Thai Law Voiding Verdicts To Be Tabled

[comeondoit]

Sonthi's proposal are:

"1. Any unlawful activity related to political gatherings between Set. 15 2005 to May 10, 2011 will be legalized. Both anti government protesters and government officers involved in such incidents will be pardoned.

2. Ongoing investigations of these activities will be dropped. Prosecutors will withdraw charges, and the Courts will dismiss ongoing trials. Convicts whose cases have been finalized, will be granted amnesty.

3. All individuals affected by legal proceedings initiated by the Council for National Security - the 2006 coup makes - or the agencies installed after the coup will be treated like they have never been accused and convicted.

4. Political bans of all political party executives following party dissolution verdicts will be annulled."

Sonthi sure has experience in whitewashing his own crimes, so conveniently the legalisation of his own coup will survive even if and when the present constitution would be amended in this point.

Point 3 looks tailor made for Thaksin.

Sonthi said widespread corruption, interference into independent organisations, possible violent clashes between rivalling political groups and disrespect to the monarchy as major reasons for staging the coup. So why is he now whitewashing corruption and heavily interfering into the judicial system?

This guy is a shame for anybody who has even a single grain of democracy in his body. It shows that military are inherently and totally undemocratic and should never be allowed into a parliament.

Thailand will be the joke of the world if these propositions will be realized. What a shame!

it is ridiculous and shows again, there are two different laws..the one for the rich people who can finally do anything and get away with it and the poor ones who have no chance to sneak out.

thaksim is a very egoistical person...if he really would have wanted to help his people he should have come back and go to jail (which would have been a very comfortable jail for him, as i heard there are better correctional centers around) and then he could have been released 3 to 6 months later....and everybody would have kept the face and be happy. justice would have been able to keep its face as well and may be the country could move one real step forward to reconciliation

[Time Traveller]

I wish the reds would see him for what he is. Used their deaths for his own self serving purposes and craps in their faces with the PM not even showing to give compensation. All about one man. So sad for the truly poor in Thailand.

You are assuming they do not? Are you really so condescending toward the “poor”?

Ask yourself why do the Red shirts support Taksin? Why do the Red shirts not support Democrats?

Why was Taksin (who himself is an elite) kicked out of the circle of Elites club by the military?

If Red shirts don’t support Taksin, then who will the Redshirts support? Who will push their cause and stand up against the elites? If no one, then they are back to supporting Taksin and his political group.

[phiphidon]

These crimes aren't either (depending upon emergency decree amnesty legality)

I cannot give a source this time - since this source was last posted on this forum extra wording has been added to the accompanying text which makes it unwise to link to.

1. Major General Khattiya Sawasdiphol, 58, was shot in the head, assassinated, while he was giving an interview with journalists and surrounded by Red Shirts on 13 May

2. Mr. Chatchai Chalao, 25, he died from wounds to his neck from the crackdown at Lumpini Park on 13 May

The people that died at the Lumpini Park

(it is most likely that when hospitals records the person as being ‘wounded’ it means that these are ‘bullet’ wounds)

