Regents Residences

[amarka]

hi...

i have a signed contract for a condo in the Regents residences. its says completion will be December 2006.

i signed the contract in march 2005.

now the sales people say December 2007. thats a whole year late already.

does anyone else have a contract for completion for December 2006?

what can be done about this? i have written to the Regents and they dont reply.

any sensible comments welcome.

happy new year to everyone

amarka

[Nordlys]

Did they give you any reason as to why the delay?

Did you contact the sales agent CBRE?

From what I remember looking at the site they are still working on piling work, no structure going up yet as of last month.

[amarka]

hi..

i have tried writing to them using a few e-mail addresses, but i dont get a reply apart from one e-mail promising to forward my mail to someone else... who did not reply.

i will be there anyway in february, but just wondered if anyone else was experiencing similar problems...

thanks

amarka

[Digger]

I had a feeling this development was going to turn out this way. Typical approach of an underfunded company who have ideas above their financial resources. This development is being funded by banks and customers not the developers money and if not enough have been sold and deposits booked and receipted, the banks will slow down the funds accordingly. Work will then slow down and this type of situation happens. I have said this before, but in Thailand, there is very little protection against this happening and dont for one moment ever believe the sales figure that your quoted as the first 25% of sales are to *friends* to make it look like its selling better than it really is.

Is this a Grande Assett management project? Probably the same will happen to their new project in Pattaya/Jomtien - If its them, they actually do not have much cash and cash is what gets things built, not assets on a balance sheet.

I hope I am wrong on this for your sake, but suspect I am not.

[expatinasia]

Welcome to Thailand, where NO building gets constructed within the advertised time period. A good example is another GA project, "The Trendy" condo, just across the soi from the Regents. Although just a refitout, the actual completion date will be TWO years from the original advertised date. Check out "The Infinity", at the Chong Nonsi BTS station. The project completion date is now 2010, or some such nonsense.

[amarka]

hi - thank you for the replies...

i think it would be fair to say that most construction projects world wide are late, rather than early.

most hower offer some form of compensation if the delay goes beyond 6 months.

is this not the case in Thailand??

most of the private capital will be released on completion, but yes if sales fail then there will be a financial gap to fill.

if sales are failing - then why have they put up the price 3 times since march 2005 ?

what most alarams me is the lack of communication, surely this comapany is in a position to employ someone who can make sure that e-mails get answered.

anyone else go a contract saying completion 2006?

amarka

Welcome to Thailand, where NO building gets constructed within the advertised time period.  A good example is another GA project, "The Trendy" condo, just across the soi from the Regents.  Although just a refitout, the actual completion date will be TWO years from the original advertised date.  Check out "The Infinity", at the Chong Nonsi BTS station.  The project completion date is now 2010, or some such nonsense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[amarka]

hi digger,

thank you for your comments.

is it not normal for banks to fund such projects? i dont think many are funded by the construction companies themselves, although they would have to deposit some money.

do you really think 25% are sold to friends, maybe a few condos, but not 25%?

if there no protection in thailand? i thought that these types of constuction were controlled by the government?

yes its a grande asset project.

they must have some cash? but i dont think that anyone could build all of these projects from their own cash, without banks or private investors.

apparently the underground work is complete now and the next company have moved in to build up. so we shall see.

thank you for your comments.

amarka

I had a feeling this development was going to turn out this way.    Typical approach of an underfunded company who have ideas above their financial resources.    This development is being funded by banks and customers not the developers money and if not enough have been sold and deposits booked and receipted, the banks will slow down the funds accordingly.  Work will then slow down and this type of situation happens.      I have said this before, but in Thailand, there is very little protection against this happening and dont for one moment ever believe the sales figure that your quoted as the first 25% of sales are to *friends* to make it look like its selling better than it really is. 

Is this a Grande Assett management project?    Probably the same will happen to their new project in Pattaya/Jomtien - If its them, they actually do not have much cash and cash is what gets things built, not assets on a balance sheet. 

I hope I am wrong on this for your sake, but suspect I am not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Digger]

Yes it is normal that banks provide finance for such sized projects however they will only release funds based on % units sold - that way they minimise their exposure - a lesson learnt the hard way in '97 crash.

GA is not the most solvent of developers anyway and it appears they are getting ahead of themselves - again.

Price rise is simple - in Thailand if things dont sell, the price goes up to compensate for lower sales - i.e fewer people buying still equals same money to the developer. No logic in this but its how things work in Thailand.

25% of sales - yes for sure, but probably 50% of those have been sold at below cost to close friends, hoping to muck a quick buck when the thing is finished and the others are probably ficticious sales to keep the banks happy. i.e use some id cards, pay the deposit and hey you have 25% sold and bank advances first tranche of money to get things underway.

