Red Shirts Told To Fight 'Attempts To Unseat Govt'

[animatic]

the point was that IMO a big aspect of why some expats feel so strongly in their hate for him is because of how the instability that is blamed on him affected their own quality of life, i made it extremely clear that this wasn't the only reason that people don't like him and it was nothing about them not caring about the country.

and i stand by that opinion no matter how unpopular it will obviously be on this forum.

I did read your first post and I understood that you were not saying all foreigners are only motivated by self-interest, or that they all don't care about Thai people. I never accused you of anything, and I also don't see why your opinions should make you unpopular - foruming ideas and discussing them is not a negative thing in itself. I am new to this forum and only passing through, but I have been a regular on a sociology forum since 1989 and I don't judge people on their beliefs because beliefs can change and so can people.

I was picking up on the points you raised because I have yet to meet a single farang who feels their own life (including all aspects of 'comfort' in Thailand) is the main factor in deciding if they agree or disagree with Thaksins crimes. Everyone I know thinks he's corrupt to his boots and is dangerous. I've said before I don't hate him but I do fear where his Ego (which gets the capital 'e') has led Thailand in the past and where it promises to lead Thailand in the near future.

The most dangerous people in human history were all egomaniacs and there is no other word for a billionaire who escaped justice and chooses to return to the scene of his crimes to appease his ego. He could be living under a new name with his billions on some faraway desert island, but his ego prevents him doing that and that is why he is 'hated' by so many.

Most farangs love Thailand and the Thai people, and certain individuals from Thailand more than others.

Those reasons alone are reason enough to not ignore the ongoing threat to Thailands stability that Thaksin so obviously is.

History has shown repeatedly that amoral megalomaniacs are good at rallying sychophants and ideologues to do their foot work for them and create false realities for the masses, that feed their bosses egos with adoration, and their street ranks with cannon fodder for their larger aims.

History has also shown that these kinds of people harm great numbers of other people, mostly the poor, in blind pusuit of their grandiose plans. It only takes the the silence of persons who see those historical patterns being repeated, for the greater harm to the many to come to pass.

[pakorn7]

The Elite is very good at using the court to unseat Thaksin government, as no one is allowed to question court decision, regardless if it make sense or not.

This is not the first time. Remember Samak & Somchai?

That is why Thaksin want to change the constitution to remove the power from the court.

AND THAT IS A MISTAKE.

[Yunla]

well plenty do absolutely 100% venomously hate him, with a huge passion...

look, i think most expats reading, while they probably won't openly admit their annoyance of being inconveined or affected by protests and unrest, did feel that way plenty of times.

it's not selfish, it's human nature.

and i don't think it's such an out there opinion to think that this could intensify their hate to a far higher degree than if what they view as his corrupt actions had no affect on their lives!

This post made a lot more sense to me than the first post I responded to which seemed to me to have several questions unanswered.

Re: me not hating people, in my case my 'faith' that to fill yourself with hate is to poison your own body.

I also have a more stratified reason to not hate Thaksin, he is a unrepentant violent criminal and I do not deign to love or hate such a lowlife. I look down on Thaksin from a great height because he steals money from developing country and sends poor farmers to their deaths, he is literally "beneath contempt" as the saying goes, and I condemn him but will not lower myself to hating him. By contrast I look up to (and love) my local streetsweeper who is poorer than a churchmouse, always friendly smile and goes out sweeping in the summer heat even though she is in her 60's.

Re; the "redshirts told to fight attempts to unseat govt" it is impossible to not see the ugly direction all this is going. The attempts to unseat govt don't actually exist, it is just that the opposition want to speak freely and they want PTP especially Yingluck to step out of the murky shadows and honestly discuss why the bills are so great for the average Thai. PTP have done everything except hide at the bottom of the sea, to avoid discussing their actual reasons and why they are so keen to push the bills through.

The only people who are currently unseating PTP are PTP themselves with their scandalous policy-vacuum, institutional mismanagement and 'walls-of-silence'.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Yunla

[AleG]

the point was that IMO a big aspect of why some expats feel so strongly in their hate for him is because of how the instability that is blamed on him affected their own quality of life, i made it extremely clear that this wasn't the only reason that people don't like him and it was nothing about them not caring about the country.

and i stand by that opinion no matter how unpopular it will obviously be on this forum.

From the general perspective of most of the ex-pats I know, their dislike for him has absolutely nothing to do with how he has affected their quality of life, most of them should thank him for keeping Thailand a relatively cheep place to live and not let it turn into another Singapore, which it has always had the ability to do when not crippled by the self serving interests of a handful of people.

From a personal point of view, and call me crazy if you like, I have always found egotistical, mass murdering, pathological liars to be quite distasteful, no matter what their name is or which country they are trying to crush..... the day I start liking one, I will start to question my own sanity, and more importantly, my reason for doing so.

Precisely, I don't know from where neurofiend gets his notion of people here hating Thaksin for whatever level of personal discomfort they may have felt.

What a silly preposition; is as saying that, since Muammar Gadafi never caused me any trouble, personally, I can't have a strong opinion about him.

[nurofiend]

The attempts to unseat govt don't actually exist

stay tuned is all i can say to that

[nurofiend]

the point was that IMO a big aspect of why some expats feel so strongly in their hate for him is because of how the instability that is blamed on him affected their own quality of life, i made it extremely clear that this wasn't the only reason that people don't like him and it was nothing about them not caring about the country.

and i stand by that opinion no matter how unpopular it will obviously be on this forum.