1. Mr. Piyapong Kitiphan, 32, was shot dead

2. Mr. Prajuab Silaphan, was shot

3. Mr. Somsak Kilirakka, 28, was shot

4. Mr. Inplang Thetwong, 32, died in the crackdown

5. Mr. Saneh Nilluang, 48, died in the crackdown

6. Mr. Chaiyan Wannajak, 20, died in the crackdown

7. Mr. Boonthing Pansila, a medic from Wachira Hospital, 25, was shot in the neck

8. Mr. Phan Kamklong, 43, was shot in the left chest, died at the Moh Lheng area

9. Mr. Kitiphan Khantong, 26, wounded in the ribs, died in the hospital

10. Mr. Surakrai Srimuangpun, 34, wounded in the head, died in the hospital

11. Unknown man, was shot and died at Ratchaparop area

12. Unknown boy, 14, was shot in the stomach and arm; he died at Soi Moh Lheng

13. Mr. Channarong Ploysrila, 32, died from wounds to the head

14. Mr. Thippanet Jiamphol, 36, wounded in the head

15. Mr. Supacheep Jullathas, 36, wounded in the head

16. Mr. Warin Wongsanit, 28, wounded in the right chest

17. Mr. Mana Sanprasertsri, Po Tek Tung Emergency Assistance Foundation, 22, was shot in the head

18. Ms. Santana Sappasri, 34, was shot in the stomach and arm at Moh Lheng area

19. Mr. Thanwa Wongsiri, 26, wounded in the head

20. Mr. Amphol Chuensri, 25, died on the spot

21. Mr. Samaphan Srithep, 17, died on the spot

22. Mr. Uthai Orn-in, 35, died on the spot

23. Mr. Pornsawan Nakachai, 23, shot in many places, died in the hospital

24. Mr. Kriangkrai Leantaisong, 25, was shot in the head, died in the hospital

25. Mr. Prachuab Prachuabsuk, 42, he died at the Charoenkrung Pracharak

26. Mr. Kiettikhun Chatwirasakul, 25, was shot in the left chest, died on the spot

27. Mr. Wongsakorn Plangsri, 40, was shot in the chest, bleeding in the chest. He died in the hospital

28. Mr. Somchai Phrasuwan, 43, was shot in the head, died in the hospital

29. Mr. Suphan Thomtong, 49, died on the spot

30. Mr. Chaleaw deeruenram, 27, was shot below the right chest

31. Mr. Supot Yatima, 37, died on the spot

32. Mr. Tanakorn Piyapholdirek, 50, died on the spot

33. Sergeant Pongchalit Thippanontakarn, 31, was shot in the head

34. Mr. Sompan Luangchom, 35, was shot in the stomach

35. Mr. Muhammad Akli, 40, wounded from the chest through the back

36. Mr. Polenchi Fadio, an Italian photographer, 48, was shot in the chest

37. Mr. Thanachot Chumyen, 34, the bullet cut through his kidney and the main artery

38. Unknown woman, shot dead

39. Mr. Thawin Kammool, 38, wounded in the head

40. Unknown man, wounded in the head

41. Sergeant Anusit Chansanto, 44, died on the spot

42. Mr. Pratchaya Sae-Khoe, 21, was shot, the bullet destroyed his liver

43. Mr. Akradet Khankaew, 22, was shot, the bullet destroyed his lung and heart

44. Mr. Mongkol Khemthong, 37, was shot damaging his lung and heart

45. Ms. Kamonket Hakhard, 25, bullet in her head (she was shot with six bullets)

46. Mr. Wichai Manpare, 61, bullet cut through his lung and liver

47. Mr. Attachai Chumchan, 28, wounded from bullet that destroyed his lung

48. Unknown man, bleeding in the brain from being beaten

49. Mr. Narin Srichomphu, wounded from a bullet that destroyed his brain

50. Ms. Wasinee Theppan, died on the way to hospital

51. Mr. Yuon Phothongkam, 60, wounded in his bottom, died on 21 May

52. Mr. Kittipong Somsuk, 20, burnt in the Central World blaze, body found on 21 May

53. Mr. Songsak Srinongbua, 33, wounded in the chest

54. Mr. Ploen Wongma, 40, died in the hospital on 20 May

55. Mr. Samai Tadkaew, 36, died from many attacks

56. A Bonkai community man, 71, died on 28 July from a blood infection after getting treatment from being shot in the stomach while he walked through the zone to pick up his granddaughter

57. Couldn’t identify the person’s name

58. Couldn’t identify the person’s name

Many of those deaths may not be crimes, and not need amnesty. In most cases, there has been no responsibility decided, at least by the authorities. I repeat part of a post from another thread:

"It should be asked what is the function of small groups of armed blackshirts. IMHO opinion they were there to "keep the pot boiling". It would be a simple job to shadow a group of RTA either patrolling or static, and pop off a couple of shots as a group of red shirts came close. In an urban environment with lots of hard reflecting surfaces it is difficult to tell the source of the shots, so the soldiers would engage the reds. Up to you whether you believe the RTA might even get little assistance if their accuracy was lacking."

it is interesting that you choose a list which seems to excluded members of the security forces. Under the proposed legislation, their murder will become "legitimate political expression".

You're right, I was misled by the May 10th 2010 cut off date you posted. The list should of course include 5 other soldiers and 21 civilians killed on the 10th April

[Time Traveller]

Seems to me like they are setting a precedent. Rob steal murder and then pass a law to make it all OK

1973, 1976, 1992, 2010 .....yes murder is legal when the killer is in uniform. For everyone else your life has no value.

[OzMick]

These crimes aren't either (depending upon emergency decree amnesty legality)

I cannot give a source this time - since this source was last posted on this forum extra wording has been added to the accompanying text which makes it unwise to link to.

