Americans: Major Fbar News, E-Filing Now Possible And Set To Become Required In 2013

[JimGant]

I was simply identifying a relatively safe method of obtaining an annual 6% to 7% return on investment income. No "ifs" involved.

Wow. No "Ifs" involved? Do you understand risk, as measured by Beta? How did your recommended stocks do in 2008? Their Betas indicate -- if similar to 2008 -- that they also went south. Talk about the big "IF".......

I've got all the equities I need in my portfolio -- probably too many, as I actually need to expose myself to fewer equities than the average bear, because my pensions are indexed to inflation. At this juncture in life, I just need, mainly, to concentrate on preservation of principal. So, lemme see -- mattress, Treasuries, CDs, Thai fixed account. Duh..

People who keep 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank account are NOT getting that! . . . end of story.

Not quite, as they're not getting the risk of equities either.

Some of us don't need the risk involved with higher returns. But, we still can keep an open mind about comparing risk free options. Right now, the Thai option looks to be just fine for those of us comfortably into retirement, with a more than adequate portfolio. Just glad I'm not still involved in the risk/reward scenario in order to reach my retirement goals.

But, for those who are, your Dividend Champions is a fine recommendation.

My main concern is -- my nieces and nephews will be getting too much of my estate. Anyone know how much a Z4 costs in Thailand?

[el jefe]

I've got too much of my net worth already invested in high dividend stocks. But I understand the risks.

As everyone else has pointed out, your risk assessment may be flawed, and not just by your beta calculations. You've already factored in that Romney will win the election. If so, that's fine. If Obama wins, there is a high likelihood of tax rates on dividends going back to what they were -- the same as on ordinary income. If that were to happen, REIT's and Muni's would get a boost.

6% return "at no real risk of loss" doesn't exist.

[el jefe]

To do the Form TD F 90-22. (FBAR) with Adobe Reader and print it out took me about 15 minutes or less and I have 2 foreign accounts. It's a one page form unless you have more than about 10 accounts, then you go to page two. I did have the address info on the accounts from 2010 already so that saved me a bit.

All that being said, I think it's a giant waste of time and money. Government bureaucracy gone wild in my view. All Jing's comments are true I believe.

I keep reading comments like this, some of them blaming Bush for the changes linking FBAR to Homeland Security, but the Government bureaucracy gone wild is nothing new. The requirement to file has been around for a long time. I've been filing FBAR's for over 25 years but I believe it originated in the early 1970's. Government went wild long ago.

Threads on TV about FBAR are as repetitive and easy to time as the ones about the smoke and burning in the north.

[mojaco]

From internet this attorney says the $10,000 is if the total of all accounts in any one month is exceeded. Following is his statement

"Dana Whitney AtchleyAnswered 15 days ago.Attorney licensed in NY.The FBAR requires that you add together the balances for all of your foreign accounts, accounts you own as well as accounts you have authority over, for each month, to determine whether or not the total aggregate sum of those balances exceeds $10,000. If the total sum exceeds $10,000 for just one month in a given year, then you are required to file the FBAR form, Form TD F 90-22.1, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts, for that year."

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

[Sateev]

From internet this attorney says the $10,000 is if the total of all accounts in any one month is exceeded. Following is his statement

"Dana Whitney AtchleyAnswered 15 days ago.Attorney licensed in NY.The FBAR requires that you add together the balances for all of your foreign accounts, accounts you own as well as accounts you have authority over, for each month, to determine whether or not the total aggregate sum of those balances exceeds $10,000. If the total sum exceeds $10,000 for just one month in a given year, then you are required to file the FBAR form, Form TD F 90-22.1, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts, for that year."

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

So far as I can tell, the language says "at any time". Choosing a month is as valid as choosing a day, or even a millisecond, to take the premise to the absurd.

And if I had a baht for every dimestore attorney who expressed a totally wrong opinion, I'd invest it in SurfBoy's dividend-paying stocks, and live a life that's free and easy...

[vagabond48]

Can we get back on track, after all this was about the process of efiling the FBAR. How about starting another thread to discuss the pros and cons of FBAR?

Has anyone tried submitting the FBAR form? The site doesn't appear to be very user friendly.

After I got my user id using Firefox 12, I was unable to get a temp password. After many attempts on FF, I had to use IE to get one. After getting my temp password, I was again able to use Firefox to get into this website.

