday met with the legal team for the case, to learn, discuss and clarify relevant information in preparation for contesting the case against Cambodia at the ICJ.

The Thai-commissioned legal team included the Thai ambassador to the Hague, Virachai Plasai, head lawyer of the case team, and three foreign lawyers from France, Canada and Australia.

In April 2011, Cambodia asked the ICJ to clarify and interpret its 1962 ruling on Preah Vihear.

In 1962 the court ruled the ancient Hindu temple belonged to Cambodia but did not define the boundaries of the area surrounding the structure, which has led to sporadic clashes between troops of both sides since then.

The ICJ has asked Thailand to submit further written explanations by June 21, as Cambodia has reportedly already sent its written explanations to the court, which set a deadline for Cambodia on March 8.

The prime minister also said that the team of lawyers would work together with related committees, affirming the government would do its best in every way to fight the case.

Regarding the dispute over a 4.6 square kilometres area around the Preah Vihear temple, Ms Yingluck vowed that the government is applying the utmost attempts to protect the country’s sovereignty.

The premier denied giving any details related to the case, explaining that the information was a legal matter.

However, she affirmed that every move by the government would work closely with the legal team, saying that the government would gather relevant experts for the legal battle of this case.

The UN court last July ordered both Thailand and Cambodia to immediately withdraw their military personnel now present in the provisional demilitarised zone and refrain from any military presence within that zone, while urging both countries to work with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to reach an agreement allowing the regional bloc's observers to enter the disputed zone.

The two countries were also ordered to revive their stalled talks to resolve the conflicts. Both must report developments to the court until a decision on Cambodia's main request for interpretation of the 1962 order is finalised. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-05-12

[bigbamboo]

Hmm... interesting to see how Cambodia reacts now that Hun Sen's close associate Thaksin is running the country again.

On the legal front, of course, Thailand screwed up years ago through lack of diligence.

Plus ca change, n'est-ce pas?............as they used to say in Cambodge.

Edited May 12, 2012 by bigbamboo

[OzMick]

Canadian lawyer - not Amsterdam I hope.

[soundman]

Looks like the Shinawatras have learnt a thing or two about how to present a prickly problem to the public after the Nopadon fiasco a few years back.

There will be no objection from Hun Sen IMO.

This court session will be about legitamising whatever Thaksin and Hun Sen have agreed on in private.

[animatic]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Scott
formatting

[hellodolly]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

Kinda takes the wind out of the sails of the people claiming it was army inspired. As you say the ball was dropped 50 years ago and the present government has just now decided to take part in the difference of opinion that the previous government was in. Cambodia has already supplied their papers to the ICJ Yingluck is just starting to get a team to prepare Thailand's response. Shows a lot of disrespect for the ICJ from Thailand.

[Credo]

It is probably in Thailand's best interest to delay this as much as possible. They have a weak case.

[creck]

The most difficult part will be to accept the IJC decision without losing face and looking feeble. Or trying to ‘stand up’ to IJC by saying ‘you are wrong’ which will get nowhere and be losing more respect internationally. I feel she is on a hiding to nothing.

Thailand has a reasonable case morally but a useless case legally.

[siampolee]

The Thai-commissioned legal team included the Thai ambassador to the Hague, Virachai Plasai, head lawyer of the case team, and three foreign lawyers from France, Canada and Australia.

Wot, no Amsterdam?

[h90]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

No the 62 ruling has many weak points. Biggest is that Thai government couldn't care at the moment. As well Cambodia tries to fill that area with Cambodians.....

Or say it different: There wouldn't be any problem if both governments would be half-morons. Unfortunately they are full-morons.

[TheCure]

She is learning fast from her army and elite tutors.

She is starting to sound like a new Abhisit in the making.

Without the massacre of innocent people, for the moment.

Knowing Thai history, this could still happen at anytime.

[mozzieslapper]

Why don't they use a Thai Legal team?