Incidentally, there is NO reason for a building project to be 1 year behind schedule if its correctly managed. Look at other condo's - they are more often than not coming in on time or within 30 days of when they said it would.

[charles]

Welcome to Thailand, where NO building gets constructed within the advertised time period. 

As Digger says, this is simply not true. There are plenty of companies getting projects up on time, e.g., LPN, Supalai, Noble - there for all to see. Many of these are big projects too, which of course need professional management and proper funding.

Unfortunately professional management and proper funding might not be associated with Grande Asset. Really don't want to say "you should have done this.." in a smart arse kind of way, but this just illustrates why you should very carefully check out the developer if booking an off-plan condo.

Remember reading one of Grande Assets glossy brochures myself - they do nice brochures and nice renderings of buildings they plan to construct. Unfortunately, looking at their track record, one is left much less impressed. They have the Westin Sukhumvit and that is about it, otherwise they only have projects "under construction": one in Hua Hin (apparently progressing reasonably); the Holiday Inn on Sukhumvit (progressing although apparently not too fast); the Regent and "the Sales" in Pattaya (both still to 'get off the ground') and finally "the Trendy" condo next to the Regent. This place is the biggest red flag of all. It is taking them longer to refit an existing building than it takes the more professional developers to build a project from scratch! Quite clearly they do not have the sales or cash flow. Not to mention of course that any company that comes up with such a naf name as the Trendy for a condo aimed at foreigners needs their competence seriously questioned.

As for the contract, does it say anything about what happens if they don't complete on time? From my experience, last Feb the wife and I signed a contract with LPN Development PLC to buy a condo (off-plan) near Onnuj. Completion was set as June 2006. The contract was very specific about late completion. In the case of something unavoidable/not their fault (e.g. due to the authorities or something) they could delay for up to one year, but they would have to inform the customer straight away and the customer had the right, if he wished, to withdraw from the contract and get all his money back. Other than such cases, they guaranteed to complete the project by early August 2006 (i.e. within 2 months of schedule), if they failed to do so they would incur fines (paid to the customer) and again the customer could choose to get his money back.

Of course, the above company knows what it's doing, quite evidently it will be completed on time and is already about 90% booked I believe. By the way, me and the wife changed our minds and decided to return to the UK - we got all our deposit back (about 10% of total cost) - sales staff found someone else to take over our contract (made some money for themselves in the process too). This was slightly not by the book - if I'd formally asked the company to withdraw from my contract, I believe I'd have got back 80% of my deposit - not bad really, after all it is a "deposit".

So, I'd look at what your contract says about penalties for late construction and what capacity for "get out" you have. Mind you, for this company I wouldn't be suprised if both were not even mentioned in the contract. It also doesn't suprise me that they have noone able or williing to reply to e-mails in English. By the way, how much deposit have you paid?

God that was long winded, apologies and best of luck!

[amarka]

Hi Digger,

thanks for your comments once more...

it looks like the land is mortgaged as well, which i guess is normal. if they have really sold 50% and mortgaged the land they should be ok for funds ??

I cant comment on how solvent GA are - but i guess you only need one such project to turn a bit sour to have a drastic effect on the overall company cash flow.

yes i understand the logic you mention with price rises. its normal for developers to raise prices as each stage is completed. but the sales team seems to be under performing and it wont be made easier with big price rises.

the sales scenario you mention is very worrying if true....

yes i am a bit puzzled why it should be one year behind, given that they have mortgaged the land and have sold 50% already. they told me that in october 05..

thanks for your comments...

amarka

Yes it is normal that banks provide finance for such sized projects however they will only release funds based on % units sold - that way they minimise their exposure - a lesson learnt the hard way in '97 crash.

GA is not the most solvent of developers anyway and it appears they are getting ahead of themselves - again.     

Price rise is simple - in Thailand if things dont sell, the price goes up to compensate for lower sales - i.e fewer people buying still equals same money to the developer.  No logic in this but its how things work in Thailand.

25% of sales - yes for sure, but probably 50% of those have been sold at below cost to close friends, hoping to muck a quick buck when the thing is finished and the others are probably ficticious sales to keep the banks happy.  i.e use some id cards, pay the deposit and hey you have 25% sold and bank advances first tranche of money to get things underway.

