Engine Overhaul Done Help !

[thaicbr]

It is confusing both clynders will fire but not in unison a designed

Thanks, thanks fo the burp tip. I have been looking all over the shop manual on that one,

Ray. I had the over heating problem similar to yours it turned out a new radiator cured it. The Rad had collapsed. As for the firing of cylinders ....not a clue:D

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

[sirchai]

Take the hose off that comes from the water pump when the engine's cold,start your engine and you'll see if your pump is working.

If you can get this dome and your cooling system works, you still have a big problem to solve. It seems that both cylinders are not running well,

right?

I guess you'll find SOMEBODY who can check your timing. If your timing is okay, take the spark plugs out. Check your compression. You should have at least 10 on both cylinders.

If your compression and timing are okay, put some new spark plugs in, check the spark plug wires as well. Sparks could go to the Chassis which will already cause serious problems running well.

It's not rocket science dude, hope you can get this checked. Please keep us updated....

Edited June 9, 2012 by sirchai

[sirchai]

First, I wish that people would provide some help to those who they are asking for help from. Say a picture of your spark plugs after a short ride.

But to answer your question, yes having your timing off can increase heat and (shockingly) not allow your engine to run. Since every single camshaft I've ever seen has an index mark, pull the cam cover and bump the engine (hit the starter in little increments or put it in gear and push the bike) around until the the marks are lined up...or not.

**edit**

If you think one cylinder is not firing, unplug the sparkplug lead and try and start the engine. If the engine starts, turn it off, reconnect the lead and do the same for the other plug. If the engine starts both ways you know that both cylinders are working.

Unplug? I hope not more guys come up with such an advice! All you need to do is hold your hand on the cylinder outside when engine's running. Even not being a mechanic, you'll "feel" if both run.

A picture of spark plugs after a short ride says nothing, if the riming's wrong, or valves not adjusted.

Edited June 9, 2012 by sirchai

[dave_boo]

First, I wish that people would provide some help to those who they are asking for help from. Say a picture of your spark plugs after a short ride.

But to answer your question, yes having your timing off can increase heat and (shockingly) not allow your engine to run. Since every single camshaft I've ever seen has an index mark, pull the cam cover and bump the engine (hit the starter in little increments or put it in gear and push the bike) around until the the marks are lined up...or not.

**edit**

If you think one cylinder is not firing, unplug the sparkplug lead and try and start the engine. If the engine starts, turn it off, reconnect the lead and do the same for the other plug. If the engine starts both ways you know that both cylinders are working.

Unplug? I hope not more guys come up with such an advice! All you need to do is hold your hand on the cylinder outside when engine's running. Even not being a mechanic, you'll "feel" if both run.

A picture of spark plugs after a short ride says nothing, if the riming's wrong, or valves not adjusted.

Ummmh, considering the OP's apparent mechanical abilities (not that there's anything wrong with being deficient there; I'm sure there is an area of expertiese for him) this quick and dirty test quickly ruled out his thoughts that one cylinder wasn't firing. While a multitude of more expensive and difficult to perform exams would have netted him the same answer, simply unplugging one cylinder at a time and even just bumping it over to see if it attempted to start got him off that train of thought.

While you or I would be able to hold our hand on the cylinder wall and quickly tell whether or not the engine is running, if someone's mechanical aptitude is so low they do not know how to check if there is water flow just exactly how do you explain, over the internet, the difference between a compression or exhaust stroke and an actual combustion event? I suppose you could state that letting it heat up and feeling if one is way cooler than the other would work...but if someone burned their hand on the cylinder that wouldn't be very nice would it?

The pull the plug and photo it was an attempt to provide background as to whether the bike was running lean, misfiring, pre-detonating, if the timing is similar (my understanding is no balancing the carbs as there is only one), etc. There's a wealth of information on them there plugs; plus had one cylinder not been running it would have been pre-eminently obvious that it wasn't as it would have been superwet with fuel.

It would have been a bit better if you asked why I suggested what I did rather than making assumptions. But you can go ahead and give snarky comments...the forum is used to it from others by now.

[dave_boo]

It is confusing both clynders will fire but not in unison a designed

Thanks, thanks fo the burp tip. I have been looking all over the shop manual on that one,

They are not supposed to fire in unison. There is no way they could fire in unison as it is a V-Twin; for that to happen both cylinders would have to be on the same plane and the crankshaft would have to be provisioned for both cylinders to be TDC at the same time. There is an offset to their firing order. There's many reasons to have a certain offset. Triumph uses a certain offset on their cruisers to get more of a 'lump' sound. Honda's new 700 models use an offset to make it sound better. There's at least one inline 4 who uses less of an offset to increase traction coming out of corners.

