Family Visit Visa Refused

[pimpim]

Hi

My wife and I who has settlement in the UK recently applied for my sister in law to visit so she could spend time with us and our baby. I was happy to sponsor and pay for everything.

The visa was refused on the grounds of reason to return. My sister in law lives in Laos with her mother and doesnt have a husband or any children of her own and doesnt have what we would call a job. They are fairly self sufficient and only work when there is rice.

Her circumstances are unlikely to change, so is there nothing we can do? It seems unfair to be refused because she doesnt have children or property or a job. I would imagine big percentage of the Laos population doesnt have an official job.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[fredob43]

Sorry to tell you that.

No job no kid's no prospect's and she's from one of the worst place's Laos = no reason to return, so no visa. It's not to easy to get a visa at the best of time. She does not fit the bill so don't waste your money trying.

Edited May 23, 2012 by fredob43

[crille30]

If you/her know some one in Lao that have a businnes you can try to make them "hire" her as staff,manager is good title,not just normal staff but make her look importent and that she have a great job so she will return.Problem is that she already was denied visa so to apply a couple of months later and then with a good job maby looks strange,but give a try.Wait 6month.Good luck.

[7by7]

I'm afraid it is impossible to give anything other than general comments like those above without knowing the exact reasons for refusal; which will be given on the refusal notice.

Is it possible for you to post a copy here; removing all names and other identifying information?

Family visit refusals can be appealed against, so she should consider that option; but the appeal notice must be returned to the embassy within 28 days of the refusal; so she hasn't got long.

I would strongly advise against making up information such as a non existent job; lying in a visa application could mean a 10 year ban from the UK.

[pimpim]

The Entry Clearance Officers words on the refusal are as follows:-

I have refused your application on this occassion because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you meet all the requirements of paragraph 41 of the Immigration Rules. Intends to leave the Isle of Man at the end of the period of visit as stated by her.

They did also confirm on the refusal that they were satisfied that I could sponsor.

Seems a bit unfair to me to tell us that you can't ever see your sister and baby at their home unless you change your way of life.

[7by7]

We actually need to see all of the refusal notice, in particular the reasons that would have been given for reaching that conclusion, to be able to advise.

As she was applying to visit the Isle of Man her application would not have been decided in Bangkok but referred to the Isle of Man Immigration Office. Her appeal, should she wish to make one, will be decided there as well.

See CTA4 Isle of Man on this page.

NB.

I'm sure the OP knows this, but for the benefit of others who may not; the Isle of Man is not actually part of the UK, it is a Crown Dependency.

[thaigirllondon]

How old is the child and has your sister-in-law seen her before?

[pimpim]

Thanks for the replies. I'm aware I'm too late to appeal but don't want to give up and not apply at a later date.

My sister in law met our son briefly during Songkran, we actually went with her to VFS.

I've attached the refusal notice.

Edited May 23, 2012 by pimpim

[VisasPlus]

Thanks for the replies. I'm aware I'm too late to appeal but don't want to give up and not apply at a later date.

My sister in law met our son briefly during Songkran, we actually went with her to VFS.

I've attached the refusal notice.

Actually, you are not too late to appeal, should you wish to do so. Your sister in law has 28 days from receipt of the notice of refusal to appeal.

That said, it would be very difficult to overcome the reasons for refusal, especially as the application was for your sister in law to see her sister, but they saw each other just last month. A successful application will need a stronger reason, I think.

[7by7]

We actually need to see all of the refusal notice, in particular the reasons that would have been given for reaching that conclusion, to be able to advise..

It seems that IoM refusal notices are a lot less detailed than UK ones.

If the sisters had not seen each other for some time, then she may stand a better chance, but as they only saw each other last month, and presumably the baby as well, then I, too, think it is unlikely any appeal will succeed..

Although that has nothing to do with the reason for the refusal, which was reason to return.

She has 28 days from 3rd May in which to submit an appeal; maybe worth a shot.

[boof623]

Hi,

Reason to return is a tricky one when the person has no job etc, In my case in Australia i just told them the truth to what our plans were for my wife's sister.

We used to send her money over every month for her and son to help them out (she was also taking care of my wife's daughter to a previous marriage until the ex would allow her to migrate).

Reason for visit was 1 to see her, 2 to say thank you (for taking care of wife's daughter, now lives with us) and 3 to introduce her to some nice men for prospective marriage and ultimately get married to an Australian citizen and migrate also.