From the general perspective of most of the ex-pats I know, their dislike for him has absolutely nothing to do with how he has affected their quality of life, most of them should thank him for keeping Thailand a relatively cheep place to live and not let it turn into another Singapore, which it has always had the ability to do when not crippled by the self serving interests of a handful of people.

From a personal point of view, and call me crazy if you like, I have always found egotistical, mass murdering, pathological liars to be quite distasteful, no matter what their name is or which country they are trying to crush..... the day I start liking one, I will start to question my own sanity, and more importantly, my reason for doing so.

Precisely, I don't know from where neurofiend gets his notion of people here hating Thaksin for whatever level of personal discomfort they may have felt.

What a silly preposition; is as saying that, since Muammar Gadafi never caused me any trouble, personally, I can't have a strong opinion about him.

actually no it's not, what it is like saying is:

since Muammar Gadafi has caused me trouble, personally, I have a stronger opinion about him than i would have if he didn't.

[GentlemanJim]

the point was that IMO a big aspect of why some expats feel so strongly in their hate for him is because of how the instability that is blamed on him affected their own quality of life, i made it extremely clear that this wasn't the only reason that people don't like him and it was nothing about them not caring about the country.

and i stand by that opinion no matter how unpopular it will obviously be on this forum.

From the general perspective of most of the ex-pats I know, their dislike for him has absolutely nothing to do with how he has affected their quality of life, most of them should thank him for keeping Thailand a relatively cheep place to live and not let it turn into another Singapore, which it has always had the ability to do when not crippled by the self serving interests of a handful of people.

From a personal point of view, and call me crazy if you like, I have always found egotistical, mass murdering, pathological liars to be quite distasteful, no matter what their name is or which country they are trying to crush..... the day I start liking one, I will start to question my own sanity, and more importantly, my reason for doing so.

Precisely, I don't know from where neurofiend gets his notion of people here hating Thaksin for whatever level of personal discomfort they may have felt.

What a silly preposition; is as saying that, since Muammar Gadafi never caused me any trouble, personally, I can't have a strong opinion about him.

actually no it's not, what it is like saying is:

since Muammar Gadafi has caused me trouble, personally, I have a stronger opinion about him than i would have if he didn't.

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin are wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

Edited June 6, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[smedly]

Physical wounds heal gradually over long periods of time, providing they are left alone to heal and tended with care. The same is true with society although the timeframe is much longer, the process of leaving-it-alone is the same. Why is it so hard to understand that YS and TS picking at scabs and opening old wounds time and time again is exactly the one thing that is guaranteed to harm Thailand further, and should not be done to any type of injury.

What this nation needs is stability and law, not more hardheaded militant rhetoric or bills that overturn the law. If bills are proposed they should be for the purpose of genuinely improving society or healing the damage already caused to Thailand, not bills designed to pretend the damage never happened or to re-open the wounds. How you can have a 'process of reconciliation' involving only one side of the division, while the other side are ignored and threatened with sonic cannons.

And Thaksin shouldn't even have any outlet for his voice in Thailand, partly because he causes division and reopens the wounds that he himself caused in the past, also because he is a dangerous fleeing criminal, and has showed his mad reckless desperation by funding and launching an armed uprising that led to over 90 deaths in 2010. All his words now should be discounted as that of a dangerous fleeing criminal who can add complicity to murder during the 2010 uprising to his list of whitecollar crimes and accusations of genocide.

so i take it you don't give any credence to the thought of general amnesties being a positive step towards a solution for political turmoil?

Who is seeking amnesty? The yellow shirts, the red shirts, regular people? How would Amnesty bring about reconciliation an end towards political turmoil? If both sides agree that an amnesty would bring about reconciliation then there wouldn't be this conflict. However, the idea of an amnesty is being pushed by one side only.

the only reason amnesty is being opposed is because it would also help one person, do you think they would oppose it if it didn't involve thaksin? i don't, and they've basically said as much.

so they are guilty of putting him above everyone else, just like they accuse the ptp of doing.

of course i won't argue that helping thaksin is not part of ptp's agenda.

i think amnesty can be a great solution for political turmoil as has been proven around the world and that includes thailand in the past.

i'd like to hear your opinion on what should be done to move forward.

leaving things as they are is no answer for moving forward... thaksin going to live in a cave isn't the answer either.

and if you think thaksin coming back and being thrown in jail is an answer for stability, well, i'll just leave that one in the air.

the country can't just leave things as they are, because people are still waiting for some kind of answer and solution, and that's the reason things have been relatively peaceful, because people are expecting a solution... to just move on and forget is not the cure, people will get restless.

how about the simple priciple of the sitting government abiding by the law - constitution and charter instead of trying to manipulate the rules - that is what this is about - if they want Thaksin back then do it through the legal system by proving he was inocent - and remember this Thaksin Shinwat still has charges to answer, oh and my focus is not on Thaksin it is on every corrupt individual in Thailand being brought to the courts - convicted and locked up - if thaksin gets pardoned from his past convictions what hope is there for this society and the law moving forward, no-one will ever see a courtroom or a prison for that matter - that is what is failing in this society and if the current sitting government get away with what they are trying to do then in my opinion Thailand has taken a huge step in the wrong direction. Like is keep saying - there is more to a democracy than having an election - it's about those voted into government respecting the law - constitution and all the people - THEY ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW

[nurofiend]

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin is wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

oh i'm listening... well reading, and as i said i don't expect anyone to be coming out and admitting that what i said has any truth to it, that the impact of the political turmoil (all of which they blame thaksin for) on their own lives has inflamed their hatred of him.

i'm not waiting on anyone to admit anything and was fully expecting a volley of disagreeing posts..

so i think i'll pass on a tv poll

[GentlemanJim]

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin is wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

oh i'm listening... well reading, and as i said i don't expect anyone to be coming out and admitting that what i said has any truth to it, that the impact of the political turmoil (all of which they blame thaksin for) on their own lives has inflamed their hatred of him.

i'm not waiting on anyone to admit anything and was fully expecting a volley of disagreeing posts..

so i think i'll pass on a tv poll

But people are disagreeing with you because your assessment of how they feel is wrong. Can you accept that? There are no hidden agendas here, you are simply wrong, Accept it, get over it.