[floridaguy]

Ok, let's get back to basics. What makes you say it is running hot? Does it shut down after riding it? Does steam come out? Does water pour out of the coolant reserve tank if you have one? What is going on? Do you have a temperature gauge, and if so what does it say when you think the bike is hot? Some bikes can run hot, and get over 100 degrees C, but it is normal for the bike. Usually, if a bike overheats, it just shuts down for a few minutes. If you are relying just on the temp gauge, maybe the gauge is faulty. Also, as I mentioned above, maybe the thermostat is faulty. Also, Thailand is hot. I had a v-twin like yours that just ran hot. I installed a larger fan on the radiator and a manual switch so that I could turn the fan on anytime I wanted, and I never had a problem overheating again. Now, I didn't just mask an underlying problem, I live in Bangkok, and the bike would overheat in traffic sometimes. Also, do you have oil flowing? If your oil is not circulating, your engine will run hot also.

[dave_boo]

I concur about the gauges/electrical issues. He stated that the bike has an idiot light rather than a proper gauge. Since it is apparent that whomever worked on the bike previously was not up to snuff, perhaps it could be something as simple as a faulty/non-existent ground? Perhaps the OP could chime in and let us know if the light is on constantly or if it comes on after a while?

[ray23]

It is confusing both clynders will fire but not in unison a designed

Thanks, thanks fo the burp tip. I have been looking all over the shop manual on that one,

They are not supposed to fire in unison. There is no way they could fire in unison as it is a V-Twin; for that to happen both cylinders would have to be on the same plane and the crankshaft would have to be provisioned for both cylinders to be TDC at the same time. There is an offset to their firing order. There's many reasons to have a certain offset. Triumph uses a certain offset on their cruisers to get more of a 'lump' sound. Honda's new 700 models use an offset to make it sound better. There's at least one inline 4 who uses less of an offset to increase traction coming out of corners.

Ya that one was bad terminlogy. They are not firing properly would be more accurate. Yep no mechaninic that's a fact

It acts like it's running on half power. Shakes like hell. You can feel the exhaust on both tail pipes. I'm picking up more here then I ever could from the shop manual.

I willing to bet your right on the ground wire. Spark plug wires a definte possibilty, new plugs in it.

I have owned the bike for three years, it always ran toward the warm side. But, nothing like this. I'm hoping for a better answer Monday. If not.

Have a farrrang retired bike mechanic that will take a look at it next week. Maybe I won't have to use the mail. You know guys I might have walked away from this mess. But, I know what it's like when it's right. I will never find a bike that fits me like this one does. When it's right it's like a phantom on steriods. What we are dealing wiht is very confusing for one simple reason the first numb nuts would never say what he messed up on. You would get no further asking the second one.

If it were knocking I would walk away and get a 900. I know this is something simple and eventually we will find it.

You guys have been a lot of help especially explaining things in language I can understand.

Thanks

[dave_boo]

Ya that one was bad terminlogy. They are not firing properly would be more accurate. Yep no mechaninic that's a fact

It acts like it's running on half power. Shakes like hell. You can feel the exhaust on both tail pipes. I'm picking up more here then I ever could from the shop manual.

I willing to bet your right on the ground wire. Spark plug wires a definte possibilty, new plugs in it.

I have owned the bike for three years, it always ran toward the warm side. But, nothing like this. I'm hoping for a better answer Monday. If not.

Have a farrrang retired bike mechanic that will take a look at it next week. Maybe I won't have to use the mail. You know guys I might have walked away from this mess. But, I know what it's like when it's right. I will never find a bike that fits me like this one does. When it's right it's like a phantom on steriods. What we are dealing wiht is very confusing for one simple reason the first numb nuts would never say what he messed up on. You would get no further asking the second one.

If it were knocking I would walk away and get a 900. I know this is something simple and eventually we will find it.

You guys have been a lot of help especially explaining things in language I can understand.

Thanks

Since I am working under the assumption that the guy you took it to was not the best in the business, could you do a couple of quick visual tests?

a) Check the mounting bolts. If it is something as simple as a missing mounting bolt, broken mounting bolt, or decayed rubber it will be fairly easy to find out quickly and would explain the shaking (unless your bike has taken up religion).

