Manchester United

[cowman1]

Well, how about from an Italian paper?

Manchester United were widely praised, with La Reppublica breathlessly delighting in "un magnifico Carrick", while Inter's performance was not so well received.

"United were missing half a defence but with Adriano and Ibrahimovic always with their backs to goal Inter made it easy even for Vidic's reserve," said the Corriere dello Sport. "Inter need Patrick Vieira to return for the second leg. Muntari is not good enough for this level. With the Frenchman the situation could improve."

"This was an intense match, full of danger and suffering for Inter, who were kept on the ropes by a stronger and more dangerous squad," said the Gazzetta dello Sport. "Ronaldo was a constant threat. His speed was hard to match and when Davide Santon succeeded, the fans cheered as if their team had scored."

The Roma-based La Repubblica, Italy's second-biggest selling newspaper, proved Inter's harshest critics. "Ferguson yet again failed to beat Mourinho – this was their 13th meeting, with a single win for the Scottish maestro – but that was the only consolation for Inter from an evening when everything seemed negative ... there was overwhelming evidence of the technical and tactical superiority of the European champions ... the first half was terrible ... the only downside for United was their failure to score ... Inter returned to their changing room stunned by this display of great football ... Manchester gave the impression of being superior to Inter in every area." Crikey.

By the way, does anyone here know if The Carling Cup Final will be on UBC??

[JacknDanny]

Tactical match as expected although several good chances for us in the first half. Inter's goalie is absolutely first class.

Not thrilled we didn't take all our chances and put it to bed but a nil nil draw is ok to head back to OT with.

Don't know what game Jose (did I hear Martin T say heir apparent to SAF?) Mourinho saw but a draw was not a fair result.

Good news is we did it without Tevez and Rooney sans 10 mins at the end. CR was scary at times - Ibra the best player in the world Jose? :

Jimmy lad, I really am not sure how much you watch football, and how much you understand it

I have gone on record to say that Utd will qualify comfortably, I still stand by that.

In my opinion Utd earned a comfortable draw, but a draw WAS a fair result. Inter were by far the better team in the 2nd half. Overall possession was 50/50.

Only someone looking through red tinted specs, or someone who knows naff all about football, would say Utd deserved to win.!

But I expect Utd to win by a couple of goals in the 2nd leg.

well JD, i am not sure if you really want to get into a who's gotta bigger dick contest cause first of all I am not on your little City thread and secondly, I would bet I watch much more football than you. I said the other night we were lucky to beat Blackburn.

Anyways, regarding the match last night, Inter may have had more possession in the 2nd half but the difference between you and I is probably the fact that I count legitimate scoring chances as a measure of would have / should have and on that note Milan had 2 and we had 7.

don't take my word for it, read any of your UK papers for a 2nd opinion. then again you probably wouldn't count CR's injury time free kick from just outside the box as scoring chance.

Your first paragraph is simply ludicrous. You have no idea. It would be physically impossible for you to watch more football than me Believe me, its my business watching football

Re your second paragraph.......let me give you an example. Fulham vs West Brom, a game that Fulham deserved to win. An overwhelming possession advantage, hit the woodwork 4 times , scored 2 goals, totally outplayed the opposition. That is what I consider 'deserved to win'

Now for me Utd did not look like losing, but on the balance a draw was fair. If you had said you believed Utd shaded it , fair enough, but you turn round and say Mourinho is on another planet for saying a draw was fair....... thats just silly

Lastly, what do you mean 'your uk papers'? I live in Bangkok, and the last thing I would do to learn about a game is to read a uk paper :jerk:

Your last sentence says it all mate. If you look to the Bangkok Post / Nation for your sporting news and two-day old highlights taking off the wire....

But using your logic, I guess you would say City deserved to win against LP last week too. The nice thing about having City fans around (bj excluded) by default everyone else looks smarter.

You might be a nice lad in real life, but you do come across as a bit of a K H on here, especially when you claim to be a Utd fan yet have never been to OT

But to answer your 'points'.

