Workload At International Schools.

[Tyrellius]

Everyone seems to be interested in trying to get into an International School. However, is it really worth it?

I have heard that the workload at some of the 'tier 1' and tier 2' schools can be massive. I am not entirely certain of this. However, I would guess that it is.

What do you guys think?

[Tyrellius]

P.S The title should be 'Work load at International Schools'. The key seem to be jamming on my laptop.

Can a mod or admin. change it please, Thanks.

[markg]

The workload in international schools is significantly higher, in my opinion, than in a Thai school.

When i worked in a Thai school, I created and submitted lesson plans, marked books (tick and flick only - no comments), set tests at the end of every term and input the test results in a ledger.

I taught my lessons and went home. I worked from 7.45 to about 4pm Monday to Friday. I think the key-words are that I was responsible for teaching and that's about it.

In the international school I work in now, I work from 7.30 to 5pm Monday to Friday. I catch up with marking and emails in the evenings or at weekends.

In addition to what i did in a Thai school, all teachers have a lot more responsibilities. Arrange assemblies once a week (on a rota), do homeroom and take care of the students' pastoral needs which can be significant, mark students books according to the ATL (Attainment Target Levels) and leave specific comments about how they can improve their level. Record student progress and show evidence about this. It may include photocopying work and filing it under the student's name in a very large filing cabinet for every student I teach. If students are either failing or advancing at a gifted-student rate I have to show how i am using differentiation to meet their needs. I have to make sure every student in my homeroom is doing their homework (subject teachers sign it off in their student diaries) and if they are not, call or email the parents and meet with them to discuss the problem. I have to organise at least 3 field trips per academic year and get parental consent for each of them. If students have a problem or are sick, as a homeroom teacher, I have to deal with this. Many lunchtimes will see some students in lunchtime detention. If i confiscate a mobile phone, I have to get the parents to come in. I probably answer 4 or 5 parental email enquiries per day ranging from 'Jane said Jimmy is bullying her' to 'Jane's aunt just committed suicide, please take it easy on her at school'.

Working at an international school required me to change up at least 2 gears. The workload is MUCH much more. However, the holidays are far far better. If I average out my working week over the course of a year, it's about the same as working in a Thai school.

Things that i like about it are that i speak at native English speaker rate as all lessons are in English. Most of our kids cannot speak Thai, so the lingua franca in the playground is English. The other thing is that i speak quietly. The students absolutely do NOT speak when I am speaking. That never happend in a Thai school.

I enjoy the increased level of responsibility with the students - the buck stops with me.

Tracking students' academic progress and providing evidence takes up an awful lot of time.

Hope that helps you.

[Phatcharanan]

The above is all correct..........that's a normal workload for the good internationals.

[saakura]

I am a parent trying to make a decision on sending my child to an international school and your post certainly helped me. I do hope that all the teachers are equally diligent and sincere like you.

The workload in international schools is significantly higher, in my opinion, than in a Thai school.

When i worked in a Thai school, I created and submitted lesson plans, marked books (tick and flick only - no comments), set tests at the end of every term and input the test results in a ledger.

I taught my lessons and went home. I worked from 7.45 to about 4pm Monday to Friday. I think the key-words are that I was responsible for teaching and that's about it.

In the international school I work in now, I work from 7.30 to 5pm Monday to Friday. I catch up with marking and emails in the evenings or at weekends.

In addition to what i did in a Thai school, all teachers have a lot more responsibilities. Arrange assemblies once a week (on a rota), do homeroom and take care of the students' pastoral needs which can be significant, mark students books according to the ATL (Attainment Target Levels) and leave specific comments about how they can improve their level. Record student progress and show evidence about this. It may include photocopying work and filing it under the student's name in a very large filing cabinet for every student I teach. If students are either failing or advancing at a gifted-student rate I have to show how i am using differentiation to meet their needs. I have to make sure every student in my homeroom is doing their homework (subject teachers sign it off in their student diaries) and if they are not, call or email the parents and meet with them to discuss the problem. I have to organise at least 3 field trips per academic year and get parental consent for each of them. If students have a problem or are sick, as a homeroom teacher, I have to deal with this. Many lunchtimes will see some students in lunchtime detention. If i confiscate a mobile phone, I have to get the parents to come in. I probably answer 4 or 5 parental email enquiries per day ranging from 'Jane said Jimmy is bullying her' to 'Jane's aunt just committed suicide, please take it easy on her at school'.