Incidentally, there is NO reason for a building project to be 1 year behind schedule if its correctly managed.    Look at other condo's - they are more often than not coming in on time or within 30 days of when they said it would.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[amarka]

Hello Charles,

thank you for your reply..

so you dont rate GA ?

yes it seems to be a sales/cash issue at the moment, but like i said having mortgaged the land and sold 50% - they should have enough cash ??

no the contract does not penalise them in any way - just says if i am late in paying they can confiscate the condo and sell it to someone else.....

looks like your contract was a lot better... maybe GA planned things this way from the start?

i can get out - by selling to someone else, or GA does that for me. but i dont want to get out...... i want to get in - the condo.

the fact that they dont answer my e-mails annoys me more than anything, i will be in Thailand soon and i guess i shall have the answers...

thank you for your information and insight...

amarka

Welcome to Thailand, where NO building gets constructed within the advertised time period. 

As Digger says, this is simply not true. There are plenty of companies getting projects up on time, e.g., LPN, Supalai, Noble - there for all to see. Many of these are big projects too, which of course need professional management and proper funding.

Unfortunately professional management and proper funding might not be associated with Grande Asset. Really don't want to say "you should have done this.." in a smart arse kind of way, but this just illustrates why you should very carefully check out the developer if booking an off-plan condo.

Remember reading one of Grande Assets glossy brochures myself - they do nice brochures and nice renderings of buildings they plan to construct. Unfortunately, looking at their track record, one is left much less impressed. They have the Westin Sukhumvit and that is about it, otherwise they only have projects "under construction": one in Hua Hin (apparently progressing reasonably); the Holiday Inn on Sukhumvit (progressing although apparently not too fast); the Regent and "the Sales" in Pattaya (both still to 'get off the ground') and finally "the Trendy" condo next to the Regent. This place is the biggest red flag of all. It is taking them longer to refit an existing building than it takes the more professional developers to build a project from scratch! Quite clearly they do not have the sales or cash flow. Not to mention of course that any company that comes up with such a naf name as the Trendy for a condo aimed at foreigners needs their competence seriously questioned.

As for the contract, does it say anything about what happens if they don't complete on time? From my experience, last Feb the wife and I signed a contract with LPN Development PLC to buy a condo (off-plan) near Onnuj. Completion was set as June 2006. The contract was very specific about late completion. In the case of something unavoidable/not their fault (e.g. due to the authorities or something) they could delay for up to one year, but they would have to inform the customer straight away and the customer had the right, if he wished, to withdraw from the contract and get all his money back. Other than such cases, they guaranteed to complete the project by early August 2006 (i.e. within 2 months of schedule), if they failed to do so they would incur fines (paid to the customer) and again the customer could choose to get his money back.

Of course, the above company knows what it's doing, quite evidently it will be completed on time and is already about 90% booked I believe. By the way, me and the wife changed our minds and decided to return to the UK - we got all our deposit back (about 10% of total cost) - sales staff found someone else to take over our contract (made some money for themselves in the process too). This was slightly not by the book - if I'd formally asked the company to withdraw from my contract, I believe I'd have got back 80% of my deposit - not bad really, after all it is a "deposit".

So, I'd look at what your contract says about penalties for late construction and what capacity for "get out" you have. Mind you, for this company I wouldn't be suprised if both were not even mentioned in the contract. It also doesn't suprise me that they have noone able or williing to reply to e-mails in English. By the way, how much deposit have you paid?

God that was long winded, apologies and best of luck!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Beer-diow, khao-neow, mai-an!]

Just to repeat, I had no such problems with a Noble project. Finished 99% in line with deadline, and with clear penalties to them if they hadn't done so.

Good luck with GAM - hopefully they'll be more responsive on the ground. TBH, Dec 06 was always impossible given the size of the project, so this might not be a slip, just a return to reality from an overly-aggressive sales pitch...

[charles]

Good luck with GAM - hopefully they'll be more responsive on the ground. TBH, Dec 06 was always impossible given the size of the project, so this might not be a slip, just a return to reality from an overly-aggressive sales pitch...

Fair enough, but it is not far off 2 years between launching the project and breaking ground...not acceptable (in my opinion). An "overly-aggressive sales pitch" might also be described as downright lieing.

Personally, I just think that for a "high class" condo there are so many better choices (e.g. Madison, Fullerton, Park Chidlom etc) - and for all these places construction is quite well to very well advanced. I think the Regent's weakness in terms of management and also location (in my opinion) is evidenced by its weak sales - and if a place in this price range hasn't got good bookings by now, it looks like it will really struggle from now on.

[amarka]

Hi ... beer....

yes you might be right, maybe the end date was always too optimistic.

they seem to be working on the project all the time and now have the foundations complete and the next team has moved in....

so i guess we shall see..

thank you for your comments

amarka

Just to repeat, I had no such problems with a Noble project. Finished 99% in line with deadline, and with clear penalties to them if they hadn't done so.