No I do not rely on BP or Nation to get my sporting news. Never read them

Secondly, No City did not desrve to beat Liverpool, nor did they deserve to lose. A draw was a fair result.

Last night Liverpool deserved to beat Real Madrid.

You see, thats how it works

[StevieH]

Och!!!!!!!!! has you can see by the pic I used to go regular but what is this sh*t your not a fan if you v'e never been to O/T not the fans fault were so popular.

Has every city fan been to Eastlands ????????????

you're not a real supporter of the club if you've never been to watch them play a home match. you're a follower or a fan, and there's a big difference.

[Mali1964]

Och!!!!!!!!! has you can see by the pic I used to go regular but what is this sh*t your not a fan if you v'e never been to O/T not the fans fault were so popular.

Has every city fan been to Eastlands ????????????

you're not a real supporter of the club if you've never been to watch them play a home match. you're a follower or a fan, and there's a big difference.

How many scousers u think would agree with you on that point? I know many that have never been to Anfield that I know so much about the club but they are poor so never get the chance to go.

I think its utter ruibish no Home game no real Supporter.

[StevieH]

How many scousers u think would agree with you on that point? I know many that have never been to Anfield that I know so much about the club but they are poor so never get the chance to go.

I think its utter ruibish no Home game no real Supporter.

pretty much all the ones i know would because they're rational and reasonable. you can't have the same emotional attachment to a team if you've never seen them play live. it's not a criticism, it's a simple fact.

[bkkjames]

How many scousers u think would agree with you on that point? I know many that have never been to Anfield that I know so much about the club but they are poor so never get the chance to go.

I think its utter ruibish no Home game no real Supporter.

pretty much all the ones i know would because they're rational and reasonable. you can't have the same emotional attachment to a team if you've never seen them play live. it's not a criticism, it's a simple fact.

wow, win one game in madrid and it really goes to your head, wonder if you will be so brash when you draw your next league game.

never seen them live means I am a supporter and not a fan is that what you are saying? I used to value your input but statements like that make you sound like Chelsea supporter - take off your tattoo and come down off your high horse. Half the fans at OT and the KOP are seasons ticket holders because either the company bought them, they were given them or they think its fashionable. Millions of passionate fans supporters / followers (call us what you like) care more about the team than a great number of those that moan and groan from up close when the team isn't winning by 2 at halftime.

You have two yank owners who go to your games (and thus have been to Anfield) - do you think thousands of LP fans in Thailand who have watched the team since the glory days but have never been to a game would share your view?

Edited February 26, 2009 by bkkjames

[StevieH]

wow, win one game in madrid and it really goes to your head, wonder if you will be so brash when you draw your next league game.

never seen them live means I am a supporter and not a fan is that what you are saying? I used to value your input but statements like that make you sound like Chelsea supporter - take off your tattoo and come down off your high horse. Half the fans at OT and the KOP are seasons ticket holders because either the company bought them, they were given them or they think its fashionable. Millions of passionate fans supporters / followers (call us what you like) care more about the team than a great number of those that moan and groan from up close when the team isn't winning by 2 at halftime.

You have two yank owners who go to your games (and thus have been to Anfield) - do you think thousands of LP fans in Thailand who have watched the team since the glory days but have never been to a game would share your view?

sorry if i touched a nerve, james. but to address your points in order:

1. the madrid result has nothing to do with it. i held this view last week, last year and i'll still hold it next year.

2. nope, other way around. it makes you a fan and not a supporter. you follow the team and like them but you have never actively 'supported' them as that by definition means being in the stadium to cheer them on and sing.

3. half the fans at anfield most certainly are not season ticket holders thanks to companies, gifts or because it's 'fashionable'. in fact that's so incorrect as to be offensive and really underlines how little you know about 'supporting' a club.

4. i have absolutely no problem with clubs having followers around the world and spending their hard-earned money on club merchandise, i don't mind it at all. but they absolutely cannot, by definition, have an emotional attachment with something they have never seen live. it's impossible. as i said before, it's not a criticism, it's a simple fact. there are fans, there are followers and there are supporters. they're very different.