[Yunla]

The attempts to unseat govt don't actually exist

stay tuned is all i can say to that

My point which stands is that the opposition actually don't want to unseat govt in the sense the PTP are implying, by streetpower or other coup. The opposition want Yingluck to show up in parliament regularly, discuss policies openly without cue-cards and answer the legitimate questions that the majority of Thais want to know. This includes why PTP are in such a rush to ram the bills through when they allegedly haven't even read the bills at all. And specifically why the pardoning of a dangerous fleeing criminal and giving him a 46bn lumpsum will improve the lives of normal voters. That is not "unseating" anybody unless the PTP responses to these questions get them voted out of office next election. Of course, that is the type of unseating they fear which is why they have refused to enter the arena of open unscripted debate either in parliament or in media interviews.

By opposition I mean Democrat Party, yellow-shirt and so-called multicoloured shirts which I would call "concerned citizens demanding answers to their questions" since the whole coloured-shirt thing (including red shirt) is actually an insult to the person wearing it, it implies that a piece of cotton or synthetic fabric defines a human being and not their depths of knowledge or their unique personality. Its so easy to repress people when referring to them as an object, a shirt, rather than calling them what they are which is the law-abiding electorate, and referring to their wishes as 'attempts to unseat govt' instead of 'asking questions and demanding honest answers'.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Yunla

[nurofiend]

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin is wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

oh i'm listening... well reading, and as i said i don't expect anyone to be coming out and admitting that what i said has any truth to it, that the impact of the political turmoil (all of which they blame thaksin for) on their own lives has inflamed their hatred of him.

i'm not waiting on anyone to admit anything and was fully expecting a volley of disagreeing posts..

so i think i'll pass on a tv poll

But people are disagreeing with you because your assessment of how they feel is wrong. Can you accept that? There are no hidden agendas here, you are simply wrong, Accept it, get over it.

well i don't think they'd tell me if i was right now would they, being thaksin haters n all and my point being an attack on the very purity of this beautiful hatred.

so accept my opinion as my opinion and get over it, or don't, i'm not that bothered tbf.

[nurofiend]

The attempts to unseat govt don't actually exist

stay tuned is all i can say to that

My point which stands is that the opposition actually don't want to unseat govt in the sense the PTP are implying, by streetpower or other coup. The opposition want Yingluck to show up in parliament regularly, discuss policies openly without cue cards and answer the legitimate questions that the majority of Thais want to know.

you have an optimistic outlook on thai politics, and you may be correct for the moment.

i can't argue otherwise, as i don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

[animatic]

From the general perspective of most of the ex-pats I know, their dislike for him has absolutely nothing to do with how he has affected their quality of life, most of them should thank him for keeping Thailand a relatively cheep place to live and not let it turn into another Singapore, which it has always had the ability to do when not crippled by the self serving interests of a handful of people.

From a personal point of view, and call me crazy if you like, I have always found egotistical, mass murdering, pathological liars to be quite distasteful, no matter what their name is or which country they are trying to crush..... the day I start liking one, I will start to question my own sanity, and more importantly, my reason for doing so.

Precisely, I don't know from where neurofiend gets his notion of people here hating Thaksin for whatever level of personal discomfort they may have felt.

What a silly preposition; is as saying that, since Muammar Gadafi never caused me any trouble, personally, I can't have a strong opinion about him.

actually no it's not, what it is like saying is:

since Muammar Gadafi has caused me trouble, personally, I have a stronger opinion about him than i would have if he didn't.

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin are wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

Four of four.

[nurofiend]

well i never... lots of people saying i was wrong!!

didn't see that one coming.

[Thaddeus]

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin is wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

oh i'm listening... well reading, and as i said i don't expect anyone to be coming out and admitting that what i said has any truth to it, that the impact of the political turmoil (all of which they blame thaksin for) on their own lives has inflamed their hatred of him.

i'm not waiting on anyone to admit anything and was fully expecting a volley of disagreeing posts..

so i think i'll pass on a tv poll

But people are disagreeing with you because your assessment of how they feel is wrong. Can you accept that? There are no hidden agendas here, you are simply wrong, Accept it, get over it.

well i don't think they'd tell me if i was right now would they, being thaksin haters n all and my point being an attack on the very purity of this beautiful hatred.

so accept my opinion as my opinion and get over it, or don't, i'm not that bothered tbf.

Well, sorry, wrong again.

I don't hate him, I don't have time for hate, it's a waste of energy.

But I do dislike what he represents, and not for selfish reasons, but for the damage he causes to Thailand.