I am hoping someone can give a summary of what to do to submit the form.

Thanks

Edited June 10, 2012 by vagabond48

[Suradit69]

Although I sent a paper FBAR for 2011, I can't know if they got it as I refuse to pay for tracking (used regular mail). So I just filed an electronic version as well, thank you very much Jing Thing. The system is NOT user friendly. It must have taken me over two hours just to go through all the security overkill bullshit. Seems like the feds make a phonomenal effort to protect my privacy, when the only folks I really wish I could protect it from is THEM. What an irony!

I also do not use Adobe Reader, and have not used it for years, as I have a much better program. However, the federal e-filing system forces you to use the Adobe product, so I had to download and install that as well.

Good luck to all my compatriots. Ain't it great to be American! I got a lot of practice bending over and holding my ankles as a kid practicing for a nuclear attack back in the 50's. Jesus, I never thought it would come to this. I'd rather have the Red Scare than this never-ending proctology exam by means of Uncle Sam's very long member.

I just use TurboTax each year (yes, I agree it's another needless expense, but since it downloads investment account info etc, it is labor saving) and I mindlessly insert all the numbers it asks for and answer all its questions and print out the results, including the US Treasury form reporting bank acccounts, which TurboTax reminds me I need to fill out, and I send it all in by registered mail (another needless expense, but the IRS assumes you are guilty until they want to assume otherwise).

Still, as of 2012, I had to mail it in because e-filing wasn't available to people outside the US at least via TurboTax.

Before TurboTax could be downloaded, I used to have friends mail me the TurboTax cd because it was illegal for anyone selling it to mail it overseas. Apparently there was a serious threat of al qaeda filling out a 1040 and mailing it in.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Suradit69

[spidermike007]

I'm with you, except, the problem is, those of us that must have 400,000 baht banked for two months to get the marriage extension, or 800,000 for retirement, are fuc_ked.

Fuc_ed how? This is merely a reporting requirement, not a tax form filing. Yeah, that you might have interest earnings on this 400/800k baht of bank account money might become obvious to the Feds. So just declare this interest on your 1040. Christ, what's so hard about being in accord with our tax laws?

You know what, Mr. Apologist for the US Government, it's just too much, that's what. Have you ever heard of the Fifth Amendment? Let's say you did NOT pay all your taxes. This form erquires you to be a witness against youself (rat yourself out). Where does it all end?

I file my 1040's, declare all my income and pay all my taxes. But now, that's not enough. Lucky for me, I read about the FBAR on here a few years ago and have been filing it. But I have a few friends here who knew nothing about it until last year. THEY are fuc_ked. There was an amnesty last year that included a penalty free window for "innocent" FBAR non-filers that had declared all their income and paid all their taxes. But the window closed. Now Treasury has extended the "amnesty" (no criminal prosecution for those who turn themselves in) but the window for innocent non-filers was not reopened. Apparently the penalty for the innocent non-filers is 25% of the highest balance over eight years. For somebody who keeps 400,000 baht in the bank, that comes to 100,000 baht or about $12,698 at current exchange rates. That means my friend who has declared every penny he has earned and paid every penny of tax, but did not know about the FBAR reporting requirment is now faced with the prospect of paying a $12,698 penalty! That's just plain fuc_king wrong.

If it were not for ThaiVisa, I would not know about the FBAR. My tax preparer sends me my tax return every year to review it for accuracy. If I looked closely I would see the box on Schedule B for reporting foreign bank accounts. Then I could download the Form 1040 instruction book and read about the FBAR requirement (I get a PDF vesion of the return from my preparer). But come on, who does all that in practice. When I get my 42 page tax return from my CPA to review for accuracy, I always send it back with a note that says, "Come on, Marge, I don't understand a bit of this; that's why I hire you." She is a very good CPA, but I am her only expat client, so she doesn't ordinarily deal with expat issues; I am usually the one to bring them up to her. For example, she would reasonably assume most of my assets were in the US becasue she knows nothing about the bank balance requirements to maintain certain visas here. It is easy for the FBAR to have innocently fallen through the cracks. I am a retired lawyer, and this stuff confuses me. It's just gotten out of hand. The average schmuck doesn't stand a chance.

It is a draconian measure, introduced by a liberal (actually more conservative, and further to the right than tiny george ever was) "leader". I believe that it is not about taxes, but something far more heinous, and potentially fascist, in it's nature. Read into this as you will. But, the intentions are far from noble.