[bkkjames]

sorry if i touched a nerve, james. but to address your points in order:

1. the madrid result has nothing to do with it. i held this view last week, last year and i'll still hold it next year.

Fine, you are entitled to this narrow view

2. nope, other way around. it makes you a fan and not a supporter. you follow the team and like them but you have never actively 'supported' them as that by definition means being in the stadium to cheer them on and sing.

Guess that's why LP is a borderline small club

3. half the fans at anfield most certainly are not season ticket holders thanks to companies, gifts or because it's 'fashionable'. in fact that's so incorrect as to be offensive and really underlines how little you know about 'supporting' a club.

If you want to start (you did) with insults we can mate - your definition of a supporter is def different than mine. Just because I haven't had my photo in front of OT doesn't make me anyless a fan/supporter. I follow the team 365, watch every game no matter the day of the week, competition or god awful hour, am on the websites reading the news daily, I spend too much of my time battling it out with narrow minded LP supporters on here - that alone should qualify me for "Elitest Status". But under your terms, if I hop on a plane and drink a few beers and sing glory glory at one game, and sign up for the UTD flag waving club I am a true SUPPORTER. You know how rich Thais have done this sort of thing, flown to Anfield so they can say they saw one game live? Your kind of people no doubt. True Supporters who couldn't tell you if Gerrard is injured or not.

4. i have absolutely no problem with clubs having followers around the world and spending their hard-earned money on club merchandise, i don't mind it at all. but they absolutely cannot, by definition, have an emotional attachment with something they have never seen live. it's impossible. as i said before, it's not a criticism, it's a simple fact. there are fans, there are followers and there are supporters. they're very different.

I watch every game live on TV, sorry this isnt the 1960's anymore Stevie. If I fly to HK in the summer and watch the reserves play does that count ? Anyways your words remind me of Monty Python skit,,, I remember when it when we were so poor, we had to sleop in a box. Like the hardships and stripes earned by our fathers are anymore hard than the one's we are earning now ourselves.

Edited February 26, 2009 by bkkjames

[rixalex]

4. i have absolutely no problem with clubs having followers around the world and spending their hard-earned money on club merchandise, i don't mind it at all. but they absolutely cannot, by definition, have an emotional attachment with something they have never seen live. it's impossible. as i said before, it's not a criticism, it's a simple fact. there are fans, there are followers and there are supporters. they're very different.

Not sure where you are going with all this Stevie - trying to define some fans as being somehow more important - at least that's what you imply. At the end of the day, all fans play their part - some directly, others less so. To try and separate fans into groups of who is most worthy and who has most emotional attachment just seems all a bit churlish and silly.

I spent considerable time and money traveling half way round the world to visit the grounds of my club last year. Does that make me a truer fan than say perhaps a Thai chap who spends a large chunk of his monthly salary paying for True Visions so that he can watch the team play every week - who stays up until 4 or 5 a.m. despite starting a 15 hour shift in a factory at 6.am. (and believe me these people exist - i've met them)? Of course not - I just had the oppurtunity. I'm lucky, others aren't so.

Fans come in all shapes and sizes (both literally and metaphorically). No doubt the majority of season ticket holders of a club are very dedicated and passionate about their support. No doubt also there are some less commited and just there because they get free tickets. Granting them all with some special "supporter" status and denying it to everyone else is daft and does a disservice to millions of fans around the world who your comments suggest are less important.

[StevieH]

sorry if i touched a nerve, james. but to address your points in order:

1. the madrid result has nothing to do with it. i held this view last week, last year and i'll still hold it next year.

Fine, you are entitled to this narrow view

2. nope, other way around. it makes you a fan and not a supporter. you follow the team and like them but you have never actively 'supported' them as that by definition means being in the stadium to cheer them on and sing.

Guess that's why LP is a borderline small club

3. half the fans at anfield most certainly are not season ticket holders thanks to companies, gifts or because it's 'fashionable'. in fact that's so incorrect as to be offensive and really underlines how little you know about 'supporting' a club.

