Building A Small Home In Bangkok

[newhomepages]

My wife and I have started to build a house in Bangkok. It is about 200 square meters (including decks and flat roof), two story, loft style tropical modern home made from concrete and masonry bricks. The cost (not including land) will be 2.6 million. We designed it ourselves and hired a contractor to do all the construction.

I hope people in this forum will be interested, and our journey into home building can help others doing the same.

My wife is from Thailand and I am from America. We both live in Bangkok full time now.

Pictures and stories coming soon.

You can see a 3D video on YouTube made from a Google Sketchup file of the floor plans here:

watch?v=d2AZeRnok7c

-Ed and Emi

[draftvader]

Will be curious how this pans out. I really hope it works and that you have found a contractor like I have for my latest project. Took 4 months of waiting and a 2 week delay to the project after day 1, but once they established themselves in the project they have been working hard 6 days a week. Good crew with a level-headed crew-boss. However this is the 1st contractor crew in nearly 10 projects that have actually been worthwhile.

I think I might hold them hostage in an empty room so that they don't disappear into thin air leaving me with "Of course I can do that" and friends!

[bankruatsteve]

Good luck! Since you designed it yourself, you should be prepared to be VERY hands on supervision during construction. Unless you have a very specific contract with your builder for end product, remember that YOU are the boss and suggest you review the many threads in this forum for things you need to keep on top of.

[newhomepages]

Thanks for your hopes and wishes of luck - I know we need it. Bankruatsteve, I have been going to the construction site every few days, but it is hard to be boss like as this is the biggest (in terms of size and expense) thing I've ever done. Our contractor has performed really well so far and has been very flexible by figuring out a way to incorporate almost every crazy idea we have had. So I feel we are in good hands. I think I will need to be a lot more hands on myself when we get to the finishing details.

Draftvader, our team has been working very hard and I like our contractor too, but am even more curious as to how it will pan out finally. I have heard so many horror stories.

Actually, the construction started at the beginning of April. I am just going to take a few days to catch people up here on Thai Visa and also learn about how the forum works.

Here is me trying to put a couple of photos in a post:

The first is a drawing overview of the land, part of an earlier floor plan, and the second is a photo of the the land from street level when we bought it last year. There was already a little one room building that had a tiny bathroom with water and electricity.

-EE

Edited May 25, 2012 by newhomepages

[beachyman]

Looks.great. I've done some full renovations on my rental houses and you def. Need to be around at all time or the tiles will be sideways.

Good luck I look forward to seeing the pictures and progress.

Sent from my GT-P6200L using Thaivisa Connect App

[draftvader]

Agreed with those above. It can be very useful to make sure you are around when they are going to start a new section of the project. Once people are underway with a new section and you are confident you can relax a bit until the next section. I have often found that workers will attempt to do a job rather than stopping, looking and discussing. The problems is that, often, they get too far in before you realise that they have put the front door in the roof...or similar.

My present worker has had the foresight to wait until he can talk to me before attempting anything "outside the box". He has obviously worked out that it is better in the long run because he won't get into trouble and can tell me that it was my stupid idea

Nice plans. Also inspect every material delivery thoroughly, even if the delivery man looks annoyed. It is easier to deal with the problem at that point as once they have dumped, they will run and getting them back is difficult and will delay your project whilst you wait. Swapping of materials does happen here, like it does in the West. However here it tends to happen without any communication with the client.

[Crossy]

Should be fun, we need more construction threads

Have you had construction drawings done or are you relying on your contractor?

Don't forget to get your building permit before doing anything (you'll need at least outline construction drawings for that depending upon the local Amphur's requirements).

Is there an attic space below that flat roof? How do you intend insulating it?

[rgs2001uk]

A couple of observations.

For Bkk that looks like a fair old sized chunk of land, at least 100tw?

Does the house price include the cost of pilings?

Will you be constructing a fence round the land?

What height above street level will the house be?

You say flat roof, will the roof be sloped?

If so what drainage plans do you have in place?

Reason for asking I have seen these houses with a sloped flat roof, they all suffer from the same problem,

wait for the first rainy season and its like having a 10 metre wide waterfall at the back of the house, owners had to build

trenches to allow the water to drain.

[newhomepages]

Thanks everyone for all the great questions.

rgs2001uk, yes, the price includes the cost of piles. I believe there are ten of them (although someone said 11) going down 18 meters each.