[GentlemanJim]

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin is wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

oh i'm listening... well reading, and as i said i don't expect anyone to be coming out and admitting that what i said has any truth to it, that the impact of the political turmoil (all of which they blame thaksin for) on their own lives has inflamed their hatred of him.

i'm not waiting on anyone to admit anything and was fully expecting a volley of disagreeing posts..

so i think i'll pass on a tv poll

But people are disagreeing with you because your assessment of how they feel is wrong. Can you accept that? There are no hidden agendas here, you are simply wrong, Accept it, get over it.

well i don't think they'd tell me if i was right now would they, being thaksin haters n all and my point being an attack on the very purity of this beautiful hatred.

so accept my opinion as my opinion and get over it, or don't, i'm not that bothered tbf.

What is wrong with you? If your assessment of why we dislike Thaksin was correct we would all be saying 'Nurofiend you have hit the nail on the head'. Had you said 'all the Thaksin haters on here, hate him because he is a destructive egotistical selfish megalomaniac', you would have a good number of people giving you the thumbs up, but interestingly you choose to say we hate him because of some adverse effect on our comfort and quality of life. That is imagined and we are telling you it is wrong. No need to start exhibiting a persecution complex, we are saying you are wrong simply because you are.

[nurofiend]

What is wrong with you? If your assessment of why we dislike Thaksin was correct we would all be saying 'Nurofiend you have hit the nail on the head'. Had you said 'all the Thaksin haters on here, hate him because he is a destructive egotistical selfish megalomaniac', you would have a good number of people giving you the thumbs up, but interestingly you choose to say we hate him because of some adverse effect on our comfort and quality of life. That is imagined and we are telling you it is wrong. No need to start exhibiting a persecution complex, we are saying you are wrong simply because you are.

ahaha persecution complex, brilliant! and this following the opener "What is wrong with you?"

i don't feel persecuted, i find it quite amusing actually.

If your assessment of why we dislike Thaksin was correct we would all be saying 'Nurofiend you have hit the nail on the head'

hahahahahaha! thanks for that

[nurofiend]

Well, sorry, wrong again.

I don't hate him, I don't have time for hate, it's a waste of energy.

But I do dislike what he represents, and not for selfish reasons, but for the damage he causes to Thailand.

well good for you

[Ferangled]

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin are wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

To be fair I believe it is human nature to give the impression that your opinions come from an intelligent, well balanced, researched and considered thought process coupled with in depth research of the "facts". In reality the vast majority simply adopt the views of those around them and blindly swallow whatever the media puts in front of them.

I don't think anyone would expect a candid honest reply from anyone regarding the real motivation behind their stance on this, when in truth for many it would simply be because that is what "my mate reckons" or "that's the weight of local opinion where I live".

Clearly some small minority of us have learned to sit back, remain sceptical and try to keep a balanced open mind on the 1% of reality that we are given glimpses of, but most just like to give off that impression, when in reality their thought process is very far from balanced and considered; more akin to the mentality of a herd of sheep.

It's quite ironic that we now have a thread where those who staunchly oppose the current Government and the powers behind them, are playing the numbers game as a valid way to prove their point but are so happy to ignore the weight of Thai public opinion on the matter.

What I find really worrying is how strong peoples convictions are when based on so little actual transparent information and so much deliberate miss-information...

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt..."

[GentlemanJim]

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin are wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

To be fair I believe it is human nature to give the impression that your opinions come from an intelligent, well balanced, researched and considered thought process coupled with in depth research of the "facts". In reality the vast majority simply adopt the views of those around them and blindly swallow whatever the media puts in front of them.

I don't think anyone would expect a candid honest reply from anyone regarding the real motivation behind their stance on this, when in truth for many it would simply be because that is what "my mate reckons" or "that's the weight of local opinion where I live".

Clearly some small minority of us have learned to sit back, remain sceptical and try to keep a balanced open mind on the 1% of reality that we are given glimpses of, but most just like to give off that impression, when in reality their thought process is very far from balanced and considered; more akin to the mentality of a herd of sheep.

It's quite ironic that we now have a thread where those who staunchly oppose the current Government and the powers behind them, are playing the numbers game as a valid way to prove their point but are so happy to ignore the weight of Thai public opinion on the matter.

What I find really worrying is how strong peoples convictions are when based on so little actual transparent information and so much deliberate miss-information...

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt..."

For goodness sake, every one is entitled to their opinion but when Neurofiend tells me why I dislike Thaksin and I tell him he is wrong there is a problem with that! Is Nurofiend in my head? Are you? And Neurofiend is not talking about the majority of the Thai population whose quality of life and comfort has been hurt, he is presuming to summize why FARANG dislike Thaksin, and as one of those farangs I am telling him that in my case he is wrong, ok!

[Yunla]

It's quite ironic that we now have a thread where those who staunchly oppose the current Government and the powers behind them, are playing the numbers game as a valid way to prove their point but are so happy to ignore the weight of Thai public opinion on the matter.

What I find really worrying is how strong peoples convictions are when based on so little actual transparent information and so much deliberate miss-information...

I can see your point but if you apply your above comment to the thread topic, I think you will find there is very little room for the mysterious vagueness or lack of insight into normal Thai people you are alluding to.

The fact is that in 2010 the same people ordered the redmob to go out and fight to overthrow the 'elites' which in agrarian populism terms means anyone who isn't basically a farmworker, are now ordering the redmob to go out and fight to defend the new elite aka PTP.