1. Major General Khattiya Sawasdiphol, 58, was shot in the head, assassinated, while he was giving an interview with journalists and surrounded by Red Shirts on 13 May

2. Mr. Chatchai Chalao, 25, he died from wounds to his neck from the crackdown at Lumpini Park on 13 May

The people that died at the Lumpini Park

(it is most likely that when hospitals records the person as being ‘wounded’ it means that these are ‘bullet’ wounds)

1. Mr. Piyapong Kitiphan, 32, was shot dead

2. Mr. Prajuab Silaphan, was shot

3. Mr. Somsak Kilirakka, 28, was shot

4. Mr. Inplang Thetwong, 32, died in the crackdown

5. Mr. Saneh Nilluang, 48, died in the crackdown

6. Mr. Chaiyan Wannajak, 20, died in the crackdown

7. Mr. Boonthing Pansila, a medic from Wachira Hospital, 25, was shot in the neck

8. Mr. Phan Kamklong, 43, was shot in the left chest, died at the Moh Lheng area

9. Mr. Kitiphan Khantong, 26, wounded in the ribs, died in the hospital

10. Mr. Surakrai Srimuangpun, 34, wounded in the head, died in the hospital

11. Unknown man, was shot and died at Ratchaparop area

12. Unknown boy, 14, was shot in the stomach and arm; he died at Soi Moh Lheng

13. Mr. Channarong Ploysrila, 32, died from wounds to the head

14. Mr. Thippanet Jiamphol, 36, wounded in the head

15. Mr. Supacheep Jullathas, 36, wounded in the head

16. Mr. Warin Wongsanit, 28, wounded in the right chest

17. Mr. Mana Sanprasertsri, Po Tek Tung Emergency Assistance Foundation, 22, was shot in the head

18. Ms. Santana Sappasri, 34, was shot in the stomach and arm at Moh Lheng area

19. Mr. Thanwa Wongsiri, 26, wounded in the head

20. Mr. Amphol Chuensri, 25, died on the spot

21. Mr. Samaphan Srithep, 17, died on the spot

22. Mr. Uthai Orn-in, 35, died on the spot

23. Mr. Pornsawan Nakachai, 23, shot in many places, died in the hospital

24. Mr. Kriangkrai Leantaisong, 25, was shot in the head, died in the hospital

25. Mr. Prachuab Prachuabsuk, 42, he died at the Charoenkrung Pracharak

26. Mr. Kiettikhun Chatwirasakul, 25, was shot in the left chest, died on the spot

27. Mr. Wongsakorn Plangsri, 40, was shot in the chest, bleeding in the chest. He died in the hospital

28. Mr. Somchai Phrasuwan, 43, was shot in the head, died in the hospital

29. Mr. Suphan Thomtong, 49, died on the spot

30. Mr. Chaleaw deeruenram, 27, was shot below the right chest

31. Mr. Supot Yatima, 37, died on the spot

32. Mr. Tanakorn Piyapholdirek, 50, died on the spot

33. Sergeant Pongchalit Thippanontakarn, 31, was shot in the head

34. Mr. Sompan Luangchom, 35, was shot in the stomach

35. Mr. Muhammad Akli, 40, wounded from the chest through the back

36. Mr. Polenchi Fadio, an Italian photographer, 48, was shot in the chest

37. Mr. Thanachot Chumyen, 34, the bullet cut through his kidney and the main artery

38. Unknown woman, shot dead

39. Mr. Thawin Kammool, 38, wounded in the head

40. Unknown man, wounded in the head

41. Sergeant Anusit Chansanto, 44, died on the spot

42. Mr. Pratchaya Sae-Khoe, 21, was shot, the bullet destroyed his liver

43. Mr. Akradet Khankaew, 22, was shot, the bullet destroyed his lung and heart

44. Mr. Mongkol Khemthong, 37, was shot damaging his lung and heart

45. Ms. Kamonket Hakhard, 25, bullet in her head (she was shot with six bullets)

46. Mr. Wichai Manpare, 61, bullet cut through his lung and liver

47. Mr. Attachai Chumchan, 28, wounded from bullet that destroyed his lung

48. Unknown man, bleeding in the brain from being beaten

49. Mr. Narin Srichomphu, wounded from a bullet that destroyed his brain

50. Ms. Wasinee Theppan, died on the way to hospital

51. Mr. Yuon Phothongkam, 60, wounded in his bottom, died on 21 May

52. Mr. Kittipong Somsuk, 20, burnt in the Central World blaze, body found on 21 May

53. Mr. Songsak Srinongbua, 33, wounded in the chest

54. Mr. Ploen Wongma, 40, died in the hospital on 20 May

55. Mr. Samai Tadkaew, 36, died from many attacks

56. A Bonkai community man, 71, died on 28 July from a blood infection after getting treatment from being shot in the stomach while he walked through the zone to pick up his granddaughter

57. Couldn’t identify the person’s name

58. Couldn’t identify the person’s name

Many of those deaths may not be crimes, and not need amnesty. In most cases, there has been no responsibility decided, at least by the authorities. I repeat part of a post from another thread:

"It should be asked what is the function of small groups of armed blackshirts. IMHO opinion they were there to "keep the pot boiling". It would be a simple job to shadow a group of RTA either patrolling or static, and pop off a couple of shots as a group of red shirts came close. In an urban environment with lots of hard reflecting surfaces it is difficult to tell the source of the shots, so the soldiers would engage the reds. Up to you whether you believe the RTA might even get little assistance if their accuracy was lacking."

it is interesting that you choose a list which seems to excluded members of the security forces. Under the proposed legislation, their murder will become "legitimate political expression".