If you want to start (you did) with insults we can mate - your definition of a supporter is def different than mine. Just because I haven't had my photo in front of OT doesn't make me anyless a fan/supporter. I follow the team 365, watch every game no matter the day of the week, competition or god awful hour, am on the websites reading the news daily, I spend too much of my time battling it out with narrow minded LP supporters on here - that alone should qualify me for "Elitest Status". But under your terms, if I hop on a plane and drink a few beers and sing glory glory at one game, and sign up for the UTD flag waving club I am a true SUPPORTER. You know how rich Thais have done this sort of thing, flown to Anfield so they can say they saw one game live? Your kind of people no doubt. True Supporters who couldn't tell you if Gerrard is injured or not.

4. i have absolutely no problem with clubs having followers around the world and spending their hard-earned money on club merchandise, i don't mind it at all. but they absolutely cannot, by definition, have an emotional attachment with something they have never seen live. it's impossible. as i said before, it's not a criticism, it's a simple fact. there are fans, there are followers and there are supporters. they're very different.

I watch every game live on TV, sorry this isnt the 1960's anymore Stevie. If I fly to HK in the summer and watch the reserves play does that count ? Anyways your words remind me of Monty Python skit,,, I remember when it when we were so poor, we had to sleop in a box. Like the hardships and stripes earned by our fathers are anymore hard than the one's we are earning now ourselves.

1. it isn't a narrow view among match-going fans, james. and as i've said at least twice now, i'm not having a pop, it's just impossible to claim to be a 'supporter' when you've never 'supported' the club. never 'supported' means never having sung the songs on the terraces, never eaten the crap pies, never seen your heroes in the flesh from ten yards away, never jumped up and down hugging complete strangers as you've just cheered and sung the team to a last minute victory in the stadium. if you've never done this, you are a follower, not a supporter. and there is a difference.

2. don't be daft.

3. see this is where we're crossing wires, i do not have a problem with fans / followers at all. they're entitled to follow the club as much as they like, but they are not supporters. supporters go to matches james. fans / followers observe from a distance, and however emotionally engaged they might feel, they cannot claim the same allegiance that comes from being a match-goer. because having never been in the stadium they don't really get it. it's not even about levels of fan, i'm not having a go about that. i know a girl in singapore who spends more on going to two matches at anfield per season than season-ticket holders do in a whole year. i really admire her dedication. but everything you list in your third point makes you a fan, not a supporter. and again, i have to underline this, i am not using this as something to criticise you for man. it's absolutely each to their own but you can't seriously claim to have as emotional an attachment to united as someone who goes to every game there. it's just not possible.

4. no, it isn't the 60s any more. back then there was no such thing as a 'global fanbase', there was no televised football and clubs' supporters either walked to the ground or took the bus. times change. i'm happy that people around the world like following liverpool, as i'm sure you are that they do united. but the point still stands, if you haven't seen the team play live then you are missing an essential ingredient, probably the key, defining ingredient, of being a football supporter. emotion.

[StevieH]

Not sure where you are going with all this Stevie - trying to define some fans as being somehow more important - at least that's what you imply. At the end of the day, all fans play their part - some directly, others less so. To try and separate fans into groups of who is most worthy and who has most emotional attachment just seems all a bit churlish and silly.

I spent considerable time and money traveling half way round the world to visit the grounds of my club last year. Does that make me a truer fan than say perhaps a Thai chap who spends a large chunk of his monthly salary paying for True Visions so that he can watch the team play every week - who stays up until 4 or 5 a.m. despite starting a 15 hour shift in a factory at 6.am. (and believe me these people exist - i've met them)? Of course not - I just had the oppurtunity. I'm lucky, others aren't so.