If you were watching 2010 redmob actions which I believe is a valid precursor to the actions urged in this thread title you will know that their orders of burning Bangkok down and destroying the 'elites' was the most vague and self-contradictory call to arms ever. They were funded by and their armed uprising ordered by a billionaire corporate crook, who along with his entire family is ultra-rich and unbearably hi-so, and the instructions the redmob were given was to crush the 'elites'. No wonder they got confused!

And what is there for any observer, foreign or Thai to not understand about it. Many Thais who liked Thaksin at the start of his PMship now utterly loathe him. Even the redmob have reportedly got divisional issues with him recently.

Transposing these extremely mixed messages of 2010 (a billionaire crushing the elites) to the topic of red shirts being told to fight to defend PTP, it is easy to see the same confusion in the administration.

PTP are in power by democracy, but they seem unable to defend their policies or their bills using the tools of democracy - transparent debate among all elected officials as a duty not a choice, along with open free opinion-forming and response by the voters. Instead PTP have a 'talk to the hand' policy of silence and avoidance, then when that leads to outrage among the opposition and voters, the PTP resort to their only actual real manifesto which is 'call out the mob'.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Yunla

[Ferangled]

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin are wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

To be fair I believe it is human nature to give the impression that your opinions come from an intelligent, well balanced, researched and considered thought process coupled with in depth research of the "facts". In reality the vast majority simply adopt the views of those around them and blindly swallow whatever the media puts in front of them.

I don't think anyone would expect a candid honest reply from anyone regarding the real motivation behind their stance on this, when in truth for many it would simply be because that is what "my mate reckons" or "that's the weight of local opinion where I live".

Clearly some small minority of us have learned to sit back, remain sceptical and try to keep a balanced open mind on the 1% of reality that we are given glimpses of, but most just like to give off that impression, when in reality their thought process is very far from balanced and considered; more akin to the mentality of a herd of sheep.

It's quite ironic that we now have a thread where those who staunchly oppose the current Government and the powers behind them, are playing the numbers game as a valid way to prove their point but are so happy to ignore the weight of Thai public opinion on the matter.

What I find really worrying is how strong peoples convictions are when based on so little actual transparent information and so much deliberate miss-information...

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt..."

For goodness sake, every one is entitled to their opinion but when Neurofiend tells me why I dislike Thaksin and I tell him he is wrong there is a problem with that! Is Nurofiend in my head? Are you? And Neurofiend is not talking about the majority of the Thai population whose quality of life and comfort has been hurt, he is presuming to summize why FARANG dislike Thaksin, and as one of those farangs I am telling him that in my case he is wrong, ok!

You seem to be taking this very personally. No one has singled you out and claimed to know what you are thinking or what motivates you. Neurofiend simply stated:

"i truly believe that an aspect of why a lot of expats hate him is the affect that the turmoil had on them personally and to their own comfort in the country"

Note "a lot of ex pats", he didn't say "Gentleman Jim". Similarly I haven't tried to tell you what you are thinking just given an opinion on what I see as the reality behind most of these strong convictions, not yours in particular.

The fact that this has promoted such a knee jerk response suggests that this has struck a chord with you and that in itself is quite telling.

[Ferangled]

It's quite ironic that we now have a thread where those who staunchly oppose the current Government and the powers behind them, are playing the numbers game as a valid way to prove their point but are so happy to ignore the weight of Thai public opinion on the matter.

What I find really worrying is how strong peoples convictions are when based on so little actual transparent information and so much deliberate miss-information...

I can see your point but if you apply your above comment to the thread topic, I think you will find there is very little room for the mysterious vagueness or lack of insight into normal Thai people you are alluding to.

The fact is that in 2010 the same people ordered the redmob to go out and fight to overthrow the 'elites' which in agrarian populism terms means anyone who isn't basically a farmworker, are now ordering the redmob to go out and fight to defend the new elite aka PTP.

If you were watching 2010 redmob actions which I believe is a valid precursor to the actions urged in this thread title you will know that their orders of burning Bangkok down and destroying the 'elites' was the most vague and self-contradictory call to arms ever. They were funded by and their armed uprising ordered by a billionaire corporate crook, who along with his entire family is ultra-rich and unbearably hi-so, and the instructions the redmob were given was to crush the 'elites'. No wonder they got confused!

And what is there for any observer, foreign or Thai to not understand about it. Many Thais who liked Thaksin at the start of his PMship now utterly loathe him. Even the redmob have reportedly got divisional issues with him recently.

Transposing these extremely mixed messages of 2010 (a billionaire crushing the elites) to the topic of red shirts being told to fight to defend PTP, it is easy to see the same confusion in the administration.

PTP are in power by democracy, but they seem unable to defend their policies or their bills using the tools of democracy - transparent debate among all elected officials as a duty not a choice, along with open free opinion-forming and response by the voters. Instead PTP have a 'talk to the hand' policy of silence and avoidance, then when that leads to outrage among the opposition and voters, the PTP resort to their only actual real manifesto which is 'call out the mob'.

I think you overly simplify the events of 2010 and need to go back considerably further to see the whole picture. This has never been a one man tango but it serves well to vilify a single character as it draws attention away from the other players in this game.

It's amusing that you see Thaksin as "unbearably Hi-So" when much of these troubles are rooted in the fact that the established Thai "Hi-So" would never accept him as one of their own and resented everything he stood for. I'm not saying he's a whiter than white character, he clearly isn't, but he's simply one crook among many other better established crooks.

It serves the purposes of the really established Hi So in Thailand well to detract not just from their own shady dealings but from the real issue Thailand is facing: The long awaited empowerment and enlightenment of the masses and their mobilisation into politics.