You're right, I was misled by the May 10th 2010 cut off date you posted. The list should of course include 5 other soldiers and 21 civilians killed on the 10th April

At least you are consistent - when the questions get too hard ignore them.

[FOODLOVER]

I wish the reds would see him for what he is. Used their deaths for his own self serving purposes and craps in their faces with the PM not even showing to give compensation. All about one man. So sad for the truly poor in Thailand.

You are assuming they do not? Are you really so condescending toward the “poor”?

Ask yourself why do the Red shirts support Taksin? Why do the Red shirts not support Democrats?

Why was Taksin (who himself is an elite) kicked out of the circle of Elites club by the military?

If Red shirts don’t support Taksin, then who will the Redshirts support? Who will push their cause and stand up against the elites? If no one, then they are back to supporting Taksin and his political group.

I am assuming they have just figured it out but are clinging to a paycheck. Many of these poor put their hopes and dreams into this sham that is the Yingluck administration. It is not condescension but sadness for these folks that had such high hopes and have been only lied to. They are not the most educated of the population and were easily manipulated by the promises of gold. It cost some lives and now they are cut loose for this Administrations total goal to bring the wanted fugitive back in all his glory. Abhithist administration with its stupidity in some easements for the military that truly boggled the mind, was working slowly, very slowly at times to bring about change for the rural poor that would have been positive. As for who is next in the red roster, perhaps limit it to people who have never been charged with felonies, the rest is up to them. Integrity would help but is extremely lacking in the gang of red.

[waza]

words escape me. I guess Savage and the other farrang red shirts can come back soon.

[Buchholz]

Seems to me like they are setting a precedent. Rob steal murder and then pass a law to make it all OK

1973, 1976, 1992, 2010 .....yes murder is legal when the killer is in uniform. For everyone else your life has no value.

add the police in uniform for 2003 and 2004 and 2008

or actually any year...

Edited May 26, 2012 by Buchholz

[Skywalker69]

Seems to me like they are setting a precedent. Rob steal murder and then pass a law to make it all OK

1973, 1976, 1992, 2010 .....yes murder is legal when the killer is in uniform. For everyone else your life has no value.

add the police in uniform for 2003 and 2004 and 2008

or actually any year...

Also add +2500 peoples in Thaksins war on drugs.

[animatic]

For all the screaming about double standards, this law enshrines them once again.

He who has the most, money power or makes the biggest threat to stability,

gets to do as he sees fit without repercussions.

And yes, till the next Coup.

The way this is being jiggered,

it almost makes it imposible not to have another one...

Couldn't they have done real reconciliation for EVERYONE,

but not for just the biggest trouble makers?

Edited May 26, 2012 by animatic

[philw]

Seems to me like they are setting a precedent. Rob steal murder and then pass a law to make it all OK

1973, 1976, 1992, 2010 .....yes murder is legal when the killer is in uniform. For everyone else your life has no value.

add the police in uniform for 2003 and 2004 and 2008

or actually any year...

Also add +2500 peoples in Thaksins war on drugs.

Think you need to research this a little deeper.............

[BrianCR]

"Certainly there will be some people who are not satisfied, but we have to let our country move ahead," he said

If they want to let the Country move forward then jail the ba****ds who are responsible for the crimes against this country!

White Wash!!

If they follow your advice every Government and government adviser over the last 50 years will be jailed!!

[phiphidon]

Many of those deaths may not be crimes, and not need amnesty. In most cases, there has been no responsibility decided, at least by the authorities. I repeat part of a post from another thread:

"It should be asked what is the function of small groups of armed blackshirts. IMHO opinion they were there to "keep the pot boiling". It would be a simple job to shadow a group of RTA either patrolling or static, and pop off a couple of shots as a group of red shirts came close. In an urban environment with lots of hard reflecting surfaces it is difficult to tell the source of the shots, so the soldiers would engage the reds. Up to you whether you believe the RTA might even get little assistance if their accuracy was lacking."

it is interesting that you choose a list which seems to excluded members of the security forces. Under the proposed legislation, their murder will become "legitimate political expression".

