Leasing Land And Divorce ?

[april81]

Hi,

I signed a leasing contract 3 years ago for 30 years for a land 2 raï in Krabi province that i paid and keep all evidence that the money came from my bank account in Switzerland. In case of divorce do the leasing contract will still work or my wife will get the land and sell it ? Now we are married and plan to build a house on it with my own money. Should i register the house on my name or it will not protect me more ? A lawyer advice me to do a pre marriage agreement, do you think it's a safe solution ? If we are separated i'm agree to share with her 50% but i don't want to loose everything...

Thank you so much for your advice

[Khun Jean]

If you signed the lease before marriage there is nothing to worry about.

If you build the house with funds that were yours before the marriage the house will be 100% yours.

It is called sin suan tua, shared assets are sin somros.

Google those terms for the details.

A prenuptial is 'built in' in Thailand. Everything owned before marriage will not be shared.

It might be necessary according to Swiss laws.

Now if you were married when signing that lease, upon divorce it will have to be disolved as no contracts between spouses after divorce are allowed. They have to be renegotiated.

Again not forget about the Swiss side of it. You have to register the marriage there too and under Swiss law it can be very different.

Best protection against that is never go live in Switzerland.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Khun Jean

[april81]

Thanks Jean, yes i signed the lease before married and it's registered to the land office

"If you build the house with funds that were yours before the marriage the house will be 100% yours"

The found came from Switzerland i can proove it and we sign a prenuptial agreement to the swiss ambassy to separe the assets i have in my country but this contract doesn't work in Thailand as you know

So now we are married and i want to build a house, should i put it on my name too ?

Thanks again

[Khun Jean]

Yes, put it in your name, no problem when the funds were yours before the marriage.

What you have then is the best you can get in Thailand. But of course you will have to keep in mind that while the ownership and usage is secure, selling it would be a problem if there is no cooperation from the landowner.

So act accordingly.

[damo]

Some very good information, Im glad I read this post.

[Swiss1960]

Under Swiss law, the standard marriage contract (by law, does not need to be set up and signed) is that all assets owned before marriage will stay in the same ownership when divorcing. However, all assets accumulated during marriage (bank accounts, pension funds, houses, cars etc.) will be seen as joint ownership and split 50:50 at divorce. To omit that, you would need to sign a special marriage contract.

When you buy a house, make sure the contract clearly outlines who invested how much, because only then you can get your full money back. But be aware that without special agreements in the contract, when you sell the house with profit, the profit is seen as accumulated during marriage and would be split 50:50 on divorce!

[ThaidDown]

Op says he signed a 30 year lease, was it registered at the land office and added to the rear of the chanote ??

If not the lease is assumed to be for no more than 3 years,.

Also if a contract is made between husband and wife it can be cancelled by either party, without reason at any time during the marriage, or up to one year after a dissolution. There is a rider concerning 3rd parties see http://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/thai-marriage-and-contracts-between-husband-and-wife.html (realise does not apply in op's case, posted for clarity)

[khunPer]

When you build a house, you will not have a clear registration of ownership. Only when buying a second hand house, you can have a registration made at the Land Office. If you obtain a yellow housebook (for foreigners), you may be listed as something like "master of the house" (make sure no one in the blue housebook for Thais is listed as the master/owner).

Therefore, when building a house, make sure your name is on the archietect drawings and your name is on the building permission and building constructor contract(s). Keep all reciepts, payments slips etc. as prof. If you take money in from abroad (min. 20,000 US$), ask your bank for a formular to be approved by the National Bank, that your money comes from abroad and are going to be used for protery. That form will allow you to bring the same amout out of Thailand later, if sell the house or...

A way to protect your investment may be, to have a loan - the value of the house - in your name declared on the back of the Chanute deed. Then the land cannot be sold or transferred, before the loan has been fully settled.

[soi41]

When you build a house, you will not have a clear registration of ownership. Only when buying a second hand house, you can have a registration made at the Land Office. If you obtain a yellow housebook (for foreigners), you may be listed as something like "master of the house" (make sure no one in the blue housebook for Thais is listed as the master/owner).