It's inherently dangerous to ignore the real movement here and a real shame that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this. I'm sure it would be much better for the people of Thailand if he did simply disappear quietly into the night but understanding the backdrop and what made him so popular in the first place, sadly this isn't likely to happen.

This situation suits only those that serve themselves; all the while everyone's eyes remain on big, bad Thaksin, the rich continue to get richer and the poor marginalised. Thaksin is clearly not the saviour of the people that he would like to be seen as, he used them as a platform to reach his own goals, but would he ever have got this far if they hadn't been marginalised and abused for years previously?

Now are we to expect the reds to sit back and watch a repeat of the charade we have seen in Thailand previously, as their elected Government are removed and replaced with someone more palatable to the powers that be? Too many people are getting wise to how the system works and if some form of reconciliation isn't established soon I'm afraid we're going to see more violence on the streets.

[Thaddeus]

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin are wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

To be fair I believe it is human nature to give the impression that your opinions come from an intelligent, well balanced, researched and considered thought process coupled with in depth research of the "facts". In reality the vast majority simply adopt the views of those around them and blindly swallow whatever the media puts in front of them.

I don't think anyone would expect a candid honest reply from anyone regarding the real motivation behind their stance on this, when in truth for many it would simply be because that is what "my mate reckons" or "that's the weight of local opinion where I live".

Clearly some small minority of us have learned to sit back, remain sceptical and try to keep a balanced open mind on the 1% of reality that we are given glimpses of, but most just like to give off that impression, when in reality their thought process is very far from balanced and considered; more akin to the mentality of a herd of sheep.

It's quite ironic that we now have a thread where those who staunchly oppose the current Government and the powers behind them, are playing the numbers game as a valid way to prove their point but are so happy to ignore the weight of Thai public opinion on the matter.

What I find really worrying is how strong peoples convictions are when based on so little actual transparent information and so much deliberate miss-information...

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt..."

For goodness sake, every one is entitled to their opinion but when Neurofiend tells me why I dislike Thaksin and I tell him he is wrong there is a problem with that! Is Nurofiend in my head? Are you? And Neurofiend is not talking about the majority of the Thai population whose quality of life and comfort has been hurt, he is presuming to summize why FARANG dislike Thaksin, and as one of those farangs I am telling him that in my case he is wrong, ok!

You seem to be taking this very personally. No one has singled you out and claimed to know what you are thinking or what motivates you. Neurofiend simply stated:

"i truly believe that an aspect of why a lot of expats hate him is the affect that the turmoil had on them personally and to their own comfort in the country"

Note "a lot of ex pats", he didn't say "Gentleman Jim". Similarly I haven't tried to tell you what you are thinking just given an opinion on what I see as the reality behind most of these strong convictions, not yours in particular.

The fact that this has promoted such a knee jerk response suggests that this has struck a chord with you and that in itself is quite telling.

And then a lot of ex-pats told him he was wrong, which first he chose to ignore.

And you try telling me what my opinion is on any given subject, it will receive a similar reaction.

[GentlemanJim]

Ferangled

So i am having a knee jerk reaction and yunla is over simplifying things. I tell you what it would be far simpler if we label this and all the other threads " the world and what you think of it by Ferangled and Nurofiend thread". That way the rest of us can take the week off and you two can tell us what we all think and what is reality in the world. Granted it may not be good for the thread count but it will save many people from banging their heads against the wall..

[Ferangled]

And then a lot of ex-pats told him he was wrong, which first he chose to ignore.

And you try telling me what my opinion is on any given subject, it will receive a similar reaction.

You seem to entirely miss the point and are taking this subject far too personally.

No one is telling you what your opinion is. Just because you feel that your personal motivation doesn't match one that Nurofiend suggested was motivation for many, is proof of absolutely nothing other than you don't agree with his opinion. It doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

The irrationality with which you guys defend an opinion which requires no defence says more about your own sensibilities and lack of logical thought than it does anything else.

Ferangled

So i am having a knee jerk reaction and yunla is over simplifying things. I tell you what it would be far simpler if we label this and all the other threads " the world and what you think of it by Ferangled and Nurofiend thread". That way the rest of us can take the week off and you two can tell us what we all think and what is reality in the world. Granted it may not be good for the thread count but it will save many people from banging their heads against the wall..

That would be a fairly irrational approach and perhaps a more informed mind would question the actual content of the posts and give your own opinions rather than attacking someone else's point of view and acting childishly.

Everyone is fairly entitled to their own opinion, no one expects everyone to agree, but taking a differing opinion as a personal assault is quite ridiculous.

It's a fairly sad indication of your mindset if when faced with someone that disagrees with you or makes points that you object to, you prefer to bang your head against the wall or distract from the actual subject of debate than post up your opinions and support them.

Yunla makes some valid points and actually expresses her opinion and backs it up, I simply suggested I thought that particular post was overly simplifying the events so I posted my opinion and supported it. That's the essence of debating a subject. It doesn't make Yunla's opinion any less valid and I certainly don't take it as a personal attack because she expresses a different point of view to me.

The basis of your posts seems to be you're wrong because I don't agree with you... sorry if that doesn't wash with me or sway my sentiment in your favour, it just seems a very knee jerk and childish response.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Ferangled

[Yunla]

It's inherently dangerous to ignore the real movement here and a real shame that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this. I'm sure it would be much better for the people of Thailand if he did simply disappear quietly into the night but understanding the backdrop and what made him so popular in the first place, sadly this isn't likely to happen.