Check the sensors. You state you have a shop manual. If you have it in PDF form it should be easy to search for the two sensors in it. Once found, locate them on your bike. Are they connected? Trace their wires back as far as possible and make sure there are no breaks in them.

c) You state it feels like it's running at 1/2 power. Does that mean you took it for a spin and the get-up-and-go wasn't there? Was there a sputtering or simply no guts? With this new information I don't want to recommend you to ride it too far as IF your timing is off, there could be a lot of damage done to the engine running it. However, if you can share exactly what it felt like when you rode it that would help us determine a possible problem.

d) A variation of sriracha's advice. Start up the engine and quickly feel both heads (i.e. before they get hot and you burn yourself). Does one feel like it may be vibrating more than the other? If so the timing could be off on that cylinder. You can also actually use a cardboard centre of a roll of paper towels as an impromptu stethoscope to see if one is making odd sounds the other isn't. Another quick and dirty test (although if people laugh at you it's not my fault) is to get one of those children's pinwheels and see if one pipe makes it spin faster than the other pipe. If one of those pipes is not going as fast there's a good bet your timing is off or you have bad rings. This works off the principle that if there's no leakage and each combustion is working properly than both cylinders should be moving the exhaust with the same force.

You state that there's no audible knocking sound which is good. If your timing is out, it's not by much. If you could tell us more-even things that may not seem important (and don't worry about the correct terminology)-it would be a big help.

[floridaguy]

Ok, this is driving me crazy, I want to see the darn thing running properly! OP can you get a video up on Youtube? Even if you just use a camera phone and upload that, bad quality or not, it would help us alot to hear it runing. Walk around it and let us hear the exhaust pipes, put it close to the cylinders so we can hear those. Rev it a few times.

[ray23]

Ok, this is driving me crazy, I want to see the darn thing running properly! OP can you get a video up on Youtube? Even if you just use a camera phone and upload that, bad quality or not, it would help us alot to hear it runing. Walk around it and let us hear the exhaust pipes, put it close to the cylinders so we can hear those. Rev it a few times.

Can't do you tube driving me nuts as well.

It feels like the engine is missing

Unlike the last mechanic I won't run it up to 120 not hardly the way to break in a new engine even when everything is perfect.

I should have better information tomorrow, I will post how things are going.

[ray23]

Ok the update Mechanic says nothing wrong with it. An few other riders who seen it now say the same thing.

The problem is they don't know what it was like before I do.

Ok did the water test got free flow.

Checked the coils they were OK.

Didn't have the right stuff to check rectifier. It is charging, That being said can it being off a bit cause the bike, to be off a bit?

I may have found the heatong problem. I put an oil coller on it years ago. Some jerk stepped on it, bent the fins no air can flow throuhg it. I'm not real sure there is oil flowing through it at all.

What we are talking about here is Minute, like chasing a ghost

I will tinker with the oil cooler and see if oil is actually flowing through it.

Still haven't found the engine ground wire.

[ray23]

Got the valves adjusted, that cooled it back down to the range I'm used to with it.

Did a second oil cahnge since it had ran so hot, used synthetic oil.

Finally found somthing on the net about the engine ground wire from the starter to the negative poll on the battery. It was there, as well as a mountian of tape. So I ran a new one and just left the other one on as well. That really smoothed it out. Great in the pwer range not a mis to be found. Idles like a sportster.

I'm still conviennced the timing is off a bit. But, not much I thhnk the oky way I will get that checked is to buy new timing chains an let them start new. That was done less then 20K ago. So I have to think about that one.

Trying to find a carb rebuild kit.

Not much left to tinker with now.

Whan I get some KLms on it, I will photo the plugs and post it.

yuo guys have been a lot of help

Thanks

[ray23]

I started the break in rides today, once I got the other things done I was comfortable with taken it out. Ran perfect on 5th gear 80 to 130 changing rpms back and forth. Still missing at low rpm's.

I think I found the problem a bad connector on the rear spark plug Very loose and the spark is not getting to the plug as it should. Turn it upside down and it falls right off.

The front plug wires is not like that at all.

My guess is it happened with the first mechanic, it is r4eal bear to get that rear plug wire on and off. Got lots of spark going to it, it just getting to the plug prpperly.

I'll take and get it fixed tomorrow and put it back together keep you fingers crossed for me

[ray23]

Not the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand at all, why an engine can run the same way with both plugs attached. Then take off the rear plug runs the same. Put the rear one back on and take off the front one and it still runs the same a when both plugs are attached?

No mis at 110 but a mis at low rpm's

[dave_boo]

Not the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand at all, why an engine can run the same way with both plugs attached. Then take off the rear plug runs the same. Put the rear one back on and take off the front one and it still runs the same a when both plugs are attached?

No mis at 110 but a mis at low rpm's

I think you may be on the right track with the carb rebuild; sounds like you sorted out the electrical issues which would have been more of a problem at higher RPMs. Keep us appraised.

[Richard-BKK]

Do you have a Service Manual of the 1995 Kawasaki VN800?