Therefore, when building a house, make sure your name is on the archietect drawings and your name is on the building permission and building constructor contract(s). Keep all reciepts, payments slips etc. as prof. If you take money in from abroad (min. 20,000 US$), ask your bank for a formular to be approved by the National Bank, that your money comes from abroad and are going to be used for protery. That form will allow you to bring the same amout out of Thailand later, if sell the house or...

A way to protect your investment may be, to have a loan - the value of the house - in your name declared on the back of the Chanute deed. Then the land cannot be sold or transferred, before the loan has been fully settled.

Wrong, wrong ! The blue or yellow book has got nothing whatsover to do with ownership. The blue book is registretion of adress for Thais, and the yellow book is a registration of adress for foreigners. No more, no less.

All posters above seem to presume, that the OP is leasing from his wife. Nothing in OP's post about that. I agree that if that is the case, the lease can be voided by a divorce. But if the lease is with rubberfarmer Somchai, a divorce will change nothing. So if Somchai is the letter, go ahead and build the house, be cautious but in a way it doesn't matter, because in 27 years it will Somchais again. So if the OP is 80+, go ahead and do it. If the OP is 25, it is still probably cheaper than renting for 27 years. But nothing to the children or grandchildren .

And all the refferrences to Swiss law, forget it, we are a long way from the alps!

Ps. Blue/yellow book is issued at amphur, not landoffice.

[simple1]

Sorry Soi41, but you are incorrect regards the Blue Household card. The Blue Household card does have the facility to document the named Thai owner of the house, as is the case for a house recently purchased by my Thai wife. She solely has the authority (via the Amphur) to add the name of of other Thai's, such as her son, for proof of residency, or for me to obtain a Yellow House Hold Card for proof of residency via the Amphur (sic). My application has been approved by the Amphur upon providing proof of marriage, passport etc

Edited June 4, 2012 by simple1

[soi41]

Sorry Soi41, but you are incorrect regards the Blue Household card. The Blue Household card does have the facility to document the named Thai owner of the house, as is the case for a house recently purchased by my Thai wife. She solely has the authority (via the Amphur) to add the name of of other Thai's, such as her son, for proof of residency, or for me to obtain a Yellow House Hold Card for proof of residency via the Amphur (sic). My application has been approved by the Amphur upon providing proof of marriage, passport etc

I stand corrected . What I meant to say was, that only the chanote is proof of ownership, or as in the OP's case proof of the lease.

[khunPer]

@Soi41,

The Housebooks (blue or yellow) is not a prof of ownership. But it may help a housebuilder - together with other documentation - to be listed as master of the house (not meaning real ownership documentation). A foreigner can own a house, but not land (unless you have invested some 40+ mio. baht), however when you build the house, you cannot obtain owner documentation from the Landoffice - only when you buy a house.

[simple1]

N/A

[TommoPhysicist]

Sorry Soi41, but you are incorrect regards the Blue Household card. The Blue Household card does have the facility to document the named Thai owner of the house, as is the case for a house recently purchased by my Thai wife. She solely has the authority (via the Amphur) to add the name of of other Thai's, such as her son, for proof of residency, or for me to obtain a Yellow House Hold Card for proof of residency via the Amphur (sic). My application has been approved by the Amphur upon providing proof of marriage, passport etc

No, simple1, you are wrong.

The head of the household can be a foreigner, with a Yellow book, the Blue book will also state the name of HoH.

The foreigner HoH, can decide who is listed in either book.

The books do not indicate ownership, but only list those living at that address.

Edited June 5, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[simple1]

Sorry Soi41, but you are incorrect regards the Blue Household card. The Blue Household card does have the facility to document the named Thai owner of the house, as is the case for a house recently purchased by my Thai wife. She solely has the authority (via the Amphur) to add the name of of other Thai's, such as her son, for proof of residency, or for me to obtain a Yellow House Hold Card for proof of residency via the Amphur (sic). My application has been approved by the Amphur upon providing proof of marriage, passport etc

No, simple1, you are wrong.