Fans come in all shapes and sizes (both literally and metaphorically). No doubt the majority of season ticket holders of a club are very dedicated and passionate about their support. No doubt also there are some less commited and just there because they get free tickets. Granting them all with some special "supporter" status and denying it to everyone else is daft and does a disservice to millions of fans around the world who your comments suggest are less important.

i'm not particularly sure where i'm going with it any more myself rixalex, and it's not me trying to make out that one kind of football fan is more important than another. it's just that i've always had a real problem understanding how some football fans have this passionate devotion to something they've never seen in the flesh. there's an emotional connection missing. it's not about worthiness either, i don't judge fans at all, i just can't get my head around how someone can be completely dedicated to something and besotted by something when there isn't any real connection.

your second paragraph, it makes you a different kind of supporter, yeah. you're lucky to be in the position to be able to do what you do, but you did it nevertheless. there's plenty who would claim to be supporters who are wealthy enough to do it but would not. your dedication does you credit.

fans come in all flavours, yeah, and there are some complete and utter shithouses with season tickets at anfield. there are horrible, bigoted, racist bastards who follow liverpool at away games. and again, i've never said that a certain type of fan is less important, they're all more than welcome and i know well that they spend their hard-earned money on following the club. it's just the emotional connection that i struggle to come to terms with. perhaps it's to do with me having grown up through the globalisation of the game.

[bkkjames]

Stevie, I am not going to continue this exept to say, if we were on a pitch together I will show you the difference between a 'fan of the week' and someone with an emotional connection as I tackle you hard and gladly take a red card for the team.

[StevieH]

james, one of my specialities on the pitch used to be goading opponents into doing something foolish.

however i promise i am not doing that in this instance, i'm genuinely interested in what makes fans pick teams to follow so passionately when they have never seen or will never be able to see the team play live.

[MSingh]

james, one of my specialities on the pitch used to be goading opponents into doing something foolish.

A Khao Pad Moo says that i could get you sent off within 20 mins Stevie, if ( which we probably won't ) played together ??

[bkkjames]

james, one of my specialities on the pitch used to be goading opponents into doing something foolish.

however i promise i am not doing that in this instance, i'm genuinely interested in what makes fans pick teams to follow so passionately when they have never seen or will never be able to see the team play live.

made it clear many times before (although I really don't think I need to justify it or stamp of approval from a scouser). first got exposed to English football in 1994...liked the way United played...followed them ever since.

as for specialities, no problem in baiting me stevie, when I tear apart your knees and stand over you while you lay there in pain, it will be when we are up 3-0 where have I seen that before?

[mrbojangles]

when I tear apart your knees and stand over you while you lay there in pain,

Ah, i get it now. It's all become clear, you're a Rugby Supporter

Edited February 27, 2009 by mrbojangles

[StevieH]

james, one of my specialities on the pitch used to be goading opponents into doing something foolish.

however i promise i am not doing that in this instance, i'm genuinely interested in what makes fans pick teams to follow so passionately when they have never seen or will never be able to see the team play live.

made it clear many times before (although I really don't think I need to justify it or stamp of approval from a scouser). first got exposed to English football in 1994...liked the way United played...followed them ever since.

as for specialities, no problem in baiting me stevie, when I tear apart your knees and stand over you while you lay there in pain, it will be when we are up 3-0 where have I seen that before?

certainly wasn't this season. christ, ryan babel scored the winner against you lot and he's crap.

[StevieH]

when I tear apart your knees and stand over you while you lay there in pain,

Ah, i get it now. It's all become clear, you're a Rugby Supporter

[bkkjames]

when I tear apart your knees and stand over you while you lay there in pain,

Ah, i get it now. It's all become clear, you're a Rugby Supporter

No, Roy Keane is my cousin. Seen that before mate?

[MSingh]

when I tear apart your knees and stand over you while you lay there in pain,

Ah, i get it now. It's all become clear, you're a Rugby Supporter

No, Roy Keane is my cousin. Seen that before mate?

Whoa, touche Jimbo, touche...

Anyway, Incey number 2, Incey Incey number 2...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...ited-shirt.html

[bkkjames]

when I tear apart your knees and stand over you while you lay there in pain,

Ah, i get it now. It's all become clear, you're a Rugby Supporter

No, Roy Keane is my cousin. Seen that before mate?