Yes, we will construct a fence around the land. We still aren't sure if it will be a solid or be made of wire and bushes. It is an extra expense and there is quite a distance to cover. The total land area is a little over 200 square wa but there is already some type of fence on two lines. So initially we might just fence the one, long curved front area.

The first floor is 1.2 meters above the dirt ground which probably makes it nearly 1.5 meters above the street.

Before anyone asks, the small street leading to our development did flood about half a meter for about 2 kilometers to where it meets a main road, which was not flooded. But our development is a little higher than the small street outside so the streets inside the development were only flooded in spots less than half a meter. Because of worries of worse flooding in the future, we made the foundation as high as we could afford.

The roof has only a tiny slope to the back. Stairs on the outside will lead to the roof which is all a big usable deck. This way we are able to recover almost the total outdoor space taken by the footprint of the house. There should be a really nice view up there and we will probably end up eating our dinners in a sala on the roof, as we don't have space for a dining room inside the house. Also, I want to collect rain water and have solar heated water for the shower, and maybe later have wind and solar electric collection in the future. The roof will be my personal playground. I've heard that people have lots of problems with roof decks. I know it will sag and leak, but every shingled roof I have ever lived under has leaked too at some point. I imagine there are ways to mitigate the problems, so I would really like to hear other people's experiences with flat roofs here, please.

Actually, when it rains I am planning on enjoying a beautiful waterfall off the back of the house splashing into a concrete pond or diverted into large old style water tanks or around a little mote to another pond in front of the house. Any overflow would go straight to the public drainage system. In addition to the wide waterfall drain at the back, the architect put overflow drain tubes along all sides of the roof. Please let me know any problems you see with my strange plan.

Crossy, we gave our contractor floor plans that I made in a 3D modeling program called Sketchup - you can see a video walkthrough make from it by adding this line to the youtube homepage address: watch?v=d2AZeRnok7c From that our contractor worked with his own architect to produce the final drawings which were submitted to the local government office for approval. There were just a few back and forth changes made at each stage before everyone was happy and we got a final approval to build. Before I started using Sketchup I drew some very different ideas on paper before realizing the structure needed to be very simple and cheap. Then I made one paper napkin sketch that I liked, made a Lego house out of that, smashed it, rebuilt, smashed, then rebuilt again with a structure like the most basic Thai style concrete and brick building I ever saw here. At first we worked with an established and well known home builder who wanted to do a rough floor plan and price bid for us at no cost. I made a simple floor plan drawing on paper for them first based on the Lego house and they made that into some slightly changed and more detailed, professional looking rough plans. We weren't excited with their changes or price so we got some more bids and finally found our current contractor and used something closer to the Lego home design which later evolved into the first Sketchup floor plan. To that some slight additions and changes were made by the current contractor's architect.

The ceiling of the 2nd floor and the roof is the same piece of material. It is uninsulated with mostly exposed beams. I know that this will get hot, and the house is designed for maximum air flow (tropical style) so there are just two small rooms that have AC. My idea to cool things down is to have the roof water cooled. Meaning there will be a constant flow of water over the roof all day. This will really test how well it is sealed! Can't the roof be coated in something that turns into a solid piece of impermeable plastic, like a pool? Help, anyone?

I really need all the advice and feedback I can get. I will try not to get offended.

draftvader and beachyman, at this stage they are just making the concrete skeleton which I know nothing about, but I am having fun learning. I can't really tell people what to do because I don't know myself. If I do see something that looks weird or wrong I ask about it and try to understand what's happening. When I get some more photos up here I would appreciate if anybody with experience can give some critiques of what they see regarding the building structure.

I think once the structure is finished I will be able to oversee the exterior and interior details with a more helpful eye. I will definitely go nuts if they try to put in the wrong of door or if things go sideways.

Here is another picture or two in the building chronology - trying to get caught up to the present day.

A primitive space launch or pile driver?

-EE

Edited May 27, 2012 by newhomepages

[oldenuf2knobette]

Interesting design, I wish you good luck with the construction. Dealing with Thai construction contrators can be frustrating, you will need to watch them closely to make sure build quality is maintained.