[Sateev]

I keep reading comments like this, some of them blaming Bush for the changes linking FBAR to Homeland Security, but the Government bureaucracy gone wild is nothing new. The requirement to file has been around for a long time. I've been filing FBAR's for over 25 years but I believe it originated in the early 1970's. Government went wild long ago.

Threads on TV about FBAR are as repetitive and easy to time as the ones about the smoke and burning in the north.

I'm the one blaming Bush, not for the FBAR per se, but for the changes to it that provide for harsh penalties for non-willful violations (i.e., oversight or misinterpretation of the vague instructions), as well as the Patriot Act, which extended the purpose of FBAR from tax collecting to investigation of money laundering and 'terrorist' funding.

Things are likely to change in the near future, though, for a

variety of reasons. Importantly, Congress amended the law in

late 2004, introducing new penalties for non-willful FBAR

violations and more stringent penalties for willful violations. To

implement this strengthened law, the U.S. Treasury Department

delegated full investigatory and enforcement authority to the

IRS. Now, this agency has in its arsenal several formidable

weapons, including the power to take “any action reasonably

necessary” to enforce FBAR compliance. Enforcement activities

are also certain to rise because of the Patriot Act. This

controversial legislation modified the relevant provisions to

expressly state that the FBAR is vital to the U.S. government not

only in carrying out criminal and tax investigations, but also in

conducting intelligence activities to protect against international

terrorism. Nowadays, once something has been labeled as crucial

to the ubiquitous “war on terror,” there seem to be few (if any)

limits on governmental efforts.

COPYRIGHT © 2006 HOUSTON BUSINESS AND TAX JOURNAL. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED [2006]

The idea that anything deemed "crucial to the ubiquitous "war on terror"" gives unlimited power to the US government is pathological.

I fart in their general direction.

[Sateev]

It is a draconian measure, introduced by a liberal (actually more conservative, and further to the right than tiny george ever was) "leader". I believe that it is not about taxes, but something far more heinous, and potentially fascist, in it's nature. Read into this as you will. But, the intentions are far from noble.

What leader was that?

[Jingthing]

From internet this attorney says the $10,000 is if the total of all accounts in any one month is exceeded. Following is his statement

"Dana Whitney AtchleyAnswered 15 days ago.Attorney licensed in NY.The FBAR requires that you add together the balances for all of your foreign accounts, accounts you own as well as accounts you have authority over, for each month, to determine whether or not the total aggregate sum of those balances exceeds $10,000. If the total sum exceeds $10,000 for just one month in a given year, then you are required to file the FBAR form, Form TD F 90-22.1, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts, for that year."

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

You found a better link than I did showing the requirement to file threshold is indeed about the 10K aggregate "same time" but they assume "same time" would typically be determined by looking at MONTHLY STATEMENTS. So that I believe is where the "same month" directions comes into play. Personally, I don't get monthly statements on my Thai bank accounts so if you don't have monthly statements you need to look at the actual precise amounts in the accounts. I think for the vast majority of us however, we are either clearly over the 10K need to file threshold, or we are not. Edited June 10, 2012 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Although I sent a paper FBAR for 2011, I can't know if they got it as I refuse to pay for tracking (used regular mail). So I just filed an electronic version as well, thank you very much Jing Thing. The system is NOT user friendly. It must have taken me over two hours just to go through all the security overkill bullshit. Seems like the feds make a phonomenal effort to protect my privacy, when the only folks I really wish I could protect it from is THEM. What an irony!

I also do not use Adobe Reader, and have not used it for years, as I have a much better program. However, the federal e-filing system forces you to use the Adobe product, so I had to download and install that as well.

Good luck to all my compatriots. Ain't it great to be American! I got a lot of practice bending over and holding my ankles as a kid practicing for a nuclear attack back in the 50's. Jesus, I never thought it would come to this. I'd rather have the Red Scare than this never-ending proctology exam by means of Uncle Sam's very long member.

I just use TurboTax each year (yes, I agree it's another needless expense, but since it downloads investment account info etc, it is labor saving) and I mindlessly insert all the numbers it asks for and answer all its questions and print out the results, including the US Treasury form reporting bank acccounts, which TurboTax reminds me I need to fill out, and I send it all in by registered mail (another needless expense, but the IRS assumes you are guilty until they want to assume otherwise).