Whoa, touche Jimbo, touche...

Anyway, Incey number 2, Incey Incey number 2...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...ited-shirt.html

Could be worse I guess (Ryangiggs Air)

[bkkjames]

as a follow up does anyone else find something a bit strange about the following:

Born in Malaysia, entrepeneur Fernandes has carved an image for himself as Asia's answer to Richard Branson.

With the launch of AirAsia came the slogan 'Now everyone can fly', and with the company already a partner of United and in the midst of a three-year deal to sponsor referees, he is no stranger to the Barclays Premier League.

And with Asian markets devouring all things football, should Fernandes desire to sponsor United, surely the £20m a-year outlay will really take off.

I wonder if the bolded portion is part of the negotiation?

[rixalex]

i'm not particularly sure where i'm going with it any more myself rixalex, and it's not me trying to make out that one kind of football fan is more important than another. it's just that i've always had a real problem understanding how some football fans have this passionate devotion to something they've never seen in the flesh. there's an emotional connection missing. it's not about worthiness either, i don't judge fans at all, i just can't get my head around how someone can be completely dedicated to something and besotted by something when there isn't any real connection.

your second paragraph, it makes you a different kind of supporter, yeah. you're lucky to be in the position to be able to do what you do, but you did it nevertheless. there's plenty who would claim to be supporters who are wealthy enough to do it but would not. your dedication does you credit.

fans come in all flavours, yeah, and there are some complete and utter shithouses with season tickets at anfield. there are horrible, bigoted, racist bastards who follow liverpool at away games. and again, i've never said that a certain type of fan is less important, they're all more than welcome and i know well that they spend their hard-earned money on following the club. it's just the emotional connection that i struggle to come to terms with. perhaps it's to do with me having grown up through the globalisation of the game.

Ok Stevie. To a degree i get what you are saying and i liked some of the points you made, particularly the bit about the "utter shithouses" - yes sadly they do exist and i share your feelings.

Concerning the supporter/fan discussion though... the problem is that the stand-point from which you are making your argument that there are different types of fans, is that of one who has been to the grounds of your club. That's a problem because it's only ever going to look like you are trying to differentiate yourself - or to put another way, to put yourself on a pedestal - and no matter how many times you insist you are not trying make one type of fan more important than another, that's always exactly how it'll appear - especially to those who haven't / aren't able to visit the grounds.

And you say you can't get your head around people becoming besotted and devoted to something they've never seen in the flesh... well it might be hard to understand but the truth is it does happen - and there are numerous examples of this everywhere in life.

You might argue that experiencing something first hand and with your own eyes adds to the feelings you have, but it's just an extra dimension, nothing more. That's certainly how i feel having now visited Old Trafford. I no longer have to imagine the grounds - i have my own memories to draw from. Has it changed my status as a fan though? Absolutely not.

[StevieH]

i'm not particularly sure where i'm going with it any more myself rixalex, and it's not me trying to make out that one kind of football fan is more important than another. it's just that i've always had a real problem understanding how some football fans have this passionate devotion to something they've never seen in the flesh. there's an emotional connection missing. it's not about worthiness either, i don't judge fans at all, i just can't get my head around how someone can be completely dedicated to something and besotted by something when there isn't any real connection.

your second paragraph, it makes you a different kind of supporter, yeah. you're lucky to be in the position to be able to do what you do, but you did it nevertheless. there's plenty who would claim to be supporters who are wealthy enough to do it but would not. your dedication does you credit.

fans come in all flavours, yeah, and there are some complete and utter shithouses with season tickets at anfield. there are horrible, bigoted, racist bastards who follow liverpool at away games. and again, i've never said that a certain type of fan is less important, they're all more than welcome and i know well that they spend their hard-earned money on following the club. it's just the emotional connection that i struggle to come to terms with. perhaps it's to do with me having grown up through the globalisation of the game.

Ok Stevie. To a degree i get what you are saying and i liked some of the points you made, particularly the bit about the "utter shithouses" - yes sadly they do exist and i share your feelings.