Good luck with GAM - hopefully they'll be more responsive on the ground. TBH, Dec 06 was always impossible given the size of the project, so this might not be a slip, just a return to reality from an overly-aggressive sales pitch...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[amarka]

Hello charles,

when was the project first launched?

yes there is a difference between optimism and telling lies.

Mmm i like the location, but then i am only a tourist ( most of the time ) but i am looking for a second condo - given that this one is so late - can you recomend something that will be finished late 2006 ?

i am surprised that the sales have not been stronger at the Regents, but like i said i am an outsider, so i dont really know BKK that well.

thanks for the info.

amarka

Good luck with GAM - hopefully they'll be more responsive on the ground. TBH, Dec 06 was always impossible given the size of the project, so this might not be a slip, just a return to reality from an overly-aggressive sales pitch...

Fair enough, but it is not far off 2 years between launching the project and breaking ground...not acceptable (in my opinion). An "overly-aggressive sales pitch" might also be described as downright lieing.

Personally, I just think that for a "high class" condo there are so many better choices (e.g. Madison, Fullerton, Park Chidlom etc) - and for all these places construction is quite well to very well advanced. I think the Regent's weakness in terms of management and also location (in my opinion) is evidenced by its weak sales - and if a place in this price range hasn't got good bookings by now, it looks like it will really struggle from now on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[steveromagnino]

THe success of Land and House type companies is that they go the opposite way and sell after building, to remove that off the plans but not finished at all/on time risk.

Then you have several good developers (including us I suppose) who for the most part run on time, deliver on spec, and mostly run a tight ship. Sansiri, Noble, LPN, Asia Properties all have as good a reputation as the same sorts of companies where I used to live in NZ (where it is almost always the case that projects are finished behind time and sometimes under spec.

The 25% ratio is definitely true for earlier projects; a developer without a track record is looked at extremely skeptically by most Thais who recall 1997/98, and most savvy foreigners as well.

So they quickly flick off a bunch to their mates (including themselves) to get the percentage sold up fast, and when a new buyer sees 95% sold, they figure, this must be alright, 95% of the building can't all be stupid.

And often the sales staff can juggle around 'I know about someone wanting to onsell' is a common line. THis, in my expeience, occurs pretty much everywhere in the world. Developer takes an option on the land; pitches the project; reaches a series of points in sales at which point the person funding it, bank or similar, reaches into their wallet and coughs up cash.

Regarding why the project might struggle to sell at the moment, Lower Suk IMHO has a reasonably nasty neighbourhood on that side unless you get deeper into the sois; the opposite side looks onto the monopoly which is greener. My boss sold all their land and properties in this lower Suk area behind where the Regent is simply because it was no longer a place they felt comfortable driving around; beer bars, prostitutes everywhere and so on. That said, a few big quality developments, and areas can scrub up; like the area aruond LPN in Suttisan which used to be a supreme slum.

For now though, the traffic in that area is bad, but so is pretty much all of Suk, Chitlom is a pain to get to and there are a few out by Sathorn but traffic isn't much better. So there is quite a lot of competition, and at least as it seems to me, they have a worse track record than some of the other projects developers. And guys like Sansiri with a fairly large stock have been selling off with some pretty good deals on the other side, I think Soi 8? so it makes it harder when you have a bigger company with a better record discounting (which they can do, because Sansiri probably have a lower cost to do business).

Of course, why are they ramping up the price? To some degree, it placates the people already in, and also, it encourages new buyers with a sleight of hand; 'the prices have risen since we first started selling the project, so if we project this for another 20- years look at the capital gain!"

Of course, you would have to be a bit naive to believe that, but as an agent, it is worth a shot, and again, not solely in Thailand, occurs other places too.

It looks like a very impressive building, so I hope it all comes through for you! Good luck.

[amarka]

Hello stevero...

thank you for your reply...

selling when complete has its problems too..... but less risk agreed.

can you let me know what your website is, if not via this forum - then message me, i would be most grateful, i am sick of staying in Hotels and need a condo earlier than this one in the Regents will be finished.

yes i realise that some sales figures will be fictional - but do you really beleive as much as 25% - thats a heck of a lot of units and if sold at a considerable discount would badly effect the overall project profitability.

why is lower suk nasty? or do you mean seedy? is there trouble there? yes there are lots of bars and stuff, but some good restaurants too and lots of fun.. sorry i'm a tourist mainly!

traffic is not a problem with the skytrain right outside? at least not for me...

yes the building looks impressive and i guess the location is fine for tourists but i have to admit if i did actually live in BKK i would proabaly seek somewhere else...

thank you for your comments - most helpful.

amarka

THe success of Land and House type companies is that they go the opposite way and sell after building, to remove that off the plans but not finished at all/on time risk.