Edited May 12, 2012 by mozzieslapper

[noitom]

In a previous story two days, this newspaper headlined that Thais were advised by their own legal team to "play the good child" and "follow strict orders of the ICJ." So what does that all mean? Foreign lawyers are probably used because it is an "international border issue."

[farang000999]

Does anyone find it funny that there are no Cambodian or Burmese restaurants in Thailand, well at least not in Bangkok? I find Thais to be very prejudiced towards their neighbors. My wife says they are taught in school to dislike them. LOL.

[animatic]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

No the 62 ruling has many weak points. Biggest is that Thai government couldn't care at the moment. As well Cambodia tries to fill that area with Cambodians.....

Or say it different: There wouldn't be any problem if both governments would be half-morons. Unfortunately they are full-morons.

Not really many weak points.

They may be two at most open to limited interpretation,

except in the opinion of the Thai nationalists.

The thing is they are not the judges who will rule on facts,

not wishful thinking.

[animatic]

Does anyone find it funny that there are no Cambodian or Burmese restaurants in Thailand, well at least not in Bangkok? I find Thais to be very prejudiced towards their neighbors. My wife says they are taught in school to dislike them. LOL.

That is the nation building nationalism that no one dares back off from in the school curriculum.

Long after it's usefulness has expired.

How to take a dozen competing ethnocentric groups fighting over resources,

and rebrand them in their minds as one nation?

Make them hate the nations around them,

regardless of blood ties between them and varions social segments,

the schools must make those connections moot and the neighbors an enemy.

Even if you must continue a reliving wars that happened 300 years ago,

again and again, as reasons to hate your cousins in the neighboring country.

And actually BELIEVE IT IS SO!

Serious cradle to grave nationalistic indoctrination,

to the point of Thaifying family names to do it.

OK, This and 'face loss' fears explains why even

1 sq mile of barely useful land is reason to die over,

Edited May 12, 2012 by animatic

[h90]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

No the 62 ruling has many weak points. Biggest is that Thai government couldn't care at the moment. As well Cambodia tries to fill that area with Cambodians.....

Or say it different: There wouldn't be any problem if both governments would be half-morons. Unfortunately they are full-morons.

Not really many weak points.

They may be two at most open to limited interpretation,

except in the opinion of the Thai nationalists.

The thing is they are not the judges who will rule on facts,

not wishful thinking.

The main weak point is that the maps changed a lot from the previous map and that Thailand didn't had the chance for an appeal.

Than for decades Thailand and Cambodia managed it together without any problems. Finding the elegant term "overlapping areas" until Thaksin and Hun Sen started some dirty deals which are most probably just a diversion from the dirty deals on the marine boarders with the gas and oil resources.

[TheCure]

Does anyone find it funny that there are no Cambodian or Burmese restaurants in Thailand, well at least not in Bangkok? I find Thais to be very prejudiced towards their neighbors. My wife says they are taught in school to dislike them. LOL.

That is the nation building nationalism that no one dares back off from in the school curriculum.

Long after it's usefulness has expired.

How to take a dozen competing ethnocentric groups fighting over resources,

and rebrand them in their minds as one nation?

Make them hate the nations around them,

regardless of blood ties between them and varions social segments,

the schools must make those connections moot and the neighbors an enemy.

Even if you must continue a reliving wars that happened 300 years ago,

again and again, as reasons to hate your cousins in the neighboring country.

And actually BELIEVE IT IS SO!

Serious cradle to grave nationalistic indoctrination,

to the point of Thaifying family names to do it.

OK, This and 'face loss' fears explains why even

1 sq mile of barely useful land is reason to die over,

Very true, but how about the motherload of nationalistic indoctrination that you so conveniently always avoid to mention ?

[hellodolly]

The most difficult part will be to accept the IJC decision without losing face and looking feeble. Or trying to ‘stand up’ to IJC by saying ‘you are wrong’ which will get nowhere and be losing more respect internationally. I feel she is on a hiding to nothing.