Still, as of 2012, I had to mail it in because e-filing wasn't available to people outside the US at least via TurboTax.

Before TurboTax could be downloaded, I used to have friends mail me the TurboTax cd because it was illegal for anyone selling it to mail it overseas. Apparently there was a serious threat of al qaeda filling out a 1040 and mailing it in.

Taxact (see their web site) allows for e-filing IRS and state tax forms using a foreign address. Not FBAR of course. Edited June 10, 2012 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Can we get back on track, after all this was about the process of efiling the FBAR. How about starting another thread to discuss the pros and cons of FBAR?

Has anyone tried submitting the FBAR form? The site doesn't appear to be very user friendly.

After I got my user id using Firefox 12, I was unable to get a temp password. After many attempts on FF, I had to use IE to get one. After getting my temp password, I was again able to use Firefox to get into this website.

I am hoping someone can give a summary of what to do to submit the form.

Thanks

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, please do keep on topic here about the rather big news about e-filing of FBAR and at least related to FBAR. I really do consider detailed investment advice to be really off topic here.

[Sateev]

For an excellent, and long, discussion of the history of the FBAR, its current (2006!) state of implementation, and potential weaknesses, see http://www.hbtlj.org/v07p1/v07p1_sheppard.pdf .

Despite that is's six years old, the discussion is fairly deep, and well-developed. It only briefly addresses the timing of the aggregate amount which triggers the need to report, but brings many other issues to light. Note that the IRS carried out a well-publicized PR campaign to encourage compliance, but has filed VERY few cases, and assessed very few civil penalties. The document has many examples of very convoluted ways in which a taxpayer might unknowingly violate the law, like inheriting from a European relative, etc.

Of particular interest is the fact that the specifics of the FBAR requirements are NOT codified in law; rather, they are only stated in the instructions to the form, which is subject to revision at any time by the IRS, i.e., they can change the requirements at any time, without any legislative oversight.

File it if you think you must, and err on the side of caution.

[el jefe]

Can we get back on track, after all this was about the process of efiling the FBAR. How about starting another thread to discuss the pros and cons of FBAR?

Has anyone tried submitting the FBAR form? The site doesn't appear to be very user friendly.

After I got my user id using Firefox 12, I was unable to get a temp password. After many attempts on FF, I had to use IE to get one. After getting my temp password, I was again able to use Firefox to get into this website.

I am hoping someone can give a summary of what to do to submit the form.

Thanks

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, please do keep on topic here about the rather big news about e-filing of FBAR and at least related to FBAR. I really do consider detailed investment advice to be really off topic here.

Big news?????

There are no calculations involved. You can print the form, fill it in by hand, and take it to the post office in less time than it takes to read this thread. That doesn't include the time it takes to figure out if your tax program and your computer are configured to accept e-filing.

E-file was not created to help the taxpayer in any way. It is solely to help the govt save time and money.

[taxout]

A poster above said they'd filed electronically to make sure their FBAR was received. In fact, you can call the Feds to verify receipt:

"Ninety days after the date of filing, the filer can request verification that the FBAR was received. An FBAR filing verification request may be made by calling 866-270-0733 and selecting option 1. Up to five documents may be verified over the phone. There is no fee for this verification."

http://bsaefiling.fi...se_BSA_001.html

(As to the difficulties of registering for e-filing, when you consider the problems someone could make for you by filing a false FBAR, I think you'll appreciate the difficuties a bit more.)

Edited June 10, 2012 by taxout

[Jingthing]

Can we get back on track, after all this was about the process of efiling the FBAR. How about starting another thread to discuss the pros and cons of FBAR?

Has anyone tried submitting the FBAR form? The site doesn't appear to be very user friendly.

After I got my user id using Firefox 12, I was unable to get a temp password. After many attempts on FF, I had to use IE to get one. After getting my temp password, I was again able to use Firefox to get into this website.

I am hoping someone can give a summary of what to do to submit the form.

Thanks

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, please do keep on topic here about the rather big news about e-filing of FBAR and at least related to FBAR. I really do consider detailed investment advice to be really off topic here.

Big news?????

There are no calculations involved. You can print the form, fill it in by hand, and take it to the post office in less time than it takes to read this thread. That doesn't include the time it takes to figure out if your tax program and your computer are configured to accept e-filing.