Then you have several good developers (including us I suppose) who for the most part run on time, deliver on spec, and mostly run a tight ship.  Sansiri, Noble, LPN, Asia Properties all have as good a reputation as the same sorts of companies where I used to live in NZ (where it is almost always the case that projects are finished behind time and sometimes under spec.

The 25% ratio is definitely true for earlier projects; a developer without a track record is looked at extremely skeptically by most Thais who recall 1997/98, and most savvy foreigners as well.

So they quickly flick  off a bunch to their mates (including themselves) to get the percentage sold up fast, and when a new buyer sees 95% sold, they figure, this must be alright, 95% of the building can't all be stupid.

And often the sales staff can juggle around 'I know about someone wanting to onsell' is a common line.  THis, in my expeience, occurs pretty much everywhere in the world.  Developer takes an option on the land; pitches the project; reaches a series of points in sales at which point the person funding it, bank or similar, reaches into their wallet and coughs up cash.

Regarding why the project might struggle to sell at the moment, Lower Suk IMHO has a reasonably nasty neighbourhood on that side unless you get deeper into the sois; the opposite side looks onto the monopoly which is greener.  My boss sold all their land and properties in this lower Suk area behind where the Regent is simply because it was no longer a place they felt comfortable driving around; beer bars, prostitutes everywhere and so on.  That said, a few big quality developments, and areas can scrub up; like the area aruond LPN in Suttisan which used to be a supreme slum.

For now though, the traffic in that area is bad, but so is pretty much all of Suk, Chitlom is a pain to get to and there are a few out by Sathorn but traffic isn't much better.  So there is quite a lot of competition, and at least as it seems to me, they have a worse track record than some of the other projects developers.  And guys like Sansiri with a fairly large stock have been selling off with some pretty good deals on the other side, I think Soi 8?  so it makes it harder when you have a bigger company with a better record discounting (which they can do, because Sansiri probably have a lower cost to do business).

Of course, why are they ramping up the price?  To some degree, it placates the people already in, and also, it encourages new buyers with a sleight of hand; 'the prices have risen since we first started selling the project, so if we project this for another 20- years look at the capital gain!"

Of course, you would have to be a bit naive to believe that, but as an agent, it is worth a shot, and again, not solely in Thailand, occurs other places too.

It looks like a very impressive building, so I hope it all comes through for you!  Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[IndoRealty]

I also signed up for one unit at the Regent Residences

back in early Feb 2005. Back then the sales was done by Harrison and not CBRE

My contract says Dec. 2007 as completion date. Transfer

date, I was told by Grande Asset engineer, was probably in the middle of 2008.

Maybe your contract had a typo of 2006 instead of 2007.

Dont worry about all those negative comments. Grande Asset

is one solid company. Banks and bond investors were competing to

buy the company's bonds back in early 2005.

hi...

i have a signed contract for a condo in the Regents residences. its says completion will be December 2006.

i signed the contract in march 2005.

now the sales people say December 2007. thats a whole year late already.

does anyone else have a contract for completion for December 2006?

what can be done about this? i have written to the Regents and they dont reply.

any sensible comments welcome.

happy new year to everyone

amarka

Regarding why the project might struggle to sell at the moment, Lower Suk IMHO has a reasonably nasty neighbourhood on that side unless you get deeper into the sois; the opposite side looks onto the monopoly which is greener. My boss sold all their land and properties in this lower Suk area behind where the Regent is simply because it was no longer a place they felt comfortable driving around; beer bars, prostitutes everywhere and so on. That said, a few big quality developments, and areas can scrub up; like the area aruond LPN in Suttisan which used to be a supreme slum.

For now though, the traffic in that area is bad, but so is pretty much all of Suk, Chitlom is a pain to get to and there are a few out by Sathorn but traffic isn't much better. So there is quite a lot of competition, and at least as it seems to me, they have a worse track record than some of the other projects developers. And guys like Sansiri with a fairly large stock have been selling off with some pretty good deals on the other side, I think Soi 8? so it makes it harder when you have a bigger company with a better record discounting (which they can do, because Sansiri probably have a lower cost to do business).

The entire Bangkok or Thailand for that matter is seedy. Bangkok is the centre of sex, prostitution you name it of Asia.

Sukhumvit's traffic is bad? get real. where in Bangkok do you not see traffic jam?

The great thing is that Regent is only 53-second walk to Nana BTS station.

[bluedragon]

Welcome to Thailand, where NO building gets constructed within the advertised time period. 