Working at an international school required me to change up at least 2 gears. The workload is MUCH much more. However, the holidays are far far better. If I average out my working week over the course of a year, it's about the same as working in a Thai school.

Things that i like about it are that i speak at native English speaker rate as all lessons are in English. Most of our kids cannot speak Thai, so the lingua franca in the playground is English. The other thing is that i speak quietly. The students absolutely do NOT speak when I am speaking. That never happend in a Thai school.

I enjoy the increased level of responsibility with the students - the buck stops with me.

Tracking students' academic progress and providing evidence takes up an awful lot of time.

Hope that helps you.

[Tyrellius]

It seems that International school Teachers do many of the same things as they do in the UK.

[markg]

It seems that International school Teachers do many of the same things as they do in the UK.

Indeed. We are inspected and accredited by the same organisation that inspects and accredits UK schools, so yes, we do exactly the same kind of work.

To Saakura - ask any prospective school who accredits them.

If the answer is just the Thai Ministry of Education, then I'd suggest you forget it. If it's a reputable, independent organisation, like say CfBT then you know that the school is being run to the same standards as in the UK. Their focus is absolutely on the student and that is how it should be !

[paully]

It seems that International school Teachers do many of the same things as they do in the UK.

Which is another good reason for those intending to teach at the better int. schools to get home country teaching experience as well as a PGCE or its equivalent. If you can hack teaching in a UK school for 2-3 years, you should be fine in an int.school. It would be a huge shock to the system for TEFL teachers though.

[LucidLucifer]

It seems that International school Teachers do many of the same things as they do in the UK.

Which is another good reason for those intending to teach at the better int. schools to get home country teaching experience as well as a PGCE or its equivalent. If you can hack teaching in a UK school for 2-3 years, you should be fine in an int.school. It would be a huge shock to the system for TEFL teachers though.

When a TEFL teacher sends their CV into a real international school it gets filed straight in the bin without even being looked at. They won't even get their foot into the door so your point about it being a shock to them is totally irrelevent.

I don't think being a PGCE qualified teacher means you are less likely to be a drunk than a TEFL qualified teacher (I've met a few of each who were borderline alcoholics and only here for cheap beer and girls) but I do agree that comparing an EP school to a fully fledged international school is like apples and oranges.

I will agree in some ways that your qualifications and where you teach does not mean that you will be less likely to be an alchoholic, but generally, dare I say in the vast majority of cases, western qualified teachers that hold home country certification are by their very nature more professional than their TEFL counterparts.

It is a vocation that they have chosen and studied hard to get in to. They have also met the professional standards required by the GTC. It is a career, and they are less likely to blow it than a TEFL teacher who is just looking to extend there stay abroad. Remember that a international school teacher who decides to return to the UK will very likely continue in the profession and therefore needs good references, can the same be said for a TEFLer?

Please don't think I am tarring all TEFL teachers with the same brush here, there are some excellent practitioners out there, but your comparison of apples and oranges for EP schools and proper international schools also applies to the staff within them.

Edited May 28, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[paully]

When a TEFL teacher sends their CV into a real international school it gets filed straight in the bin without even being looked at. They won't even get their foot into the door so your point about it being a shock to them is totally irrelevent.

Doesn't stop some of the TEFL fraternity from wanting to get a nice int. school salary, though, does it..

BTW, lucifer, unless you're a moderator, kindly refrain from lecturing others as to what is, or isn't, relevant in their posts.

[LucidLucifer]

When a TEFL teacher sends their CV into a real international school it gets filed straight in the bin without even being looked at. They won't even get their foot into the door so your point about it being a shock to them is totally irrelevent.

Doesn't stop some of the TEFL fraternity from wanting to get a nice int. school salary, though, does it..

BTW, lucifer, unless you're a moderator, kindly refrain from lecturing others as to what is, or isn't, relevant in their posts.

There is nothing wrong with the TEFL fraternity wanting a nice international school job and salary, but until they become certified properly, their chances of that are virtually non-existent. And once they are properly certified, they cease to be a TEFL teacher. Therefore, discussing whether a TEFL teacher could handle the pressures and workload of a teaching job in a real international school, is, by its very nature irrelevent, because it isn't going to happen.

[Scott]

Keep it civil.