E-file was not created to help the taxpayer in any way. It is solely to help the govt save time and money.

Yes, it is BIG news that after years of FBAR being required for some of us to file, and the only option was mailing a paper form, that NOW there is the option to e-file as well. It will be BIGGER news if those required to file FBAR are required to e-file with no option to mail the paper form, as does appear is going to happen fairly soon in the future.

This in the context of the FBAR form being due to arrive on the due date, and postmarks being irrelevant. So e-filing means you can file at the last day. You can't mail the last day and not be late.

Of course it isn't big news like a major tsunami would be big news. It is big news relative to the general topic of: FBAR FILING.

FBAR e-filing has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with e-filing IRS or state income tax forms. This is a totally separate issue.

I don't appreciate this topic being mocked. It is important to a lot of us. If you read the potential penalties for not filing when you are required to file, including potential PRISON TERMS -- this is no joke.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Jingthing

[tutsiwarrior]

relax, JT...I file my FBAR when required but I love to see the system mocked because it is risible, hypocritical and deserves what it gets in terms of mocking arrangements...our big, bad country coming after us little guys to finance their economic foibles and imperialist adventurism...fcukem...

but good to be reminded that there is a filing requirement so that hassles can be avoided and thanks to you for that...

Edited June 10, 2012 by tutsiwarrior

[Jingthing]

relax, JT...I file my FBAR when required but I love to see the system mocked because it is risible, hypocritical and deserves what it gets in terms of mocking arrangements...our big, bad country coming after us little guys to finance their economic foibles and imperialist adventurism...fcukem...

but good to know that there is a filing requirement so that hassles can be avoided and thanks to you for that...

I HATE this whole FBAR system and no problem with whining about it. They are definitely treating ALL of us as potential criminals just for having foreign accounts. Also there is the huge flaw of when you do need to report, having to report the highest balance of the year, obviously often falsely giving the impression that we have more foreign assets than we actually do, even DOUBLE if it was a simple transfer between foreign accounts.

But for most of us, filing when required is the most sensible course of action. They truly do have us by the short hairs, and it's getting worse. Only a few of us are seriously interested in changing citizenship, so ...

Edited June 10, 2012 by Jingthing

[vagabond48]

Can we get back on track, after all this was about the process of efiling the FBAR. How about starting another thread to discuss the pros and cons of FBAR?

Has anyone tried submitting the FBAR form? The site doesn't appear to be very user friendly.

After I got my user id using Firefox 12, I was unable to get a temp password. After many attempts on FF, I had to use IE to get one. After getting my temp password, I was again able to use Firefox to get into this website.

I am hoping someone can give a summary of what to do to submit the form.

Thanks

Big news?????

There are no calculations involved. You can print the form, fill it in by hand, and take it to the post office in less time than it takes to read this thread. That doesn't include the time it takes to figure out if your tax program and your computer are configured to accept e-filing.

E-file was not created to help the taxpayer in any way. It is solely to help the govt save time and money.

I don't care if efiling makes it easier for the gov't as long as it is easier for me.

Yes, I use a tax program, I efile my 1040 and I even use the IRS EFT to pay my taxes. I like doing it the (E)asy way.

Thanks for taking the time NOT to answer my question.

Edited June 10, 2012 by vagabond48

[wannascuba]

Need help submitting the form.

I opened the fill-able PDF and entered my banking info, validated the form, signed it with my secure PIN. But when I click on the "SUBMIT" button I get this message:

"You must first log into the BSA E -Filing application in order to submit this form. Once logged in, you may re-open this form and submit".

I was logged into the website. Any ideas on what I am missing here?

Thanks,

[meand]

I am kind of a paranoid delusionist, but i'd send that sucker in via the mail 100%, or an internet cafe if possible.

[wannascuba]

I am with you "meand", however, my Government already has more info. on me than my own Mother due to my service. But that's the price I pay, no qualms about it. So, I will do my best to comply with the laws and hope for the best.

From what I understand the Efile will soon be mandatory for this FBAR form, no more paper file from what I understand.

So, anyone have any tips on what I am doing wrong trying to "submit".