As Digger says, this is simply not true. There are plenty of companies getting projects up on time, e.g., LPN, Supalai, Noble - there for all to see. Many of these are big projects too, which of course need professional management and proper funding.

Unfortunately professional management and proper funding might not be associated with Grande Asset. Really don't want to say "you should have done this.." in a smart arse kind of way, but this just illustrates why you should very carefully check out the developer if booking an off-plan condo.

Remember reading one of Grande Assets glossy brochures myself - they do nice brochures and nice renderings of buildings they plan to construct. Unfortunately, looking at their track record, one is left much less impressed. They have the Westin Sukhumvit and that is about it, otherwise they only have projects "under construction": one in Hua Hin (apparently progressing reasonably); the Holiday Inn on Sukhumvit (progressing although apparently not too fast); the Regent and "the Sales" in Pattaya (both still to 'get off the ground') and finally "the Trendy" condo next to the Regent. This place is the biggest red flag of all. It is taking them longer to refit an existing building than it takes the more professional developers to build a project from scratch! Quite clearly they do not have the sales or cash flow. Not to mention of course that any company that comes up with such a naf name as the Trendy for a condo aimed at foreigners needs their competence seriously questioned.

As for the contract, does it say anything about what happens if they don't complete on time? From my experience, last Feb the wife and I signed a contract with LPN Development PLC to buy a condo (off-plan) near Onnuj. Completion was set as June 2006. The contract was very specific about late completion. In the case of something unavoidable/not their fault (e.g. due to the authorities or something) they could delay for up to one year, but they would have to inform the customer straight away and the customer had the right, if he wished, to withdraw from the contract and get all his money back. Other than such cases, they guaranteed to complete the project by early August 2006 (i.e. within 2 months of schedule), if they failed to do so they would incur fines (paid to the customer) and again the customer could choose to get his money back.

Of course, the above company knows what it's doing, quite evidently it will be completed on time and is already about 90% booked I believe. By the way, me and the wife changed our minds and decided to return to the UK - we got all our deposit back (about 10% of total cost) - sales staff found someone else to take over our contract (made some money for themselves in the process too). This was slightly not by the book - if I'd formally asked the company to withdraw from my contract, I believe I'd have got back 80% of my deposit - not bad really, after all it is a "deposit".

So, I'd look at what your contract says about penalties for late construction and what capacity for "get out" you have. Mind you, for this company I wouldn't be suprised if both were not even mentioned in the contract. It also doesn't suprise me that they have noone able or williing to reply to e-mails in English. By the way, how much deposit have you paid?

God that was long winded, apologies and best of luck!

Ok, "buying a condon (off plan)" was mentioned a couple of times. What exactly does that mean??

[IndoRealty]

Then all of those bond and equity investors and also banks which have invested into Grande Asset are totally wrong ????

Grand asset share has shot up from Bt1.47/share on 1 Dec to Bt1.96 closing on 16Jan, 31% increase. This is a phony increase????

check it out from www.set.or.th

click on historical trading, ticker is GRAND

Yes it is normal that banks provide finance for such sized projects however they will only release funds based on % units sold - that way they minimise their exposure - a lesson learnt the hard way in '97 crash.

GA is not the most solvent of developers anyway and it appears they are getting ahead of themselves - again.

[IndoRealty]

i am surprised that the sales have not been stronger at the Regents, but like i said i am an outsider, so i dont really know BKK that well.

From what i was told, Grande Asset could not get the license on time to build the project from the land department. The land department was demanding the company to donate land from the project for the widening of Sukhumvit 13 which they finally agreed toward second half of 2005. And this was the main problem of the delay. I dealt directly with Grande Asset people and instead of that useless agents Harrison which didnt do a great job on the sales. I also doubt the professionality of the people at Harrisson (Harrison lost my check on the 2nd installment).

Ever since CBRE took over since Dec 2005, sales have been quite good, given the slow down in property sales in Bkk. In December 2005, CBRE sold 10 units at the Regents and last week they sold 3 units. I have been communicating with Sophia who speaks English very well. I have sent you her contact number privately.

All corner units have been gone. If your unit is corner unit and if you are worried so much about the development, you can sell it now. There are people who want to buy corner units.

Edited January 17, 2006 by IndoRealty

[charles]

Maybe your contract had a typo of 2006 instead of 2007.

The entire Bangkok or Thailand for that matter is seedy.

Are you being serious? Have you compared, for example, the Ploenchit-Ruam Rudee-Chidlom area or the Thonglor area after 9 p.m. to the area around the Regent?

A typo? Think they may have changed the contract once they realized they couldn't keep their dates.