Her reason for return was quite simple as i told the case manager, if she didn't go back at the end of the visa i would cut her of financially, and secondly it would mean that she wouldn't be able to obtain further visas to visit or get married to an Australian citizen and migrate.

He said they were acceptable, valid reasons and the 3 month visitors visa was granted on the spot.

She met someone nice while she was here, didn't overstay, they followed the prospective spouse visa route, was back out here again about 7 months after her return on a prospective spouse visa, where they got married and now have a lovely 3 year old girl, soon her waiting time will be up and she will become an Australian citizen.

The plans worked out, whether your intentions are similar or not i don't know, but i would think that the immigration dept are not extremely concerned if another person migrates just so long as they follow the rules, so having a plan for her can help you out with a reason to return.....

[jboras]

It can be done. There are a number of "Visa Agencies" that will prepare all the documents that embassies normally require including the employment details.

Just last week a guy (we got to know) wanted to take a girl he met at a bar to Australia. He engaged the services of an agency, they did all the paper work including here employment status as an office girl and voila 3 month Visitor Visa. I am not sure what fee he paid but he did NOTHING and his girl simply received a call to verify some details and ... it was approved.....

[VisasPlus]

It can be done. There are a number of "Visa Agencies" that will prepare all the documents that embassies normally require including the employment details.

Just last week a guy (we got to know) wanted to take a girl he met at a bar to Australia. He engaged the services of an agency, they did all the paper work including here employment status as an office girl and voila 3 month Visitor Visa. I am not sure what fee he paid but he did NOTHING and his girl simply received a call to verify some details and ... it was approved.....

Yes, we know this is possible, but it is not the sort of advice that is acceptable here. You are advising someone to do something illegal.

[Grendel]

This happened to me twice. First time the Embassy in BKK turned the sister in law down, Iiving in BKK and I got the decision overturned myself thanks to a little corruption by high ranking embassy staff.

Second time she got turned down (despite after returning home from the first visit) I was in the UK, so appealed. The apeal is dealt with by the Home Office,not the Foriegn, a whole different kettle of fish. You get to stand up in front of judge and argue your case face to face and the whole business (after dealing with the embassy in BKK) seemed really fair, After watching a string of cases where illegal immigrants (clearly lying) were pulled apart by the judge with questions, I just went up and spoke the truth honestly, put my side across. A week later the refusal was overturned and the main reason given, I was acredible witness.

My suggestion is definately appeal.

[VisasPlus]

This happened to me twice. First time the Embassy in BKK turned the sister in law down, Iiving in BKK and I got the decision overturned myself thanks to a little corruption by high ranking embassy staff.

Second time she got turned down (despite after returning home from the first visit) I was in the UK, so appealed. The apeal is dealt with by the Home Office,not the Foriegn, a whole different kettle of fish. You get to stand up in front of judge and argue your case face to face and the whole business (after dealing with the embassy in BKK) seemed really fair, After watching a string of cases where illegal immigrants (clearly lying) were pulled apart by the judge with questions, I just went up and spoke the truth honestly, put my side across. A week later the refusal was overturned and the main reason given, I was acredible witness.

My suggestion is definately appeal.

What exactly do you mean by "..........thanks to a little corruption by high ranking embassy staff." I have to say that I find that hard, if not impossible, to believe. Would you like to explain ?

[7by7]

It can be done. There are a number of "Visa Agencies" that will prepare all the documents that embassies normally require including the employment details.

Just last week a guy (we got to know) wanted to take a girl he met at a bar to Australia. He engaged the services of an agency, they did all the paper work including here employment status as an office girl and voila 3 month Visitor Visa. I am not sure what fee he paid but he did NOTHING and his girl simply received a call to verify some details and ... it was approved.....

Yes, we know this is possible, but it is not the sort of advice that is acceptable here. You are advising someone to do something illegal.

Using false evidence in an attempt to obtain a visa is illegal.

The consequences can be severe if caught.

I don't know about Australia, but the UK do randomly check with employers and others.

This type of fraud in a UK application would certainly result in the applicant being banned from visiting the UK for 10 years; possibly from entering the UK in any capacity for life.

Don't risk it.