You're right, I was misled by the May 10th 2010 cut off date you posted. The list should of course include 5 other soldiers and 21 civilians killed on the 10th April

At least you are consistent - when the questions get too hard ignore them.

What was the question? You were just regurgitating a post I'd already disregarded as fantasy in another thread. There is no question there.

[bigbamboo]

It is difficult to see how any judicial system which has laws retrospectively changed years later to exonerate selected individuals cannot be considered to be compromised..... even in a 'miracle year'.

Edited May 26, 2012 by bigbamboo

[kerryk]

It is difficult to see how any judicial system which has laws retrospectively changed years later to exonerate selected individuals cannot be considered to be compromised..... even in a 'miracle year'.

I guess you are correct but when were coups made legal?

[hellodolly]

Seems to me like they are setting a precedent. Rob steal murder and then pass a law to make it all OK

1973, 1976, 1992, 2010 .....yes murder is legal when the killer is in uniform. For everyone else your life has no value.

add the police in uniform for 2003 and 2004 and 2008

or actually any year...

Also add +2500 peoples in Thaksins war on drugs.

You people have all missed my point it means any one in any way connected to Politics. That covers the liar in Dubai who says he has quit politics. It was a sarcastic remark but as you can see that is exactly what they are trying to do and as a result set a precedent for future egomaniacs and their grubby grafting followers.

Once you have opened the box it is not that easy to shut and the results can go a lot further than the original intention.

If you don't believe me ask Pandora, She opened a box and never in thousands of years could shut it.

[bigbamboo]

It is difficult to see how any judicial system which has laws retrospectively changed years later to exonerate selected individuals cannot be considered to be compromised..... even in a 'miracle year'.

I guess you are correct but when were coups made legal?

When the new government was sworn in and received the seal of approval from the Head of State.

[kerryk]

It is difficult to see how any judicial system which has laws retrospectively changed years later to exonerate selected individuals cannot be considered to be compromised..... even in a 'miracle year'.

I guess you are correct but when were coups made legal?

When the new government was sworn in and received the seal of approval from the Head of State.

That is simply not true. In other words you are not telling the truth. Coups are not legal in Thailand.

Edited May 26, 2012 by kerryk

[hellodolly]

I wish the reds would see him for what he is. Used their deaths for his own self serving purposes and craps in their faces with the PM not even showing to give compensation. All about one man. So sad for the truly poor in Thailand.

You are assuming they do not? Are you really so condescending toward the “poor”?

Ask yourself why do the Red shirts support Taksin? Why do the Red shirts not support Democrats?

Why was Taksin (who himself is an elite) kicked out of the circle of Elites club by the military?

If Red shirts don’t support Taksin, then who will the Redshirts support? Who will push their cause and stand up against the elites? If no one, then they are back to supporting Taksin and his political group.

The problem with your whole post is that you assumed Thaksin was on there side. The reason they supported him was because he promised them they would all be rich in 6 months he was going to improve there schools and any thing else they wanted right away.

While the democrats made no such promises they set things in motion to bring about those desires (other than the be rich in 6 months) but they would take a lot of time not just happen today as Thaksin led them to believe. Also you forget that 40 of their supporters were Thaksin trained and not that up on social justice. This was a big problem the Dem's had to work with.

As I see it the red shirts who blindly followed Thaksin fell into two camps the big one being the uneducated one's and the other one's receiving cash for there part in it.

As it stands now yes who are they going to follow Thaksin has been back in power now for about 10 months and all they have seen is prices going up. Give Abhist the kind of support that they gave Thaksin and they will begin to see results they will be able to see them not rely on talk.

Yes indeed who are they to follow they won't believe in Abhist because of the indoctrination that Thaksin's hired mouth pieces and goons fed them and they are slowly seeing that in 10 months they are still no better off.

[bigbamboo]

It is difficult to see how any judicial system which has laws retrospectively changed years later to exonerate selected individuals cannot be considered to be compromised..... even in a 'miracle year'.

I guess you are correct but when were coups made legal?

When the new government was sworn in and received the seal of approval from the Head of State.

That is simply not true. In other words you are lying. Coups are not legal in Thailand.

Not lying, simply stating it how it is here. This is not a republic and the courts are approved by a higher authority than politicians who are technically only glorified civil servants in Thailand.

Edited May 26, 2012 by bigbamboo

[Time Traveller]

I wish the reds would see him for what he is. Used their deaths for his own self serving purposes and craps in their faces with the PM not even showing to give compensation. All about one man. So sad for the truly poor in Thailand.

You are assuming they do not? Are you really so condescending toward the “poor”?