[Tyrellius]

So,I guess that the workload at these 'good' international schools matches that of State schools in the UK?

[Phatcharanan]

So,I guess that the workload at these 'good' international schools matches that of State schools in the UK?

So,I guess that the workload at these 'good' international schools matches that of State schools in the UK?

Yeah..........pretty much.

[markg]

So,I guess that the workload at these 'good' international schools matches that of State schools in the UK?

So,I guess that the workload at these 'good' international schools matches that of State schools in the UK?

Yeah..........pretty much.

Some of the better State schools, and many of the private schools too. The same rules, curriculum and accreditation is used.

[Tyrellius]

Would you guys do this work if let's say, their was a new law stating that No teacher at an International school could get payed more than 70,000 baht a month?

Would you still do it?

[LucidLucifer]

Would you guys do this work if let's say, their was a new law stating that No teacher at an International school could get payed more than 70,000 baht a month?

Would you still do it?

It wouldn't make it financially viable for me to do it at this time of my life. I previously turned down a much, much more lucrative contract in the middle-east to come to Thailand. So my answer would be definite no. Ask me again in another 15 years, and you may get a different answer.

[samsiam]

All the teachers at my kids school are excellent.....never had an issue with any one of them.

The holidays are ridiculous though.

[markg]

Would you guys do this work if let's say, their was a new law stating that No teacher at an International school could get payed more than 70,000 baht a month?

Would you still do it?

I keep telling people - it's not how much you earn, it's how much you can save living the lifestyle you want.

For example, I have a friend in the UK who is a qualified teacher with 4 years experience. He earns 34,000 pounds per year living in London.

Thats about 140k Thai baht per month before tax. Lets say about 110k after tax. He pays nearly 50k a month in rent. That leaves him 60k a month.

Which is not a million miles away from someone earning 70k a month in Thailand at this point.

Personally, I eat out for every meal and have a good drink up once a week, have a nice house with a maid/cleaner coming once a week.

Dial that into your London salary and you're just about spent up for the month.

On your (ficticious) 70k a month Thai salary, you're still streets ahead.

I definitely save more than my UK counterparts here for the same lifestyle I'd say.

Oh, and i don't have to pay to go on holiday.

I live in the place where people pay to go on holiday..........!

There's an old adage along the lines of 'you don't go into education if you want to be rich'.

Education is a calling.

Earning enough to make it comfortable makes it that little bit easier.

I'll never be monetary rich, but I also never count down the days to pay day.

Hope that helps.

If what you're really asking is '<deleted>, that seems like a whole load of work' then you'd be right. It is.

It is a substantial amount of work indeed -much more than your average 40 hour week working in an office. However, that is offset by 'ridiculous' holidays.

I have two things to say to people who begrudge the holidays teachers get.

1. It all averages out over the course of a year. I work a lot longer in an average week than many white collar workers

2. If you like the holidays, become a teacher. All you've gotta do is get a decent degree in a recognised subject from a good university, do a couple more years post-grad work, then start out on the bottom rung of the ladder. After about 10 years, you can consider that you've made it ! Easy really........................

[Tyrellius]

Thank you sincerely for the above replies.

It does seem that the high salaries earned at these international schools go hand-in-hand with heavy workloads.

However, if you are a dedicated enough teacher (as you guys are), then that workload becomes part and package of the 'calling'.

One more question. How much is teacher taxed, on let's say a salary of 120,000 baht per month?

[LucidLucifer]

http://www.rd.go.th/...ish/6045.0.html

It's progressive. You can find a table on the exact rates following the above link. I've just tried to cut and paste it into here, but the formatting went all off.

Just as an aside, with your posts on other threads, I presume you're thinking of applying for an international position. If you're hoping of securing one for the next academic year, you've left it a bit late.

Edited May 29, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[Tyrellius]

http://www.rd.go.th/...ish/6045.0.html

It's progressive. You can find a table on the exact rates following the above link. I've just tried to cut and paste it into here, but the formatting went all off.

Just as an aside, with your posts on other threads, I presume you're thinking of applying for an international position. If you're hoping of securing one for the next academic year, you've left it a bit late.

Yeah, I do think that I have left it a little late this year. I may stay another year in the UK, or head to a school that is recruiting in the ME. Probably the former though.7

Thank you for the table. LL.