This situation suits only those that serve themselves; all the while everyone's eyes remain on big, bad Thaksin, the rich continue to get richer and the poor marginalised. Thaksin is clearly not the saviour of the people that he would like to be seen as, he used them as a platform to reach his own goals, but would he ever have got this far if they hadn't been marginalised and abused for years previously?

Ok I'm going to take you on up this one.The reason (in your words) "that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this" is because instead of him taking his stolen money and leaving the scene entirely, he came back and funded an armed uprising with his face on every Tshirt as far as the eye could see, an ugly shambolic uprising that cost the country a lot of money and over ninety lives. Then he got his sister to run for office, and then she brought a bill to parliament which has the central component of 'stopping Thaksin from going to jail and giving back Thaksin his criminal proceeds of 46bn'.

If Thaksin hadn't returned in 2010 with his murderous uprising and Yingluck hadn't thrust her brothers name and criminal past back into the very centre of government policy, we would all be saying 'I wonder what that old crook is up to' and laughing very loudly at people talking about his comeback. It is Thaksin and Yingluck - not me - who are ensuring as you say "that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this".

It is Yingluck and Thaksin who will not let the country forget Thaksin. It is not TV forumers or the rural poor or the Opposition who will not let the country forget Thaksin.

The PTP are in power today! Are the poorest dancing for joy? Are their lives so much better now thanks to Thaksin and sister having power? Can you see huge infrastructure projects underway that Yingluck has enacted for the poorest? Or can you see her and PTP's main policy-drive centred around washing the dirty bloody hands of her brother.

all the while everyone's eyes remain on big, bad Thaksin, the rich continue to get richer and the poor marginalised

You are right - one of the very rich is about to get 46bn richer!

Now are we to expect the reds to sit back and watch a repeat of the charade we have seen in Thailand previously, as their elected Government are removed and replaced with someone more palatable to the powers that be? Too many people are getting wise to how the system works and if some form of reconciliation isn't established soon I'm afraid we're going to see more violence on the streets.

The red elected government had policies that promised their voters lot of wonderful things and delivered none of those things except some downmarket computer tablets. The red elected prime minister is seen in parliament so rarely even the security guards probably have to ask her for I.D., and her actual input in policymaking and debate is so microscopic, that the Opposition are not demanding she be 'unseated' or to use your word "removed", the Opposition are demanding she shows up for work, engages in free unscripted debate, and answers the questions about these bills and if she believes in them she should stand her ground and debate it openly, and without having the Opposition shouted down or marginalised from the debating process.

She is absent from the debate and the Opposition are ignored in the debate. That is not a democracy, it is a scam.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Yunla

[Ferangled]

It's inherently dangerous to ignore the real movement here and a real shame that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this. I'm sure it would be much better for the people of Thailand if he did simply disappear quietly into the night but understanding the backdrop and what made him so popular in the first place, sadly this isn't likely to happen.

This situation suits only those that serve themselves; all the while everyone's eyes remain on big, bad Thaksin, the rich continue to get richer and the poor marginalised. Thaksin is clearly not the saviour of the people that he would like to be seen as, he used them as a platform to reach his own goals, but would he ever have got this far if they hadn't been marginalised and abused for years previously?

Ok I'm going to take you on up this one.The reason (in your words) " that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this" is because instead of him taking his stolen money and leaving the scene entirely is that he came back and funded an armed uprising with his face on every Tshirt as far as the eye could see, an ugly shambolic uprising that cost the country a lot of money and over ninety lives. Then he got his sister to run for office, and then she brought a bill to parliament which has the central component of 'stopping Thaksin from going to jail and giving back Thaksin his criminal proceeds of 46bn'.

If Thaksin hadn't returned in 2010 with his murderous uprising and Yingluck hadn't thrust her brothers name and criminal past back int the very centre of government policy, we would all be saying 'I wonder what that old crook is up to' and laughing very loudly at people talking about his comeback. It is Thaksin and Yingluck - not me - who are ensuring as you say "that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this".

It is Yingluck and Thaksin who will not let the country forget Thaksin. It is not TV forumers or the rural poor or the opposition who will not let the country forget Thaksin.

The PTP are in power today! Are the poorest dancing for joy? Are their lives so much better now thanks to Thaksin and sister having power? Can you see huge infrastructure projects underway that Yingluck has enacted for the poorest? Or can you see her and PTP's main policy-drive centred around washing the dirty bloody hands of her brother.

Now are we to expect the reds to sit back and watch a repeat of the charade we have seen in Thailand previously, as their elected Government are removed and replaced with someone more palatable to the powers that be? Too many people are getting wise to how the system works and if some form of reconciliation isn't established soon I'm afraid we're going to see more violence on the streets.

The red elected government had policies that promised their voters lot of wonderful things and delivered none of those things except some downmarket computer tablets. The red elected prime minister is seen in parliament so rarely even the security guards probably have to ask her for I.D., and her actual input in policymaking and debate is so microscopic, that the oppositiion are not demanding she be 'overthrown' or to use your word "removed", the opposition are demanding she shows up for work, engages in free unscripted debate, and answers the questions about these bills and if she believes in them she should stand her ground and debate it openly, and without having the opposition shouted down or marginalised from the debating process. She is absent from the debate and they are ignored in the debate. That is not a democracy, it is a scam.

Sorry but clearly they aren't my words Yunla, Thaksin didn't return to Thailand in 2010. I'm not going to defend the actions of Thaksin, Yingluck or the PTP MPs because I don't agree with so much of what they have done, but virtually all the points you make are as valid when asked of the previous administrations...