Thanks,

[wannascuba]

vegabond48,

Working on the same thing as you, will provide a summary once I get it to go though successfully. If I get it to go though

edit; spelling

Edited June 10, 2012 by wannascuba

[MrRealDeal]

I don't feel like I am being treated like a criminal for being required to report ......... I feel like the criminals made it so I am required to report , and if it helps catch prople who don't pay their taxes GOOD .......... And will you stop with the double nonsense ...... 1 day you have 10100 in one bank the next day you transfer , You report the 10,100 in the bank "you have an intrest in " ..... not 20200 that you never had in a bank at one time in the first place ..... geeeze man get real.

And to the Laywer that said it was hard for him to figure out how to fill out the form ........ it's not that your daft , it's that you are a lair

People need to stop freaking out over a SIMPLE form that takes about 3 min if you have your bankbook\s handy , is it really that hard to find your highest balance ? Is it really that hard to write it down ? Is their some complex part you fail to understand ? LOL ...... Just like all Treasury forms if you made a mistake file an amended one and all is forgiven. Yes their is a box for "amended"

Most of you would cry just as loud if they were not trying to catch tax cheats , in order to catch tax cheats a form like this a needed , get over yourselves people.

The FBAR does have something to do with the IRS and the 1040 ..... On the 1040 you need to put that you have a forein bank account and the intrest from it , if it's over 5-10 dollars (I forget which) that requires the IRS to alert Treasury , and it mentions it on the 1040 that you might need to file it. So it's not entirely unrelated , The IRS works for Treasury which is why it's not unrelated.

Edited June 10, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[JimGant]

BTW, the form was revised for this year. What is different/new about the most recent form/requirements?

The Treasury Department issued a new FBAR in January 2012. This is the third revision of the form in less than one year.

The instructions to the FBAR (TD F 90-22.1, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts) were substantially revised in March 2011. In November 2011, according to Willem Perez, there were two changes to the instructions (relating to the estimated time to complete the form and relating to amended forms).

The latest version of the form appears to only change who to contact if you have questions (page 7). The old form (from two months ago) indicated that questions should be directed to the Detroit Computing Center Hotline at an 800 number. Now the form specifies to call 866-270-0733 number for domestic callers and 313-234-6146 for international callers.

The new instructions also include an email address for questions: [email protected]. With taxpayers so concerned about FBAR penalties, providing an email address for questions is a step in the right direction.

Posted on January 20, 2012 in FBAR | Permalink

And, from the heading of the latest form:

TD F 90-22.1

(Rev. January 2012)

Department of the Treasury

Do not use previous editions of

this form

But Sir, the only change was a phone number in the instructions........and those don't even get mailed in.....

We are the Government. The instructions say do not use previous editions of this form. Obey, or you will be toast. We have penalties for those who disregard our "do nots."

And from the penalty warnings (ok, I slightly modified it):

The penalty for willful failure to file an FBAR, using the latest revision, is the higher of $100,000 or fifty percent of the highest total account balance, imposed annually.

Ok, so you might be fined "fifty percent of the highest total account balance."

But Sir, would the "highest total account balance" be the snapshot figure I used to determine whether or not I needed to file a FBAR, which at its highest, on Feb 3, was $10,001? Or would that include the sum of the max amounts I had to list on the form for the 11 accounts that were closed, as the proceeds were used to open the next account, and which totals $120,012?

Don't get smart with me, Sonny, Of course its the $10,001 max net worth -- do you think we're fools?

Sorry, Sir. Oh, how many more revisions do you think there will be before you get this right?

Hard to say, Sonny. When you don't know exactly what it is you're trying to identify, it's mighty hard to articulate the correct instructions.

[JimGant]

. And will you stop with the double nonsense ...... 1 day you have 10100 in one bank the next day you transfer , You report the 10,100 in the bank "you have an intrest in " ..... not 20200 that you never had in a bank at one time in the first place ..... geeeze man get real.

Unfortunately, you're wrong. An earlier post by JT correctly identifies the difference between the "snapshot" that determines the requirement to file a FBAR -- and the fact that they then ask for each and every account you had for the year, and the max amount, even if all but one are now closed, and that the proceeds from account one were used to open account two, etc. I really don't think this is what they want, but they just can't figure out how to correctly revise the form (stay tuned).

I get around this by just filling-in one block -- indicating it is my internet bank account. Included in this one block amount is the aggregate of the five accounts encompassed under my internet account. It is thus a snapshot, and no double accounting can occur. Nothing even gray about this -- the FBAR instructions allow for "commingling" with account reporting. Saves time and ink.

However, the only number I really worry about getting right -- is my social security number.