Concerning the supporter/fan discussion though... the problem is that the stand-point from which you are making your argument that there are different types of fans, is that of one who has been to the grounds of your club. That's a problem because it's only ever going to look like you are trying to differentiate yourself - or to put another way, to put yourself on a pedestal - and no matter how many times you insist you are not trying make one type of fan more important than another, that's always exactly how it'll appear - especially to those who haven't / aren't able to visit the grounds.

And you say you can't get your head around people becoming besotted and devoted to something they've never seen in the flesh... well it might be hard to understand but the truth is it does happen - and there are numerous examples of this everywhere in life.

You might argue that experiencing something first hand and with your own eyes adds to the feelings you have, but it's just an extra dimension, nothing more. That's certainly how i feel having now visited Old Trafford. I no longer have to imagine the grounds - i have my own memories to draw from. Has it changed my status as a fan though? Absolutely not.

rix, you're right of course. reading it back i realise that it does seem like i'm differentiating between types of fan, but i'm not doing it to have a pop or be critical, i swear. there are many liverpool fans who go to far more games than i do who i consider less of a fan than me - those that go to every home and away match and do nothing but moan for example, rather than singing and getting behind the team.

i guess it's just a hard one for me to understand having been lucky enough to grow up in liverpool and be able to go the match when i liked. i've never seen bob dylan live but still consider myself an enormous fan for example. i'll try to stop sounding like i'm having a go at the fan who has never seen the team live, because i'm really not. just trying to understand where their devotion comes from i guess.

(apart from james who was about two miles away from old trafford and still didn't go there, he's fair game).

[bkkjames]

I guess that's where we differ stevie, had there be a game - I would have paid for the best ticket, but I also don't need photos of me at OT or MU banners around my house to feel like I am special.

As I sit in soi 8 bar, I see a guy with a Utd cap on, and I wonder if he is as true to the team as I? Unlikely and I am comfortable with that.

Now when my son is born in a few months time, there is a chance that the first shirt he puts on may have a red devil emblem on it.

[StevieH]

I guess that's where we differ stevie, had there be a game - I would have paid for the best ticket, but I also don't need photos of me at OT or MU banners around my house to feel like I am special.

As I sit in soi 8 bar, I see a guy with a Utd cap on, and I wonder if he is as true to the team as I? Unlikely and I am comfortable with that.

Now when my son is born in a few months time, there is a chance that the first shirt he puts on may have a red devil emblem on it.

again jim, it's not about being 'special'. just about having experienced what it's really like. but hey, if and when you get the chance to go, i know you'll love it and most likely sing your arse off.

congrats mate. what's the planned name? ryan or alex? please don't go for 'wayne'.

[rixalex]

rix, you're right of course. reading it back i realise that it does seem like i'm differentiating between types of fan, but i'm not doing it to have a pop or be critical, i swear. there are many liverpool fans who go to far more games than i do who i consider less of a fan than me - those that go to every home and away match and do nothing but moan for example, rather than singing and getting behind the team.

i guess it's just a hard one for me to understand having been lucky enough to grow up in liverpool and be able to go the match when i liked. i've never seen bob dylan live but still consider myself an enormous fan for example. i'll try to stop sounding like i'm having a go at the fan who has never seen the team live, because i'm really not. just trying to understand where their devotion comes from i guess.

(apart from james who was about two miles away from old trafford and still didn't go there, he's fair game).

OK mate. Fair do's. I get you (and 100% with you on the Bob Dylan too!)

(As for James being a dirty Northerner?! Really - is that true? I thought he was a Southern poofter like me

)

[bkkjames]

Blackpool and belfast south?

As for my future united midfielder, scolesy has a nice ring to it, quiet and deadly, unlike me who is just loud and deadly

[rixalex]

Blackpool and belfast south?

Don't know what that makes you mate - but i'm sure someone can think of an insult

Stevie you there?

[BIGTOE3]

Blackpool and belfast south?

Don't know what that makes you mate - but i'm sure someone can think of an insult

Stevie you there?

BT