Ask yourself why do the Red shirts support Taksin? Why do the Red shirts not support Democrats?

Why was Taksin (who himself is an elite) kicked out of the circle of Elites club by the military?

If Red shirts don’t support Taksin, then who will the Redshirts support? Who will push their cause and stand up against the elites? If no one, then they are back to supporting Taksin and his political group.

The problem with your whole post is that you assumed Thaksin was on there side. The reason they supported him was because he promised them they would all be rich in 6 months he was going to improve there schools and any thing else they wanted right away.

While the democrats made no such promises they set things in motion to bring about those desires (other than the be rich in 6 months) but they would take a lot of time not just happen today as Thaksin led them to believe. Also you forget that 40 of their supporters were Thaksin trained and not that up on social justice. This was a big problem the Dem's had to work with.

As I see it the red shirts who blindly followed Thaksin fell into two camps the big one being the uneducated one's and the other one's receiving cash for there part in it.

As it stands now yes who are they going to follow Thaksin has been back in power now for about 10 months and all they have seen is prices going up. Give Abhist the kind of support that they gave Thaksin and they will begin to see results they will be able to see them not rely on talk.

Yes indeed who are they to follow they won't believe in Abhist because of the indoctrination that Thaksin's hired mouth pieces and goons fed them and they are slowly seeing that in 10 months they are still no better off.

No. In Thailand politics when it's the little people fighting for democracy against military run governments, then the little people will always end up dead, such as in 1973, 76 & 92. But in this case those same people realized that elites themselves were fighting against each other. Thaksin was taking on the establishment for whatever reason he was kicked out. There was a belief that supporting Thaksin, could result in change and they wouldn't be any worse of under Thaksin than the alternative. Remember, the red shirt movement only began after the coup. He was also the person that brought in universal affordable health care). In past 75 years of "democracy" there was nothing. The Redshirts are not stupid and only wanted long needed change from military totalitarianism. They chose Thaksin as there was no real alternative. Thaksin needed them, so it was an easy match.

Your reference to "uneducated" people demonstrates only how you feel superior to others, and is the way the elite maintain an impression that they are some how better than the lower classes. The Democrats have never offered anything to the poor except more of the same. The same "know you place in this (feudal) society" rhetoric.

[hellodolly]

I wish the reds would see him for what he is. Used their deaths for his own self serving purposes and craps in their faces with the PM not even showing to give compensation. All about one man. So sad for the truly poor in Thailand.

You are assuming they do not? Are you really so condescending toward the “poor”?

Ask yourself why do the Red shirts support Taksin? Why do the Red shirts not support Democrats?

Why was Taksin (who himself is an elite) kicked out of the circle of Elites club by the military?

If Red shirts don’t support Taksin, then who will the Redshirts support? Who will push their cause and stand up against the elites? If no one, then they are back to supporting Taksin and his political group.

The problem with your whole post is that you assumed Thaksin was on there side. The reason they supported him was because he promised them they would all be rich in 6 months he was going to improve there schools and any thing else they wanted right away.

While the democrats made no such promises they set things in motion to bring about those desires (other than the be rich in 6 months) but they would take a lot of time not just happen today as Thaksin led them to believe. Also you forget that 40 of their supporters were Thaksin trained and not that up on social justice. This was a big problem the Dem's had to work with.

As I see it the red shirts who blindly followed Thaksin fell into two camps the big one being the uneducated one's and the other one's receiving cash for there part in it.

As it stands now yes who are they going to follow Thaksin has been back in power now for about 10 months and all they have seen is prices going up. Give Abhist the kind of support that they gave Thaksin and they will begin to see results they will be able to see them not rely on talk.

Yes indeed who are they to follow they won't believe in Abhist because of the indoctrination that Thaksin's hired mouth pieces and goons fed them and they are slowly seeing that in 10 months they are still no better off.

No. In Thailand politics when it's the little people fighting for democracy against military run governments, then the little people will always end up dead, such as in 1973, 76 & 92. But in this case those same people realized that elites themselves were fighting against each other. Thaksin was taking on the establishment for whatever reason he was kicked out. There was a belief that supporting Thaksin, could result in change and they wouldn't be any worse of under Thaksin than the alternative. Remember, the red shirt movement only began after the coup. He was also the person that brought in universal affordable health care). In past 75 years of "democracy" there was nothing. The Redshirts are not stupid and only wanted long needed change from military totalitarianism. They chose Thaksin as there was no real alternative. Thaksin needed them, so it was an easy match.

Your reference to "uneducated" people demonstrates only how you feel superior to others, and is the way the elite maintain an impression that they are some how better than the lower classes. The Democrats have never offered anything to the poor except more of the same. The same "know you place in this (feudal) society" rhetoric.