The head of the household can be a foreigner, with a Yellow book, the Blue book will also state the name of HoH.

The foreigner HoH, can decide who is listed in either book.

The books do not indicate ownership, but only list those living at that address.

OK - maybe my wife has not translated the Blue Book wording correctly. In clarification how do you become the documented primary person in the Blue Book if you are not the owner of the property? Further, to assist my understanding what is the legal definition of Master of the House (HOH) under Thai law, with the associated rights? Also I understand that the head of the household can be a foreigner, with a Yellow book, but only if the foreigner has a registered lease/usufruct in-place with the Land Office?

Thanks for your patience.

Edited June 5, 2012 by simple1

[TommoPhysicist]

Sorry Soi41, but you are incorrect regards the Blue Household card. The Blue Household card does have the facility to document the named Thai owner of the house, as is the case for a house recently purchased by my Thai wife. She solely has the authority (via the Amphur) to add the name of of other Thai's, such as her son, for proof of residency, or for me to obtain a Yellow House Hold Card for proof of residency via the Amphur (sic). My application has been approved by the Amphur upon providing proof of marriage, passport etc

No, simple1, you are wrong.

The head of the household can be a foreigner, with a Yellow book, the Blue book will also state the name of HoH.

The foreigner HoH, can decide who is listed in either book.

The books do not indicate ownership, but only list those living at that address.

OK - maybe my wife has not translated the Blue Book wording correctly. In clarification how do you become the documented primary person in the Blue Book if you are not the owner of the property? Further, to assist my understanding what is the legal definition of Master of the House (HOH) under Thai law, with the associated rights? Also I understand that the head of the household can be a foreigner, with a Yellow book, but only if the foreigner has a registered lease/usufruct in-place with the Land Office?

Thanks for your patience.

You tell the Amphur office when you get/change the house books .... head of household is called 'Jao Baan'( เจ้าบ้าน)

Owner of the property has to sign and show ID card at Amphur office. Chanote should be produced to show ownership/lease/etc.

If you buy land/house for a child, they can't be 'Jao Baan', so the parents have to assign a person this role on behalf of the child.

Edited June 5, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[simple1]

Sorry Soi41, but you are incorrect regards the Blue Household card. The Blue Household card does have the facility to document the named Thai owner of the house, as is the case for a house recently purchased by my Thai wife. She solely has the authority (via the Amphur) to add the name of of other Thai's, such as her son, for proof of residency, or for me to obtain a Yellow House Hold Card for proof of residency via the Amphur (sic). My application has been approved by the Amphur upon providing proof of marriage, passport etc

No, simple1, you are wrong.

The head of the household can be a foreigner, with a Yellow book, the Blue book will also state the name of HoH.

The foreigner HoH, can decide who is listed in either book.

The books do not indicate ownership, but only list those living at that address.

OK - maybe my wife has not translated the Blue Book wording correctly. In clarification how do you become the documented primary person in the Blue Book if you are not the owner of the property? Further, to assist my understanding what is the legal definition of Master of the House (HOH) under Thai law, with the associated rights? Also I understand that the head of the household can be a foreigner, with a Yellow book, but only if the foreigner has a registered lease/usufruct in-place with the Land Office?

Thanks for your patience.

You tell the Amphur office when you get/change the house books .... head of household is called 'Jao Baan'( เจ้าบ้าน)

Owner of the property has to sign and show ID card at Amphur office. Chanote should be produced to show ownership/lease/etc.

If you buy land/house for a child, they can't be 'Jao Baan', so the parents have to assign a person this role on behalf of the child.

One last clarification, for a foreigner to be named as the HoH in the Blue Book for a house, that I understand can only be acquired though a company entity, do the Thai shareholders have to authorise the Amphur to allow this facility? In other words what is the process

[TommoPhysicist]

I dont know.