Were the poorest dancing for joy when Abhisit became PM?

Were their lives so much better thanks to Abhisit and the Dems having power?

Did you see huge infrastructure projects underway that Abhisit enacted for the poorest?

Or did you see him and the Dem's main policy-drive centred around absolving themselves of past actions and vilifying Thaksin and the PTP, whilst making due payment to the powers that instated him?

My point is that there is no single, convenient scape goat for the political troubles facing Thailand, it's a long string of corrupt, self serving politicians that have the blood of the people on their hands but it is much easier to simply lay the blame for all at Thaksin's feet and by holding him accountable the sinister dealings of others remains firmly in the shade.

Yes, this is a democracy and yes this is also a scam. Sadly the fact that the people have been duped by their chosen leaders doesn't change the fact that they democratically elected them.

Now it's time for change, to move on, the people know they have the power to vote their chosen into power, they just need someone worthy to stand behind... In my opinion this will not happen until people stop pointing fingers on both sides, which benefits no one and serves only to keep the same figures at the forefront of Thai politics.

[thaicbr]

It's inherently dangerous to ignore the real movement here and a real shame that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this. I'm sure it would be much better for the people of Thailand if he did simply disappear quietly into the night but understanding the backdrop and what made him so popular in the first place, sadly this isn't likely to happen.

This situation suits only those that serve themselves; all the while everyone's eyes remain on big, bad Thaksin, the rich continue to get richer and the poor marginalised. Thaksin is clearly not the saviour of the people that he would like to be seen as, he used them as a platform to reach his own goals, but would he ever have got this far if they hadn't been marginalised and abused for years previously?

Ok I'm going to take you on up this one.The reason (in your words) " that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this" is because instead of him taking his stolen money and leaving the scene entirely is that he came back and funded an armed uprising with his face on every Tshirt as far as the eye could see, an ugly shambolic uprising that cost the country a lot of money and over ninety lives. Then he got his sister to run for office, and then she brought a bill to parliament which has the central component of 'stopping Thaksin from going to jail and giving back Thaksin his criminal proceeds of 46bn'.

If Thaksin hadn't returned in 2010 with his murderous uprising and Yingluck hadn't thrust her brothers name and criminal past back int the very centre of government policy, we would all be saying 'I wonder what that old crook is up to' and laughing very loudly at people talking about his comeback. It is Thaksin and Yingluck - not me - who are ensuring as you say "that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this".

It is Yingluck and Thaksin who will not let the country forget Thaksin. It is not TV forumers or the rural poor or the opposition who will not let the country forget Thaksin.

The PTP are in power today! Are the poorest dancing for joy? Are their lives so much better now thanks to Thaksin and sister having power? Can you see huge infrastructure projects underway that Yingluck has enacted for the poorest? Or can you see her and PTP's main policy-drive centred around washing the dirty bloody hands of her brother.

Now are we to expect the reds to sit back and watch a repeat of the charade we have seen in Thailand previously, as their elected Government are removed and replaced with someone more palatable to the powers that be? Too many people are getting wise to how the system works and if some form of reconciliation isn't established soon I'm afraid we're going to see more violence on the streets.

The red elected government had policies that promised their voters lot of wonderful things and delivered none of those things except some downmarket computer tablets. The red elected prime minister is seen in parliament so rarely even the security guards probably have to ask her for I.D., and her actual input in policymaking and debate is so microscopic, that the oppositiion are not demanding she be 'overthrown' or to use your word "removed", the opposition are demanding she shows up for work, engages in free unscripted debate, and answers the questions about these bills and if she believes in them she should stand her ground and debate it openly, and without having the opposition shouted down or marginalised from the debating process. She is absent from the debate and they are ignored in the debate. That is not a democracy, it is a scam.

Sorry but clearly they aren't my words Yunla, Thaksin didn't return to Thailand in 2010. I'm not going to defend the actions of Thaksin, Yingluck or the PTP MPs because I don't agree with so much of what they have done, but virtually all the points you make are as valid when asked of the previous administrations...

Were the poorest dancing for joy when Abhisit became PM?

Were their lives so much better thanks to Abhisit and the Dems having power?

Did you see huge infrastructure projects underway that Abhisit enacted for the poorest?

Or did you see him and the Dem's main policy-drive centred around absolving themselves of past actions and vilifying Thaksin and the PTP, whilst making due payment to the powers that instated him?

My point is that there is no single, convenient scape goat for the political troubles facing Thailand, it's a long string of corrupt, self serving politicians that have the blood of the people on their hands but it is much easier to simply lay the blame for all at Thaksin's feet and by holding him accountable the sinister dealings of others remains firmly in the shade.

Yes, this is a democracy and yes this is also a scam. Sadly the fact that the people have been duped by their chosen leaders doesn't change the fact that they democratically elected them.

Now it's time for change, to move on, the people know they have the power to vote their chosen into power, they just need someone worthy to stand behind... In my opinion this will not happen until people stop pointing fingers on both sides, which benefits no one and serves only to keep the same figures at the forefront of Thai politics.

Abhisit's government gave the people free education upto M3 they also gave an allowance for uniforms and books . They streamlined health to be free NOT 30b a visit.

Just two that I can remember.

Oh and Phua Thai scrapped the uniform /book allowance to pay for computer tablets. They also want to reinstate 30b per hospital visit....why..... because that was thaksins idea. so they (phua Thai) are doing well.. don't you think.

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