What you say about Thaksin was true 12 years ago. I was talking about today. I notice you skip over the part about the resistance Abhist had to put up within his coalition. Also the terrorism he had to combat. If you think he was wrong just look at how Syria is doing it. He did it in as humane away as the red shirts would let him.

Thaksin In his time he did do some good things but he was in a time of world economics success. And he had the power behind him. If he had used all that power for the betterment of Thailand instead of lining his pockets. He would not have been thrown out. He had very little resistance his undoing is the same that he has now and will not allow him to ever return. EGO actually I think he might fear a bullet is here with his name on it.

What has he done for Thailand lately over 90 dead as a result of his ego. 10 months back in power and the poor red shirts have not one thing to show for it other than the money they got for the Bangkok insurrection and the money they got for voting for him.

Get into 2012 The red shirts have no body to lead them. As I said the Dem's are not a possibility because of the crap they were fed. You criticize me for calling them uneducated what do you think the leaders were calling them when they had to set up a school to teach them what democracy is. Or do you think as I do brainwash them into believing the only true democracy was doing it there way.

Yes the red shirts only happened after the coup but they were all ready in the wings. just waiting for the other two Thaksin led governments to fall on their face. Where they could then try to bring their leader back with illegal means. Or are you saying invasion of hospitals is legal? That is a yes or no question.

Interesting how you equate uneducated with a lower class. As far as I am concerned they just know less than me because I had 12 and a half years of real schooling where if you failed you did not move on to the next grade. It is just a fact not a measurement of class. They were completely happy with the parliamentary system until it didn't work for them. Then all of a sudden they have to have democracy instead. Why did they not change over to democracy when they had the power why wait until they no longer have the power?

Edited May 26, 2012 by hellodolly

[jaapfries]

A guilty person who is wasting this much money, time, and human lives, just to clear his own tarnished name, is an arrogant and unrepentant wastrel. A guilty person who commits these actions at state-level in a poor developing-world nation that is socially and economically fragile at this time, is an uncaring despot.

He could have walked away with his stolen money & lived out his days in the type of luxury that most people can not even dream of, yet he hovers vulture-like over this nation, fermenting divisions, unbalancing people's lives, and uprooting the first green shoots of a fledgling democracy.

Yunla; I believe you've managed to put the entire issue in "a nut-shell" in a very eloquent & brilliant manner !

If there would have been a "Rudyard Kipling Award", I am convinced you would have won it ! !

Admirer

[kimamey]

I wish the reds would see him for what he is. Used their deaths for his own self serving purposes and craps in their faces with the PM not even showing to give compensation. All about one man. So sad for the truly poor in Thailand.

You are assuming they do not? Are you really so condescending toward the “poor”?

Ask yourself why do the Red shirts support Taksin? Why do the Red shirts not support Democrats?

Why was Taksin (who himself is an elite) kicked out of the circle of Elites club by the military?

If Red shirts don’t support Taksin, then who will the Redshirts support? Who will push their cause and stand up against the elites? If no one, then they are back to supporting Taksin and his political group.

The problem with your whole post is that you assumed Thaksin was on there side. The reason they supported him was because he promised them they would all be rich in 6 months he was going to improve there schools and any thing else they wanted right away.

While the democrats made no such promises they set things in motion to bring about those desires (other than the be rich in 6 months) but they would take a lot of time not just happen today as Thaksin led them to believe. Also you forget that 40 of their supporters were Thaksin trained and not that up on social justice. This was a big problem the Dem's had to work with.

As I see it the red shirts who blindly followed Thaksin fell into two camps the big one being the uneducated one's and the other one's receiving cash for there part in it.

As it stands now yes who are they going to follow Thaksin has been back in power now for about 10 months and all they have seen is prices going up. Give Abhist the kind of support that they gave Thaksin and they will begin to see results they will be able to see them not rely on talk.

Yes indeed who are they to follow they won't believe in Abhist because of the indoctrination that Thaksin's hired mouth pieces and goons fed them and they are slowly seeing that in 10 months they are still no better off.

No. In Thailand politics when it's the little people fighting for democracy against military run governments, then the little people will always end up dead, such as in 1973, 76 & 92. But in this case those same people realized that elites themselves were fighting against each other. Thaksin was taking on the establishment for whatever reason he was kicked out. There was a belief that supporting Thaksin, could result in change and they wouldn't be any worse of under Thaksin than the alternative. Remember, the red shirt movement only began after the coup. He was also the person that brought in universal affordable health care). In past 75 years of "democracy" there was nothing. The Redshirts are not stupid and only wanted long needed change from military totalitarianism. They chose Thaksin as there was no real alternative. Thaksin needed them, so it was an easy match.