As for share price fluctuations, come on, this isn't the UK, could mean all sorts of things and not necessarily related to the company's real financial position. Wasn't Grande Asset in it's previous incarnation a desperately indebted company (run by the same people).

Finally, why is Grande Assets "Trendy Condominium" project (refurbishment of existing building next to the Regent) also moving at a desperately slow if not non-existent pace?

Edited January 17, 2006 by charles

[backflip]

"Finally, why is Grande Assets 'Trendy Condominium' project (refurbishment of existing building next to the Regent) also moving at a desperately slow if not non-existent pace?"

Because they change plans in mid-stride. Before anything else was done, they widened the Soi, repaved the sidewalk, and then touched up the exterior. The plans were then revised to do a more complete ovehaul, and you see the results. Rather than a simple "refurb", the building is being completely gutted. Too, as someone else posted earlier, Thailand is not known for getting things built on time.

[IndoRealty]

Charles, if you are so disgusted by the idea of prostitution, why settle in Bangkok or even come to Thailand?

If I am not mistaken, you may have bought a unit in Athenee residence? Quit bad mouthing about other projects, you wrote so many articles bad mouthing about Regent residences in thaivisa and also skyscrapercity. What's your point of doing this? to boost up your athenee residence purchase? or to make you look smarter than others who bought Regent?

Bangkok is full of prostitutions for that matter. Why dont you flaunt your purchase of a Bangkok condo for Bt25million something back home in England or whereever you come from, see whether you impres anyone.

I got my contract written Dec 2007 as completion date and this is before this Amarka guy bought the unit, I dealt with Grande Asset instead of Harrisson since there was a misunderstanding with regards to the 5% discount that I got. (Harisson told me that the discount was applied to every installments whereas Grande Asset as owner of the projects thinks the entire discounts will only be applicable during the transfer of the remaining payments of 70%). Harrison was not too professional from my experience dealing with them.

Grande Asset has been listed on the stock exchange in 2003. No to answer your question it is not like TPI, listed under Rehabilitation company.

Please look at my earlier posting. They couldnt get the license from the government on time so it was somewhat delayed. When license is not issued, they cannot start any construction of the project.

Please note that the house at the corner of Regent will always be there. It belongs to K. Lek Nana, the wealthy landlord who used to own plots of land around Nana area. So dont start a rumour that it will become a massage parlour or seedy bar. Nana family is rich enough and wont engage in such business.

Maybe your contract had a typo of 2006 instead of 2007.

The entire Bangkok or Thailand for that matter is seedy.

Are you being serious? Have you compared, for example, the Ploenchit-Ruam Rudee-Chidlom area or the Thonglor area after 9 p.m. to the area around the Regent?

A typo? Think they may have changed the contract once they realized they couldn't keep their dates.

As for share price fluctuations, come on, this isn't the UK, could mean all sorts of things and not necessarily related to the company's real financial position. Wasn't Grande Asset in it's previous incarnation a desperately indebted company (run by the same people).

Finally, why is Grande Assets "Trendy Condominium" project (refurbishment of existing building next to the Regent) also moving at a desperately slow if not non-existent pace?

Edited January 18, 2006 by IndoRealty

[IndoRealty]

I just spoke with people at the Grande Asset today:

- Structural work by Syntec : another 26 months from today: --> March 2008

- Finishing work by another contractor another 12 months from March 2008: --> March 2009

- Transfer with land department at the earliest June 2009.

So only in 2009 you will enjoy the Regent Residences.

[charles]

Charles, if you are so disgusted by the idea of prostitution, why settle in Bangkok or even come to Thailand?

If I am not mistaken, you may have bought a unit in Athenee residence? Quit bad mouthing about other projects, you wrote so many articles bad mouthing about Regent residences in thaivisa and also skyscrapercity. What's your point of doing this? to boost up your athenee residence purchase? or to make you look smarter than others who bought Regent?

Bangkok is full of prostitutions for that matter. Why dont you flaunt your purchase of a Bangkok condo for Bt25million something back home in England or whereever you come from, see whether you impres anyone.

Grande Asset has been listed on the stock exchange in 2003. No to answer your question it is not like TPI, listed under Rehabilitation company.

Think you've got a bit hot under the collar there and you may have confused me with other people but I'll try to address your points:

Firstly I've not bought a unit in Athenee Residence or any other condo in Thailand. I've always rented here. I have no involvement in real estate and no vested interests whatsoever - unlike you as a buyer of Regent Residences I'd venture to suggest.