I like the idea of the roof deck, but as others mentioned you will need to be careful if using a poured concrete slab for the roof /deck surface. The surface, and connections to the walls, need to be perfect to not get any leaks. If any leaks or cracking in the slab it would be very difficult or impossible to repair properly. Also the concrete slab will be a huge heat sink, will get very hot and will make the upper floor uncomfortably hot and require additional a/c. Some provision to insulate the upper floor ceiling will be beneficial.

A couple ideas:

- use a separate wooden deck above the concrete slab. The wood will shade the concrete slab from solar radiation and will help keep the house cool. The wood is also more comfortable for walking than hot concrete.

- if using a wood deck, can increase the slope on the concrete roof/slab. More slope will have less potential for leaking. Or better yet, change to a conventional tiled roof or some other material, much lighter weight and cheaper than concrete slab, also can be repaired if necessary.

Can PM me if want more information for wooden deck material.

Cheers

[uty6543]

You could put ceramic tiles on the roof. That should prevent any water leaks but wont address the heat issue.

[cowtread]

uty6543, I thought about that because we have white tiles on our small townhouse deck now. I think white is best for reflecting heat. I am just worried that if there is a leak, the tiles will make it harder to tell where it is coming from and then we would have to tear them all up. I am thinking some thick rubbery waterproof paint over concrete.

oldenuf2knobette, the problem is at this stage I don't know how a quality concrete frame should look. Some of the edges are rough which may be normal. I do point it out to the contractor and he says that it will be plastered over. There have been a couple obvious mistakes that he pointed out to me. Like the window bay should be the same width on the first and second floor, but it was more narrow on first floor. He says it will be cut wider to match but it seems like a big job to cut a chunk out of the solid horizontal beam!? When the walls start going up I will be keeping a close eye and probably doing some of it myself.

I am not sure if they will pour the whole roof or use the prefabricated floor beams like on the second floor. Parts of the floors are poured too. Please describe in detain of what a strong quality flat roof should consist of so I can compare that to what the contractor is planning.

If the surface of the roof is coated in a continuous, flexible, waterproof material, then how can water still come down on our heads? Maybe through the sides, around the drain spouts? I expect it to leak some, but I want to be able to seal it and not have constant frustration with trying to find where it needs to be patched or whatever.

What does anyone think about my idea to water cool the roof surface? Whenever the sun is hitting it, solar panels will generate electricity to pump water over it. Someday, a full canopy of solar panels will shade the roof, making the deck more comfortable and the roof cooler, generating electricity and funneling rain away before it hits the concrete slab. Someday.

Is it true that no one can see the pictures in my post if they are not logged in? I don't understand why that is.

More pictures below.

[newhomepages]

Sorry, I never got time to make updates on the progress as I intended.

The project has been going well and has now entered the inevitable over-budget-and-behind-schedule phase. I guess this means we are almost done?

You can see galleries of the construction from the start up to where it is now here:

http://newhomepages.com/chronology/

And "Like" our Facebook page to get updates as we near the finish line:

http://www.facebook.com/thewavehome

Thanks!

Edited December 19, 2012 by newhomepages

[newhomepages]

From a piling to a complete structure in just a couple of posts. Wow!

Looking at a February 2013 move-in.

[draftvader]

Sorry, I never got time to make updates on the progress as I intended.

The project has been going well and has now entered the inevitable over-budget-and-behind-schedule phase. I guess this means we are almost done?

You can see galleries of the construction from the start up to where it is now here:

http://newhomepages.com/chronology/

And "Like" our Facebook page to get updates as we near the finish line:

http://www.facebook.com/thewavehome

Thanks!

Thanks for coming back and keeping us up to date. Good luck with the inevitable over budget behind time-scales. Nothing unusual, even in the West. Just keep on them or they might just disappear like the "mythical" Paddy Builders (now Polish) in England.

[Crossy]

Just keep on them or they might just disappear like the "mythical" Paddy Builders (now Polish) in England.

[Khun Jean]

That stair curtain looks like a good candidate for a solar water heater.

Pumping oil through that, to prevent rust and then into a heat exchanger for hot water.

Are they hollow steel pipes painted black as it looks like on the pictures?

It would not need that much of a modification, just connect all of them at the bottom and top.

[newhomepages]

That stair curtain looks like a good candidate for a solar water heater.

Pumping oil through that, to prevent rust and then into a heat exchanger for hot water.

Are they hollow steel pipes painted black as it looks like on the pictures?

It would not need that much of a modification, just connect all of them at the bottom and top.