[7by7]

This happened to me twice. First time the Embassy in BKK turned the sister in law down, Iiving in BKK and I got the decision overturned myself thanks to a little corruption by high ranking embassy staff.

What exactly do you mean by "..........thanks to a little corruption by high ranking embassy staff." I have to say that I find that hard, if not impossible, to believe. Would you like to explain ?

I. too, would be very interested to know what you mean by this tantalising phrase.

From what you have said, it seems she obtained her first visa illegally. This wont go away, and will hang over her head. If this "little corruption by high ranking embassy staff" is anything more than a figment of your imagination, then if it is ever discovered the consequences for you sister-in-law could be the same as those I mention above.

[7by7]

Please remember that the OP's sister-in-law applied to visit the Isle of Man; not the UK (nor Australia).

As already said, the IoM is not part of the UK, it is a Crown dependency.

Although applications are submitted via the British embassy, UK ECOs play no part in the decision making. Applications are sent to the Isle of Man immigration office for a decision. Any appeal should be submitted to the IoM immigration office, as it says on the refusal notice.

[Baerboxer]

Hi,

Reason to return is a tricky one when the person has no job etc, In my case in Australia i just told them the truth to what our plans were for my wife's sister.

We used to send her money over every month for her and son to help them out (she was also taking care of my wife's daughter to a previous marriage until the ex would allow her to migrate).

Reason for visit was 1 to see her, 2 to say thank you (for taking care of wife's daughter, now lives with us) and 3 to introduce her to some nice men for prospective marriage and ultimately get married to an Australian citizen and migrate also.

Her reason for return was quite simple as i told the case manager, if she didn't go back at the end of the visa i would cut her of financially, and secondly it would mean that she wouldn't be able to obtain further visas to visit or get married to an Australian citizen and migrate.

He said they were acceptable, valid reasons and the 3 month visitors visa was granted on the spot.

She met someone nice while she was here, didn't overstay, they followed the prospective spouse visa route, was back out here again about 7 months after her return on a prospective spouse visa, where they got married and now have a lovely 3 year old girl, soon her waiting time will be up and she will become an Australian citizen.

The plans worked out, whether your intentions are similar or not i don't know, but i would think that the immigration dept are not extremely concerned if another person migrates just so long as they follow the rules, so having a plan for her can help you out with a reason to return.....

This is a nice story and probably illustrates that Australian officials take a more common sense human approach than that often exhibited by their British counterparts.

[Yodrak]

"The visa was refused on the grounds of reason to return. My sister in law lives in Laos with her mother and doesnt have a husband or any children of her own and doesnt have what we would call a job. They are fairly self sufficient and only work when there is rice.

Her circumstances are unlikely to change, so is there nothing we can do? It seems unfair to be refused because she doesnt have children or property or a job."

She wasn't refused because she doesn't have children, or property, or a job. She was refused because she offered no reason why she must return to Laos.

Does she have a reason to return to Laos? Don't fret over what reasons she doesn't have, determine what reasons she does have and help her to document them.

Be honest with yourself - if she doesn't have any compelling reason to return to Laos, she isn't going to get a visa and that's why.

[7by7]

I have known many instances where UK visit visa applicants have received visas when they have had no concrete reason to return. Including my wife's sister.

A lot of it comes down, as Yodrak says, to how the case is presented.

This is a nice story and probably illustrates that Australian officials take a more common sense human approach than that often exhibited by their British counterparts.

Not British counterparts in this case but Isle of Man ones.

[alanrobson]

A little point for you, when my Thai Mrs applied or her first visit visa we (she) didnt really have what can be deemed as the official reasons to return to Thailand (house, job etc). So, the Mrs is always resourceful and she made a list of all the things she liked about her life in Thailand and Thailand as her country....my wife is very imaginative so it didnt say stuff about the love of the King, Thais all being Jai dee etc. It was a pretty funny list.

She also made a list of reasons why she didn't want to live in the UK (she had been with me quite a while and also knew loads of expat Brits) . this list was also well funny.

Anyway, she editted thboth lists and submitted a seperate doc of her reasons to return and reasons for nt wanting to live in the UK. I swear I sent that doc to all my mates connected with Thais and Thailand and it got a shit load of laughs.

She submitted it and she got a multi entry visa. I bet that lighteed their day, especially so as one of them called her and ask her some normal Qs and then asked her a specific point about the doc. I swear he couldnt stop himself.