Secondly, this is a discussion forum where people offer their opinions and advice. My opinion is that people should be very wary about pre-booking with Grande Asset. Others may disagree with this, offer their own "evidence" and then people looking for information on the subject can make their own minds up. Sometimes peoples opinions/advice on Thai Visa can make a real difference to people, and save them a lot of money and problems.

As for Grande Asset, I'm not the only one sceptical and I think so far much of the scepticism appears to have some justification. Certainly their two big condo projects on Sukhumvit have gone back way beyond their original schedules. May not bother some customers, but to others it must be a major disappointment and inconvenience - not to mention a bit of a worry - even more so when their sales contracts apparently offer no redress (unlike some other more reliable developers).

As for prostitution, I've no problem at all and have enjoyed a bit of nightlife in my time. Just been arguing, like many others, that a center of street prostitution/ladyboy activity might not be an ideal location for a high class residence. People might not want to walk into all that every time they pop out of the door and the location could even prove a bit embarressing for some executive types, but of course it depends on individual preference. Point is up-market residences the world over are not generally located in down-market red light areas. In Bangkok, the Ruam Rudee and Thonglor areas, for example, are two areas that are very pleasant and full of up-market apartments/condos, and might be worth considering for those looking for a top end residence.

As for the background of Grande Asset and the people who run it, I'm not an expert but believe they have a bit more "history" prior to listing in 2003.

At the end of the day, I'm sure people making 10 million baht decisions would like as much info and opinions as possible before taking the plunge. If you don't like the opinions, you can always disregard them!

Edited January 18, 2006 by charles

[thaigene2]

Wow..

My two-bits worth:

1. All these condos are over-priced. 75-100,000 Baht per M2 in BKK is ridiculously high given the relative value of the land and the poor quality of construction and maintenance. A-grade or B-grade - it doesn't seem to matter as far as I can tell.

2. The market is falling, there is over-supply, interest rates are rising and oil and steel prices are sky-high.

3. Young thai-chinese buyers (the bulk of the local market) have already purchased, so developers are chasing farang and japanese/chinese foreign buyers.

4. Given point 1, 2 and 3 why on earth would anyone still be buying off-plan?

5. High end places may retain value better than low-end, but you'd better be prepared to live there forever or lose money on resale (your only real market is another foreigner for used property..)

6. Don't be fooled by rising prices. As already mentioned by other seasoned LOS vets, it's a bewildering custom of the thai-chinese merchant-class establishment here - when the customers dry up, they raise the prices to make up for the short-fall.

7. When you see "90% sold" it may well mean (as mentioned) to 'friends' who haven't really bought anything at all (though some will have)

8. At auctions the developers use an old trick of getting decoys to bid up the price and 'snap up' a few places. It's an old 'carnival trick', where the guy selling snake oil fires up the crowd with the sale's pitch, and then four or five decoys stick up their hands flash their cash and buy a few bottles - just to get the suckers buying..I've gone back to developments after the condo auction sold 80% of a new development only to find that more than half the units were still for sale..hmmm, now how could that be?

[backflip]

"2. The market is falling, there is over-supply...

6. Don't be fooled by rising prices..."

A falling market with rising prices - does not compute.

[IndoRealty]

Think you've got a bit hot under the collar there and you may have confused me with other people but I'll try to address your points:

There's one poster with nick "Charles W" on skyscrapercity who on every single occasion writes very negative comments about the Regent Residences or Grande Asset. I had assumed this "Charles W" was you. Perhaps the competitors of Grande Asset hire many Charles'es

Edited January 19, 2006 by IndoRealty

[charles]

Think you've got a bit hot under the collar there and you may have confused me with other people but I'll try to address your points:

There's one poster with nick "Charles W" on skyscrapercity who on every single occasion writes very negative comments about the Regent Residences or Grande Asset. I had assumed this "Charles W" was you. Perhaps the competitors of Grande Asset hire many Charles'es

Yeah that's me! When I said you may have confused me with other people I was referring to your belief I'd bought a unit in Athenee Residence. I haven't.

I'm honestly not associated with any "competitors" of Grande Asset. But I can understand you might not believe me. Basically I just think that Grande Asset are a dodgy bunch, not competent or trustworthy. Nothing more than that.

You see the full page advert in the Bangkok Post yesterday for the Trendy Conduminium - "for your trendy lifestyle" etc. etc. You think any remotely competent company marketing a condo to foreigners would come up with stuff like that? It's embarressing. The advert also says "completed early 2006". Yeah right! Have you seen the place? What I've tried to argue is that if they are so incompetent/unprofessional as to choose the name/concept "the Trendy", then can you trust their competence in developing the condo itself? The answer to that is there for all to see.

Anyway I'll try my best not to comment on Grande Asset any more, think I've made my point!