[aussiebebe]

http://www.rd.go.th/...ish/6045.0.html

It's progressive. You can find a table on the exact rates following the above link. I've just tried to cut and paste it into here, but the formatting went all off.

Just as an aside, with your posts on other threads, I presume you're thinking of applying for an international position. If you're hoping of securing one for the next academic year, you've left it a bit late.

Yeah, I do think that I have left it a little late this year. I may stay another year in the UK, or head to a school that is recruiting in the ME. Probably the former though.7

Thank you for the table. LL.

Hi, you asked if it (working in an International school) was really worth it? You're probably approaching it from a financial perspective when in reality being a teacher is vocational and motivation is usually intrinsic for teachers who love working with young learners.

The work load at a top International School in Thailand is high compared with a lecturing position in a Saudi university but there's no way that a school teacher would want to lecture and few people want to try, or are able to tolerate, life in Saudi on a compound, however generous the tax-free salary is. The remuneration packages are quite comparable but that is where the similarities end.

[tonititan]

Thank you sincerely for the above replies.

It does seem that the high salaries earned at these international schools go hand-in-hand with heavy workloads.

I wouldn't call it a "heavy" workload, I'd call it a "normal" workload. Normal as compared to teaching jobs in the US or UK, that is. Yes, international school teachers work hard, but so do certified teachers all over the world. Honestly, I feel that if people aren't willing to put in the work (and I don't mean you, OP), then they shouldn't be teachers. The last thing that any education system needs is more teachers who do a half-assed job and try to get away with doing as little work as possible.

[Ijustwannateach]

A post and several replies have been removed. It is not permitted to bash foreign teachers in general the in teacher's subforum. Please check the subforum guidelines before posting.

[Ijustwannateach]

And yes, the increased pay also has increased duties, workload, and expectations...

[Phatcharanan]

Thank you sincerely for the above replies.

It does seem that the high salaries earned at these international schools go hand-in-hand with heavy workloads.

I wouldn't call it a "heavy" workload, I'd call it a "normal" workload. Normal as compared to teaching jobs in the US or UK, that is.

Absolutely agree.

[culicine]

I've been in a Thai school EP for many years as a mathematics teacher and we also have quite a heavy workload. I have 24 x 50min periods, start at 7.30-4.30. We have a horrendous amount of paperwork - class evaluations, score books, daily lesson plans, etc. Then there are monthly staff meetings, gate duty, parent teacher meetings etc. I test all my students weekly, giving me about 100 quizzes to mark per week. So those without experience of teaching in such a program should refrain from comments about the lower workload in Thai schools. I've been teaching 12 years so I manage to get all this done, mostly, during working hours. Yes there are some schools were teachers just go in and teach, then can go home, but I don't think these are in the majority.

[Tyrellius]

And yes, the increased pay also has increased duties, workload, and expectations...

I don't mind that at all. I work very hard as it is teaching in a UK Primary school. I often am at school from 8am - 5.30/6pm.

[markg]

I've been in a Thai school EP for many years as a mathematics teacher and we also have quite a heavy workload. I have 24 x 50min periods, start at 7.30-4.30. We have a horrendous amount of paperwork - class evaluations, score books, daily lesson plans, etc. Then there are monthly staff meetings, gate duty, parent teacher meetings etc. I test all my students weekly, giving me about 100 quizzes to mark per week. So those without experience of teaching in such a program should refrain from comments about the lower workload in Thai schools. I've been teaching 12 years so I manage to get all this done, mostly, during working hours. Yes there are some schools were teachers just go in and teach, then can go home, but I don't think these are in the majority.

That's an awful lot of testing you are doing. Why do you need to test so much?

As a matter of interest, what do you do with the scores?

At our school, we do two tests per year. The rest of the year we use Attainment Target Levels which allow us to use continuous assessment of student ability and to modify our lessons immediately.

Many schools think a written paper test, where the scores are noted on a spreadsheet, actually mean something.

They don't. It's just paperwork.

Scores are only meaningful if they are used to improve the way the teacher delivers his lesson to that particular child.

I would serioulsy question any school that required me to mark hundreds of tests per week.

I can assess a student's abiltiy perfectly well using continuous assessment.

I don't waste my time on such nonsense as weekly tests. (I teach in Secondary by the way. Weekly spelling tests for primary have some use, though I would use peer-to-peer marking for them)