Thailand has a reasonable case morally but a useless case legally.

Given the conditions they don't have a morally good case and neither does Cambodia.

The Morally thing would be for the two to sit down together alone and say how can we work this out so no one gets hurt and the whole world gains. Cambodia has a world heritage site and Thailand has the approach to it. Thailand gains off of the tourists who come to visit and Cambodia gains off of any sales on there property. Not a lot of money either way but a lot less dead people.

Never been there but I have heard the people who have lived in the area for years and years had no problem with the set up as it was.

[hellodolly]

In a previous story two days, this newspaper headlined that Thais were advised by their own legal team to "play the good child" and "follow strict orders of the ICJ." So what does that all mean? Foreign lawyers are probably used because it is an "international border issue."

No it means use foreign lawyers because Thailand does not know how to "play the good child"

Ergo the need to go outside.

[phiphidon]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

Strange how the PAD yellow shirts that helped pave the way for the democrat party to form a government have now become "nationalist wingnuts". "Useful Idiots" anyone?

[bigbamboo]

The most difficult part will be to accept the IJC decision without losing face and looking feeble. Or trying to ‘stand up’ to IJC by saying ‘you are wrong’ which will get nowhere and be losing more respect internationally. I feel she is on a hiding to nothing.

Thailand has a reasonable case morally but a useless case legally.

Given the conditions they don't have a morally good case and neither does Cambodia.

The Morally thing would be for the two to sit down together alone and say how can we work this out so no one gets hurt and the whole world gains. Cambodia has a world heritage site and Thailand has the approach to it. Thailand gains off of the tourists who come to visit and Cambodia gains off of any sales on there property. Not a lot of money either way but a lot less dead people.

Never been there but I have heard the people who have lived in the area for years and years had no problem with the set up as it was.

Exactly. For years Thais and Cambodians mixed and traded freely over an effectively non existent border.

Then some bright spark made it a UN heritage site and everything changed.

[animatic]

Does anyone find it funny that there are no Cambodian or Burmese restaurants in Thailand, well at least not in Bangkok? I find Thais to be very prejudiced towards their neighbors. My wife says they are taught in school to dislike them. LOL.

That is the nation building nationalism that no one dares back off from in the school curriculum.

Long after it's usefulness has expired.

How to take a dozen competing ethnocentric groups fighting over resources,

and rebrand them in their minds as one nation?

Make them hate the nations around them,

regardless of blood ties between them and varions social segments,

the schools must make those connections moot and the neighbors an enemy.

Even if you must continue a reliving wars that happened 300 years ago,

again and again, as reasons to hate your cousins in the neighboring country.

And actually BELIEVE IT IS SO!

Serious cradle to grave nationalistic indoctrination,

to the point of Thaifying family names to do it.

OK, This and 'face loss' fears explains why even

1 sq mile of barely useful land is reason to die over,

Very true, but how about the motherload of nationalistic indoctrination that you so conveniently always avoid to mention ?

I don't mention it for the obvious reason,

but also mostly because I don't see that as the real problem.

[animatic]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

Strange how the PAD yellow shirts that helped pave the way for the democrat party to form a government have now become "nationalist wingnuts". "Useful Idiots" anyone?

That was one set of factions, and there was no problem finding them with or without PAD.

PAD just naturally latched on to the existing nationalism,

so as to have something Post Thaksin to center one.

A mistake IMHO. But in this place a logical one

[animatic]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

No the 62 ruling has many weak points. Biggest is that Thai government couldn't care at the moment. As well Cambodia tries to fill that area with Cambodians.....

Or say it different: There wouldn't be any problem if both governments would be half-morons. Unfortunately they are full-morons.

Not really many weak points.

They may be two at most open to limited interpretation,

except in the opinion of the Thai nationalists.

The thing is they are not the judges who will rule on facts,

not wishful thinking.

The main weak point is that the maps changed a lot from the previous map and that Thailand didn't had the chance for an appeal.