Khun Jean,

That is brilliant! I was actually thinking of running copper pipe around it and circulating the water through the copper pipe to pick up the heat. Yes, they are hollow steel pipes and I guess filled with oil would retain more heat for longer? just worried that they are not not completely sealed at the bottom. Maybe later I could replace some of them with same sized, carefully made stainless steel tubes which could actually be used as long hot water tanks. Happy to hear your thoughts on it. I don't want to buy one of those expensive vacuum tube solar hot water heaters.

Thanks.

[bankruatsteve]

That stair curtain looks like a good candidate for a solar water heater.

Pumping oil through that, to prevent rust and then into a heat exchanger for hot water.

Are they hollow steel pipes painted black as it looks like on the pictures?

It would not need that much of a modification, just connect all of them at the bottom and top.

Khun Jean,

That is brilliant! I was actually thinking of running copper pipe around it and circulating the water through the copper pipe to pick up the heat. Yes, they are hollow steel pipes and I guess filled with oil would retain more heat for longer? just worried that they are not not completely sealed at the bottom. Maybe later I could replace some of them with same sized, carefully made stainless steel tubes which could actually be used as long hot water tanks. Happy to hear your thoughts on it. I don't want to buy one of those expensive vacuum tube solar hot water heaters.

Thanks.

Good idea? I doubt it. Esp. the oil option.

[Khun Jean]

You don't want water in those pipes, it has not the right properties and you certainly don't want to use water that has been through all those pipes, you would risk contamination of your system (salmonella).

Oil is a much better fluid and it retains a lot more heat.

You can use the natural upward flow of hot oil and place a insulated container on the highest point to collect the hottest oil.

No pumps are needed, the system is a closed one.

Then you use a copper coil submerged into the oil and let water to be heated flow through it.

This part can be tricky as the oil can be quit hot and can cause the water to boil, so you need a valve to release pressure.

Fancy expensive solar heating systems work the same, of course they have all the parts tuned to each other but nothing is stopping a DIY from using the same principles and experiment. You could start with using only a few of those steel tubes, maybe it is already enough.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Khun Jean

[newhomepages]

You can use the natural upward flow of hot oil and place a insulated container on the highest point to collect the hottest oil.

No pumps are needed, the system is a closed one.

Without a pump for the oil would it circulate fast enough through the heat exchanger to do the job? For example: As the oil transfered its heat to the water, would it then fall to the bottom of the tube and more hot oil would rise and circulate to the exchanger? It's an interesting idea.

[Khun Jean]

Yes it does. The oil is in something like a bath, the water runs through a coil. If the coil can hold about 5 liter of water the oil should be at least 200 liter. You adjust the water flow to get the temperature you want.

This is a bit of experimenting so you would need to be able to adjust the amount of oil and water flow rate until it matches your requirement. The material cost are not high so experimenting is not too expensive. Start small by using only a small part of this 'curtain', maybe only the top part of a few of those pipes and scale it up until it is sufficient..

If the oil flow is not efficient enough a small pump could be added or a bigger/more pipe to get more flow.

One other thought is that this 'curtain' might have the opposite effect of what its purpose is, as it is black and of steel it will get hot very quick and act as a radiator. Walking those stairs could be very uncomfortable. Those black steel pipes could get very very hot.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Khun Jean

[RAZZELL]

Just found this great thread.

Any more updates? (looked at Facebook etc)

Lovely plot of land/view where is it?

RAZZ

Edited August 19, 2013 by RAZZELL

[newhomepages]

Thanks, it is in the north east corner of bangkok where there is still a little green left. Also, being on a golf course helps.

[David48]

Great thread ... thanks!

[sfokevin]

So when you say over budget - How far over $2.6 million do you think you will go?

[RAZZELL]

I think on his FB he said he was around 3m baht.

RAZZ

[thaicbr]

I think on his FB he said he was around 3m baht.

RAZZ

3 million over BUDGET !!! So much for a small house

[thaibeachlovers]

I didn't notice anything about the house electrics. I hope you have incorporated ducting into the concrete, or you will be smashing holes after it is built.

I have just been doing that on a house built without any thought about wiring.

I also hope you have a decent "electrician". The ones I have had dealings with were so bad, I have had to do everything they did over again myself.

[RAZZELL]

I think on his FB he said he was around 3m baht.

RAZZ

3 million over BUDGET !!! So much for a small house

3m in total

RAZZ