Your reference to "uneducated" people demonstrates only how you feel superior to others, and is the way the elite maintain an impression that they are some how better than the lower classes. The Democrats have never offered anything to the poor except more of the same. The same "know you place in this (feudal) society" rhetoric.

Saying people are uneducated doesn't mean you think you're superior it just means they're uneducated. It may mean they just can't be bothered but equally it could be they haven't been given the education. I'm educated but not necessarily superior, just lucky.

[OzMick]

Many of those deaths may not be crimes, and not need amnesty. In most cases, there has been no responsibility decided, at least by the authorities. I repeat part of a post from another thread:

"It should be asked what is the function of small groups of armed blackshirts. IMHO opinion they were there to "keep the pot boiling". It would be a simple job to shadow a group of RTA either patrolling or static, and pop off a couple of shots as a group of red shirts came close. In an urban environment with lots of hard reflecting surfaces it is difficult to tell the source of the shots, so the soldiers would engage the reds. Up to you whether you believe the RTA might even get little assistance if their accuracy was lacking."

it is interesting that you choose a list which seems to excluded members of the security forces. Under the proposed legislation, their murder will become "legitimate political expression".

You're right, I was misled by the May 10th 2010 cut off date you posted. The list should of course include 5 other soldiers and 21 civilians killed on the 10th April

At least you are consistent - when the questions get too hard ignore them.

What was the question? You were just regurgitating a post I'd already disregarded as fantasy in another thread. There is no question there.

What was the function of the black shirts? Clear enough?

[kerryk]

A guilty person who is wasting this much money, time, and human lives, just to clear his own tarnished name, is an arrogant and unrepentant wastrel. A guilty person who commits these actions at state-level in a poor developing-world nation that is socially and economically fragile at this time, is an uncaring despot.

He could have walked away with his stolen money & lived out his days in the type of luxury that most people can not even dream of, yet he hovers vulture-like over this nation, fermenting divisions, unbalancing people's lives, and uprooting the first green shoots of a fledgling democracy.

Yunla; I believe you've managed to put the entire issue in "a nut-shell" in a very eloquent & brilliant manner !

If there would have been a "Rudyard Kipling Award", I am convinced you would have won it ! !

Admirer

The Kipling that was propagandaist for brazenfaced impreialism and its attendant racial attitudes? The Kipling that wrote,"The white mans burden?"

Take up the White Man's burden—

Send forth the best ye breed—

Go, bind your sons to exile

To serve your captives' need;

To wait, in heavy harness,

On fluttered folk and wild—

Your new-caught sullen peoples,

Half devil and half child.

—The White Man's Burden

Yunia eh? Hmmm. I didn't see that.

[phiphidon]

What was the function of the black shirts? Clear enough?

If / when one is brought to justice and the relationship/s between them and the red shirts / security forces are examined we might find out. Until then I haven't a clue and despite what you think, nor do you. It's who they were working for that is the crux of the matter.

[hellodolly]

What was the function of the black shirts? Clear enough?

If / when one is brought to justice and the relationship/s between them and the red shirts / security forces are examined we might find out. Until then I haven't a clue and despite what you think, nor do you. It's who they were working for that is the crux of the matter.

I think he is talking about the ones who ate with and slept with red shirts behind barricades that had been built so honest citizens couldn't get in to do there work and earn a living also to protect them from a invasion by the patients in a hospital. In other words do all the things the red shirts did only dress differently. We all know who they were working for both red and black shirts. That is no secret.

You don't really think they will be brought to justice do you? As far as the present government is concerned they are all innocent. And they are in the process of rewriting a constitution that says so.

[OzMick]

What was the function of the black shirts? Clear enough?

If / when one is brought to justice and the relationship/s between them and the red shirts / security forces are examined we might find out. Until then I haven't a clue and despite what you think, nor do you. It's who they were working for that is the crux of the matter.

Good, let's bring as many to justice as possible. Now who doesn't want that? The man who paid them.

If he DOESN'T organise an amnesty, and Arisman and Jatuporn start facing a death sentence, they might decide to plead guilty with a full confession. If the blame for 92+ deaths gets laid where it belongs, Thaksin won't be safe anywhere in the world.

[waza]

What was the function of the black shirts? Clear enough?

If / when one is brought to justice and the relationship/s between them and the red shirts / security forces are examined we might find out. Until then I haven't a clue and despite what you think, nor do you. It's who they were working for that is the crux of the matter.

Maybe this will help you phiphidon............