[ray23]

Yep I have one. But, nothing gives me a clue as to this problem. Been tracing things back on the electric system. I need to get IC Ignitors checked. Want to check the plugs but, one of the mechanics lost a the plug wrench. Takes a special one to get to the plugs on this puppy. I will buy a tool kit for it, then take it out everytime I take to a mechanic $106.00 plus shipping and import tax.

Bike bandit has the carb parts but they don't come in a kit I have no idea what to order?

A carbuator is five hundred dollars and change

Tried Red Baron today but it's a day off. I tried working with bike Doctor on a rectifier, they didn't know what it was, The qouted me 10,000 baht. It's $64.00 part. Must have been my luck the guy I talked to spoke english. But, really had a crappy attitude. I'm sure not everyone is like that but that is what I got. Big difference when your standing in their shop and trying to do it over the phone.

I've been trying to hook up with a parts supplier in Japan no luck there, so far.

I'm putting back together now and will swing by a shop that is pretty good at sourcing parts, tomorrow.

I would walk away from this but I know whatever it is it's minor.

[Richard-BKK]

The carburetors are 2x Keihin CV36, what parts do you need, the carburetor was (maybe still is) made in Thailand. So maybe I can help you with some parts... The Keihin CV36, was used on a good amount of motorcycles mid-80s until mid-90s so if you search for it on internet you get a good amount of tips, tricks and maybe one has some helpful information...

[ray23]

The carburetors are 2x Keihin CV36, what parts do you need, the carburetor was (maybe still is) made in Thailand. So maybe I can help you with some parts... The Keihin CV36, was used on a good amount of motorcycles mid-80s until mid-90s so if you search for it on internet you get a good amount of tips, tricks and maybe one has some helpful information...

Richard the 95 Kawaskai Vulcan 800 CC only has one carb. not sure what the brand is. I will try to check that in the manual. Not being a mechanic no idea waht is needed. I do know that gasohiol was used in the bike before I bought it. I would assume that will effect the parts I need. The last mechanic supposedly cleaned it. But, I'm finding out that doesn't really mean much around here

Any help is really appreciated

[Richard-BKK]

What part do you need?

This is the section of the VN800 "Generator"

[ray23]

What part do you need?

This is the section of the VN800 "Generator"

Sorry Richard trying to find the carburator rebuild kit.

I know new jets but other then that I don't know what to order.

[Richard-BKK]

Okay will post the picture of the carburator section of the parts manual later...

[Richard-BKK]

Okay will post the picture of the carburator section of the parts manual later...

As promised the Carburetor page of the VN800 parts catalog, specify the part numbers and I will provide you with Kawasaki part numbers and if lucky Keihin part numbers... (and price)...

Edited June 20, 2012 by Richard-BKK

[ray23]

Richard I really appreciate that. Herew is the problem I will be ordering parts for a mehcanic to do this. I jabe never even seen a carb rebuild so I have no idea what parts to order.

Having the manual myself I will try to sit down with the mechanic I use and then give you the parts numbers. I beleive the diagram is from the shop manual and I have that.

Thanks

Edited June 21, 2012 by ray23

[ray23]

Give the man a cigar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The carburator is a Keihin CVK 36

[ray23]

Richard with the additional information you provided I wa able to loace several Keihin kits the closet I found was a 38. Nothing on the CVK36.

If I were to copy what is in the 38 kit would I be close in ordering the right thing. Jets seemed to be seperate.

[Richard-BKK]

He Ray,

If you can point out the numbers on the Kawasaki VN800 Carburetor schema, I can provide you with the original part numbers so you can order them from any online source or even Keihin Thailand (or I can maybe provide them for you).

Also I can provide you with alternative part numbers, as the Keihin CVK36 carburetor is also used on several other motorcycles. For example the 'older' Triumph Bonneville was also equipped with a Keihin CVK36...

[ray23]

He Ray,

If you can point out the numbers on the Kawasaki VN800 Carburetor schema, I can provide you with the original part numbers so you can order them from any online source or even Keihin Thailand (or I can maybe provide them for you).

Also I can provide you with alternative part numbers, as the Keihin CVK36 carburetor is also used on several other motorcycles. For example the 'older' Triumph Bonneville was also equipped with a Keihin CVK36...

I'm working on it Richard all the better if we can find them in Thailand. Been sick today sit up a meeting with a friend who is a machinist from America. We will go over the parts and I will provide them to you

I appreciate your help,

Edited June 21, 2012 by ray23

[Richard-BKK]

If you need needles/jets, you have to look at the 4-digit code stamped or engraved on the shaft on your current needles (also check if they also the same).

The 4-digit code looks something like NAGB, NBAD, NBZT, or NBZY...

1st digit "N" = OEM identifier

2nd digit = taper profile

3rd digit = length

4th digit = diameter