[el jefe]

I don't feel like I am being treated like a criminal for being required to report ......... I feel like the criminals made it so I am required to report , and if it helps catch prople who don't pay their taxes GOOD .......... And will you stop with the double nonsense ...... 1 day you have 10100 in one bank the next day you transfer , You report the 10,100 in the bank "you have an intrest in " ..... not 20200 that you never had in a bank at one time in the first place ..... geeeze man get real.

And to the Laywer that said it was hard for him to figure out how to fill out the form ........ it's not that your daft , it's that you are a lair

People need to stop freaking out over a SIMPLE form that takes about 3 min if you have your bankbook\s handy , is it really that hard to find your highest balance ? Is it really that hard to write it down ? Is their some complex part you fail to understand ? LOL ...... Just like all Treasury forms if you made a mistake file an amended one and all is forgiven. Yes their is a box for "amended"

Most of you would cry just as loud if they were not trying to catch tax cheats , in order to catch tax cheats a form like this a needed , get over yourselves people.

The FBAR does have something to do with the IRS and the 1040 ..... On the 1040 you need to put that you have a forein bank account and the intrest from it , if it's over 5-10 dollars (I forget which) that requires the IRS to alert Treasury , and it mentions it on the 1040 that you might need to file it. So it's not entirely unrelated , The IRS works for Treasury which is why it's not unrelated.

Exactly. Not only is it a "SIMPLE form that takes about 3 min if you have your bankbook\s handy", but WHY are people waiting til mid-June to file it??? The information was fully available on January 1. As a CPA, I've filed hundreds of FBAR forms. This year, mine and every one of my clients forms were filed by the end of March. My tax program would not let me file them electronically with their 1040's so I printed them for mailing. i wasn't about to waste time setting up accounts with other systems. I assume that the mail arrived within 90 days. That's just as valid as checking with the IRS 90 days after you efile tomorrow as "taxout" said can be done.

E-file does not mean "Easy" file, as further evidenced by this thread. I'll worry about electronically filing when the govt mandates it and fixes the system.

To answer an earlier question, I do know someone who was prosecuted in a criminal case for filing a false FRAR. I've also filed dozens of FBAR's late when 1040's were extended and I didn't have the info available. No one was ever penalized. However, I'm not suggesting that policy won't change. Yes, if you have 800k baht in a Thai account and mail the form in today and the govt doesn't receive it until July 2, they can penalize you by asking for almost half (400k baht translated in dollars at the Dec 31 exchange rate). Possible, but how likely?

I've been accused here of not answering questions. Here's my question to anyone who is panicking over this -- why did you wait til mid-June instead of filing in January?

[wannascuba]

el jefe,

I am not panicking (if you referring to me), if I cannot figure out the e file within a few days, I will just drop in the mail. I was ready to mail it about 4 or 5 days ago, but since I read about the E file I decided that would be a safer means of submitting rather than dropping in the mail from overseas. I do not consider mailing it nearly 1 month out to be waiting to the last minute, but I will beat my face for good measure anyway

Do you have any experience submitting via the BSA E file system? Edit, just re read you post and see you havent used E-file yet. If so, any info to my specific question posted a few back would be appreciated.

Thanks,

WS

Edited June 11, 2012 by wannascuba

[wannascuba]

To vegabond and anyone else interested,

I just successfully submitted online with plenty of time to spare. I even have another 19 days to amend if I need. I have a slow internet connection, so that may be part of the problem when trying to submit. Or just operator error Brief run down, assuming you already have registered on BSA and have a user name and changed your default password.

1. Log into the BSA E file website homepage.

2. On the left hand side of the homepage, look for Legacy Reports then click on FILE FBAR.

3. Then choose, open an existing form or open new form.

4. Fill in the form, validate, sign with your PIN.

4A. To get PIN click on get new PIN from the left hand pane of the homepage. To view PIN look in the Secure Messaging inbox.

5. Go back to the form and click submit. After it completes loading you will get a confirmation window. (I copied and pasted this for my records). This is where having a good internet connection is key, I think that was my initial problem, it took about 45 sec for me.

Note: Be sure the Form is opened via the websites FILE FBAR window, if you open like a regular document it will not submit, another problem I had.

Good luck, can PM me if need further help.

WS

Also, there are several PDF instruction sheets to download. I have too slow of connection on my AirCard to download so I winged it.