Than for decades Thailand and Cambodia managed it together without any problems. Finding the elegant term "overlapping areas" until Thaksin and Hun Sen started some dirty deals which are most probably just a diversion from the dirty deals on the marine boarders with the gas and oil resources.

They made the mistake themselves of not appealing.

They dropped that ball, that doesn't mean it can now be picked up 50 years later.

They allowed a set of maps to be used, they didn't dispute those maps.

Retroactively bringing up other maps doesn't correct their mistake then,

if it actually was a mistake and not done intentionally with full awareness at the time.

The gas/oil deals is what drives this,

but what put it in overdrive was Noppadom screwing up badly about what his job allowed him to do in the Samak Gov. to the point of Noppadom being forced from the FM chair he clearly wasn't qualified for. The clear part is his utter misunderstanding of the powers, duties and obligations of the position.

Edited May 12, 2012 by animatic

[Buchholz]

The UN court last July ordered both Thailand and Cambodia to immediately withdraw their military personnel now present in the provisional demilitarised zone

There's been no change since Yingluck's earlier announcement.

Cambodia also asked the court to issue an injunction ordering Thailand to withdraw its troops from the disputed area around the Preah Vihear after relations between the two countries soured in the wake of Cambodia's bid to have the temple listed as a World Heritage Site.

Yingluck announced this afternoon that Thai troops would not withdraw from the temple area.

.

[Woodcaulk]

I find Thais to be very prejudiced towards their neighbors. My wife says they are taught in school to dislike them. LOL.

Your bride is telling you the truth for sure. Its as if the ONLY history lesson some of them learn is about driving the Burmese (aka Pa-mah) out of Ayutthaya and Sukothai......doubt they learn the factual truth but the main point of the lesson is to hate the Burmese.

[SomTumTiger]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

Strange how the PAD yellow shirts that helped pave the way for the democrat party to form a government have now become "nationalist wingnuts". "Useful Idiots" anyone?

No thanks, the ruling government has plenty of those already, as does TV.

[Thai at Heart]

In a previous story two days, this newspaper headlined that Thais were advised by their own legal team to "play the good child" and "follow strict orders of the ICJ." So what does that all mean? Foreign lawyers are probably used because it is an "international border issue."

Rather sad that it takes foreigners to explain that the ruling has been made and if you want to be taken seriously you have to abide by the ruling.

[animatic]

The ruling in '62 was clear, only Thailands nationalist elements, when faced with losing the decision in implementation, have demanded creating some miraculous avenue to pin some somewhat forlorn hopes to, that their predecessors didn't irretrievably drop the ball, and lose the land rights completely back then.

I believe they did lose, and it's taken then over 50 years to even start acknowledging this fact. It didn't really mean anything to 99% of Thais past the historian level, until the world was shown Cambodia actually planing to do something with the temple. Suddenly the nationalists took the bit in their teeth. Since this multi-cultural nation is primarily held together by uber-nationalism as the sole bonding mechanism, this must rankle fundamentally with less logical minds..

Likely, they actually have lost completely. Some most certainly have NOT believed it is a done deal. So we see the spectacle of the NEW Pm trying to calm the nationalists in the hopes that don't tack her to the wall as they did Abhisit. Hang on to your support hose dahlink it will be a bumpy ride.

Of course as Soundman notes the reality is a done deal, likely tied to much great real world financial interests for the principals involved. How to sell this oil for land for face deal to the nationalist wingnuts and general public is another thing entirely.

Strange how the PAD yellow shirts that helped pave the way for the democrat party to form a government have now become "nationalist wingnuts". "Useful Idiots" anyone?

No thanks, the ruling government has plenty of those already, as does TV.

PAD made use of existing nationalistic sentiment,

but are from from the only nationlaists about the place.

This desperation to twist my words, is palpable like rancid butter on the tongue.

But not as effective as actually having a cogent argument.

And yes, S.S.T.

quite correct,more than enough currently in residence at the trough.